Grey knights Omnibus

[Jmaximum]

just finished the entire thing.

For the most part, it was a great story spanning the three books, even the blatantly Spartacus-esque story line of the third book.

Would definitely like to see what they do with the protagonist from here, as the ending seems unique for a 40K book (i.e. things do not return to business as normal).



***************************************SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS****************************************** ************************************************** *****













So I didn't really care for how the made the Grey Knights sound kind of.....whiney. They were always second guessing themselves, and worrying about their faith breaking. Seemed kind of out of character for GK's.
Secondly, for the most secretive organization in the Imperium, they sure put themselves out in front of LOTS of Imperial citizens.
Finally, in the third book, it was a vague if the lead badguy was a daemon, a human ho had reached daemonhood, a human-sized dragon, or a dragon-sized dragon. And honestly, the planet full of Khorne worshipers were WAAAY too rationale.
but, again, all in all it was a good 40K universe read.

[Animus Silvanna]

I thought showing that part of their thinking was great (referring to the whining) They have the burden of being the Ultimate UN-corruptible Soldiers for the Emperor and no one so far has broke. That is a lot of pressure to live up to, To not be the first to fall, to stand against the most corrupted organisms/power in the universe. My opinion may be a little biased :P but the fact is that is a very hard reality they live in.

[Mr.Pickelz]

To normal people, the GK's are simply Chapter 666 of the Adeptus Astartes. In other words, their just a Space Marine chapter to people who don't need to know their true identity. And Khorne does have rational people, all the gods do. It's simply not shown when the important person/thing is watching. After all, everyone is in it for themselves, and that's the motto between the different slave lord dudes. You can't backstab, plot, and indirectly kill your rivals without some sense about you. ;)

[fuzzbuket]

the whole thing about uncorriptiable -ness i thought that it was genetically in their gene seed?

also the entire books are now non-cannon thanks to ward. yay.

[Nabterayl]

the whole thing about uncorriptiable -ness i thought that it was genetically in their gene seed?

Don't believe that's ever been true. It simply happens to be the case that no Grey Knight has ever turned to Chaos. That's what makes it impressive - their record is due to training and diligence; it isn't a foregone conclusion.

I haven't read them; what conflicts with the new codex?

[fuzzbuket]

Don't believe that's ever been true. It simply happens to be the case that no Grey Knight has ever turned to Chaos. That's what makes it impressive - their record is due to training and diligence; it isn't a foregone conclusion.

I haven't read them; what conflicts with the new codex?

in the books the terminator squad uses holocaust quite a bit, and that used to be the signature thing of GKT's, sadly that got removed in the new dex :/ (and i think there are a few other things too )

[Mr.Pickelz]

This book was written off the background and such of the 3rd. Ed. codex, which gave a broad generalization of what the Grey Knights were about. This left room for the author to add his own spin on how a Justicar would think, react, and feel. He also left it open ended incase he or someone else would pick up the series.

The "Un-corruptable-ness" of Grey Knights is a combination of things. In part, it's their discipline and training as psykers; Their Aegis; the enchantments/ prayers that are inscribed on their armor (look at the shoulder pad lettering); And last but not least, Grey Knights constantly exude a "Holy'ish" aura(as in the good vs. evil motif), this would act as a competing warp entity/presence that naturally fights the warp presence of a daemon's, making the GK's hated even more by those forces. Everything about a Grey Knight stands to fight chaos (the warp) in all arenas, whether it's merely to exude a competing warp presence or a straight up melee. Alric eludes to this when facing the Fallen Titan AI, as a Grey Knight he is taught to fight daemons, and very little of anything else.

[Animus Silvanna]

I dont think that the new 5th ed codex takes away from anything already written about the Grey Knights. It showed what Grey Knights are about Fast mobile strike force aboard one Strike Cruiser. It had Strike squads and Terminators, I would assume that you could inject that paladins where not needed or available just like the purefiers aswell. The Grey Knights are usually very small in force for anything unless it is a major incursion like the first war of Armegeddon. Even there they only had the 3rd Brotherhood in its entirety which did not have paladins or purifiers. Infact the only hint to them being updated to 5th ed Grey knights was that the focus of the story was on a Grey Knight Interceptor Squad, plus some of there gear and weapons.

[Mr.Pickelz]

The biggest difference to the First war of Armegeddon was the numbers, previously, and it's in the current SW codex,the Grey Knight force that deep-struck (right in to the middle of the daemon horde) was 100 terminators lead by a Grand Master (so 101'ish actually) and only 5 or so walked away. While Ward did expand the Grey knights, he also shrunk them down a bit, bringing them in line with Codex measurements (which GK's don't adhere to) He gave them more roles to play, but in doing so had to downgrade the standard GK to make the "elites" stand out. :(

[dark messenger]

Oh so that's what happened to the Holocaust ability... I had wondered about that.
I spoke to some new GK players about that recently and all I got were blank stares and shrugs...

Curse you Ward.
Curse all ret-conning...

[Nabterayl]

Gotta be honest, I still don't see much in the way of ret-conning. The fact that GKT's can't cast Holocaust this codex doesnt't mean they can't lore-wise. It's not like the librarian powers are the only ones that GK librarians can cast, lore-wise.

As for the chapter's size ... when was that ever set down before this codex?

[Animus Silvanna]

It wasn't, in any Grey knight books they are still a conglomerate of different squads being used. I don't see this "codex chapter" organization thing. From what I viewed from the books it wasn't like they had XX number of Strike squads with Correlating XX number of Terminators and so forth and so on. In fact if I remember correctly they just took what forces they had available to them EXACTLY how Grey Knights fight. If they only had 5 Terminators and 40 purifiers, well guess what they are sending to that engagement.

[Mr.Pickelz]

Holocaust is still in the book, however it's a paladin psyker power, and it's only good if you have a small enough squad of them vs. a big squad (IE, 10+ models in the opposing squad).

[Nabterayl]

It wasn't, in any Grey knight books they are still a conglomerate of different squads being used. I don't see this "codex chapter" organization thing. From what I viewed from the books it wasn't like they had XX number of Strike squads with Correlating XX number of Terminators and so forth and so on. In fact if I remember correctly they just took what forces they had available to them EXACTLY how Grey Knights fight. If they only had 5 Terminators and 40 purifiers, well guess what they are sending to that engagement.

Well, Ward doesn't present them as a codex chapter, just a chapter with ten brotherhoods of ten squads each, at least on paper. The second (purifier) brotherhood has clearly never maintained ten squads, and very likely the first (paladin) brotherhood hasn't either. There are no reserve brotherhoods, and the "regular" brotherhoods don't have a set composition in terms of how many squads of terminators, strike PAGKs, interceptors, or purgators they maintain. They really aren't presented as a codex chapter even in Ward.

EDIT: Oops, I see I was actually agreeing with you there. Well ... anyway, I agree!

[Animus Silvanna]

Well, Ward doesn't present them as a codex chapter, just a chapter with ten brotherhoods of ten squads each, at least on paper. The second (purifier) brotherhood has clearly never maintained ten squads, and very likely the first (paladin) brotherhood hasn't either. There are no reserve brotherhoods, and the "regular" brotherhoods don't have a set composition in terms of how many squads of terminators, strike PAGKs, interceptors, or purgators they maintain. They really aren't presented as a codex chapter even in Ward.
Exactly ^^

[Jmaximum]

Wow. A lot going on here!
I never played GK's, but the book did inspire me a bit to check them out.

[Wildcard]

I am not sure the current codex does the grey knights fluffily any justice. They are great force to play, and many oppoenent has declined to play against that codex because its been commonly thought to be so over powered (not saying here if or if not, just the saying what's been up in the ether).

Take the inspiring awe that books give to any hero, and they should still be way better than normal / regular space marine in practically anything isn't showing in the books. Only thing giving them the real edge is their wargear (most notably different layout of force weapons, stormbolter, psybolts and ability to take power or terminator armor and psycannons..

None of that grey knightness is reflected onto the table top in that regard (in my opinion)

Balanced or not, if went with the fluff, your most basic grey knight should have been ws5 purifiers to start with.

Not sure how fun it would have been to play against a codex designed with that in mind tho.. But personally that codex was a letdown.. From the point of view how the fluff was turned into tabletop models /units

[Animus Silvanna]

Indeed, If I had basic troop choices as purifiers at the cost of a SS that would be just SILLY. I think Ward did do a horrible job at the fluff particularity with Draigo like holy crap dude where you high when you wrote his back story??? I'm pretty sure that after a thousand or so years of the Supreme Grandmaster being lost in and out of the warp they would have picked another by now. This just highlights that I think when it comes to writing fluff only the Black Library writers should do that, not people who write the rules and have no talent for depth in a story that makes any sense.

[Wildcard]

@Animus Silvanna: its not about the prowess of the single fighter, but its cost. And then there are some fundamental factors (armor save / stuff that kills outright) that has to be considered when adjusting the price based on statline and wargear.. I would have liked to see ws5 purifiers as the new standard for GK, albeit with a higher price.. And something else (like inquisitor stuff - since its already there- to form some lower point troop units in games where they are needed

[Animus Silvanna]

@Animus Silvanna: its not about the prowess of the single fighter, but its cost. And then there are some fundamental factors (armor save / stuff that kills outright) that has to be considered when adjusting the price based on statline and wargear.. I would have liked to see ws5 purifiers as the new standard for GK, albeit with a higher price.. And something else (like inquisitor stuff - since its already there- to form some lower point troop units in games where they are needed

Yeah i wouldnt have minded as much either. To be perfectly honest I was very sad to see the Inquisitor Storm Troopers go away. I loved the models and enjoyed having a couple squads of them on the table they just looked great and let you feel more like the Grey Knight were ELITE and few.

[rpricew]

I started my Grey Knight army because of the Omnibus and I love playing fluffy lists against Chaos, Demons & Traitor Guard.


in the books the terminator squad uses holocaust quite a bit, and that used to be the signature thing of GKT's, sadly that got removed in the new dex :/ (and i think there are a few other things too )


This was one of my favorite things about the GKs, I was so disappointed when it wasn't represented in the Codex properly. A Psychic Shooting attack @ Str 5 AP - Large Blast @ 12" is just pathetic IMO. I've never seen anybody use it.



Balanced or not, if went with the fluff, your most basic grey knight should have been ws5 purifiers to start with.


I agree, and this would work if other Marines were pointed to reflect their lower status appropriately.