Get your mitts off my pint!!!

[Mr Mystery]

I am now officially enraged

Not content with piling greater and greater tax on my pint, my local pub has now been told their quiz machine requires a gambling license.

And all this in the name of curbing 'binge drinking'. Well guess what, at £3.50 a pint, I cannot afford to binge drink. And thanks to the hours I work, including commuting time, midweek drinking is far from advisable.

It's time for me to write to my MP with a whinge, and a suggestion. Your average pub is categorically NOT part of the problem. Indeed, it is in their interest to not serve those who have had a skinful. It pisses off their other drinkers, and if sustained, drives us away. Plus, of caught they can be fined and stripped of their license.

Yet the measures being taken hit these businesses hardest. When I started drinking in the pub in question, a pint of ale was £2.50. That was 5 years ago. When I started drinking 14 years ago, a pint was around £1.80. And guess what! Binge drinking hasn't been affected.

Small pubs are clearly not part of the problem. So why not offer them a tax break? A responsive publican is a godsend. Give them a way to compete. Tax late licensed premises heavily. Make the ones creating the problem pay for the clean up!

As I said, I'm writing to my MP, and if you feel the same, I ask you to do the same.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I'm sure it isn't pubs either, surely it falls to where they can buy alcohol cheapest? I.E. A supermarket, or an off-license.

[Mr Mystery]

Indeed. People 'pre-drink' because they've made a night out so expensive.

The cost does need to be paid, of that there is no dispute. But why apply it to those who aren't contributing to the problem?

There are other ways. My local has several police officers who frequent it, not only because it's an excellent boozer, but because they know there is never any trouble, letting them leave their work behind. So why is the landlady struggling to turn a profit due to heavy handed taxation?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

It's ridiculous in all honesty, I work at a pub, and we do have trouble occasionally, but that's because the Welsh are dicks, and they are usually already drunk.
So pubs aren't the problem, most people go to a pub to have a couple of drinks with friends and have a laugh. That's what me and my friends do on a Sunday eve.

[Denzark]

Pub - chat, drink, pork scratchings, ogle skirt.

Job Jobbed.

[White Tiger88]

Pub - chat, drink, pork scratchings, ogle skirt.

Job Jobbed.

Want to trade types of pubs are countries have then? We have been invaded by Redneck bars here -_-

[Wolfshade]

I was suprised to find in Birmingham a pub that was serving beer at £1.39 per pint and that was last year. Of course it isn't the nicest of places nor is it any real challenge to some of the great real ale houses we've got.
That being said, on of the ones up the road from it were serving beer at £150 per pint...

[Psychosplodge]

Trappist ale?

[Wolfshade]

Trappist ale?

?

The £1.39 was ESB not the fullers one but another, I can't recall which...

The £150 was one of the Brew Dog ones that are sold as shots rather than pints...

[Psychosplodge]

I assumed it was sold as shots, but I was thinking it was one of those brewed by trappist monks (http://trappist-beers.com/about/) where they only brew a limited amount to a secret recipe and they sell at silly prices...so it sounds similar...

[tawelwch]

the Welsh are dicks

Oiiiiiiiiii!
:mad:

Uffar gwirion! :p

Everyone can be bad when they've too much to drink sometimes!

[Kirsten]

having been a pub manager, I can agree with this. the problem are the supermarkets with their ridiculous cheap offers. everyone I know gets drunk before they go out then tops up once there, a total waste of time and money. Restricting sales of alcohol in supermarkets, and in clubs with ridiculous offers on shots, jaeger bombs etc. would solve most of this binge drinking, increasing violence, and soaring hospital admissions

[Denzark]

Kirsten - that is because of the price of booze in pubs, and the restricted hours. I like cheap supermarket booze. I have never impinged on the NHS by my own body having alcohol related afflictions, nor have I injured anyone else through alcohol. Neither have I been prosecuted fro the same. So why should I pay more - what is fair about a group punishment?

[Kirsten]

if you drink moderately, a price hike in alcohol at a super market wont affect you, but it will stop binge drinkers from getting themselves in a hell of a state. it has nothing to do with people in pubs, most managers are fairly responsible, those that aren't are soon made so by the laws which are increasingly stringent, the problem is people loading up on cheap drink at home.

[Wildeybeast]

Kirsten - that is because of the price of booze in pubs, and the restricted hours. I like cheap supermarket booze. I have never impinged on the NHS by my own body having alcohol related afflictions, nor have I injured anyone else through alcohol. Neither have I been prosecuted fro the same. So why should I pay more - what is fair about a group punishment?

There is nothing inherently wrong with cheap booze, it's how people drink it that's the issue. The issue with supermarkets is that they are damaging pubs. As the chairman of Weatherspoons bangs on about in their magazine every month, pubs have to pay 20% VAT on food sales (and selling food is where the majority of pubs make their money) whereas supermarkets don't. As such they can sell alcohol as a loss leader (as they do with petrol). Pubs simply cannot do this. The simplest way to address the situation is to balance up this inherent fairness one way or the other, rather than faffing around with minimum pricing, which will do nothing to either save pubs or address binge drinking.

[Mr Mystery]

Concept.

Duty rebate for well behaved publicans. If your drinkers cause no problems, then you are not part of the problem. Give a certain number of freebies (you can't prevent a violet arsehole being a violent arsehole, just prevent them being a drunken violent arsehole). Had less than three Police attendances in a year? Boom. Rebate on some of your duty.

Ropey I know, but it is just a concept!

Could also match it with fines against Clubs who have a regular Police presence, ditto 'bargain booze' outlets.

Even as a regular drinker, I see no reason booze should be dirt cheap. I don't want it to be any more expensive, but enable a drop to £3 a pint and I'd be happy!

[Deadlift]

Personally I don't think price is the issue, it's the British culture that sees the binge drinkers on a fri, sat night staggering around in their catalogue clothes, shouting and swearing and vomiting in the streets. I swear its something to do the Anglo Saxon mentality and the effects binge drinking has on some of our less graceful youth. Not all but generally the more cerebral challenged seem to enjoy being face down in a gutter at some point during the weekend. Having done a fair bit of traveling and drinking in my youth, it's something I didn't see on mainland Europe so much. The French, Spanish, Italians and Germans I have drank with could all put it away, but here's the catch. They knew when to stop. My European cousins enjoyed themselves as I did, but there was never any need to get limbless but just enjoy the occasion. I think for them drink was part of a night out, where here for some of our lovely kids, drink is the reason to go out.

[Deadlift]

Pub - chat, drink, pork scratchings, ogle skirt.

Job Jobbed.

Not forgetting the Darts and Pool. ;)

[Wildeybeast]

Personally I don't think price is the issue, it's the British culture that sees the binge drinkers on a fri, sat night staggering around in their catalogue clothes, shouting and swearing and vomiting in the streets. I swear its something to do the Anglo Saxon mentality and the effects binge drinking has on some of our less graceful youth. Not all but generally the more cerebral challenged seem to enjoy being face down in a gutter at some point during the weekend. Having done a fair bit of traveling and drinking in my youth, it's something I didn't see on mainland Europe so much. The French, Spanish, Italians and Germans I have drank with could all put it away, but here's the catch. They knew when to stop. My European cousins enjoyed themselves as I did, but there was never any need to get limbless but just enjoy the occasion. I think for them drink was part of a night out, where here for some of our lovely kids, drink is the reason to go out.

It's also the climate they are introduced to alcohol in. Most of our European brethren have much lower drinking ages and young are introduced to alcohol in the climate of a couple of glasses with a meal in family environment. Alcohol isn't some great taboo that you are only allowed when you are an adult. All the talk I hear at school about alcohol invariably focuses around situations where there are no adults present to supervise. Make it something they do with adults and not only does it become more controlled, but it would also lose most of the cool factor that comes from it being taboo.

Mystery, as for your idea, it sounds interesting. It's the opposite of penalising those pubs which cause trouble which I know a number of councils/police forces are now doing. However it still doesn't address the issue of supermarkets selling cheap booze and people getting pre-loaded.

[Kirsten]

it is definitely a cultural issue, but that is not easy to change. I don't tend to go out because all of my friends go out with the sole intention of getting themselves utterly paralytic. I don't for a moment understand why anyone wants to get into that state, as soon as I start to feel tipsy I stop, it is a deeply unpleasant sensation and wasting all your money on alcohol that is doing you a lot of harm and that you will just throw up again is unbelievably moronic. but it is the norm, it is all people want to do, and not doing it is considered odd. going out and not having a drink is treated as a physical impossibility.

I do not see tht there is any way of changing that any time soon, restricting the amount people can buy cheaply is a good way to start tackling this incredibly serious problem.

[Denzark]

Concept.

Duty rebate for well behaved publicans. If your drinkers cause no problems, then you are not part of the problem. Give a certain number of freebies (you can't prevent a violet arsehole being a violent arsehole, just prevent them being a drunken violent arsehole). Had less than three Police attendances in a year? Boom. Rebate on some of your duty.

Ropey I know, but it is just a concept!

Could also match it with fines against Clubs who have a regular Police presence, ditto 'bargain booze' outlets.

Even as a regular drinker, I see no reason booze should be dirt cheap. I don't want it to be any more expensive, but enable a drop to £3 a pint and I'd be happy!



Concept 2:

To buy faags or booze, you have to buy a license off the Government. Buyers of this license accept any risk to themselves pertaining to their vice, ie if you get lung cancer or cirhossis of the liver (sp?) and a doctor attributes it directly to your vice, you have to pay all bills to NHS. If you commit crime and are found guilty while under the influence, you lose your license and have to pay all damages in full.

Simples.

[Wolfshade]

l think the issue is a cultural one as has been said before other countries have lower age but alcohol is the norm.

I also think, again as has been touched on, there is a collective thought that you can't have fun unless you are drunk. Which I think is a bit of a joke. Either that or it is a sad reflection on society that we cannot have fun if we are sober.

The imbalance between the VAT and VATless is where the problem lies for the pubs. Increased pricing per unit shouldn't really effect beer, unless you are buying the 7p supermarket special beer.

One of the pubs I frequent is a specialist real ale house, no food, monthly exciting cheese evenings, but it does have lots of guest beers (http://www.thewellingtonrealale.co.uk/pages/beerboard.php) you can see that they are now all at or above the £3/pint mark. Though part of this is because of the limited production runs of some of these.

Where it will have an effect is with the dirt cheap high abv spirits and I would imagine that it is that sort of behaviour which would be curtailed.

[Psychosplodge]

I don't think collectively punishing the vast majority of responsible drinkers is the answer. I think the 2-3 crates for £15 that you get every year in the summer are perfect to keep the cost off BBQs down. But they probably won't be able to do that now.

The problem lies in the lack of respect in the chavvy types today. When I started drinking at about 14, I never did anything that warranted police attention as even pissed, I still wasn't a thug - loud yes, violent/destructive no.
The club I used to frequent, I'd never seen police outside at kicking out time, until they started a dub-step night. The more mainstream clubs in all have swarms of police outside them every weekend...draw your own conclusions, but imo it's the type of person you are without the booze that effects the type of person you are drunk...

[Wolfshade]

Worryingly 'Splogy I have almost identical stories. A club in Brum XLs the Saturday Night rock night never had any issues but the other nights it would be raided, it closed when at a private function someone was murdered.

[Psychosplodge]

Doesn't surprise me, I mean you've been to corp I'm assuming it was still like that when you went?

[Wolfshade]

Yup, though my house was within skipping distance so it was fine. I did go to mingdom (kingdom) twice and each ime there was a bevy of cops around at kick out

[Psychosplodge]

Yeah I've only been in there a couple of times, awful place at closing, leadmill is pretty much the same come kicking out time too, and I think they're the better examples of mainstream clubs... :eek:

[Mr Mystery]

I can almost feel a grass roots movement growing here.

Seem most people have sympathy with their local, and can quite easily identify the sources of the problem.

In regard to clubs, we can't also rule out the influence of the old Disco Biscuit. Take an inexperienced teenager, and let him watch TV Spaff like 'Skins'. Then introduce him to the grown up world. Bingo bango bongo, off his tits on half a wrap of ajax with 27 shots inside him, because apparently it's 'hella cool'.

Might contact West Kent Camra, see if they fancy supporting. It's really unfair on the struggling publican to shoulder the burden of those able to horribly undercut them.

[Psychosplodge]

I would imagine CAMRA are already involved...

[Mr Mystery]

A fair point well made!

Could also look at reducing the duty levied on Micro Breweries to a pittance. Again, whilst some Ales pack a serious punch (7% and doesn't taste it!) it's not exactly stuff you can get smashed on, as it's too rich. Fizzy lager crap? Yeah. Tastes like weewee, drinks like fizzy pop.

But the current way is the rubbish way.

[Wolfshade]

Yeah Hobgoblin are spear heading a campaign, you can find out more on their facebook page or here: http://www.wychwood.co.uk/#/mischief//hobgoblin/bpny over 18s only...http://www2.beerguild.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Hobgoblin-pubs-need-you.jpg

[Psychosplodge]

Think I've already signed that, 35% increase in three years is ridiculous.

[Wildeybeast]

On that note, how many people here are Camra members? Cos this is exactly what Camra campaign about. I'd recommend you all sign up, especially as it costs £20 and you get £20 quid worth of beer vouchers for Weatherspoons, so it's effectively free and you supporting saving proper beer and pubs.

[Denzark]

I never knew that Wildey, I may take that up. I am getting into my ale in my old age.

[Denzark]

Look, I like to drink in Pubs and like to buy 3 crates for 87p and half a sucked toffee for barbecues in the summer. Lets not confuse this as a linked issue - moral because it is providing a levle playing field for the Publicans. The ever increasing, over inflation increases on pubs is wrong - issue 1. But the proposed minimum price per unit is nanny state coddling to socially engineer a response to a perceived health issue - not to correct issue 1. Just because the collateral of this bollocks measure is good for pubs in the round, doesn't make it any fairer on responsible drinkers. It is a group punishment and the only winners will be the government not pubs. Because your average white walls, beams and brassses real ale boozers, are not where the binge drinking alcopop heads want to go - so they won't be driven back into the conducive atmosphere of the pub if they can't get cheap hooch in tescos.

And, would we want them there? In all their chavvy glory?

[Wolfshade]

Maybe they could resort to moonshining?

[Kirsten]

not really accurate though. A lot of people are getting very drunk on cheap booze from super markets. alcohol related admissions to hospitals are soaring every year, and alcohol related arrests are similarly soaring. forcing super markets to charge higher prices will help limit those figures. It will also help the struggling pub trade because fewer people will drink at home. it is not just chavs that are the problem, a lot of responsible people these days prefer to stay home and drink with friends, they might be more inclined to go out if there wasn't such a massive price disparity, and they will go to the nice responsible bars. Prices in super markets need to be increased, there is really no other choice.

[Denzark]

If the pub prices are going to remain the same, and supermarket booze goes to that price, why would people automatically flock to the pub? If they can afford that proportion of their disposable income in a boozer, they are there already. It is a fallacy to state that parity of prices would make people go (back) to pubs. At home you can smoke indoors if you wish, deny entry to knob-ends, have your dog there, not have flashy gambling machines or pool tables, not walk far at the end of the night, the toilet is always in an accpetable state. So home drinking is perfectly acceptable. You can even get dcent bottled ale that is the equal of some brands of draft.

As I've said, you're talking about responsible people preferring to stay at home. The government claims they are not targeting responsible people. If it is just collateral effect that still does not amke it right. What you mean is chavs aren't just the problem affecting the pub trade. Chavs, by which I mean in this context, irresponsible binge drinkers who take up resources of the nation because of their drunken antics, is who this policy is aimed at - not as a sop to the publican trade.

[Wolfshade]

Indeed, you can even get polypins or mini kegs in if you are having a games night, for instance.

But you do get pubs where dogs can go and there are no fruit machines, though you can buy pork pie.
But it does have a long walk home along unlit country lanes.

I think what one of the issues is that with people generally having less disposable income "staying in is the new going out". Certainly, with the wife out of work we are instead of meeting friends for the ballet or a meal are now entertaining at home and they are recipricating.

Certainly you can see it with cinema attendances, as soon as you are not the only one going to the cinema it is way cheaper just to wait and by the DVD. Either that or my old age is catching up on me....

[Psychosplodge]

I think the problem is the smoking ban. If I was a smoker and had to go stand outside for a faag everytime I wanted one I probably would consider a night in instead.
I really don't see why they can't have smoking rooms, as long as they specify they must be smaller than the main room. you wouldn't even need a bar in there, you can make the smokers walk through to the main room to get served...

or why not go the other way, and lower pub prices, so the idiots don't "pre-load", then when they start to feel it maybe they'll stop drinking rather than suddenly have it hit them all at once

[Wolfshade]

With relation to loading, Birmingham introduced 24hr licenses (which is quite a big deal as there are still areas of Birmingham without any pubs owing to the Quaker influence when Birmingham boomed at the heart of the industrial revolution) and the idea behind that was to stop the last orders surge where people buy lots and then all leave the pubs at the same time and meet up with others from pubs and riotousness, I do not believe that changing the opening hours did have an effect on the overall drunk and disorderly rates

[Psychosplodge]

it's because the pubs didn't behave how they thought they would and stagger the closing, they all just pushed it back to one or two AM, and simply pushed the existing issue later.

[Wolfshade]

Well aside from the exodus at 11 still happens as people are rushing to get the last train/'bus

[Psychosplodge]

So at least they don't have to contend with drunks...

[Wolfshade]

In an interesting similar note:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-20669062

[Mr Mystery]

I think the problem is the smoking ban. If I was a smoker and had to go stand outside for a faag everytime I wanted one I probably would consider a night in instead.
I really don't see why they can't have smoking rooms, as long as they specify they must be smaller than the main room. you wouldn't even need a bar in there, you can make the smokers walk through to the main room to get served...

or why not go the other way, and lower pub prices, so the idiots don't "pre-load", then when they start to feel it maybe they'll stop drinking rather than suddenly have it hit them all at once

As a smoker, the ban doesn't both me in the slightest. Pub is much nicer without the constant tobacco smog. Sure it's an inconvenience in poor weather, but hey, it's my addicition and thus my problem.

As for Dogs...I think part of that is the publican themselves. My local (They do Discworld theme nights. How awesome?) are more than happy for mutts to come in, as long as just like any other patron, they're well behaved and don't cause any trouble. Ditto with kids.

But as others are saying...minimum price per unit does NOTHING to help the Pubs. They are still having their back broken by a disgusting, and increasing level of tax. Supermarkets will still be able to offer a knock down rate, because they make their profit elsewhere. What we need to see, ideally, is a higher rate of tax not on the publican, but the off license. Offies cannot exert control over someones drinking habits in the same way a responsible publican can. Once I've made my purchase, it's kind of taken on faith that a) it's for me, not some kid b) If I've bought a lot it's for sharing c) The bottles will be recycled without a trip to someone's face first.

Pubs are not, and have never really been the source of binge drinking. The government really needs to stop trying to claim that all are equally guilty.

So, here is my conceptual idea.......

1) Tax is increased on alcohol not sold for consumption on premises.
2) Duty and Tax rebate for responsible Publicans who ensure no problems stem from their Pub.
3) Roll out Cardiff's plan across the nation to assist with point 2.
4) Immediate reduction in Tax and Duty for pub bought and consumed drinks. They support a ridiculous number of workers, not to mention communities
5) Micro Breweries exempt from duty on small production runs. Let the pishy foreign muck take the tax!

[Psychosplodge]

That's still punishing the vast majority of responsible drinkers.
We had cheap alcohol available for longer than the pubs have been in decline. I'd say it's the tax at the pump and the smoking ban, combined with entertainment and music licensing (apparently it now only takes one anonymous objection to get an event cancelled) that is hurting pubs.

As a non-smoker I agree it's you addiction and problem, but again I really don't see the issue preventing smoking rooms as long as they have to be smaller than the main room...

example
The village I went to comp in had 12-14 pubs when I started, (supermarkets already sold cheap booze at this time)
by the time I left(@18) it was down to 7.
ten years later it's now down to 3-4

the supermarkets haven't really changed their pricing.
but the tax has increased and smoking ban have appeared...

[Wildeybeast]

As a non-smoker I agree it's you addiction and problem, but again I really don't see the issue preventing smoking rooms as long as they have to be smaller than the main room...

The issue is employees. Whilst non-smoking customers have a choice about going into a smoking room, employees don't. The smoking ban is designed to protect employees, not customers. As a non-smoker and former barman, the smoking ban was the best thing that ever happened to pubs.

[fuzzbuket]

i would write in to my local mp but i dont think that would be too well recived :P

[Wildeybeast]

i would write in to my local mp but i dont think that would be too well recived :P

You're too young to vote, therefore your local MP gives even less of a toss about your opinion than that of people that can vote. :p

[fuzzbuket]

You're too young to vote, therefore your local MP gives even less of a toss about your opinion than that of people that can vote. :p

ohh now you see god-king-emperor salmond wants 16 year olds to vote (IE: everyone with a iq of below a average chimpanzee my age will end up voting for independence 'cause **** the english' :/ )

so theoretically i could vote and get married , but not drink,drive,donate blood. and not hand in homework cause **** you im a voting adult.


ahhhh what a lovley legal system

[Wildeybeast]

My favourite is that you can have sex at 16 but not watch until the age of 18. It always seems rather odd to me.

[Denzark]

My favourite is that you can have sex at 16 but not watch until the age of 18. It always seems rather odd to me.

You can't watch on video maybe, but you could technically be in the same room and witness the ongoing hand to gland combat...

[White Tiger88]

You can't watch on video maybe, but you could technically be in the same room and witness the ongoing hand to gland combat...

No that is illegal to in most country's rofl..... Remember Hookers are against the law but if you Video tape it.... Everything is nice and legal!

[Wolfshade]

My favourite is that you can have sex at 16 but not watch until the age of 18. It always seems rather odd to me.

Also don't forget if you video yourself when you are 16 and watch it would also be paedophile

[Wildeybeast]

No that is illegal to in most country's rofl..... Remember Hookers are against the law but if you Video tape it.... Everything is nice and legal!

Actually they aren't in Britain. Running a brothel is illegal, as is paying for sex in one. Kerb crawling and soliciting sex on the street are, as I think is advertising for sex but the actual of being paid for sex is not, so sex workers themselves are not illegal. It's how escorts get round it, they advertise for 'companionship' only and the private agreement between two people to pay for sex is perfectly legal.


Also don't forget if you video yourself when you are 16 and watch it would also be paedophile

a) If you were 16 that would be the age of consent and so perfectly legal (unless there are duty of care issues involved)
b) I'm not an expert but I'm fairly certain you can't sexually abuse yourself (at least not legally speaking)

[fuzzbuket]

I know a lot of 16 year olds who date 15 year olds. so they are all technically pedos.

[Wolfshade]

The issue would be that if you watch any form of pornography all the "actors" must be 18, at least here.

[White Tiger88]

The issue would be that if you watch any form of pornography all the "actors" must be 18, at least here.

Yup and if you video taped your self at 15 and watched it at 16 in parts of some countries *cough merica cough* they would send you to jail for being a pedo to your self.

On a side note how did this thread go from Beer to the sex trade\Pedo's???

[Wolfshade]

On a side note how did this thread go from Beer to the sex trade\Pedo's???

Because of him (in a roundabout way)
http://www.thedrum.com/uploads/drum_basic_article/87891/main_images/Alex_Salmond.jpg

[Psychosplodge]

The issue is employees. Whilst non-smoking customers have a choice about going into a smoking room, employees don't. The smoking ban is designed to protect employees, not customers. As a non-smoker and former barman, the smoking ban was the best thing that ever happened to pubs.
That's why you have extraction, and no actual bar in that room, make them walk through to fetch their drinks.


My favourite is that you can have sex at 16 but not watch until the age of 18. It always seems rather odd to me.

So as long as you keep your eyes shut or only do it in the dark you're fine...

[Mr Mystery]

Yes.

Well. Anyways....crashing on.

I think we should put up pictures of our favourite pubs, just to share with each other.

[Psychosplodge]

http://alebaggersbeerblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/devcat-ext.jpg
Always a nice pint, and some unusual beers available...

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/02/54/34/2543481_83a814c8.jpg
Decent pint, decent prices, decent music...


And only thirty seconds walk from each other...

[Wolfshade]

They used to be my locals, also the swim inn, bristol/rutland? hotel and benjamin huntsman, hogshead/museum

[Mr Mystery]

I'd likely plump for the Washington meself.

Not a fan of superpubs. Too big innit!

[Psychosplodge]

I avoid west street like the plague, but a s a student, who didn't nip in the swim inn or huntsman? Not sre I'm familiar with the Rutland, is that the small one down a side street from the swim inn?

The cat's small enough not to be "super pubish" it's just wide and not that deep...

[Wolfshade]

I would say the Griffin Inn
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll=52.515235,-1.644548&spn=0.00489,0.008465&t=h&z=17

but as you can see it is in the middle of nowhere...
http://www.lstcamra.org.uk/griffin_inn.jpg

Instead I'll go for the Wellington (more real ales than you can drink in a night)
http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/CaravanClubApps/imagehandler.ashx?size=380&path=http://www.ntopsearch.com/media/images/a/2/a2d59219-256f-4b10-8bbe-319eb0391775/a2d59219-256f-4b10-8bbe-319eb0391775.jpg

Post Office Vaults (a close 2nd), doesn't look great but it is :)
http://lds.localdataimages.com/large/2109/21096788.jpg

[Psychosplodge]

That really is out of the way...

[Wolfshade]

Makes the walk home "interesting"/equivalent to a DofE expedition.
Just have to stay at my sister's house, she can drive me ;)

[Psychosplodge]

lol seems further when you're drunk...

[Mr Mystery]

Quick bit of relevant threadomancy (to prevent me starting a new one).

So, proposals are underway to offer a minimum unit price of alcohol, suggesting around 50p.

Now I'm not economic or health expert, but I'm not sure this is actually the best answer. What is, I hear you ask?

Simple. To stop binge drinking, don't whack up the price of cheap booze.... Just limit the sale of it specifically to Off Licenses and Pubs. Boom. They tend to have the biggest overheads. No more booze as a loss leader, making it already more expensive without unnecessary legislation. And as an upswing, the sadly maligned, and generally exceptionally responsible Publican and Licensee will see an upsurge in sales, protecting jobs. Supermarkets not being able to sell booze won't affect them one iota, on account they already flog it at a loss in order to lure people in in a childish competition.

Could pubs then lower their prices? Sure they could. But you'd still have (for the most part) a level headed publican being able to refuse further service.

Biggedy biggedy bong, several problems tackled with a single piece of legislation, and to the satisfaction of the vast majority I'd wager.

[Psychosplodge]

It's wrong anyway it's collective punishment (human rights violation?) there are are millions of poorly paid workers who buy in bulk when appropriate offers are on and make it last. Why should they be punished because some muppets can't hold their beer?

The other point is most 18 year olds 80-90% of their income is probably disposable. So if they want to get **** faced it'll just cost them more, but they'll be able to pay it.

[Wildeybeast]

As I understand it, it won't make much difference. Most alcohol sales would be over the minimum price threshold anyway. It will basically only affects the likes of White Lightning and Special Brew - high strength, low cost stuff that only your hardened alcoholic touches. Your crate of fosters for £20 from the local supermarket is unlikely to be affected. I may have said this earlier in the thread, but the problem is not alcohol pricing but food. Most pubs serve food nowadays and that is where they make their profit. They have to pay restaurant levels of VAT on it. Supermarkets don't so their food costs are much cheaper meaning they can afford sell alcohol as a loss leader, pubs simply can't afford to do that.
Your plan won't work Mystery. A) I don't see how they can possibly create a 'fair' law which allows sales in offies but not supermarkets and b) they will cry to the European Competition Commission and such restriction of trade will get booted out by them. Far better to whack up their tax on food, which generates extra money for the state and forces them to raise beer prices to compensate for the loss of earning (since they won't dare raise food prices).

[Wolfshade]

I think that the better way to deal with this issue is to make it vat-able at point of sale in supermarkets.

[Wildeybeast]

It already is. They pay the same VAT on booze as everywhere else, it's just they can afford to use it as loss leader (same way they do with petrol) because they make a killing on food.

[Denzark]

There is a legal challenge in Scotland which already introduced a minimum price. Not doing anything the Salmond Creature does is reason enough not to follow suit here, anyhoo. But there is talk a similar challenge will be mounted if English/Welsh law tries to impose a minimum. Using the European Law system! It might be the single best thing the EU does for us.

I hope this never comes to pass.

[Psychosplodge]

As I understand it, it won't make much difference. Most alcohol sales would be over the minimum price threshold anyway.

It won't affect drinking in pubs.

It will affect the offers like the two crates for £12 and similar that supermarkets put on in BBQ season.