PDA

View Full Version : Are our laws getting in the way of our hobby?



j-orge-287
10-13-2009, 01:56 PM
I post this one here because are American friends that are mostly here won't get this.
Are security laws over-enforced?
The other day I went to go to games workshop Worcester and one of my mates came out and told me about how under 12 couldn't go in. This could be because of solvents, because it is an adult hobby; but I heard the staff talking about these CRB checks (or whatever they are called) and how they couldn't let them in.
I personally think this is complete bull$hit as it stopped me introducing my cousin to the hobby (dang it).
Has the law now got to us? post your views.

Wolfshade
10-27-2009, 07:33 AM
Ah this is where the fun starts.

Is wargaming a regulated activity?

A regulated activity requires an enhanced CRB check and ISA (independant safeguarding authority) registration. Such an activity is defined as "The teaching, training or instruction, care or supervision of children on 2 or more days in any 30 day period".

So, normal shopping trip by a 13 year old (for instance) goes into the shop talks with the sales assistant and buys the goods or walks out. In this scenario there is no teaching, training, instruction or care of children so doesn't need need CRB.

Lets have a look at wargamming (imagining parent or other legal guardian is not present):
Scenario 1: Child goes into the shop to paint
In this instance, the GW staff are the defacto carers at this point in the same way an after school activity leader is. So CRB is needed.
If in scenario 1, an adult (not staff) talks to child and goes "here this is how you dry brush", they don't need it as it would count as peer assissted learning by the child and under the supervision of the staff

Scenario 2: Child goes intot he shop to learn to play
Definately teaching/trainging/instruction, but might not cover the 2 hours over 30 days but probably would once the discussion of how to play what armies etc so CRB check needed

Scenario 3: Pair of children play a game at the shop
Similar to scenario 1, only in this instance there will probably be "training" given by staff as the rules are questioned.

I think that covers the CRB nature and child protection from that aspect.

The bit about no under 12 puzzles me as from a child protection point of view as the law defines a child as any one under 18.

The solvents/knives do require a mimimum age limit but there is nothing to stop them being in a shop that sells them or anything else that has an age limit to, Otherwise the local supermarket would be full of under 18s outside as there are solvents (glue/cleaning products), knives, cigarettes, alcohol and even adult magazines.

The big trouble is that with Child Protection you have to be so careful and registered just in case as there have been so many high profile child abuse cases recently, its almost like you are guilty until certified innocent.

MC Tic Tac
10-28-2009, 08:00 PM
[QUOTE=j-orge-287;26904
The other day I went to go to games workshop Worcester and one of my mates came out and told me about how under 12 couldn't go in. This could be because of solvent.[/QUOTE]

No such Law exsists, hell Kids would never be able to go in to most shops!

There are age restriction laws on sales. CRB check seems odd for retail, but I wouldn't blame GW as Gamesday voulenters have to have them too.

j-orge-287
10-29-2009, 06:14 AM
This was just confined to the store and the staffs peference here.

Wolfshade
10-29-2009, 07:37 AM
No such Law exsists, hell Kids would never be able to go in to most shops!

There are age restriction laws on sales. CRB check seems odd for retail, but I wouldn't blame GW as Gamesday voulenters have to have them too.

If the children use the shop for anything other than just a purchase then it could class as a regulated activity as per my above post.

The under 12 aspect could be to stop kids who are too young to play thinking the shop just had general games. Please note that this is a generalisation as there are always exceptions to the rule

Deej
01-04-2010, 02:36 PM
I'd be inclined to think it'd be child protection. I teach martial arts to kids (for my sins) and we all have to have CRB checks, we're not allowed to have only one adult in the room even though it has CCTV, and technically we're not even allowed to make any form of physical contact. Pretty challenging when you're trying to teach kids armlocks, I can tell you.

If there's the possibility of kids being in there with only GW staff and no other adults, it's most likely CRBs.

Sangre
01-24-2010, 06:44 PM
Last summer I inquired about the employment procedures at GW. Turns out a CRB check is required as standard.

ColCorbane
01-25-2010, 11:20 AM
You can't really blame GW for being overcautious, can you imagine what would happen if a child got abused / kidnapped from a GW store, it'd probably kill the company. No parent would let their kids go to GW unsupervised, and we all know that parents don't tend to like hanging around in GW stores. They'd lose their customer base and income would drop drastically, so the investment companies that own GW would dump the shares like crazy due to the price crashing and the fear of been seen as guilty by association. Without the investment companies backing GW and the income getting slashed, the banks wouldn't extend loans or overdrafts and GW would crash and burn.

That's why GW are so cautious about older men wandering into the shops, when they come bouncing over, it isn't just about trying to sell you something, they want to know whether you're actually into the hobby and if you don't know anything about it, there's a reason why THEY show you around and help you from the moment you walk in till the moment you walk out, especially during the school holidays.

As an older gamer, I only visit GW during midweek term time and if I have to go in during the holidays, then I go in, tell the member of staff who comes to me first what I'm after and then I go. If it's my local store, then I might hang around a little bit, but that's only because the staff know me and even then, I tend to have a quick look at the mini's on the tables and then hang by the till.

As part of the GCN, you're club has to have a child protection policy and all the committee members have to have CRB checks. Now, this even applies to my club which has a strict over 18 policy, our youngest player is 24.

Above all, it's the world we live in and we just have to accept these things.

Aldramelech
01-28-2010, 09:40 AM
Goodbye

Mr Mystery
06-27-2012, 11:31 AM
I had an enhanced disclosure check done every time I worked for them. Same when I was a Taxi driver.

Hell, any job that involves direct contact with kids tends to need them these days, whether legally or because it just makes sense!