Does anyone actually paint and play Ultramarines ?

[Deadlift]

Just wondering why the boys in blue are the poster boys for GW ? Not slighting the chapter in anyway but there does seem to be a plethora of other more interesting chapters, many of the "codex compliant" chapters seem to be more flavourful than the Ultras to me. Just wondering who is or has played ultramarines and what drew you to them.

[ElectricPaladin]

I put bits from wrecked Ultramarines vehicles on the larger bases of my Exorcists. Does that count :D?

[OrksOrksOrks]

I know at least 2 people who run Smurfs yeah, they're really popular with younger people too, since they tend toward Space Marines and the boxes and posters almost always show the Ultra's

[Blusox69]

My stepson uses Ultramarines as we got the assault on black reach boxed set to get him in to the game, I still have my Tau from the year dot. He's only 9 but he soon realised that if he painted the models as a non Ultramarine or other codexed SM chapters, then he wouldn't be able to get hold of any special characters.

[Denzark]

Ultramarines were my first chapter. I took them on based on the fluff from WD126 (UK) - an EPIC article stating they had an over large proportion of techmarines, whcih meant they had massive fire support and planetary bombardments. I now and again add a unit here or there.

[phoenix01]

I am in the process of painting an Ultramarines army; Third Company as led by their new captain, Mikael Fabian. It is my fifth army.

[UltramarineFan]

I really like the roman archetype they use for the ultramarines, just because I've always been interested in the roman army and I like sci-fi so the ultramarines are a pretty natural selection. Colour scheme is bright making it more interesting to paint in my view but not overly complicated (like a quartered scheme say though I do like those too)

[MaltonNecromancer]

Ultramarines seem to be the starter army for most people. They then either drop out, never picking up anything else (hence the preponderance of second-hand Ultramarines stuff with AWFUL paintjobs on eBay), or else they learn that they're not allowed to like Ultramarines any more (because everyone else plays them/Matt Ward likes them/they're the beginner's army), and nerd peer pressure forces them to change to something else. Which is a shame. Either that or they see the shiny models other Marine armies get (Sanguinary Guard, I'm looking at you, Best Marine Kit Ever Irregardless Of Rules) and go "I think I'll do them".

Mostly I think it's a peer pressure thing. Gamers are really bad for it.

[Iceman]

I generally don't play Space Marines, but when I do I break out my Ultramarine army which I add to from time-to-time. I like having an army that is essentially the archetypical Space Marine army. I also like the Roman army theme.

[sangrail777]

I've met alot of ultramaines players over the years and countries I've been in actually.

[Kirsten]

they do seem to be quite a few people's first armies, probably because of the prevelance of painted Ultramarines on boxes etc. as others have said. I quite like them but the current codex does annoy me with its' full blown love letter to them. I don not think it is Ward's fault though, I suspect it might be a decision made elsewhere, White Dwarf has promoted Ultramarines as long as I can remember.

[Aspire to Glory]

Ultramarines seem to be the starter army for most people. They then either drop out, never picking up anything else (hence the preponderance of second-hand Ultramarines stuff with AWFUL paintjobs on eBay), or else they learn that they're not allowed to like Ultramarines any more (because everyone else plays them/Matt Ward likes them/they're the beginner's army), and nerd peer pressure forces them to change to something else. Which is a shame. Either that or they see the shiny models other Marine armies get (Sanguinary Guard, I'm looking at you, Best Kit Ever Irregardless Of Rules) and go "I think I'll do them".

Mostly I think it's a peer pressure thing. Gamers are really bad for it.

Agreed. Many players catch on quickly that people have an irrational hatred for them, especially on the interwebs.

I, personally, have much love for them. Their fluff appeals to me and I find them to be quite interesting. However, I can see where people might overlook them. To each their own. A pity that they find a need to bully others into avoiding them, as well.

I'm seriously considering a 30k Army of Ultras. The blue and gold will be beautiful.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Hi, I have about 3,500 points of painted Ultramarines I play with regularly. Working on an expansion (tanks!) at the moment, even. I like the colour scheme, I like their history and character. That's really about it.

[Capn Stoogey]

Hell yes! I started out many years ago with the renaissance space vampires, painted and played a little of most armies over the years and finally decided that I liked the classical period feel of the Ultramarines the best. I paint mine a little darker blue though, just to make them a bit more menacing. I really don't understand why there's so many haters out there :(

[Learn2Eel]

There's quite a few who play them in my LGS, they are the most popular Loyalist side aside from maybe Blood Angels or Grey Knights.
The cool thing about my LGS is that Chaos Space Marines are the most popular :cool: Followed closely be Necrons at the moment. Then you have a few (like one or two) Ork/Eldar/Dark Eldar/Space Wolves/Dark Angels/Black Templars/Sisters of Battle/Chaos Daemons/Imperial Guard/Tau players. The least common are Tyranids - we get a Tyranid player in once every six months at this rate.
I wish more people played more Xenos armies around here, there's so little variety - playing MEQs all the time is annoying, even if I know exactly how to beat them down.

[walrusman999]

First off: Haters gonna hate

Second: I have roughly 3000 points of Doom Eagles, now no one ever hears of the Doom Eagles chapter, and I have actually considered repainting them to Ultramarines just to piss off my gaming group who all hate them from mostly interwebs peer pressure I assume. Only reason I haven't is because nobody and I do mean NOBODY plays Doom Eagles, except me. :D

[ElectricPaladin]

First off: Haters gonna hate

Second: I have roughly 3000 points of Doom Eagles, now no one ever hears of the Doom Eagles chapter, and I have actually considered repainting them to Ultramarines just to piss off my gaming group who all hate them from mostly interwebs peer pressure I assume. Only reason I haven't is because nobody and I do mean NOBODY plays Doom Eagles, except me. :D

I play Exorcists, so I know that feeling. Heck, at least my marines got some minor love in a Forge World supplement. No models, though. :-(.

[Deadlift]

Thanks for the feedback guys, the reason I ask is I am thinking of flogging my Salamanders and doing the Ultramarines 4th Company, partly because my painting has changed quite radically over the years since I started this army, partly after having re-read over and over the Graham McNeill Ventris books and well just because the support they get model wise.
Big Papa Smurf has always appealed to me fluff wise too and his rules look really tasty for 6th.

[Learn2Eel]

I'm one of only two Thousand Sons players in the area, and I'm the only one who is a regular, so I know how that feels. Although, people have learned to fear my own personal Blue and Gold Army :D

[walrusman999]

Thanks for the feedback guys, the reason I ask is I am thinking of flogging my Salamanders and doing the Ultramarines 4th Company, partly because my painting has changed quite radically over the years since I started this army, partly after having re-read over and over the Graham McNeill Ventris books and well just because the support they get model wise.
Big Papa Smurf has always appealed to me fluff wise too and his rules look really tasty for 6th.

As nice as Calgar is, I still think the Salamanders are much cooler fluff wise and I would totally make them if they had supplemental rules (Which is a load of BS that they don't since they are a founding chapter :mad: and most of the others have rules). Plus they are the only Full black man spacemarine chapter. :cool:

[Learn2Eel]

I always want to do Salamanders, but eh, I have enough Space Marines armies - Thousands Sons, Grey Knights. We'll see how I feel after making a huge swarm of 'Nids - it is probable that they will be the last army I start.

[ElectricPaladin]

I always want to do Salamanders, but eh, I have enough Space Marines armies - Thousands Sons, Grey Knights. We'll see how I feel after making a huge swarm of 'Nids - it is probable that they will be the last army I start.

You say that now. Just wait until the Tau* get a new model line. :D.

I kid because I love. I thought I'd only want one army, but then I realized that my poor Tau couldn't win a game. When I started Blood Angels I thought I'd be happy with two armies, but then it turned out that Descent of Angels wasn't really a viable strategy anymore. So I started Exorcists.

But the Dark Eldar have some really beautiful models. And the Sons of Medusa have a neat color scheme and interesting fluff. And it would be cool to have Sisters of Battle or maybe Imperial Guard as allies for my expensive elite Imperium armies...

*or whoever

[Mystery.Shadow]

I've seen many Counts-As Marines....

Today these Ultramarines will be Blood Angels.
These Ultramarines are now Space Wolves.
etc

[Lunar Camel]

I like them because they're vanilla so they're easy to play. They're also easier to paint. Blue with shading, yellow bands and Bam!, you're done.

[DWest]

it's funny how many people mentioned Salamanders in this thread, because seeing a Salamanders army in action (way back in 3rd ed, even!) was what finally sold me on 40k. Flash forward, and I have and still occasionally play a Salamanders army, albeit in bad need of repainting.

I would love to field an Ultramarines army, but I run into the problem of too-many-armies-itus, a disease I know I'm not the only sufferer of, but even once I've picked a Chapter, I find myself wanting to build 2 or 3 distinct armies in the blue and gold. Do I go with:
-A parade-ground perfect showcase army, incorporating one squad from each Company?
-A 3rd Company army, building on the story of their battles against Hive Fleet Behemoth, incorporating things like Carnifex carapace plates for Storm Shields?
-A semi-corrupted detachment, who have been caused to question their way when they learn that their gene-seed actually comes from one of the lost Legions who the Ultras absorbed?

[Black1705f]

I find the topic if Ultramarine hate near and dear to me. I bought the Rogue Trader book back in the 80’s and began a Space Marine army because there were only a few viable options back then (Space Marines, Guard, Squats, Eldar). At that point Ultramarines were just like any other chapter and I simply chose them for two reasons. I like the color blue and their chapter symbol seemed to be the easiest one to paint. Thank god I didn’t choose the Rainbow warriors who are virtually extinct and whose symbol has been embraced by the gay and lesbian community. Not that I’m homophobic I’m just heterosexual.

Over the years my Ultramarines have changed with the times. I’ve gone from exclusive Beakies with white stripes and weapon badges on the shoulder pads to some of the newest gothic over the top gold and blue looks. Many of my original Ultramarines are lost to the warp (ie trash or ebay). I still prefer the older 2nd edition look of blue and yellow second company with red weapons. I do a lot of the upper command and independent characters in the newer blue and gold with black weapons. To me a whole army of rank and file painted the over the top blue and gold garish fashion detracts from the splendor of the uber HQ options. While on that tangent why don’t we ever see GW paint Stern/Vanguard with silver trim as opposed to white. And what about the other poor companies with monochromatic company colors and no easy metallic alternative. Doesn’t seem fair to me, but I digress. I realize the current incarnation of the Space Marine is every battle brother is a hero in his whole right, but I still remember the day that they were just guys in good armor.

My point being is for some of us older Ultramarine players we are just a victim of circumstances. I didn’t ask for this change in my fluff. I didn’t ask to be the poster boy for poster boys. I didn’t ask for a half assed CGI movie. The people who know me know that I’m an OG Ultramarine player so I don’t get the “Noob” comments, but I do endure the occasional “Smurf” comment.

I’ll borrow and modify a quote from Malcolm X. I didn’t land on the Ultramarine love fluff it landed on me.

[The Sovereign]

Before I settled on Space Wolves, I came very close to starting an Ultramarines army, and occasionally still fantasize about it. Calgar and Telion are just great models with great rules and fluff, and there's something to be said for the purist factor that an Ultramarines player gets to enjoy. Plus they get most of the good Imperial toys.

[Kevin48220]

The Ultramarines don't bother me that much, actually. I read the Graham McNeill books and enjoyed them. When I started my army, I went with Codex Space Marines and did think about doing an Ultramarines company, but decided to do a DIY chapter.

I don't have any problems with people doing Ultramarines as their army, or digging them as a chapter. There has to be a baseline or more orthodox chapter just to set the tone for things, and to give people a place to start from. After all, without the Ultramarines, who would other chapters have to define themselves against and ***** about? :D

[Anggul]

The reason so many people dislike them is that they were shoved down our throats for so many years. Now that GW have let off with that and hardly anyone actually plays them, they're about as interesting as any other chapter. Being so strict and uniform to the codex and generically 'heroic' is a uniqueness in itself in these times populated by furries, vampires and deviants of all kinds. They also have the same clean, uniformed but deadly appeal as Tau and Mordians.

[Learn2Eel]

One of the big reasons as well is the atrocious fluff Mat Ward wrote for the current Space Marines codex. I'm sorry, but having read the background to that codex, and learning Ward is an Ultramarines fan, it actually makes me feel ill just thinking about it. Like seriously, Roboute is every chapter's "spiritual liege", and chapters like the Black Templars and Space Wolves are "unworthy"!? What about how he depicts the Salamanders and stuff? It is painful to read for most fans of chapters other than Ultramarines. I think it also comes down to all the "legendary tactical acumen" and "unprecedented honour" they have, even though a thorough analysis of supporting evidence shows you the Ultramarines aren't nearly as worthy of such titles as a lot of the other legions/chapters. Seriously, I read an article that basically showed how so many chapters have done far more to earn such praise. Can't remember the website though.
However, I guess you can say that pretty much all of Ward's codices are like that, where he makes the main faction look godly compared to all others in their background.

By the way, don't take this as a Ward/Ultramarines hate post. In general, I don't mind Ward codices and I think especially with 6th most of his works are finely balanced. I also don't really hate Ultramarines either, but the combination of Ward's bad fluff-writing and the Ultras being shoved down our throats kind of annoys me. When your codex includes "but they can never be Ultramarines" when talking about famous chapters such as the Space Wolves and Black Templars, you know the author didn't think things through.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I still don't buy the grousing about that book. 3/5ths of all Space Marines *are* descended from the Ultramarines. Directly. And almost all of the rest *do* follow the Codex Astartes. The deviant chapters *are* few, and even two of those strands (the Angels) substantially follow the Codex.

Most Space Marines are either descended from the Ultramarines or organised on the lines of the Ultramarines. Even if you have your own traditions - and all do, nobody denies this - there's that acknowledgement of lineage. The book makes a big thing of noting that all sorts of different Chapters have their own emphasis in warfare, their own connections and fraternities (the tournament between Imperial Fists successors, f'rinstance). It's just that they also front-loaded something which had always been in the background, ie. that Ultramarines are the model and basis for most Space Marines.

The book, like all faction books, is written from the point of view of one faction. Ward pointed out when it was released that all sorts of other Chapters were perceived as cooler, so that nobody liked the "vanilla" marines so much. This was his attempt to reinforce that Space Marines, and especially the Ultramarines (who are the model for most of the rest) aren't just vanilla - they're the thin line of brave, selfless heroes who hold the Imperium together. Sure, some Space Marines have fangs, or dark secrets, or a body hair issue, but nine times out of ten it's going to be an orthodox chapter of disciplined battle brothers pulling the Imperium's arse out of the fire.

Which is not to say the book is especially well written, but the idea that the background is "bad" or "wrong" doesn't jive with me. Clumsily put, sometimes, yes.

[Kirsten]

I don't think anyone disagrees with that, the annoyance comes from the way Ultramarines are perceived as the best at everything all the time. It would have been nice if a few of the special characters were not ultramarines. obviously they specify that you can use the characters for any chapter, but characters like Chronus could have been Aurora chapter for example.

[spaceman91]

I have a mate who plays smurfs. he loves the stories of them. his have black trimmed shoulder pads (cant recall company).

[The Sovereign]

I still don't buy the grousing about that book. 3/5ths of all Space Marines *are* descended from the Ultramarines. Directly. And almost all of the rest *do* follow the Codex Astartes. The deviant chapters *are* few, and even two of those strands (the Angels) substantially follow the Codex.

Most Space Marines are either descended from the Ultramarines or organised on the lines of the Ultramarines. Even if you have your own traditions - and all do, nobody denies this - there's that acknowledgement of lineage. The book makes a big thing of noting that all sorts of different Chapters have their own emphasis in warfare, their own connections and fraternities (the tournament between Imperial Fists successors, f'rinstance). It's just that they also front-loaded something which had always been in the background, ie. that Ultramarines are the model and basis for most Space Marines.

The book, like all faction books, is written from the point of view of one faction. Ward pointed out when it was released that all sorts of other Chapters were perceived as cooler, so that nobody liked the "vanilla" marines so much. This was his attempt to reinforce that Space Marines, and especially the Ultramarines (who are the model for most of the rest) aren't just vanilla - they're the thin line of brave, selfless heroes who hold the Imperium together. Sure, some Space Marines have fangs, or dark secrets, or a body hair issue, but nine times out of ten it's going to be an orthodox chapter of disciplined battle brothers pulling the Imperium's arse out of the fire.

Which is not to say the book is especially well written, but the idea that the background is "bad" or "wrong" doesn't jive with me. Clumsily put, sometimes, yes.

As a die-hard Space Wolves player who is usually pretty critical of Ward, I still agree with every bit of this.

[Learn2Eel]

I still don't buy the grousing about that book. 3/5ths of all Space Marines *are* descended from the Ultramarines. Directly. And almost all of the rest *do* follow the Codex Astartes. The deviant chapters *are* few, and even two of those strands (the Angels) substantially follow the Codex.

Most Space Marines are either descended from the Ultramarines or organised on the lines of the Ultramarines. Even if you have your own traditions - and all do, nobody denies this - there's that acknowledgement of lineage. The book makes a big thing of noting that all sorts of different Chapters have their own emphasis in warfare, their own connections and fraternities (the tournament between Imperial Fists successors, f'rinstance). It's just that they also front-loaded something which had always been in the background, ie. that Ultramarines are the model and basis for most Space Marines.

The book, like all faction books, is written from the point of view of one faction. Ward pointed out when it was released that all sorts of other Chapters were perceived as cooler, so that nobody liked the "vanilla" marines so much. This was his attempt to reinforce that Space Marines, and especially the Ultramarines (who are the model for most of the rest) aren't just vanilla - they're the thin line of brave, selfless heroes who hold the Imperium together. Sure, some Space Marines have fangs, or dark secrets, or a body hair issue, but nine times out of ten it's going to be an orthodox chapter of disciplined battle brothers pulling the Imperium's arse out of the fire.

Which is not to say the book is especially well written, but the idea that the background is "bad" or "wrong" doesn't jive with me. Clumsily put, sometimes, yes.

Whilst I agree with that, I still strongly dislike the way they are represented in the book. A lot of Ward's fluff is just cringe-worthy. His rules are good (minus a few) but he really needs to work on the other side to codex writing, and the overwhelming number of special characters we are told are amongst the greatest heroes in the Imperium when they are quite easily outshone by members from other chapters is very jarring. As an above poster pointed out, quite a few of the special characters could have been made for other chapters and it would have been much better.

What really gets me is the way that chapters that only loosely follow the Codex Astartes are essentially treated with disdain by the author. I understand it is supposed to be a codex for ones that follow that stuff but it still gets to me.

As an aside, this is not part of my point, but I love how Marneus Calgar's section doesn't mention that he gets brutally beaten by the Swarmlord :D

[Lexington]

I don't play actual Ultramarines, but do play a 2nd Founding Sucessor Chapter (Aurora Chapter, baby!) who works pretty similarly. I always seem to find a couple of True Blue players wherever I go, thought. Blue just looks good on the Ultramarines, plus they inhabit an appealing space, background-wise, despite being handled poorly by authors like Reynolds and Ward.

[Learn2Eel]

I really don't mind them, I do like how they set an example for other chapters. Their colour scheme is very nice. But yeah, they have been hit by bad writing.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

"As an above poster pointed out, quite a few of the special characters could have been made for other chapters and it would have been much better."

You see, what gets me with this is that Chronus, say, isn't actually that special. He's the best armoured commander the Ultras have - and thus by extension one of the best in the Imperium - but he's clearly meant to be an archetype of a character who a lot of chapters have their equivalent of. That's why it says you can paint them up in your own colours and use them as your own character - they've given you guys the archetype, the template, to do with as you will. The whole thing with the Ultramarines, the Space Marines, and the whole genetic legacy thing is that these characters pop up time and again in all sorts of different chapters.

Even Sicarius is just that effortlessly heroic Space Marine captain that so many chapters have. His equipment is just a version of "classic" Space Marine Captain gear. Yeah, they big him and the 2nd Company up because they're the poster faction, but in a big galaxy defended by supermen who are all genetic echoes of earlier heroes, he isn't actually unique.

He's an Ultramarine because the basic faction (and primogenitor chapter etc. etc.) are the Ultramarines. You're free to use your imagination!

When there's a whole spread of different (sometimes very minor chapters), Shrike, Lysander and Khan, a story where Shrike and Khan fix the shed in a whole section about the noble deeds of other chapters, I find it pretty hard to take the idea that it denigrates other chapters. That whole charge goes back to a couple of clumsy sentences about how the Ultramarines and Roboute are respected as a spiritual liege. And even then, I dunno. Maybe your chapter is a precious, unique snowflake. But unless you're actually playing Space Wolves (or a kick-*** custom codex-deviant Chapter, which is always awesome) then your Power-Armour dudes are using Tactical Squads, Devastator Squads, led by Captains in a doctrine of maximum tactical flexibility according to some tenets of warfare laid down 10,000 years ago. In which case, guess what! Roboute IS a massive influence on your Chapter. Even the fact you're a Chapter at all!

By this point most criticisms of that book are just memes - just repeated ideas. Everyone says it because everyone says it. Some of it's valid, and some of it really isn't.

For what it's worth, also, I have a big Ultramarine army - but my real favourite Chapter are the Salamanders, mostly for their selflessness and humanity. They're also terrifying and Tu'Shan is noted as a galactic-level hardcase by none other than Dante himself.

[Learn2Eel]

That's true of every codex - people are free to create their own equivalent of Zahndrek, i.e. a tactically adept commander that is not renowned for actual personal conflict, and so on. But as far as the written background goes, I would have liked some more diversity - which probably won't happen, and it is less a peeve and more a hope for more unique commanders for other chapters. I don't mind that the Ultramarines have them per-se, but the fact that there are so few for the other chapters is kind of irksome, but that is a failing of most codices and again, not really a complaint. Just something I would really like to see. I'd like to see more characters from other Chapters, as well as more characters from the already-represented chapters. Should I really be restricted to Vulkan for Salamanders outside of Forge World? No, but again, I understand that they can't please everyone. However, if that were the case, maybe a few less Ultra' characters and a few more from other chapters would have been cool, also so that we could get more representation and cool background stories told about other heroes.

As far as denigrating other chapters, that mostly comes down to some of the most painful writing in any codex - where it says that, again, any chapter that takes a different approach from the Codex or is more loose with it "can never be Ultramarines" and I am pretty sure refers to them with a very negative term implying that they are like outcasts. The problem people take with that is that Ward is a massive Ultramarines fan hismelf - it comes off as a very needless comment.

I do agree with your sentiment though.