2500 Black Templars

[WarHammerman]

This is supposed to be a solid list, good for local tournaments. I've been workin' on this for some time now - and while I feel very confident about the crusader squads, and the guys leading them.

What I'm not 100% on is the last 500 points have been troubling me since I worked this list over. [and yes, its exactly 500 points]

Squad Alphonse
*The Emperor's Champion w/ Uphold the Honor
*Crusader Squad
- x5 Initiate w/ Bolt Pistol & Close Combat Weapon
- x3 Initiate w/ Boltgun
- x1 Initiate w/ Meltagun
- x1 Initiate w/ Missile Launcher
- x4 Neophites w/ Bolt Pistol & Close Combat Weapon
*Inside a Land Raider Crusader w/ TL-Assault Canon, Hurricane Bolter Sponsons & Blessed Hull

I went with Uphold the honor, because it was a) less expensive and b) in my experiences a 6++ is used much more often then cover saves. The other 3 vows don't really speak to me.

The mix of Pistol/CC with Bolter dudes, is so that this squad has /some/ ranged capabilities worth a damn. Its not that the bolter guys are bad at CC, the Pistol/Knife guys are just better =D

Squad Bethesda
*Marshal w/ Power Fist, Storm Shield, Adamantine Matle, Artificer Armour, Holy Orb of Antioch, Terminator Honors, Crusader Seals
*Crusader Squad
- x5 Initiate w/ Bolt Pistol & Close Combat Weapon
- x3 Initiate w/ Boltgun
- x1 Initiate w/ Meltagun
- x1 Initiate w/ Missile Launcher
- x4 Neophytes w/ Bolt Pistol & Close Combat Weapon
*Inside a Land Raider Crusader w/ TL-Assault Canon, Hurricane Bolter Sponsons, & Blessed Hull

I went with a Marshall, because I do want that bonus LD across the army - and this guy is a best when configured like this.

Squad Cadimus
* Reclusiarch w/ Crozius Arcanum, Storm Shield, Combi-Melta, Artificer Armour, Holy Orb of Antioch, Terminator Honors, Crusader Seals, Rosarius
- x3 Cenobite Servitors
*Crusader Squad
- x5 Initiate w/ Bolt Pistol & Close Combat Weapon
- x3 Initiate w/ Boltgun
- x1 Initiate w/ Meltagun
- x1 Initiate w/ Missile Launcher
- x1 Neophyte w/ Bolt Pistol & CCW
*Inside a Land Raider Crusader w/ TL-Assault Canon, Hurricane Bolter Sponsons, & Blessed Hull

And of course, you need at least ONE chaplain-type here. Went with the full trio of servitors, because of the speed boost and the Holy Relic bonus. Heck, outside the tank they may move faster.


Here is where I'm having trouble, the last 500 points. I've got a couple ideas bouncing around. I've got them listed below. The idea is that I need some more anti-tank.

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OPTION 1

Venerable Dreadnought
Multi-Melta, Missile Launcher, Extra Armour
+ Drop Pod

Dreadnought
Multi-Melta, Missile Launcher, Extra Armour
+ Drop Pod

Dreadnought
Multi-Melta, Missile Launcher, Extra Armour
+ Drop Pod

[Option 1.5: Downgrade the Power Fist on the Marshal to a Power Weapon (axe?) and upgrade the Venerable to Tank Hunter]

The advantage of this, is that it adds in some Deep Strike, and these dreads are very much badasses against heavily armored targets and tanks. Once the tanks are opened up, the missiles can help take out greater masses of dudes.

-------
OPTION 2

Black Templar Bike Squadron
- x3 bikes w/ Meltaguns & Krak Grenades
- x2 bikes w/ Krak Grenades
- x1 Attack Bike with Multi-Melta

Attack Bike Squadron
- x3 Attack Bike with Multi-Melta

Reclusiarch gains Adamantine Matle & Bionics
Marshal gains Bionics

This option is fast, and anti-tank. The bikes are a neat mix, and are quick. Can also take advantage of the Vow... but that also kills their Jink save. So that can kinda shoot them in the foot.

-------
OPTION 3

Black Templar Bike Squadron
- x3 bikes
- x2 bikes w/ Meltaguns
- x1 Attack Bike with Multi-Melta

Land Speeder Squadron
- x3 Land Speeder Tyhoon w/ Typhoon Missiles & Multi-Melta

This keeps some of the bikes, and also slips in some Land Speeders. More missiles, more mobility - but again, the vow killing the Jink makes me not 100% sold on this.

-------
OPTION 4

* Techmarine w/ Adamantine Mantle, Bionics, Holy Orb of Antioch, Servo-Harness, [Master Crafted] Power Axe, Storm Shield, and Combi-Melta
* x4 Gun Servitor w/ Multi-Melta
Inside a Razorback with Twin-Linked Lascannon, Extra Armor, and Power of the Machine Spirit

Reclusiarch gains Adamantine Mantle


This option is the least "Tank Hunter"-y, but does get a few more bodies on the board, and a lot more ranged attacks. If things do get in close, that tech-marine is a BEAST.


So, that's what I've got running around in my head for now. I'd love to hear what everyone thinks. If you gave more/better options then what I've listed here, I'd LOVE to hear it =D

Thank you.

[Animus Silvanna]

Holy Frack!!!! Somebody still plays BT!? Thats awesome. Ah-Hem anyways I Love the Landraider especially when there is 3 of them it really fantastic to see them on the board in concert with one another. Not that you really have any other choice cause your kinda strapped for options as BT. But in either case i like option 3 it gives you lots of mobility and fire support to cripple squads for your semi-fragile squads to merc say a nasty Kharn/Draigo squad? Also brings some extra vehicle knock-out power that is mobile. And a bonus to bikes and skimmers as they merly have to move to get a cover save now =D

[Aegwymourn]

His vow denies him from taking any kind of a cover save on any unit. Personally I have never found Uphold the Honor to be worth it. Unless you have almost no terrain there is almost always a 5+ cover save to be had (especially if you are considering speeders/bikers). I had thought with how many LR and assaulting you would be doing ACC would be the obvious choice, +2 attacks on the charge isn't awesome but its nothing to be sniffed at either. Also you can only ever have one Adamantine Mantle per army. Out of your options I would say 1 has the most synergy with your list currently, just due to losing all the benefits of cover on options 2 and 3. If you took a different vow I would be all over option 2. A lot of very fast (turbo-boost turn one for a 4+ cover save) anti-tank so turn two all those transports are dead and you can just roll up and assault out of your LR. Would be good times for you, not so good times for them.

The only question I have is how many games/days do you play at a 2500 point tournament? Around me all they play is 1500 maybe 1750 and we squeeze 3 games in about 7 maybe 8 hours? Must be a heck of a long day with 2500 point armies =).

[WarHammerman]

Oh, a new thing came up.

Option 5:
x3 Vindicators, w/ Extra Armor, and Power of the Machine Spirit

[Anggul]

I don't know what kind of quantity of terrain you've been playing with, but I would be worried if you think a 6++ will be used more than cover saves. You should have quite a lot of terrain on the board, that's how 40k is meant to be played. Personally I think the +1S -1I Vow is pretty appealing now, Accept Any Challenge being nerfed was a bit strange and annoying.

[WarHammerman]

I don't know what kind of quantity of terrain you've been playing with, but I would be worried if you think a 6++ will be used more than cover saves. You should have quite a lot of terrain on the board, that's how 40k is meant to be played. Personally I think the +1S -1I Vow is pretty appealing now, Accept Any Challenge being nerfed was a bit strange and annoying.

Since I do not have Furious Charge all over the place, that does sound tempting.

My only real question is: do you get Cover saves, in Close Combat? 6++ will be used more IMO. They tank ride up to the target squad/enemy, get out - the tank shocks them, they shoot a little, then charge in.

[Animus Silvanna]

Really that depends on what you are planning on charging then lol. i think over all the cover saves is better for all your non-riding units that have to survive the first couple turns of fire. If your gonna charge something that is full of power weapons you might need to widdle them down more anyways cause 6+ invul save is maybe gonna save you like once.... where as cover would be way better.

[WarHammerman]

His vow denies him from taking any kind of a cover save on any unit. Personally I have never found Uphold the Honor to be worth it. Unless you have almost no terrain there is almost always a 5+ cover save to be had (especially if you are considering speeders/bikers). I had thought with how many LR and assaulting you would be doing ACC would be the obvious choice, +2 attacks on the charge isn't awesome but its nothing to be sniffed at either. Also you can only ever have one Adamantine Mantle per army. Out of your options I would say 1 has the most synergy with your list currently, just due to losing all the benefits of cover on options 2 and 3. If you took a different vow I would be all over option 2. A lot of very fast (turbo-boost turn one for a 4+ cover save) anti-tank so turn two all those transports are dead and you can just roll up and assault out of your LR. Would be good times for you, not so good times for them.

The only question I have is how many games/days do you play at a 2500 point tournament? Around me all they play is 1500 maybe 1750 and we squeeze 3 games in about 7 maybe 8 hours? Must be a heck of a long day with 2500 point armies =).

Friends and I hold small local tournies at that level, and we play 2 games a day - generally for 2 days (so 4 rounds). We use a point system, and since there are 8 of us nobody gets repeated opponents.

Seondly, the last line of the vow does exclude vehicles - so I could, in theory, still get Jink saves for Land Speeders - just not Bikes.