Pre-Heresy Legion names?

[Daemonette666]

For some of the original founding Legions we already know their original names before their Primarchs renamed them in honour of meeting with the emperor and their legion.

XII Legion originally called Warhounds later became World Eaters
XIV Legon Mortarian renamed the Dusk Raiders as the Death Guard
XVI Horus Luna Wolves were renamed The Sons of Horus
XVII Legion Lorgar's Imperial Heralds were renamed The Word Bearers.

These we know, but we know many had different names before they were reunited with their lost Primarch. If, GW were to mention the original name for your favourite Legion/Chapter (post Heresy) in some of their HH novels or in the new Forge World Heresy Era Rule Books, what would you like them to be called?

GW has a history of ret-conning many facts that do not fit in with their new design for the 40K universe, and they have used ret-conning to eliminate the Squats (never existed or were wiped out by the Tyranids). They have changed the whole history of the Necrons with the new codex. If changes like these can be done, a simple fact like mentioning the name a legion had before the primarch was introduced to them is a simple thing for GW, and can easily be re-ret-conned at a later date as GW sees fit to do, and has done in the past.

Well what do you think your favourite legion was called when the Emperor first built them and took them to the stars on his great crusade?

My favourite legion is the III Legion. The Emperor's Children. From novels and other things like the 40K Wiki and Lexicum, I have worked form the previous hinted at clues that they were drawn from the courts and blood vassal populations of Europa. Their finest youth were offered to the Emperor as tribute as penance after losing in battle at the hands of the Imperial Thunder Regiments during the Unification wars.

I thought they should be called "The Noble Sons". It suits their proud and purist dogma that they and Fulgrim held and was part of the reason for their fall to the Powers of Chaos.

The Night Lords another of my favourite legions, seems appropriate to them already, and I think in one of the HH novels it hinted at them having the same name, as the Emperor's prescience helped him in naming many of the Legions.

I would like this thread to not devolve into a troller's paradise with silly names and arguements starting. Please be civil, and when giving the name for your legion, please supply a reason why you think it should have been called the name you like.

Example: XVIII Legion - Vulcan - Salamanders - name you like them to have been called pre-crusade: Fire Lords, because they have always had an affinity with fire and flamer based weapons up until the development of melta weapons which they became their other weapon of choice.

Who knows maybe one of the GW novel writers will see your responses and add it into the HH novels.

[Lord Anubis]

Not quite what you were asking, but I don't think GW retcons quite as much as implied. The squats weren't erased, their elimination was just written into the existing fluff (eaten and now virtually extinct).

Likewise, almost none of the Necron history has changed--it's more like we've learned more facts which let us look at previous "assumptions" in a new light.

[OrksOrksOrks]

Not quite what you were asking, but I don't think GW retcons quite as much as implied. The squats weren't erased, their elimination was just written into the existing fluff (eaten and now virtually extinct).




That wasn't written into the fluff, it was an off hand, jokey comment in responce to an over asked question to developers, the internet just took it to heart and didn't get that it was a joke

[Daemonette666]

That wasn't written into the fluff, it was an off hand, jokey comment in responce to an over asked question to developers, the internet just took it to heart and didn't get that it was a joke

Either way, GW has never really confirmed what happened to the Squats. All I have heard was the two stories I mentioned. When talking to GW staff in the past, many of whom are now ex-staff, they have said - Squats what are Squats? They never existed.

As for the Necrons, the old codexes referred to them as a race who found the C'tan, and in trying to harness their power to destroy their ancient enemy (the old ones), they were tricked into giving up their bodies and became the Necrons. They then were enslaved, led by the C'tan whom they then served as though the C'tan were Gods. The C'Tan were weakened because they preyed upon each other in order to fill their unending thirst for raw life essence. Now the C'tan are slave to the Necrons, who before had very limited intelligence.

From your moniker OrksOrksOrks, I gather that your play an Ork army, and therefore may not have a particular favourite Space Marine or Traitor Marine Legion. If I am wrong and you do, what do you think they were called when the Emperor first created them?

[Theophilis]

My favourite legion is the III Legion. The Emperor's Children. From novels and other things like the 40K Wiki and Lexicum, I have worked form the previous hinted at clues that they were drawn from the courts and blood vassal populations of Europa. Their finest youth were offered to the Emperor as tribute as penance after losing in battle at the hands of the Imperial Thunder Regiments during the Unification wars.

I thought they should be called "The Noble Sons". It suits their proud and purist dogma that they and Fulgrim held and was part of the reason for their fall to the Powers of Chaos.

It's my understanding that the III Legions "name" was the Emperor's Children because The Emperor claimed the nobility's children as his own. Fulgrim never changed the name. The Emperor made it official because of a speech Fulgrim gave to his legion when first united with them.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Emperor%27s_Children

[Daemonette666]

Strange, the Wickipedia says one thing, the Lexicum and the original Rogue trader seem to indicate another.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Emperor%27s_Children#Pre-Heresy

The Lexicum and Rogue trader are older, but with retconning GW may have over-ruled their old history. The Lexicum says that they were called "The Third Legion" until Fulgrim's speech, and then were renamed the Emperor's Children.

I still like the name "Noble Sons", as it indicates that they were of Noble blood. It also goes hand in hand with the colour purple which was only used for royalty and the rich because it was so hard to make cloth, extracting the dye from shellfish.

[Theophilis]

I think the 40K wiki uses the updated background from betrayal.

[dark messenger]

I love finding out about the old pre-Crusade stuff but it's all so garbled and murky, it's so hard to make any sense of it :(

I know in Battle of the Fang, the Wolves are referred to by their old Fenrisian name Vlka Fenryka... is there perhaps a chance that this was their old Legion name? Would be nice if it was.

Also I'm not certain on much of the White Scars fluff but I think it would've been nice if they were called 'Stormriders' (or something along those lines)

[Daemonette666]

Storm Riders is perfect for the White Scars.

I would have thought that the Space Wolves were named after something Terran/ Earth based, possibly Nordic or Viking, and would have to do with their enlarged Canine teeth. Warg comes to mind or something to do with pack animals, or their over aggressive nature compared to some of the other Legions.

The Wolf Pack sounds a bit lame, but something along those lines would suit them.

[wittdooley]

I doubt the space wolves were ever named anything different. The fluff in the HH books doesn't support that. Vlka Fenryka is the name the wolves give themselves in their own tongue.

Based on brotherhood of the storm, I don't think storm striders works for the White Scars. They infer there that the scars are made up of multiple tribe like brotherhoods not unlike the Space Wolves great companies. Brotherhood of the storm was one of them.

[gwensdad]

I wonder if the names of some of the 2nd founding chapters might have been original names of the legions. Like is "Storm Lords" was the White Scars original name and it's first chapter master brought the name back in respect for the past and looking towards the future.

[Daemonette666]

It does say in the Lexicanum that the 5th legion were renamed the White Scars after Jaghatai Khan was reunited with the Emperor and the Legion adopted the facial ritual scaring of the Primarch's Tribe.

The Legion could have any name that associated with the fast violent attacking style they currently have, unless they only adopted that fighting style after meeting with their Primarch. Storm Lords or Marauders sound like very good possible names.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/White_Scars

This is also backed up by the Wikia

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/White_Scars

I have not checked all the Legionsl out, but many entries on both the Lexicanum and wikia should mention that they were renamed after meeting their Primarch.

There are some Legions that the Wikia and Lexicnum does not mention whether the name was changed or not, and whose name sounds very apt for a generic name the Emperor would have given them pre-crusade. I.E. Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists.

[mjasghar]

It is suggested that those legions that use the subdivision of chapters gave them names or the names came fr the nicknames of their chapter masters eg IF have elite formation lead by sigismund called the Templars or blood angel Amit called the Fleshtearer
It does seem weird that while preaching the imperial truth the emperor gave 2 legions the name angel
Btw what's up with wolves 13th company? In tales of heresy they are called the wolfbrothers which was the name of illfated wolves successors and was supposed to be a wulfen company

[BrotherAlpharius]

I agree with the point about retcons not always being as extreme as people make out. In particular I thought that the new Necron fluff was a really interesting way of re-interpreting the previous theories. I started around about the launch of 2nd Edition, before the Necrons were invented. When the Necrons were introduced it involved teaser fluff in White Dwarf with Imperial archeologists excavating necron ruins and finding ancient carvings. I think of it as the 3rd edition codex represented their understanding - they found ancient carvings depicting the C'Tan ruling over the Necrons and in their the nearest equivalent to the robotic necrons would be servitors so when they encountered necron forces with a C'Tan shard they assumed that the Shard was the "real thing" and the robots were just its slaves. The newest codex isn't a retcon but a better understanding of the necron race. Similarly the newly introduced factions like the Triarch Praetorians have always been there, the Imperium just didn't know about them.

On the main topic Rogue Trader mentioned that the 1st Legion (Dark Angels) were personally commanded by the Emperor for a time and that instead of a Chapter Master the most senior Dark Angel was called "Custodian" as he was technically just looking after the position until the Emperor returned to lead them. This might have a bearing on the Legion's original name if they had one. I think actually simply being "The First" would be quite cool.

Imperial Fists does sound like the sort of generic name a Legion might have had pre-Primarch. The Salamanders on the other hand are named after the creatures of Nocturne so that seems like a post-Primarch name.

Did all of the Legions have formal names from the start or did they emerge over time as informal names - my understanding is that the Dusk Raiders were known for their tactics rather than their tactics being based on an assigned name.

My understanding was that Vlka Fenryka was a Fenrisian term that probably translates as something like "Folk of Fenris".

Alpha Legion fluff talks of the XXth Legion being founded shortly before the discovery of Alpharius which suggests that not all of the Legions were founded at the same time but from the ordering that the Primarchs were found the legion numbers are clearly not sequential in that respect.