Predator Tanks?

[ElectricPaladin]

If you've read my posts elsewhere, you probably already know that I don't subscribe to the "mech is dead" hype. 6th Edition has made vehicles more fragile in some ways, sure, but that just means that we need to be more circumspect about using them, rather than assuming that they are now completely useless.

That said.

I'm kind of wondering what to do with the Space Marine predator. I've never been fond of it. It always seems to me that if you want mobile firepower, you're better off with a razorback (less durable, but carries troops in addition to having some killy weapons options), a dreadnought (can hide in terrain, move and fire all its weapons at full BS), or a vindicator (siege shield lets it charge through terrain and carries a great unique weapon).

This is particularly relevant to me because my Mysterious Benefactor (MB) sent me a predator tank. It's a bit of a fixer-upper (not complaining - sometimes I think I like stuff that needs to be spruced up/stripped and repainted better than I like new models), and I'm considering turning it into a third rhino/razorback convertable or possibly even investing in the bits needed to turn it into a vindicator. However, I'd also welcome a general thread on the tactical possibilities of the predator tank.

[Nabterayl]

I'm new to space marines as a player, and I don't run with a particularly "competitive" crowd - the players in my group will play to win, and will look for ways to make "better" lists make sense, but they still generally require their lists to make sense in the context of their own personal force lore (as opposed to their faction's lore generally). I also have very little experience with the "dakka Pred" (Predator Destructor with heavy bolter sponsons). That said, I've found Predator Annihilators (multiple) useful in a few ways.

One is as a lascannon battery. Though much reviled on the Interwebz, a Predator Annihilator with lascannon sponsons and a dozer blade is still significantly cheaper than an equivalent number of lascannons in a Devastator squad, significantly more accurate on the move, and better at shooting flyers. Is it less durable? I think that depends on the rest of your list. But even if it is less durable, it has other advantages that might offset that.

Another is as a concentrator of fire. I don't know what your tables generally look like, but I often find that multiple lascannon Razorbacks start running into problems of crowding each other either out of cover or out of fire lanes. When it comes to anchoring a flank while hiding behind cover, I prefer a Predator Annihilator - it carries slightly more than twice the firepower of two lascannon Razorbacks in a more durable package in the space of only one Razorback.

With comparison to other vehicles, I think a Predator Annihilator has this to recommend itself:
The longer range of its weapons compared to a Vindicator means that it's less likely to die before it gets a shot off.
It carries less mobile firepower than a dedicated fire support dreadnought, but more firepower overall, and it's tougher.
It's not significantly more hampered by terrain than a Vindicator with siege shield or a dreadnought (when run with a dozer blade, as it should be, you've only got a 1/36 = 2.8% chance of bogging down in terrain).
It's faster than a dreadnought.

[lobster-overlord]

If you're into versatility of the model itself, I say leave it as a sponson-less Predator, or magnetize the whole side piece. I have a Razorback which I swap out as a Baal Predator depending on the game. It uses the Predator turret with twin linked assault cannons, but I don't have sponsons installed, so I can change it game to game as needed.

John M>

[Animus Silvanna]

I still like my vehicles although I have never been an MSU fan. On the other hand vehicles dont have the great possibility of lucking out till the end of the game. Idk how many landraiders were crucial to victory in my lists and made it to the end cause they couldnt do more then glance and when they penetrated they would roll like a 2 or something. With how 6th works now that is almost impossible since they can just shoot most vehicles with just about anything to make them go away. I guess where im going with this is to warn caution and it depends on your local tounry/gaming area. If they seem to gone the way of most people and leave the lascannons and melta guns at home like my area. Well then punish them for their lapse in judgment and show up with that badass piece of death bringer the good ole' Landraider. It sports the same great stuff it always has and seems to have less threat against bringing it down nowadays. I prefer the reedeemer. I get my full move, at no cost to my output of firepower (2 str 7 ap3 Flamestorms), and my purifiers can still storm out and jack some chaos jaws.

[Nabterayl]

With how 6th works now that is almost impossible since they can just shoot most vehicles with just about anything to make them go away.
I'm not sure I agree with this, though it seems to be the prevailing wisdom on the web. I think it's more accurate to say that the number of times you have to shoot a vehicle to make it go away has gone down, not that the number of things you can shoot a vehicle with to make it go away has gone up. The higher your AV, the more true that is. A Predator was never very afraid of autocannons, and it still isn't - you need to hit the thing three times with an S7 shot, and then roll three 6's to kill it. That's certainly possible, but not something to sweat.

[Bigred]

Normally I use them as full LC batteries with a dozer-blade and deploy them back behind a building out of LoS. Then they pop out and blaze away. They always stay in cover and I keep them very distant from the bad guys with LoS to cover objectives. I try to keep plenty of threats between my Preds and the enemy. They rarely ever get targeted.

Still, they are kind of an middling choice. Much better to use them in the Horus Heresy setting where they excel. In the Legion armylist, they can bought in squadrons of 1-3, can mount a variety of potent turret weapons, and even the humble autocannon is a threat as it's a Heavy:4 weapon. They are also dirt cheap.

[MaltonNecromancer]

Assault Cannon Baal Predators = pretty awesome, especially with Heavy Flamers. Good at killign infantry, and the assault cannons stack up well against light armour.
Flamestorm Baal Predator = underrated. Not a must take, but I think it's stronger than people give it credit for.
Deimos Predator with Plasma Annihilator = best version of the tank, hands down.
Deimos Predator with Conversion Beamer = pretty good weapon, but kind of hard to use at full effectiveness; high opportunity cost due to needing to be at optimum range.
All Lascannon Predator = best version of "vanilla" predator. Not bad, but better options exist.
All other Predators = not great.

[Learn2Eel]

I use an autocannon-heavy bolter Predator in my Chaos army and I must say it doesn't disappoint. Forcing saves on MEQs, obliterating light infantry, threatening light vehicles, etc. Mostly it is the cheapness of the model that works for me.

[Wolfshade]

I love my preds, I consider them much more durable than a devestator squad, and at long range able to put out just as much punishment. I prefer to roll with Dakka Preds, in my list I have other ways to deal with armour and the whatnot. I have also found myself taking Vindicators over Lascannon Preds since 6th as now the hole of the template doesn't need to be over the hull for a full strenght blast which makes the S10 blast so much more versatile I think

[Martel732]

Predators have their place, I think. They are outright immune on the front to many weapons that can damage devastator squads, but in turn are vulnerable to things like railguns and lascannons. For BA, I think it is a no-contest. Yes, I know, the BA have cheaper devs but being fast is so huge. I have outgunned so many armies that didn't see it coming because I could drive my tank around a corner and still light them up. In fact, my BA list uses both las/plas and predators. It's a shooty list, not an assault list and I have had a lot more success since switching. Although most other codices are now better than the poor BA.

For other chapters, it gets hairier. The AV 13 is considerably more durable than an AV 12 dreadnought, and it has more ranged weaponry. But if you want to use it all, you can only pivot. I'm not sure how I feel about that, since it has been a long time since I used non-fast predators. I might stick to the budget dakka pred in a vanilla list or instead go for a thunderfire cannon, since it can ignore cover.