Learn2Eel
11-26-2012, 06:34 AM
Hey guys, just got a quick question about the biggest of the beasties.
Having done some research on this, I've learned that the psychic power "Warp Field" from the previous Tyranid codex granted a 2+ armour save and a 6+ invulnerable save, or something along those lines. Hence, a Hierophant with the Warp Field psychic power has a 2+ armour save and a 6+ invulnerable save. However, given that the Hierophant's biomorphs and upgrades follow the rules found in the Tyranid codex, it is logical to assume that to be used appropriately they benefit from the new codex changes (i.e. in regards to Scything Talons, Lash Whips and the like).
Now, Warp Field is no longer a psychic power in the new Tyranid codex. As such, there is no up-to-date definition of the rule. From what I can tell, most are using the definition found in the new Codex: Tyranids. This means that it instead has the Warp Field special rule, which would normally grant it a 3+ invulnerable save. Though the 2+ armour save was apparently granted from Warp Field in the old rules, the fact remains that the 2+ armour save is listed in the Hierophant's basic profile without mention to the Warp Field psychic power. As such, it is safe to assume that it is treated as having a 2+ armour save.
Now, the meat of the question is how Warp Field actually works for a Hierophant; given how lots of Forgeworld units released prior to current codices now use the current ones' rules when said rules are referred to in the units' profile, should the Hierophant be treated as such with Warp Field? Should it be ignored, given that it is listed as a psychic power and not a special rule, or should it actually be used considering the model's rules that used to be in the old Tyranid codex have now been updated? Also, if this is the case, does the Hierophant actually benefit from the 3+ invulnerable save? I direct everyone to this quote from the Zoanthrope entry in the current Tyranid codex, page 44;
A Warp Field grants a Zoanthrope a 3+ invulnerable save.
This is pretty indisputable. The entry specifically refers to Zoanthropes only. However, there is an underlying issue which must be addressed in addition to the Hierophant; the Doom of Malan'tai.
The Doom of Malan'tai (page 58) is listed as having the "Warp Field" special rule; however, there is no insert to say "it is treated as a Zoanthrope for the purpose of....". There is nothing in the Doom of Malan'tai's entry or unit profile to say that it is a Zoanthrope, even if its background denotes otherwise. There is also no rule regarding Legendary Creatures in regards to being treated as a member of their type for the purposes of any biomorphs or special rules.
Accordingly, RAW indicates that the Doom of Malan'tai would not benefit from Warp Field, even though that is how everyone plays it as RAI says the complete opposite. Would this also be true of the Hierophant? Before we get to that obviously, do you think the Hierophant's rules that are supposed to be defined in the previous Tyranids codex be updated to match the new codex, and thus should Warp Field be treated as the special rule and not a psychic power, seeing as the psychic power doesn't exist anymore?
Very interested in the responses I get. I've never really seen a definitive answer on the issue. Mostly it seems to boil down to what people think is fair - I've never used one or seen one in action, but apparently Hierophant's are severely under-costed for what they do, and thus giving them a 3+ invulnerable save would be considered overkill. However, others point out that their ones die quickly if they don't have the 3+ invulnerable save - basically, its a can of worms.
Side note: As much as it is "i" before "e", except after "c", the Hierophant's name still confuses the hell out of me. Anyone else get confused with its name as well?
Someone pointed out to me that instead of buying a Tyranid army I could just get one of these :cool: Haha that's great for a $350 AUD model. :eek: Though to be fair a 1250 point model for $350 AUD is actually more cost-efficient than buying a legal Tyranid army, but eh.
Having done some research on this, I've learned that the psychic power "Warp Field" from the previous Tyranid codex granted a 2+ armour save and a 6+ invulnerable save, or something along those lines. Hence, a Hierophant with the Warp Field psychic power has a 2+ armour save and a 6+ invulnerable save. However, given that the Hierophant's biomorphs and upgrades follow the rules found in the Tyranid codex, it is logical to assume that to be used appropriately they benefit from the new codex changes (i.e. in regards to Scything Talons, Lash Whips and the like).
Now, Warp Field is no longer a psychic power in the new Tyranid codex. As such, there is no up-to-date definition of the rule. From what I can tell, most are using the definition found in the new Codex: Tyranids. This means that it instead has the Warp Field special rule, which would normally grant it a 3+ invulnerable save. Though the 2+ armour save was apparently granted from Warp Field in the old rules, the fact remains that the 2+ armour save is listed in the Hierophant's basic profile without mention to the Warp Field psychic power. As such, it is safe to assume that it is treated as having a 2+ armour save.
Now, the meat of the question is how Warp Field actually works for a Hierophant; given how lots of Forgeworld units released prior to current codices now use the current ones' rules when said rules are referred to in the units' profile, should the Hierophant be treated as such with Warp Field? Should it be ignored, given that it is listed as a psychic power and not a special rule, or should it actually be used considering the model's rules that used to be in the old Tyranid codex have now been updated? Also, if this is the case, does the Hierophant actually benefit from the 3+ invulnerable save? I direct everyone to this quote from the Zoanthrope entry in the current Tyranid codex, page 44;
A Warp Field grants a Zoanthrope a 3+ invulnerable save.
This is pretty indisputable. The entry specifically refers to Zoanthropes only. However, there is an underlying issue which must be addressed in addition to the Hierophant; the Doom of Malan'tai.
The Doom of Malan'tai (page 58) is listed as having the "Warp Field" special rule; however, there is no insert to say "it is treated as a Zoanthrope for the purpose of....". There is nothing in the Doom of Malan'tai's entry or unit profile to say that it is a Zoanthrope, even if its background denotes otherwise. There is also no rule regarding Legendary Creatures in regards to being treated as a member of their type for the purposes of any biomorphs or special rules.
Accordingly, RAW indicates that the Doom of Malan'tai would not benefit from Warp Field, even though that is how everyone plays it as RAI says the complete opposite. Would this also be true of the Hierophant? Before we get to that obviously, do you think the Hierophant's rules that are supposed to be defined in the previous Tyranids codex be updated to match the new codex, and thus should Warp Field be treated as the special rule and not a psychic power, seeing as the psychic power doesn't exist anymore?
Very interested in the responses I get. I've never really seen a definitive answer on the issue. Mostly it seems to boil down to what people think is fair - I've never used one or seen one in action, but apparently Hierophant's are severely under-costed for what they do, and thus giving them a 3+ invulnerable save would be considered overkill. However, others point out that their ones die quickly if they don't have the 3+ invulnerable save - basically, its a can of worms.
Side note: As much as it is "i" before "e", except after "c", the Hierophant's name still confuses the hell out of me. Anyone else get confused with its name as well?
Someone pointed out to me that instead of buying a Tyranid army I could just get one of these :cool: Haha that's great for a $350 AUD model. :eek: Though to be fair a 1250 point model for $350 AUD is actually more cost-efficient than buying a legal Tyranid army, but eh.