Looks like the days of metal are dead

[jgebi]

I was looking through gumtree and ebay and sore a bit of metal models meaning they must be dead or dieing so in good tradition let us remanise about these long dead figures (or soon to be). So just post up picks of your metal figures and some storyies you wouldn't mind sharing, sadly I some how manged to never get one :'(

[Wolfshade]

I for one am glad. I dislike metal, my 30 man DC are lead, that is before white metals and the bond between plastic and metal was never great.
I don't have any photographs as I am at work.
Looking forward to the whole plastic future!

[OrksOrksOrks]

I bought some new metal from GW just the other week, an Escher gang for Necromunda, let me tell you, after a day of clean up, pinning and sticking to bases, I wish they were resin. They chip so easily too. I'm glad metal is dead, it was terrible, we're well rid of it.

[MaltonNecromancer]

I for one am glad. I dislike metal

Agreed.

Metal was something we put up with because there was nothing better. I for one won't miss the great problems of:

1.) Difficult to remove flash.
2.) Having to pin EVERY DAMN JOIN.
3.) Pinning being wholly inadequate in the case of huge models like the Shaggoth, where you might as well just not bother - nothing's going to keep those pieces together.
4.) The model being completekly wrecked just through one drop.
5.) Top heavy Tyranid models that slowly bent under their own weight (Zoanthropes, Venomthropes - I am looking at you).
6.) Paint refusing to adhere to the tips of spiky bits, even on top of several layers of primer, meaning all your beautiful paint jobs last exactly three weeks until you have little shining patches of metal at the tips of everything.


Seriously, metal is a terrible material for models. [EXPLETIVE REDACTED] metal.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Heavy, falling over, bits falling off, awful to clean up and convert... I don't miss metal!

[Xenith]

Yea, resin is just a lot easier to work with, and now GW has their QC sorted out, real good detail capture.

I do like the heavy feel of the old metals though, and remedied this by putting metal washers on the underside of my plastic/resin HQ model's bases.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I agree with all of the above!

Metal is terribru, and it should feel terribru!

[imperialpower]

I also agree I hate the fact that two of my biggest armies Valhallan and praetorian are metal and if I could swap them for plastic or resin I would even my Eldar army is 99% metal thanks to it been 2nd/3rd ED and I can't wait to upgrade it with hopefully new plastic/resin models soon!

[Wildeybeast]

There was something reassuringly weighty about metal models, but all the above points far outweigh this. After having tried to assemble a Screaming Skull catapult and to game with a Zoanthrope, I'm glad to see the back of it.

[Animus Silvanna]

I think the general consensus is that metal was a horrible way for models to go. Having an almost all pewter army (Demonhunters) was just like the worst experience ever. There wasn't one week or tournament that went by that i would have to do on site repairs or atleast once every other month have to repaint certain areas from scratched paint, so very annoying. Not to mention if of those metal models were to fall it was game over for him and if you like to heavily convert things like myself well then that model just split into like 5-6 different pieces each going there own damn way in the world. I love atleast that my new Grey Knights don't exactly break most of the time and rather bounce and are just fine. If metal was a person in a grave i'd dance on it.

[Denzark]

There was something reassuringly weighty about metal models, but all the above points far outweigh this. After having tried to assemble a Screaming Skull catapult and to game with a Zoanthrope, I'm glad to see the back of it.

I liked the weight of metal although would never want it for vehicles. I also think it was awesome where there was dynamic poses - ie 2ed Eldar. Beyond that I would rarther work with plastic than resin.

[DarkLink]

Good riddance to bad rubbish. People can whine all they want about Finecast, at least it's actually usable as a material.

Edit:
Thanks to my metal models, the tips of my GK weapons break off. All the time. Warding Staves, Hammers, Halberds. At any given point in time, I have 3-4 bladeless weapons to deal with. I even had someone try and give me crap about it at the last tournament I went to ('well, I didn't know you had a hammer in that squad 'cause the model was broken (even though I told him I had a couple of hammers in each squad, and that the broken models were the hammers, and considering that my entire army except my Storm Raven is fully painted...)').

[Mr Mystery]

Personal preference? Plastic, Finecast, then metal.

Yet I am still caught off guard when lifting a model previously cast in metal that is now Finecast. Lack of weight always throws me!

But having built dozens of Hive Tyrants (one was mine. The joys of being GW staff during a Nid release..) Finecast was nothing short of a revelation. Bonds in seconds!

Also, handy hint discovered during drunken point proven. Bunging Finecast in a hot oven makes the glue brittle enough after cooling to separate individual parts! Though only done it once, so could have been fluke!

[jgebi]

Dose any one have some pics of their worse metal models that aren't in the warp?

[Lane]

I liked the challenges of metal.

You could tell when someone put effort into prepping their minis and doing conversions took real skill.

[Houghten]

Spare me your elitist poppycock. If converting now takes less skill, then there will be more awesome conversions, and that's a good thing for everybody.

Personally, I HATE metal. HATE, HATE, HATE, HATE, HATE. IF the word "hate" were engraved on every neuron in my brain it would not begin to equal the hate I feel for it. Never mind conversions, just putting together a regular kit as it was intended to be is a nightmare.

That's not to say that I like Finecast any more than I do metal, mind you. The ease of working with the material is balanced by the giant bubbles that are often the exact size and shape of the model's head. Resin is great if done well, but Finecast is... not. There's a reason I convert an equivalent using plastic wherever possible.

[wittdooley]

Metal blows. Good riddance.

[Wildeybeast]

So here's a question to try and get us back to the OP; does metal have any redeeming qualities. Does it have any features which people feel make it better in anyway to either Finecast or plastic? I'm not looking for 'it doesn't have the well publicised quality issues that FC has', but rather does it have any inherent feature to recommend it over the other two mediums? Because I can't think of any.

[David Blumenthal]

So here's a question to try and get us back to the OP; does metal have any redeeming qualities. Does it have any features which people feel make it better in anyway to either Finecast or plastic? I'm not looking for 'it doesn't have the well publicised quality issues that FC has', but rather does it have any inherent feature to recommend it over the other two mediums? Because I can't think of any.

Agreed. I honestly tried to think of any reasons that I'd prefer metal over plastic or resin. I couldn't think of a single, real reason. I prayed for years for metal to depart. Glory be.

[Kawauso]

I can't think of a single advantage.
Some people cite the weight of metal models, but that heft has never really meant anything to me. As long as a model stays upright and doesn't slide down inclines I don't really care about the weight.

So for metal vs. resin or plastic there's...

CONS:
Shiny; details are hard to see prior to priming/painting
Difficult to clean; in part because of the material's hardness but also because of the aforementioned shininess: it can be difficult to spot flash until well after you've primed the mini
Difficult to assemble
Break apart easily once assembled
Chip easily once painted
Heavy; they can tip over easily, particularly if even slightly top-heavy, which leads to chipping and breaking

PROS
Heavy; some people like the weight of the model



So...yeah. Metal sucked and I'm glad it's gone. Can't think of any reason whatsoever that I would ever choose it if given a choice of materials with which to work. If anyone feels like they have anything to add to those pros/cons then by all means go ahead.

[Hunter]

i would like to add a little something here.
Metal ages a lot better than plastic.
over the years i have got my mits on a lot of second hand minis and recently i began cutting in to some old plastic marines to do some conversions , the plastic became very brittle with age and it shattered , something i never had problems with vintage/second hand metal , soke it in your paint remover of choice and voila , ready for a second chance at life on the war gaming table.

I wonder how well fine cast will fair in a couple of years on the second hand market ?

[Wildeybeast]

i would like to add a little something here.
Metal ages a lot better than plastic.
over the years i have got my mits on a lot of second hand minis and recently i began cutting in to some old plastic marines to do some conversions , the plastic became very brittle with age and it shattered , something i never had problems with vintage/second hand metal , soke it in your paint remover of choice and voila , ready for a second chance at life on the war gaming table.

I wonder how well fine cast will fair in a couple of years on the second hand market ?

That's true, metal does tend to have more durability over the years and is the easiest to repaint. Call that one for the pros of metal then. Got to say I still think it is far outweighed by the cons.

[Lexington]

So here's a question to try and get us back to the OP; does metal have any redeeming qualities. Does it have any features which people feel make it better in anyway to either Finecast or plastic?
Small joins. Finecast is terrible here. I've seen so many broken in blisters, or snapping off during assembly, it's put me off the material for anything but very specific models.

[Cpt Codpiece]

in regard to the older plastics snapping.

if you strip plastics with chemicals, sometimes depending on the method used this can happen, it can also go the other way and soften the plastic.

and those old RTB 01 kits and the old rhino/landraider plastics were quite brittle plastic if i remember right, they were very shiney and smooth that much i do remember very clearly.

in all honesty when it comes to conversions i am glad i dont need a saw and vise anymore, just for a head/gun swap, now i can cleanly take a small detail from a mini without totally ruining the model, meaning i can do more conversions :)

for all of the finecast problems, the biggest issue i have is the older models that were built for metal do not have the durability on thinner items like swords and staves, but the models whih are designed with FC in mind seem ok, the details are sculpted a little thicker so as not to snap.

but this is hardly a FC only thing, metal especially the old pre white metal days, would bend and eventually snap.... snapping in such a way as to make a fix hard, if not impossible..... as the metal would swell where it had bent and getting it back meant rermoving the damaged metal.

[Wildeybeast]

Small joins. Finecast is terrible here. I've seen so many broken in blisters, or snapping off during assembly, it's put me off the material for anything but very specific models.

I did say inherent strengths in metal rather than just lacking the problems FC has. I don't understand the point about small joins, surely metal conversions to FC have exactly the same joins as the old metal ones?

[plawolf]

I like metal, especially the weight and durability of it. I can well understand the limitations and annoyance factor of having your basic rank and file troops be metal (old DH player), and plastic troops beats metal troops hands down, no question. But there is just something special and reassuring about metal special characters.

I don't think it's that much effort to make sure you put your metal characters in your carrying case once they are removed as a casualty, and other people generally tend to be more careful and respectful with your special characters so mine very rarely fall on the floor.

I have also taken to magnetizing the arms of my special characters and even most of my elites like Vanguard and sternguard. This means detaching limbs are a non-issue and is also very handy for changing poses and layouts for when I fancy trying something different.

I admit I am probably biased because most of my collection are small infantry models. The medal Sanguinor model I have was a royal pain in the arse to put together, and even though it is mostly a display model since I don't field him very often, he still falls to bits far too often for my liking. I can imagine Astorath being a similar pain and would not like to try making a larger metal model like Hive Tyrants and the like.

[Kawauso]

I admit I am probably biased because most of my collection are small infantry models. The medal Sanguinor model I have was a royal pain in the arse to put together, and even though it is mostly a display model since I don't field him very often, he still falls to bits far too often for my liking. I can imagine Astorath being a similar pain and would not like to try making a larger metal model like Hive Tyrants and the like.

Actually, I have a metal Hive Tyrant and it's probably the only metal model that I don't really mind. It's sturdy and well-balanced, the weight keeps it from sliding and it's just...solid. Now mind you, it was a royal pain in the butt to assemble, and I -would- replace it with a plastic version if it weren't already painted and money were no object, but still - as metal goes, that model is pretty good.

The sorts of metal models that I loooathe are, like your Sanguinor, marine dudes with jump packs. They're always in wicked, dynamic poses...and top-heavy as hell. Not to mention the jump packs weigh a tonne and are connected to the body by a pretty small area, all things considered. Though by far my least favourite metal model has to have been Zoanthropes. I replaced those [insert expletive here] with Finecast as soon as it was an option.

[plawolf]

Actually, I have a metal Hive Tyrant and it's probably the only metal model that I don't really mind. It's sturdy and well-balanced, the weight keeps it from sliding and it's just...solid. Now mind you, it was a royal pain in the butt to assemble, and I -would- replace it with a plastic version if it weren't already painted and money were no object, but still - as metal goes, that model is pretty good.

The sorts of metal models that I loooathe are, like your Sanguinor, marine dudes with jump packs. They're always in wicked, dynamic poses...and top-heavy as hell. Not to mention the jump packs weigh a tonne and are connected to the body by a pretty small area, all things considered. Though by far my least favourite metal model has to have been Zoanthropes. I replaced those [insert expletive here] with Finecast as soon as it was an option.

Ah yes, metal jump packs. Haven't met one that did not need multi-pinning. Falls over real easy as well. Still love them over the plastic/resin ones.

[Lexington]

I did say inherent strengths in metal rather than just lacking the problems FC has.
Well, that'd be the strength - it holds small joins better. Really, it does small/thin parts better overall, in so much as they're less prone to breaking during shipping and handling. This is something that can be designed around, as Cpt Codpiece notes, but it's a point in metal's favor that it holds such things much better.

Really, it's Finecast that I can't see the inherent advantage of, aside from weight. It's brittle, it's apparently a real problem to cast properly, and it raised the prices on minis by, what, 25% or so on average?

[Wildeybeast]

Well, that'd be the strength - it holds small joins better. Really, it does small/thin parts better overall, in so much as they're less prone to breaking during shipping and handling. This is something that can be designed around, as Cpt Codpiece notes, but it's a point in metal's favor that it holds such things much better.

Really, it's Finecast that I can't see the inherent advantage of, aside from weight. It's brittle, it's apparently a real problem to cast properly, and it raised the prices on minis by, what, 25% or so on average?

I have to disagree and say I've found the strength of Finecast joints to be much stronger than on equivalent metal models, especially on larger models. I agree that thin small bits are more prone to breaking, though they can be glued back together really easily. It's a bit more of pain to bend/straighten things like staffs than on metal, though doing so doesn't weaken the piece like it does on metal. As for the price issue, I stand to be corrected on this but as I understand it the resin is actually cheaper than metal and uses the same moulds. The price increase is GW after more money, rather than inherent cost of the material/process. But hey, if you've had bad experiences with FC, I think anyone will struggle to sell you on it, just like no one is ever going to convince me that Zoanthropes and Screaming Skull catapults were better in metal. Sadly it's here to stay until they manage to turn everything into plastic.

[miteyheroes]

I liked metal's weight, and it was easier to bend to repose than resin or plastic.

Beyond that, plastic is best and finecast is ok.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I have no opinion on finecast, as I have never bought any - but I have never enjoyed working with metal and I hated pinning, sanding pieces down or filling gaps with it. And thats only some of the issues I had with it.

Personally I am all-plastic guy, and this is easier than ever now - both with GW stuff and other companies. I've been able to do 100% plastic necrons this way for example (and other stuff like crypteks can be easily converted). I'm just glad my own mini ranges will be able to be 100% hard plastic too - I would of never wanted to use metal or resin.

[Uberbeast]

I'm a professional paintedrand I've worked with a LOT of miniatures. I by far prefer the newer generation of plastic minis over all other mediums, but as the conversation is about metal as a medium, then I'll talk about the pros as I've learned them.

I get a lot of recycle jobs, and I can do a much better strip on a metal model then anything with plastic, and you should simply forget about stripping all but the most robust solid lump of undetailed resin. Metal models are the most hard wearing models on the market, and they can come out looking absolutely brand new with relatively little effort. Metal also has no real warpage when stored in heat, and unless you're tossing your painted models around in a box a simple sealer coat will provide a lifetime of chip-free use.

While I do like plastic a lot, I absolutely loathe resin models, finecast in particular. The stuff is very fragile, easy to break during casual handling. It's stip value is minimal thanks to being especially soft and tender, and I have had to fix hundreds of bubble issues and very bad miscasts both with forgeworld and finecast. Many of the most tiny pieces like krieg korps shovel handles and the like I have simply had to replace entirely with pins and rods thanks to breaks in the packaging.

[White Tiger88]

I miss metal since the old Metal hide Beatles..er...Tyrant was great to smack kids with when they wouldn't shut up -_-

[Kawauso]

I liked metal's weight, and it was easier to bend to repose than resin or plastic.

Beyond that, plastic is best and finecast is ok.

Easier to bend? Add some hot water and resin lets you do just about anything, though...

[magickbk]

I think people aren't really taking time into comparison when thinking about the merits of metals vs finecast. It is true that metal is more difficult to work with from a tool standpoint, and finecast is just as or more detailed than equivalent metal, but we are also really at the first point where there isn't a trade-off in detail to go to plastic. In the past, the machinery and materials for GW's plastic production weren't really all that good, and could only be used for the most common products due to production investment. If you wanted detail and cool poses, you had to go metal. So, in the past, metal was superior to plastic except for price and ease of converting. Now, plastic is superior to metal in pretty much all regards, unless you prefer the feel of metal, which is a matter of personal preference. For almost the same reasons, plastic also has an advantage over Finecast.

As far as durability over the years, nothing really beats metal. I can't imagine anyone will be on eBay 20 years from now buying up old Finecast models to strip and scrub with a toothbrush and repaint like they are new. It just won't work. As a matter of fact, GW has potentially killed the second-hand market with Finecast.

[Houghten]

I think they see that as a positive.

[Sainhann]

Well I would rather have metal before Finecast any day of the week.

Since I started back over 20 years ago my Eldar army is nothing but metal.

Plus I will never buy a Finecast Resin model ever.

[wittdooley]

Well I would rather have metal before Finecast any day of the week.

Since I started back over 20 years ago my Eldar army is nothing but metal.

Plus I will never buy a Finecast Resin model ever.

Because.....?

[DarkLink]

As far as durability over the years, nothing really beats metal.

I will trade theoretical longevity (and you can still strip paint off plastic, you just have to use different solvents and more care) for the fact that my plastic and finecast models won't shatter into a dozen pieces if I drop them, and if a part does break then I can actually fix it with a dab of glue, rather than hopelessly trying to pin the blade back on a halberd or something equally fruitless. And you're deluding yourself if you think no one will buy second hand plastic or finecast models. Seriously, just go on ebay and type in '40k'. I just did it just now, and as rare as finecast is metal is equally rare, and 95% of the bids are plastic models. I really don't care that someone, twenty years from now, will have a slightly more difficult time repainting my army if they buy it off me. I do care, however, that right now, plastic and finecast are superior to metal by every quantitative measure I can think of.

[Necron2.0]

From a GW perspective ... yes, metal is dead. It is not dead in the industry, though, and probably won't be for a long, long, LOOOONG time ... if ever.

As for F*ckCast ... I bought one recently. I collect A LOT of miniatures, and probably half of those are resin, so I am absolutely astonished and amazed that after all this time, with all the input they've gotten, and with all the expertise within the industry available to them, they still cannot F*CKing get it right.

[magickbk]

I think it probably comes down to personal experience. I have never had a blade break completely off a metal model, so I consider it to be more durable, but I've had plenty of plastic parts snap off (old plastic, not newer stuff which is better). The only time I had a metal model shatter into pieces was when it was knocked off the table by a clumsy opponent, and I had not yet learned how to pin.

Whichever has sustained more damage in each of our collections will appear to be the shoddier material to each of us.

[DarkLink]

But when plastic breaks, it takes like five seconds to fix. Play Grey Knights, though, and every single time I pack/unpack my models, no matter how careful I am, it seems like a couple metal halberds or hammers break off, and once that's broken a little glue will only hold it together until the next time you pack/unpack it.

Plastic is, sometimes, but not always, easier to break than metal. But it's infinitely easier to fix. You can't truly fix metal. Once it breaks, the glue and even whatever pins you stick in it will always be a weak point, and on top of that pinning it is a lot of work for inferior results compared to gluing plastic. Plastic models will have a better lifespan from that alone.

[Slacker]

I think of the effort I put into assembling and magnetizing a metal Hive Tyrant and say "Hurray for plastic!"

I have done the same thing to a FC Hive Tyrant, much easier even including the time spent filling bubbles and 'straightening the bendy bone sword*', this took way less time for the same result.

*Not a euphemism.

[dirheim]

The only thing I liked from metal miniatures was the weight, and I solved it gluing some pressed air gun pellets to the inside of my miniatures bases, so they now have more weight and have all the advantages off being made from plastic.