The Fake Geek Girl

[Psychosplodge]

Does such a thing even exist?
I've never heard the term and then in about last three days or so I've seen a couple of dozen posts on various social media feeds such as the following example.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdjjw7WC5T1qcw9rdo1_1280.jpg (http://thingssheloves.tumblr.com/post/35787514995/comicsalliance-geek-masculinity-and-the-myth-of)


Geek Masculinity and the Myth of the Fake Geek Girl

By Rachel Edidin

I’ve been thinking about fake geek girls—or, more, the tenacity with which the geek community has latched on to the bugbear of the fake geek girl. Even in a community with a reputation as argumentative, the intensity and volume of the vitriol directed at the fake geek girl is unprecedented. It’s flat-out weird.

So, what makes the fake geek girl such a threatening spectre? What, exactly, does she threaten?


Seriously, have I been walking around with my eyes shut or is it just another fanboi elitism?

[Wildeybeast]

This seems relevant here. (http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/2012/11/nerds-stop-hating-women-please)

[Psychosplodge]

That'll probably what's caused the upsurge in posts till I've noticed some.

But do they actually exist? Not geek girls I know they exist, but fake geek girls? *shrug*

[Kirsten]

I don't know what that is

[Wildeybeast]

And just found this (http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/2012/11/fake-nerd-girls-whores-and-sexism) follow up article.

[Psychosplodge]

I don't know what that is

?


And just found this (http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/2012/11/fake-nerd-girls-whores-and-sexism) follow up article.

I remember the Felicia Day booth babe incident, I suppose that could fall under this, but I never realised there was a perception of supposed fake geek girls existing.

[Wildeybeast]

Only in the head of hateful misogynists who see nerdom as their refuge from all the women in life who have rejected them because of their hateful misogyny. I knew the internet was filled with some pretty vile people (Warseer being a good example) but the stuff this (http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/internet/2012/07/what-online-harassment-looks) woman had to put up with genuinely shocked me. Check out the link to her blog to see more. I despair of the human race at times.

[Nabterayl]

I don't think you've been walking around with your eyes shut. And I agree with this quote from Wildey's article: "But I have never, actually, in the flesh, met a “fake” geek girl. Or guy."

I also agree with, and identify with, this quote:


Too many nerds have basically internalised the stereotype of themselves as ugly, friendless losers and decided that anyone who doesn't fit that stereotype – particularly women – is a "fake geek", taking advantage of the fact that being a geek is now "cool".

I'm 31, and didn't truly buy that women could like me until I was 23. This despite a whole-hearted faith in Jesus, incredibly loving and supportive parents, a (very pretty) younger sister who thought I walked on water, a lot of friends in middle high school, and the good opinion of pretty much everyone else at school who wasn't my friend. I think I had a lot more advantages than most people in the self-esteem department, and I was still convinced that women would not, could not, like me. I say women because that was my own primary experience, but I think my experience would have been much the same had I also believed that men would not, could not, like me.

So ... I venture to believe that I speak for a lot of nerds when I say that our geekhood, and/or nerdhood, was not just running to something we thought was full of excellence. It was also running away from a world that didn't like us - in my case, even though that world was largely of my own making. The love of beauty and excellence that is at the heart of geekdom was, for me, inextricably bound up with the belief in my own unlovability that fueled that love.

I think it is a genuine crisis of identity to have that challenged. I think a lot of geeks have the same experience I did, that our geekhood truly is experienced as inextricable from a bedrock belief in our own unlovability, as particularly exemplified by our bedrock belief that no woman will ever love us - and thus, by definition, no woman will ever appreciate, let alone enter into, let alone share, the geeky realms where we find so much beauty and excellence to be inspired by. So we have to decide: although we experience the two as inseparable, are they? Can they be separated? Can I discard this belief in my own unlovability without damaging my geeky ardor for beauty and excellence?

We love being geeks, maybe more than anything, and if we decide that being a geek means that no woman will ever appreciate, let alone enter into, let alone share, the sacred realms where we exercise our geekhood - well, what do we do when a woman appears whose presence, let alone behavior, seems to disprove that notion? At some point, anybody with a geek experience like mine has to face this crisis to grow up. Branding the interloper a "fake geek girl" is what happens when we face that crisis and fail, when the two strands of our geekhood stay bound together.

I can name six women - some geeks, some not - who were that woman for me. It took six friends just being women who loved me before I could untwine those two parts of my geekhood and bid the one farewell. Six friends who loved me, over a period of eight years, before I had my first girlfriend. I think I was incredibly fortunate as geeks go, and it was a long, hard process for me. My heart breaks for the people who believe in the "fake geek girl," because I think I know where in their hearts that chimera comes from - and I know how hard it is to let that part of your heart go.

[Build]

I think the closest to this subject that I've seen has to be when you have a "geek girl" posing with a something that looks vaguely like it might be related to chemistry, or possibly nicked from the local school science lab and then strike a semi raunchy pose (usually accompanied with obligatory duck face) and then caption underneath something along the lines of:

Me in teh lab doin experiments and stuf LOL!!!!1 =^__________^=

A part of me dies every time I see something like this because some stupid hipster has decided she's edgy or just plain gets and understands science in all its complexities because she watches the big bang theory. A similar sort of thing crops up else where like the gamer girl fad and even war gamer girl fad (though the later is very rare at best).

I also loath (and I cannot stress this enough) people who talk about being put off something because of a single bad experience.

If you like something enough to be interested in it, you will stick with it and deal with the problems that surround it. Want a better example take the gym girl as an example, she comes in, does 10 minutes of a very nonchalant run/jog/crab scuttle on the treadmill, before doing a million and one leg abductor/adductor reps with the lightest weight possible. She typically wears enough make up to rival the average party clown and then leaves having broken no sweat and moans about how some of the boys "look at her".

A proper gym girl (and I'm very happy to say my gym has one) comes in, knuckles down, gets on with what she's doing, does deadlifts, clean and jerks, presses etc and will shout and talk down any greasy little bicep boy that gets in her way or hogs the machines.

She wins, they leave her alone.

The same applies to gaming I have a friend in Cambridge, if she gets trouble from anyone in store, she makes them suffer for it and they quickly leave her alone, especially as the starers tend to be "more afraid of you than you are of them".

Maybe I'm just getting cranky in my old age, maybe it's the curry talking (it was good), maybe I shouldn't be on the internet on a friday night when I can't be arsed to do anything else or maybe people should moan less (oh the hypocrisy!) and do more.


Bleh!...I've got to go and get something to eat.

[lattd]

I have met some people who say they love big bang theory, cos of the geeks and then asked them about some of the geeky jokes made on it and they are like what? Thats pretty annoying.

[Nabterayl]

Out of curiosity, why? Liking X because of the Y doesn't imply that you understand Y, or identify as Y.

[DarkLink]

Kind of like how hipsters think they're cool cause you've never heard of the music they listen to, regardless of its actual quality? Neripsters?

[scadugenga]

The only kind of "fake" geek girl I can think of are celebrity actresses pretending to be geek in order to get a role.

Anything else is just...ridiculous.

And the vast majority of major con "booth babes" are models. It's not fake geek, it's a marketing decision by the owner of said booth.

[eldargal]

The whole idea of fake geek girls is a mix of snobbery and misogyny. This quote sums it up neatly:

But the views Harris expresses aren't just held by virulent misogynists – instead, they are depressingly common in "geek culture". Too many nerds have basically internalised the stereotype of themselves as ugly, friendless losers and decided that anyone who doesn't fit that stereotype – particularly women – is a "fake geek", taking advantage of the fact that being a geek is now "cool".

Also does anyone else appreciate the irony of a comic book artist complaining about women wearing costumes from comic books?

[White Tiger88]

The whole idea of fake geek girls is a mix of snobbery and misogyny. This quote sums it up neatly:


Also does anyone else appreciate the irony of a comic book artist complaining about women wearing costumes from comic books?

Yes because Some girls will put on anything for attention even if they don't like it. On a side note....Gal dress as a Wytch Elf :D

[eldargal]

I don't think so actually, all the cosplayers I know dress as characters they like because they want to feel closer to them or like what they represent, from badass to adorable. There may be a handful of girls who do it but I'm sure thre are an equal number of boys who dress up as anime characters or superheroes just to impress geek girls.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yes because Some girls will put on anything for attention even if they don't like it. On a side note....Gal dress as a Wytch Elf :D

She does already, but not for your benefit...

@EG - I would, but I haven't really had anyone to do that kinda thing with. But now me and Charlotte are planning cosplay outfits! :D

I think FUS RO DAH should give you a clue as to my costume. :p

[Nabterayl]

Yeah, cosplay is ... not an outsider's sport. The brain has to twist itself into pretzels to accept the notion that somebody would go to a con and cosplay just for the attention. Do cosplayers with a sexy cosplay enjoy the attention? Sure, I should hope so. But that doesn't make them fake, or outsiders who prey upon poor defenseless geeks. Are there bigger geeks out there than the cosplayers? Perhaps, but there is always a bigger geek. And like EG said, real live cosplayers are ginormous geeks. These sexual wolves in geek's clothing who allegedly stalk our cons and gaming groups are entirely fictional as far as I can tell.

Also, I mean, look at the form of the claim. It even sounds like the fantasy of a male with self esteem issues.

[Gotthammer]

Want a better example take the gym girl as an example, she comes in, does 10 minutes of a very nonchalant run/jog/crab scuttle on the treadmill, before doing a million and one leg abductor/adductor reps with the lightest weight possible. She typically wears enough make up to rival the average party clown and then leaves having broken no sweat and moans about how some of the boys "look at her".

See, this is in part an illustration of the problem - you're saying there's a right way and a wrong way for women to behave at a gym - she's not a proper gym girl if she wears makeup, doesn't do heavy weights or do the right type of exercises.
I would've thought she was a proper gym girl if she was a girl who enjoyed going to the gym, regardless of how large the weights she lifts or what she wears.

Take what you said, swap out gym terms for nerd ones and you have exactly the same argument people are using to brand girls as "fakes".



The only kind of "fake" geek girl I can think of are celebrity actresses pretending to be geek in order to get a role.

Funny you mention that as Amy Adams has said she always wanted to be Lois Lane, and the howls of derision have been deafening in some circles. Of course nobody has demanded Henry Cavill prove he wanted to be Superman when he was a kid...


And in regards to Tony Harris' rant - geek guys should be offended too! I mean he's saying you "either RARELY speak to, or NEVER speak to girls. Some [of you are] Virgins, ALL unconfident when it comes to girls..."
And people are leaping to this guys defence when that's what he thinks of you?
Not to mention the contradiction of a girl spending all that money and time on a costume to lure geeks which she apparently hates... what?

[jgebi]

This whole thing is stupid, who cares what girls do or guys for that matter I know people who you wouldn't believe it but are proper geeks and they like to dress up and doing the "sluty" stuff and drive boys crazy and theirs nothing really to wrong with it, that I can see. but this is my point of View from my pocket dimension.

And for the record I'm an epic nerd who spends more time thinking about warhammer 40k then doing other stuff. and view my self as unatractive.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

See, this is in part an illustration of the problem - you're saying there's a right way and a wrong way for women to behave at a gym - she's not a proper gym girl if she wears makeup, doesn't do heavy weights or do the right type of exercises.
I would've thought she was a proper gym girl if she was a girl who enjoyed going to the gym, regardless of how large the weights she lifts or what she wears.

Take what you said, swap out gym terms for nerd ones and you have exactly the same argument people are using to brand girls as "fakes".

But sis, do you even lift? :p



And in regards to Tony Harris' rant - geek guys should be offended too! I mean he's saying you "either RARELY speak to, or NEVER speak to girls. Some [of you are] Virgins, ALL unconfident when it comes to girls..."
And people are leaping to this guys defence when that's what he thinks of you?
Not to mention the contradiction of a girl spending all that money and time on a costume to lure geeks which she apparently hates... what?

I don't take offence to that, because I know that I'm f'ing amazing. :p
Tony Harris is probably those things, but I am not.


Also, I don't discriminate against anyone really, unless what they are doing is immoral. If people want to fake being a geek to get my attention then let them. :)
I've got my own geeky girl to work on. Hahahah!

[Build]

See, this is in part an illustration of the problem - you're saying there's a right way and a wrong way for women to behave at a gym - she's not a proper gym girl if she wears makeup, doesn't do heavy weights or do the right type of exercises.
I would've thought she was a proper gym girl if she was a girl who enjoyed going to the gym, regardless of how large the weights she lifts or what she wears.

Take what you said, swap out gym terms for nerd ones and you have exactly the same argument people are using to brand girls as "fakes".


Not at all, I'm saying you can tell when someone is committed to something due to an interest or love of the subject.

The same (for the sake of fairness) can be said about men too, which is why you have bicep boys, who seem to treat the gym as a night out on the pull and so dress up, stand around in groups and eye up anything with a chest, I've even been followed around by a group of them the last time I was in a French gym. By comparison for the make up argument they tend to wear cheap cologne, which smells just horrible when combined with sweat. Make up in the gym is a huge mistake, any kind of perspiration and it all comes off, or makes you look like a melting wax figure, I know quite a few lady lifters, a lot of them compete wether it's for a tanned and toned contest, power lifting or something else and you can tell they mean business. They never wear make-up for training, they come in get on with what they're doing and as I previously said they get on with it and frequently lift a lot more than the bicep boys.

It doesn't matter what a person looks like or what they wear when they join, chances are if they're in the gym they have joined for a purpose (though the purpose often changes from individual to individual). Regardless though, if a person is serious about the gym because they like it then or because they have a goal they will adapt their training, technique and diet in order to get the best out of it, which is why as I said before, a proper gym girl doesn't wear make up, doesn't stick together some random assortment of exercises and do them in a half arsed manner, because she knows its counter productive and will yield no results. Once again the exact same can be applied to men as well as rarely you get on of the bicep boys who branches off from the groups, trains hard, sorts his attitude out and then starts growing.

The same applies to other interests whether it's lifting, sculpting, gaming, painting or alligator tooth surgery.

But to steer this back to the geek girl and geek guy topic, I think a prime example is the Higgs boson, the amount of rubbish I've seen spewed about this over the internet by "acclaimed geek guys and girls" is insane, especially when they don't even know why it was termed the "God" particle and then you see hissy fits ensue with both sides arguing about it either being God in a particle form or that it irrefutably disproves the existence of God (and please, please, please let's not go down that road). Again, whether this can be attributed to too many episodes of The big bang theory or some poorly written article on the subject in the daily mail is not clear, but all of a sudden it has become a hip thing to talk about even for people who spent their school physics lessons making paper plains rather than paying attention.

[Gotthammer]

Eh, I'm still skeptical - requiring detailed knowledge or a certain attitude or outlook seems too much like "it must be done my way or you're not doing it right". For instance, wearing makeup or cologne is a bad idea when exercising, and is certainly detrimental to effectiveness - but it doesn't make the person any less of a gym junkie if they feel they are. Their workout might not be 100% optimised, hell it might even be bad, but would you say someone isn't a proper 40k fan if their models aren't painted to Golden Demon standard, or assembled badly etc?

To go back to being a geek does it mean you lose your geek card if you either don't know or mis-attribute the reasoning behind the God nickname? I mean if a detailed knowledge of the etymology of the nickname of an until-know theoretical particle is required to be classed a geek then count me out.
If that was the case I could say that unless you know who Bradamante is you are also not really a geek - after all geeks know a lot about mythology too, right? Or if you can't program in five different languages, can't quote Monty Python word for word, don't play D&D, watch anime etc etc.

I can see how someone can be a proper or real doctor / lawyer - you get a certificate and everything - but when it's a self applied label which covers a huge number of sub-groups the whole thing (not you, Build, the OP) reeks of people in their little empires upset that "other" people are getting let in and they can't act like jackasses anymore (see also: terrible game stores, the earlier thread on labels and my long response on the first page).

[eldargal]

I don't mean to answer for Build but I think he was referring to people who talk about things like the Higgs Boson like they know about it just because they are geeks. 'I'm a geek, therefore I know about science by osmosis' sort of thing. I've seen it myself.

I agree with what you're saying though, I think people forget that 'geek' is a catch-all phrase for a subculture that really defies categorisation because the interests that define it are so vast.

[Build]

Eh, I'm still skeptical - requiring detailed knowledge or a certain attitude or outlook seems too much like "it must be done my way or you're not doing it right". For instance, wearing makeup or cologne is a bad idea when exercising, and is certainly detrimental to effectiveness - but it doesn't make the person any less of a gym junkie if they feel they are. Their workout might not be 100% optimised, hell it might even be bad, but would you say someone isn't a proper 40k fan if their models aren't painted to Golden Demon standard, or assembled badly etc?

To go back to being a geek does it mean you lose your geek card if you either don't know or mis-attribute the reasoning behind the God nickname? I mean if a detailed knowledge of the etymology of the nickname of an until-know theoretical particle is required to be classed a geek then count me out.
If that was the case I could say that unless you know who Bradamante is you are also not really a geek - after all geeks know a lot about mythology too, right? Or if you can't program in five different languages, can't quote Monty Python word for word, don't play D&D, watch anime etc etc.

I can see how someone can be a proper or real doctor / lawyer - you get a certificate and everything - but when it's a self applied label which covers a huge number of sub-groups the whole thing (not you, Build, the OP) reeks of people in their little empires upset that "other" people are getting let in and they can't act like jackasses anymore (see also: terrible game stores, the earlier thread on labels and my long response on the first page).

By that argument alone I'd say it's very likely that you yet to see the inside of a gym, let alone attempt to train whilst wearing make up or cologne. Individuals who train hard and have the body to back it up don't wear either because it's simply impractical (rather like training without sports bras).

I think part of the problem is that you may well have misunderstood my point, a person who is interested in an aspect (gyming or gaming or something else entirely) will strive to get better at what they do, they will practice and seek advice and constantly strive to improve their game.

Want an example of this? At the age of 15 I had a 45 inch waist, dieting down for contests now and my waist is 29 inches.

Like another? I've enrolled on an advanced anatomy course run by Simon Egan (a brilliant teacher for human anatomy) to sort out latent issues with my sculpture posing and model dynamic qualities. I frequently chat with everyone form illustrators to sculptors to comic artists and biologists to improve my game (especially given I'm trying to sculpt a carnosaur at the moment in super sculpey).


@Eldargal

I use cats to help improve my understanding of Physics.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ckBlasgNSzg/SlQJNL9IlDI/AAAAAAAANLM/hB5rTDc9R6I/s400/Osmosis+Cat.jpp

[fuzzbuket]

anyone who is a avid fan of TBBT is annoying when they are soo geeky for watching some ****ty show.
but they
cant name all 151(or 152) original pokemon
cant tell you what TES stands for
belive that farmville is hardcore gaming
ect

its just soo annoying.

but if someone is geninley intrested in something (LOTR which has sprung back to popularity for example) i have no problem.

[scadugenga]

See, this is in part an illustration of the problem - you're saying there's a right way and a wrong way for women to behave at a gym - she's not a proper gym girl if she wears makeup, doesn't do heavy weights or do the right type of exercises.
I would've thought she was a proper gym girl if she was a girl who enjoyed going to the gym, regardless of how large the weights she lifts or what she wears.

Take what you said, swap out gym terms for nerd ones and you have exactly the same argument people are using to brand girls as "fakes".

It depends on your definition of "gym girl." If by "gym girl" you mean a lady there to work out and get/stay in shape--that's the positive perception of "gym girl."

But what you see a lot in the US, particuarly with the big chain "Fitness Centers" (Lifetime, Bally's, LA Fitness, etc) are the hotties there not to work out, but looking to hook up/pick up a guy. Usually hanging out in the hottub with their string bikinis and full makeup without ever having broken a sweat. That's a "gym girl" with an entirely different view point.

[Gotthammer]

I don't mean to answer for Build but I think he was referring to people who talk about things like the Higgs Boson like they know about it just because they are geeks. 'I'm a geek, therefore I know about science by osmosis' sort of thing. I've seen it myself.

Or it could be a case of "my friends are talking about this thing so I will talk with my friends about this thing as that is what everyone's talkign about". The sterotypical geek overexplaining about anything can also be in play here (not that I, uh, know anything about that...).



By that argument alone I'd say it's very likely that you yet to see the inside of a gym, let alone attempt to train whilst wearing make up or cologne. Individuals who train hard and have the body to back it up don't wear either because it's simply impractical (rather like training without sports bras).

I was using that example as you yourself brought it up. And good for them, but we can't all be Pauline Nordin so are you not a proper gym girl if you don't have the body to back up hard training?
For instance I'm never going to be ripped, but I am a competent long distance runner. If I was doing weights they'd be very light ones, and I used to have to do a lot of light leg work for physio - would I be a proper gym person then, or would you need to know what I was wearing before judging me?



I think part of the problem is that you may well have misunderstood my point, a person who is interested in an aspect (gyming or gaming or something else entirely) will strive to get better at what they do, they will practice and seek advice and constantly strive to improve their game.

Problem with this definition is that it only encompasses active things - for instance people who are sports fans watch a lot of sports. Are they not proper sports fans if they can't list off every player's name, number and average points in the season. And does that only count for their team, or every team in the comp?

I myself would say I'm a heavy metal fan - I enjoy listening to it, I enjoy going to gigs. Nightwish are one of my favourite bands, I own all their tracks (even the rare ones), I know all the lineup changes that Nightwish went through (and that they were way better with Tarja), but I can't tell you what type of guitar Emppu uses - do I fail the Nightwish geek test? Or do I pass because I know why he uses a different one than his trademark purple guitar in the Bye Bye Beautiful clip?
I was talking to a guy at work who was also a Nightwish fan, and plays guitar. He commented that it was a good model of guitar though I didn't understand fully why, not being musical myself, and then he commented that it was odd he changed recently. I of course told him the story of the changed guitars, and we both had a laugh about it.

Isn't enough to simply enjoy what we love with each other?



Want an example of this? At the age of 15 I had a 45 inch waist, dieting down for contests now and my waist is 29 inches.

Like another? I've enrolled on an advanced anatomy course run by Simon Egan (a brilliant teacher for human anatomy) to sort out latent issues with my sculpture posing and model dynamic qualities. I frequently chat with everyone form illustrators to sculptors to comic artists and biologists to improve my game (especially given I'm trying to sculpt a carnosaur at the moment in super sculpey).

Yep, great, and that's your choice - that you choose to go to such great lengths doesn't mean that someone who doesn't should be counted as any less a fan, or be forced to justify themselves saying that they are a fan or a geek about something (to get back to the original point). The issue was people judging other people for not meeting their standards, as if their is some sort of mythical test that determines the "true fans" from posers or... I don't even know - n00bs or whatever.
Shouldn't we be embracing these people on the fringes and showing them all the other exciting and wonderous things they are missing, rather than pushing them away for not instantly accumulating a lifetime of knowledge in a few months, or for not caring as much as we do?

Also as scadugenga points out, there are different views on what means what - here in Australia we don't have big fitness centres where you can just hang out but we certainly get plenty of pea***** in the gyms. They may be there for different reasons, but I don't doubt they enjoy going there. The same as I wouldn't doubt anyone's conviction if they dressed up as a comic/game/tv character - hell even if they don't know anything about the character and just felt like getting dressed up to go to a con who am I to judge or doubt them?

[Deadlift]

I think anyone trying to be something they are not for the sake of "coolness" may as well not bother. I don't try being a geek, apparently I just am. It comes natural to me and I guess many of you guys too. I don't try being a "gym bunny" it's just something again that comes natural to me.
We are what we are, we like what we like. Trying to fit a stereotype when it's not natural to you is not just idiotic but your going to make a fool out of yourself at some point too.

Be what you are, enjoy what you like and love life. Simple.

[Nabterayl]

I think part of the problem is that you may well have misunderstood my point, a person who is interested in an aspect (gyming or gaming or something else entirely) will strive to get better at what they do, they will practice and seek advice and constantly strive to improve their game.
I disagree with this. A person who is interested in an aspect of something will do it. They will not necessarily strive to improve their game. I assume you're a Warhammer fan, since you're here. Do you really strive to improve the quality of your painting, modeling, and playing, beyond simply doing them? Most Warhammer fans I know of will strive to improve to a certain point, and then decide simply to do, because striving to get better is no longer worth the time.

In my experience, this is true of other forms of geekery as well. I am competent in about 11 forms of radical vintage dance, and in my favorites I'm better than 95% of the people I dance with - in northern California, which is pretty much the vintage dance capital of the United States. I can discourse fairly well about the social history of the dances I do, and talk your ear off about why polking to German metal is just as much in the historical spirit of the dance as polking to Strauss. A few years ago I realized that my form had stopped getting better, because I was no longer dancing five times a week, and I was no longer trying to master the dances that other people in my dance community liked but were not my favorites. I had a real crisis about this for several months, until I realized I needed to chill out and ask myself why I wanted to get better. I didn't suddenly become a radical vintage dance poser because it wasn't worth my time to become one of the top 1% radical vintage dancers in the Bay Area.

Everybody has their own threshold for when they are good enough at something to stop actively trying to get better, and simply enjoy doing. I'm with Gotthammer - better to judge whether somebody is doing what they are doing because they enjoy it, rather than trying to judge whether their threshold is high enough.

EDIT: To go back to the OP, talking about single hotties who think a gym is a good place to meet single guys is one thing (I'll take your word for it that those people exist, though I don't see (i) what's wrong with it or (ii) how they stay hot at an age where they have to go to a gym to meet guys without being into physical fitness themselves). But has anybody on this thread actually met a girl who pretends to be a geek for predatory reasons? Because I sure haven't.

[Build]

I disagree with this. A person who is interested in an aspect of something will do it. They will not necessarily strive to improve their game. I assume you're a Warhammer fan, since you're here. Do you really strive to improve the quality of your painting, modeling, and playing, beyond simply doing them? Most Warhammer fans I know of will strive to improve to a certain point, and then decide simply to do, because striving to get better is no longer worth the time.


Seeing as I sculpt professionaly I'd say I do.

I think my point has not come across well, let me rephrase it.

If someone is dedicated enough with their training then they make the necessary changes, both in terms of the styles of training and their diet, the body then follows, you just need to adapt your training based on what you're striving for and if you've reached that point then well done, you've achieved what you set out to do, if not, then something needs to change.

The thing is it's obvious who is there to make those changes or maintain them, compared with who is there to pull or get attention (and yes, this happens with both genders).

As for your second point about sports fans, well that's not really something I'd know anything about, I'll support my country during things like rugby (football and cricket and especially tennis does not interest me) but I'm not mad about it I've always preferred playing sports rather than watching them.


I myself would say I'm a heavy metal fan - I enjoy listening to it, I enjoy going to gigs. Nightwish are one of my favourite bands, I own all their tracks (even the rare ones), I know all the lineup changes that Nightwish went through (and that they were way better with Tarja), but I can't tell you what type of guitar Emppu uses - do I fail the Nightwish geek test?

Or do I pass because I know why he uses a different one than his trademark purple guitar in the Bye Bye Beautiful clip?
I was talking to a guy at work who was also a Nightwish fan, and plays guitar. He commented that it was a good model of guitar though I didn't understand fully why, not being musical myself, and then he commented that it was odd he changed recently. I of course told him the story of the changed guitars, and we both had a laugh about it.

Isn't enough to simply enjoy what we love with each other?

Love each other? What sorcery is this????

You make a solid point there, but I think part of the problem might well have been my choice of gym metaphor, because it's one of those things where there are not fifty shades of grey (I cannot believe I said that...).

It all comes down to one thing:

Are you there to improve or try to improve yourself (be it size, strength or shape) in theory everyone is, which you would think is why they joined, but it then progresses, some people are content to come in day after day, doing the same routine over and over again, there's no change, no variation and there in lies the problem.

Have you achieved what you wanted to?
A: yes - then well done, have a cookie and kudos on losing x number of pounds you wanted to shift or hitting a certain lifting weight, body fat % etc
A: no - then what are you going to do about it? - keep working at it.

Use a gym, see what it's like, it's very obvious who is there trying to work hard (regardless of what they are wearing, lifting, or listening to) and who is there to try and pull/show off/perv.



The issue was people judging other people for not meeting their standards, as if their is some sort of mythical test that determines the "true fans" from posers or... I don't even know - n00bs or whatever.

I may well have missed that point in the initial post, I saw the photo and the angry old man inside me (Bernard) woke up. But I don't think there's any kind of discrimination in gyms (the discrimination of "that person does not look good, or doesn't lift X amount of kg on clean and presses), certainly not with the larger guys (like deadlift) as I said, it's easy to see who is trying and who is not, regardless of what their training is like and that is where my initial rant came from (thinking of a very specific girl who pandas to the bicep boys and sadly is guilty of eyeing up the larger members).


Also as scadugenga points out, there are different views on what means what - here in Australia we don't have big fitness centres where you can just hang out but we certainly get plenty of pea***** in the gyms. They may be there for different reasons, but I don't doubt they enjoy going there. The same as I wouldn't doubt anyone's conviction if they dressed up as a comic/game/tv character - hell even if they don't know anything about the character and just felt like getting dressed up to go to a con who am I to judge or doubt them?

It's a shame, Aus used to have an awesome gym scene.

As for cosplay events, people do what they want, if it makes them happy then why should they be censored.

[Gotthammer]

eyeing up the larger members

>_>

<_<

So anyways...



I may well have missed that point in the initial post

For a neat summary of the OP, which is where I'm coming from, check this link out (http://dcwomenkickingass.tumblr.com/post/35644420254/tonyharris) (it has a screencap of the Facebook post that started it all). I will warn you that it might make you depressed about humanity.


For reference the macro in the first post was created as a response to this one:

http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads//2012/11/22287_322019134572202_1883149713_n.jpg?848685

posted with this comment:

However, it is a pet-peeve of mine when I see a fashion model (for example) slip on a pair of glasses, hold-up a comic book over her ta-tas and then try to say “Look at me! I’m a gorgeous geek.” As a loud and proud geek, this offends me… that’s all. Someone can be a fashion model… or even a nude model. That’s fine. But people should embrace what they really are without lowering themselves to false-advertizement, you know?

by a writer for Newsrama, Bleedingcool and Image comics. Full account here (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/11/11/fanboy-rampage-jennifer-de-guzman-vs-dirk-manning/).

If you have time, please give those links a read as it might make my position a bit clearer :)

[eldargal]

This article (http://feminspire.com/idiot-nerd-girl-has-a-posse-taking-back-the-meme/) is a really good read about the Nerd Girl Meme. I particularly like this:
http://feminspire.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Screen-shot-2012-08-28-at-10.08.11-PM.png

[DrLove42]

Id say shes not cos no one would wear those glasses by choice. Therefore they are a fashion statement in a hipster way and shes wearing "nerd" as a fashion statement., therefore suggesting its something she really aint.

Tje myth of non geek girls pretending to pull is somethkng created by the most rejected on geek classes to protect their egos at times.

[eldargal]

Oh I don't know, you should see some of the glasses vintage girls wear.:p I also know some geeks and geek girls who look for the most unfashionable glasses they can find just as a poke at the whole nerds in glasses thing.

Of course even if she is just pretending the assumption is she is doing it to deceive as opposed to just poking fun at nerds by donning hte worst glasses she can find. Goes back to the whole 'women are deceitful' thing, clearly she can't just be being mean she must be out to trick nerds and rob them of their virtue and/or money.:rolleyes:

[Deadlift]

I don't know ? She just looks like a "self righteous up her own arse needlessly pouting know it all teenager" to me :)
Basically like most teenagers lol. I am quite sure I was one many years ago.

[imperialpower]

Honestly isn't this somthing more suited to a playground trying to brand people into different groups? I mean having a joke about been a nerd is one thing and hell I wish more of the girls I know and meet were into the same kind of stuff as me but it sounds like some people need to grow up and just accept that we don't all fit into these segregated little groups.

[Psychosplodge]

Is this the answer?lol

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mekbx0UuRG1qjwknso3_250.jpg

[MaltonNecromancer]

cos no one would wear those glasses by choice. Therefore they are a fashion statement

What.

*blinks*

No, wait.

*reads quote again*

No, wait. What.

A "fashion statement" is a deliberate choice in clothing or aesthetic apparel designed to make a statement about who you are. A carefully considered choice.

So to restate what you've said: no-one would wear them by choice, which means that she's wearing them by choice.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa281/usblog/Wat_StoneColdSteveAustin.jpg

I literally have no idea how your logic works. :confused:


self righteous up her own arse needlessly pouting know it all teenager

A phrase which coincidentally describes every 40K internet pundit ever. :rolleyes:

[Wildeybeast]

A phrase which coincidentally describes every 40K internet pundit ever. :rolleyes:

Exactly. All these 40k fanboys, going round calling themselves nerds, they're just posers. The games got tanks and planes and stuff, no way that's nerdy. Only fantasy players are true nerds.

[DarkLink]

http://www.shortpacked.com/comics/2012-11-21-courage.png

[Uncle Nutsy]

my nerd sense isn't tingling. so I have to say she's not a nerd. or even a geek.

[White Tiger88]

Exactly. All these 40k fanboys, going round calling themselves nerds, they're just posers. The games got tanks and planes and stuff, no way that's nerdy. Only fantasy players are true nerds.

So true...second i pull out my Fantasy army or talk about real world history people get all OMG U ARN'T A NERD YOUR A GEEK GTFO 40K!!!!! -_- As for "nerd" girls i am yet to meet one (In Person) who isn't a total ***** and cute.

[Godless Zealot]

I may be male but I have recently had a similar experience of this kind of geek prejudice towards outsiders. I have never really classed myself as a geek or a nerd and despite having a lifelong passing interest in video games never been into traditionally geeky things nor am I particularly clever or academically minded. Yet recently through some whim me and a good friend of mine (who had flirted with 40k very briefly as a teenager) decided to take up Warhammer 40k. This idea originated after enjoying the original Dawn of War series and the Space Marine game. So after getting ourselves established in the hobby we've recently started to check out local gaming clubs to explore the tabletop wargaming scene and maybe it's just us but we were a little put off. Now I am not expecting to meet a group of new 'best friends' but some our experiences were awkward to say the least. At one club we were met with sneers of derision after mentioning we only, for now at least, play 40k. "Oh, you just play Games Workshop games?" was one snotty response from one club member. There were several comments about our lack of 40k lore and general geek knowledge too. So my first opponent after spending minutes deriding my army list then went all out to completely annihilate my army and proclaim how great he was after his finely tuned army list demolished mine. Cue responses from others like "give up now" or "wow you really suck" and these weren't teenagers they were grown men. I don't consider myself sensitive but it felt awfully harsh and a little humiliating. It didn't make for a pleasant gaming experience and I know sometimes 'no one wants to play against the noob' but without 'noobs' where does the future of the hobby lie? Then at another club we were given, as is hinted at in previous posts, I would call a kind of geek test? What started as innocent questions became hostile interrogation as our lack of geeky knowledge became apparent to the group.

"What do you mean you've never seen Firefly?"

"You've never read Lord of the Rings? Why are you here?"

"You got into 40k from Dawn of War? Really?"

"You haven't read any of the black library books yet?"

These were the kind of questions and responses we received. It made for an awkward experience, sorry but I didn't know I had to of read/seen/done all that as prerequisite to play with toy soldiers. It led to us feeling kind of ostracised from the group and what we thought would be a journey into tabletop wargaming kind of turned sour. Of course there were some guys who seemed a joy to get on with but it still seemed hard to 'fit in' and enjoy some wargaming. We came away feeling we were not geek enough to enjoy the game at these clubs.

[Gotthammer]

my nerd sense isn't tingling. so I have to say she's not a nerd. or even a geek.

I can't work out if this is meant to be serious or not... :confused:


@ Godless Zealot - sorry you've had such crappy experiences. I've had similar with someone (about mid 40's) having a go at me for playing 5th and he started going on about how 2nd was the best edition blah blah this is why it was better. This guy was also meant to be the "welcome wagon" :rolleyes:


It didn't make for a pleasant gaming experience and I know sometimes 'no one wants to play against the noob' but without 'noobs' where does the future of the hobby lie?

Exactly!

[Mr Mystery]

Sorry to join in late...

But this to me is simply the nerd version of a jock labelling every girl who won't sleep with him a lesbian. There are jock nerds out there who feel that the scene needs to be approved by them.

I say sod it. And I reserve the right to be as awkward with geek girls as I am with non-geek girls. I want them, and I know I stand a chance, if only I didn't wuss out so readily.

[Psychosplodge]

@GZ, just find something to out geek them at, it'll really piss them off...

[Godless Zealot]

@ Godless Zealot - sorry you've had such crappy experiences. I've had similar with someone (about mid 40's) having a go at me for playing 5th and he started going on about how 2nd was the best edition blah blah this is why it was better. This guy was also meant to be the "welcome wagon" :rolleyes:

It's ok :). I'm over it now but I was just initially a little shocked at the treatment. It seems there are other clubs in my local area to try so hopefully one of those will be more welcoming! I am sure there are some great people to game against out there somewhere! It's just like online video gaming I guess there are always bad eggs.


@GZ, just find something to out geek them at, it'll really piss them off...

That would of been fun, just a shame I couldn't find anything....

[Uncle Nutsy]

I can't work out if this is meant to be serious or not... :confused:

It's a little bit of both. I've been around the varying degrees of "geek" and "nerd" all my life and I can usually pin someone's geekiness down pretty well.

Take you for example. You've been here, you don't write massively pedantic posts that take ten minutes to read (and sometimes fifteen minutes to understand) so I think I can say you're somewhere around 'functional geek'. That's someone who can pass for an average person but has enough geekiness to be interesting. Amirite?

The one in the picture? Self-advertising, lens-less glasses, and the duckface. Unless the world has completely inverted in the last five years, it comes across more of 'attention-whore' than true blooded nerd.


***


Zealot's post reminded me of an acquaintance of mine, where when I told him I was a videogamer, he went right into the 'you're not a real gamer!' speech. I just stared him straight in the eye and said 'just because I play videogames and not all the tabletop games that you do, does NOT make me less of a gamer'. I think he gets annoyed at the fact that I can out-geek him on a lot of things where he can only out-geek me on just a few things. I call that a victory.

[Gotthammer]

Self-advertising, lens-less glasses, and the duckface. Unless the world has completely inverted in the last five years, it comes across more of 'attention-whore' than true blooded nerd.


***

'just because I play videogames and not all the tabletop games that you do, does NOT make me less of a gamer'.

You're judging her entirely on her apperance. You can't see the problem with that, especially considering your reaction to that acquaintance of yours?
Take your quote and sub in "just because I wear hipster glasses and pull a duckface" at the beginning of it for effect.

I'm not sure what your criteria for girls is so that they meet your standards of looking geeky enough (feel free to enlighten me on how geeks girls should dress, act and.pose for photos [though given your comment about advertising perhaps we're not allowed to be photographed]) but if you'd only seen a pic of me I doubt I'd pass your test.

[Psychosplodge]

(feel free to enlighten me on how geeks girls should dress)

Corsets :D

Really though since when has geek had a dresscode?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Why the hell are we destroying each other over an internet meme? This is (pardon my french) f*cking ridiculous. Everyone calm down.

[Psychosplodge]

We are?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yeah! Freakin' Gotthammer vs Uncle Nutsy over there!

[Nabterayl]

Because it's a meme that speaks to all that is base and low in our community, and we wish to explore that for the purpose of ennobling ourselves and our fellow gamers?

That is, it is a meme that speaks to all that is base and low unless there really are a bunch of girls out there who are sexual predators pretending to be geeks in order to increase their number of conquests. Nutsy, if you've met any of those, I think you'd be the first one in the thread.

[Gotthammer]

I won't deny I was being pretty sarcastic I don't think I've been rude, angry or at anyone's throat. I was questioning the logical disconnect between judging one person on appearance but decrying judging of another because of equally superficial reasons.
The meme is not just a stupid picture, but spun off from very real problems within the geek/nerd community that are very often ignored because of some sort of fear of offending each other (google geek social fallacies), when they do need to be assessed openly and honestly - else we get commentary like the original facebook post that started it all in the first place.

If the board rules have changed so that we can neither disagree nor express non-positive emotion with each other, perhaps some sort of official announcement is in order. Now that's sarcasm. I'm genuinely interested to hear Nutsy's reply, but if you feel we're in need of moderating just lock the thread and be done with it.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I don't even know why I try to break up arguments anymore... ¬¬

Have fun kids, don't come crying to me...

[dark messenger]

OK having read this thread and some of the links from start to finish (a feat not undertaken lightly) I'm still none the wiser as to what the whole "Fake Geek" thing is about...

My only answers to this are; since when was being labelled something a good thing?
and; who really has the right to pass judgement on another just because that person doesn't meet their own exacting standards?

For my own personal experiences, I've spent my entire life on the outside of social circles and conventions. Without trying make it sound edgy or whatever - I've pretty much lived in the shadows and not always because I've wanted to.
I've been a member of many various gaming clubs and activity groups and I've always been happy to share my interests with others. As a result I've been labelled all sorts and "geek" has come up more than a few times.
Even now, the tenants who live in my home reckon I'm a bit weird coz I post here and do things differently to them.

I help some of my friends model and paint not just 40K but other models too - some are even just decorative. I love chess and computer games and playing Magic: the Gathering. I'm even in two D&D groups. I have always loved science, technology, history (military and otherwise)... does this mean I should be labelled a geek/nerd?
I have as many female friends as I do males, and my own fair share of paramours, but am still awkward as the day is long when I meet a girl I'm interested in :D

I'm a well balanced, mostly-educated, responsible adult. And aside from my slight draconian streak and my tendency to react poorly when provoked I'm nice enough to let you be yourself around me.

Deadlift was right - just be who you are because that's what's best for you.

Incidentally I apologise if this post is a bit awful but I just thought it would be nice for me to venture something rather than just reading ;)

[Psychosplodge]

Well basicly I saw this meme in my tumblr feed, and thought is was ridiculous.
Then someone linked to the rant that spawned the meme.
Then discussion..

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

OK having read this thread and some of the links from start to finish (a feat not undertaken lightly) I'm still none the wiser as to what the whole "Fake Geek" thing is about...

My only answers to this are; since when was being labelled something a good thing?
and; who really has the right to pass judgement on another just because that person doesn't meet their own exacting standards?

For my own personal experiences, I've spent my entire life on the outside of social circles and conventions. Without trying make it sound edgy or whatever - I've pretty much lived in the shadows and not always because I've wanted to.
I've been a member of many various gaming clubs and activity groups and I've always been happy to share my interests with others. As a result I've been labelled all sorts and "geek" has come up more than a few times.
Even now, the tenants who live in my home reckon I'm a bit weird coz I post here and do things differently to them.

I help some of my friends model and paint not just 40K but other models too - some are even just decorative. I love chess and computer games and playing Magic: the Gathering. I'm even in two D&D groups. I have always loved science, technology, history (military and otherwise)... does this mean I should be labelled a geek/nerd?
I have as many female friends as I do males, and my own fair share of paramours, but am still awkward as the day is long when I meet a girl I'm interested in :D

I'm a well balanced, mostly-educated, responsible adult. And aside from my slight draconian streak and my tendency to react poorly when provoked I'm nice enough to let you be yourself around me.

Deadlift was right - just be who you are because that's what's best for you.

Incidentally I apologise if this post is a bit awful but I just thought it would be nice for me to venture something rather than just reading ;)

dark messenger wins thread.

/thread :p

By the way, I also play Magic: The Gathering.

[Psychosplodge]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcpn7jniUR1qekaf5o1_250.gif

[dark messenger]

Ok first off thanks TDA, your reply made me smile.

Second - Psychosplodge that is an awesome sight, that gun firing underwater like that lol. Although I'm not sure I understand the reference...

Third - is there a forum here for discussion of Magic the Gathering? Coz if there is, I can't find it (sorry to be a pain)

[Psychosplodge]

kinda equivalent to /thread lol

[Deadlift]

What the f* cks a meme ?

[Psychosplodge]

Things like lolcats and the keep calm posters etc.
It's like a trend that spreads like a virus.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

dark, I just bumped the thread that I made.

[Gotthammer]

My only answers to this are; since when was being labelled something a good thing?

We had a thread about labels a while back where I answered just that question (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?26145-Labels).

[MaltonNecromancer]

What the f* cks a meme ?

A concept posited by Richard Dawkins, that some ideas function in an identical way to viruses - that they spread through various vectors, that they evolve over time, etc... It's actually quite fascinating. He uses it to do things like explore religion, culture, etc...

When people normally talk about memes online however, what they are usually referring to is what used to be called an Internet Meme, normally of a humourous nature. Early internet memes include Numa Numa, lolcats, the Star Wars Kid, Advice Dog, and so on. Other internet memes tend to be of shocking images, either of a repulsively pornographic nature (involving things like scatophilia, etc...) or else grotesque, real-life violence.

For more information, I recommend KnowYourMeme.

Oh, and if you're going meme-browsing, I give you some free advice. Don't research The Power Five (the five most famous "shock" images) as they're all pretty horrible, and most especially, no matter what anyone does, never, ever, EVER, EVER look up the Pain Series. It's a series of photographs of gore, including many of absolutely horrific real-life violence, and it's just horrible. Made me feel bad for quite a while.

[DarkLink]

That is, it is a meme that speaks to all that is base and low unless there really are a bunch of girls out there who are sexual predators pretending to be geeks in order to increase their number of conquests.

http://cdn.themis-media.com/media/global/images/library/deriv/398/398269.jpg



I don't know what's more dangerous, cosplay assassins or judging people based on their appearance over their character. I'm gonna go with the latter, since that one is actually real.


What the f* cks a meme ?

A unit of cultural information. Not that that will help you understand what it is, but once you do understand what it is you realize it's a very succinct definition.

[Deadlift]

Thanks for the info on meme's guys. Whilst a little wiser I took Maltons advice and didn't investigate any further. Some of what you described sounds unpleasant in the extreme, not my thing at all. :) keep it PG and I am happy.

[Wildeybeast]

A concept posited by Richard Dawkins

Richard Dawkins is a bellend.

[eldargal]

http://cdn.themis-media.com/media/global/images/library/deriv/398/398269.jpg
This = win.

I do agree with Gotthammer that you simply can't judge whether or not someone is geeky by how they look. I for one have none of the stereotypical geek girl physical traits and I'm a huge geek.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdw929iuhd1rlbhxoo1_1280.jpg

[Emerald Rose Widow]

That is just priceless

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Seems legit.

Or... You could just do what I do and not care what anyone does. Some lad at work was worried that I'd judge him because he just revealed that he was gay, I just said to him "I don't mind what you do with your life, if you like men then that's cool. Whatever floats your boat"

[White Tiger88]

Geek girls that arn't crazy as hell are a figment of the Imagination.........At least around here.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

eldargal isn't crazy, I had her tested. :p

[White Tiger88]

eldargal isn't crazy, I had her tested. :p

.......Thus proving you are crazy and making any test invalid....Plus did she not say some posts back she is crazy and evil?

[eldargal]

Yup.

If geek girls don't start crazy they end up crazy from all the bullsh*t geek boys put them through.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

It was a Big Bang Theory reference...

Also, eldargal, I think that situation has been reversed in our case. :p

[Denzark]

They can imitate the geek dress, but rarely the miasma stench of the worst of the worst...

[Wildeybeast]

It was a Big Bang Theory reference...

You made a BB reference about a person who doesn't watch BB?

[Uncle Nutsy]

You're judging her entirely on her apperance. You can't see the problem with that, especially considering your reaction to that acquaintance of yours?

You might not hear this from any guy you talk to on a daily basis but.. of course we judge on appearance. It's the first thing we do, and it's not a bad thing to do. To say otherwise would be self-denial. And if any other guy tells you he doesn't, he's lying to your face. It's just in our nature.


I'm not sure what your criteria for girls is so that they meet your standards of looking geeky enough (feel free to enlighten me on how geeks girls should dress, act and.pose for photos [though given your comment about advertising perhaps we're not allowed to be photographed]) but if you'd only seen a pic of me I doubt I'd pass your test.

there's no standard on how geeky one should look. It's in the character of a person. And any true geek would not go around advertising that they are geek. Even today it's still a bit of a stigma. The true geek doesn't need to say or show they are geek. You can just tell.

Take that photo for example. The fact that the glasses don't have lenses in them, the hair that looks dyed, the tone of skin, and the fact she has the word 'nerd' written on her hand. It just seems 'off' on a lot of levels. It's sort of how you can tell if someone's not all there, is spinney, is a bit daft, is hiding something, etc.


I won't deny I was being pretty sarcastic I don't think I've been rude, angry or at anyone's throat. I was questioning the logical disconnect between judging one person on appearance but decrying judging of another because of equally superficial reasons.
The meme is not just a stupid picture, but spun off from very real problems within the geek/nerd community that are very often ignored because of some sort of fear of offending each other (google geek social fallacies), when they do need to be assessed openly and honestly - else we get commentary like the original facebook post that started it all in the first place.

Your sarcasm wasn't unnoticed. In fact I kind of enjoyed it, and I enjoy this discussion. I like it when a person has the constitution to trade a few friendly jibes with me. I'm a big boy, and I gots ams thick skins.

[Gotthammer]

You might not hear this from any guy you talk to on a daily basis but.. of course we judge on appearance. It's the first thing we do, and it's not a bad thing to do. To say otherwise would be self-denial. And if any other guy tells you he doesn't, he's lying to your face. It's just in our nature.

Missing my point slightly I think - I meant specifically juding her geekyness on looks, when you decried a person for judging you on the same matter over something equally trivial.




there's no standard on how geeky one should look. It's in the character of a person. And any true geek would not go around advertising that they are geek. Even today it's still a bit of a stigma. The true geek doesn't need to say or show they are geek. You can just tell.

Take that photo for example. The fact that the glasses don't have lenses in them, the hair that looks dyed, the tone of skin, and the fact she has the word 'nerd' written on her hand. It just seems 'off' on a lot of levels. It's sort of how you can tell if someone's not all there, is spinney, is a bit daft, is hiding something, etc.

You say there's not a standard of appearance, then say geeks don't show they're geeks, which is saying there's a standard. Also, if that's the case you'd better tell Thinkgeek, TopatoCo, Level Up Studios and others to shut down. And let Big Red know not to bother with any BoLS merch either :p

It really boggles the mind that you're saying she seems off because of her skin tone. I really hope you don't mean it that way, but there are some unfortunate implications in that one (else see Dark Links wonderful comic above with its comment about BMIs and clear skin). But even still, most of the people I've known with dyed hair have been incredibly geeky, and I don't see how being daft or out of it prevents someone being a geek either.

The whole problem is that segments of the geek community exclude people, quite often female people, from events and groups and make their life hard simply due to the perception of not being geeky enough, not looking "right" and so on (and, yes, this happens in the larger world). Issue 1 is that there isn't one way of being geeky, and no way to really test it (see my earlier hyperbole about this). Even saying you're a Batman geek could mean you've only seen the movies but know every line, all teh cut scenes and every detail of unreleased background info that went into them. Or it could mean you've seen every episode of BTAS a dozen times and all the comics related to the show, or you followed the main comics until the recent DC reboot, or just started with the new timeline, or just love the character and pick a bit here and a bit there.

Issue 2 is that geek culture often claims to be super accepting and tollerant, seen as a reaction against the bullying geeks and nerd traditionally suffer in childhood. But scratch the surface and it just the same, even worse, in many geek groups. One need only see the backlash against a recent Miss America contestant who claimed to be a "history geek" - she was of course torn to shreds for being too pretty to be a geek, a poser, trying to cash in on geeks being "in" etc etc.

Or:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdmbwpfJA11qkpz0fo7_1280.jpg



Oh, and her glasses do have lenses in them (http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/246041-idiot-nerd-girl) so...


Anyways, DC comics, despite being one of the worst offenders in terms of driving women away (google Batgirl at the 2011 SDCC DC panel - she questioned why there were so few girls in the DC lineup and got booed by the audience and heckled by the writers), seems to be catching on at least (http://www.shopdcentertainment.com/product/superman+fake+nerd+adult+tshirt+smtvtfakea.do?sort by=ourPicks&from=Search):

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsalliance.com/media/2012/11/smtvtfakea-w1000.jpg





Your sarcasm wasn't unnoticed. In fact I kind of enjoyed it, and I enjoy this discussion. I like it when a person has the constitution to trade a few friendly jibes with me. I'm a big boy, and I gots ams thick skins.

No probs - I mean you're still totally wrong but whatevs ;)

[eldargal]

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/246/041/7ff.jpg
I really don't think you can say with any certainty that her hair looks dyed from this and I really don't see any issue with her skin.

There is no such thing as a true or proper geek/nerd. There are no rules of behaviour. You cannot tell someones level of geekiness from their appearance. You have no right to question anyone's geek cred. This whole thing is based primarily on snobbery and misogyny.

[DarkLink]

I knew a guy who looked more like a biker dude than anything else, who served in both the Army and the Marine Corps, who cussed and all that, who also happened to play 40k and was generally a nerd.

Handwaving judgement based on looks with an excuse as weak as "well, everyone does it" is a poor excuse.

[MaltonNecromancer]

This whole thing is based primarily on snobbery and misogyny.

This +1.


Handwaving judgement based on looks with an excuse as weak as "well, everyone does it" is a poor excuse.

This +1. I will freely admit to judging other people on their appearances, but I'll keep it to myself, and I won't act on those prejudices, because I recognise that they are prejudices, and therefore are completely unreliable for forming a reasonable, civilised opinion.

Any time I hear the whole "everyone does it" argumentum ad populum, I remind you that many people think 40K isn't an appropriate hobby for a grown man. Doesn't mean I'm going to listen to them. Everyone may do it, but acting upon thoughts and emotions remains a choice.


I really don't think you can say with any certainty that her hair looks dyed

I went grey at 15, so I've always dyed my hair. Does that mean I'm not a geek? Because I've got a house full of plastic crap that says otherwise. Seriously, is dyeing your hair / having pride in your appearance / looking attractive for your partner a bad thing now?

As a final note, there's an excellent article about how the whole thing is basically just about men hating women and being unable to admit it:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-7-most-ridiculous-things-about-calling-out-fake-fangirls/

[eldargal]

That Cracked article really is good.
http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/7/5/3/155753_v1.jpg

"Whore" is used throughout comics and gaming fandom, but even to the most sexist mind it's a backfiring insult. Because the guy is admitting that she has something valuable while he can't even give his away. And if women are whores for dressing up as female comics characters, what would that make the people who created those costumes and sent them out to make money?

Read more: http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-7-most-ridiculous-things-about-calling-out-fake-fangirls_p2/#ixzz2EcshNT1E

[Psychosplodge]

Fighting against fake geeks is like fighting against unicorns: You’re an arsehole, and even if they were real, your stated goal is trying to kill something wonderful.

Best quote ever?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Ahhhhh. Nerds.

If I heard nerds making those kinds of comments to girls (or anyone else) then I would probably destroy them. One by one.

[Wolfshade]

I realise that I do not understand fashion. What is geek chic? I hate my glasses and if I had a spare couple of grand I would get laser eyes in an heart beat, then people are weaing empty frames or plain glass for the way they look? The look like my grandfather who has been wearing thick rimmed black glasses since the 50s.

But on the issue of fake people or wannabies they occur all over, it's like the one rock club I go to in Birmingham, the first couple of weeks of university term it has groups of girls all dressed up like Avril Lavigne (or some other "rock chick") they try so hard to dress right and fit in that they don't, or at least visually. It is a very friendly club. People sometimes need to find something to associate with, traditionally the geek/nerds have been the anti this as people are who they are without trying to pretend and now they are being emulated.

Fashion it's all crazy!

[Psychosplodge]

There's nowt wrong with a bit of Avril... she's just not a good example of what to wear lol.

[MaltonNecromancer]

the first couple of weeks of university term it has groups of girls all dressed up like Avril Lavigne (or some other "rock chick") they try so hard to dress right and fit in that they don't... Fashion it's all crazy!

"Not fitting in" in a rock club: contradiction in terms much? A rock night with a dress code (official or else enforced through sneering looks) ISN'T A ROCK NIGHT. And that, my friend, is an empirically provable fact. When I was growing up, rock clubs were where you went to wear whatever you liked.

For my 21st birthday (waaaaaaay back in 1999), we all went out to the Corp rock/metal/goth night in fancy dress. Which is to say evening gowns for the ladies, and gentlemen's suit and tie attire for the men. We drank harder, danced harder, and rocked harder than every damn torn-jeans-and-leather-waistcoat windmiller and long-haired Maiden fan in the place, and we did it in Armani.

A friend of mine was once told off by a goth for smiling while dancing to Sisters of Mercy. This was a mistake. For the rest of the night, whenever they (or any goth music came on), my team and I conducted a dance floor invasion, and proceeded to do The Monkey, The Twist, and the Bo-biddley with huge smiles on our faces until the goth music went off, whereupon regular moshing was resumed.

In principle, metal nights are where conformity stops, and I feel deep disappointment if that is no longer the case. Which it is if people are accused of "dressing wrong". Trying too hard, I'll accept, definitely - there's always that one goth guy who dresses as The Crow - but never doing it "wrong".

Sometimes I miss Corp quite badly.

[DarkLink]

Best quote ever?

Add in "assuming attractiveness equals sluttiness is misogynistic douchebaggery at its finest" and yes.

[Wolfshade]

Another person who has been to corp, my my, unless there is more than one it is an increasingly small world.

What I meant by not fitting in was more of a value judgement on how they fitted in rather than what they looked like. Indeed I have worn suits to night before now, I've danced to vnv in blue jeans and a white t-shirt. It is akin to spotting a emo girl amongst a group of goths, they may look similar but looking similar isn't the same as quite fitting in. It is hard to explain, but they just looked out of place despite trying to fit in.

[Deadlift]

Either way, there's no denying the lass in the pick is quite cute.

[Psychosplodge]

Another person who has been to corp, my my, unless there is more than one it is an increasingly small world.



Yes but in 1999 it was probably the original corp on bank street...
Yeah I've done it in a suit too, it's still awesome.
I would think it's more as you can see them trying, rather than just coming as they want. While it's nothing to snub/criticise, it generally is noticeable...

[Wolfshade]

I would think it's more as you can see them trying, rather than just coming as they want. While it's nothing to snub/criticise, it generally is noticeable...

That is what I was trying to articulate, but failing misrably to do so.

[Psychosplodge]

It's ok, you normally manage to do that for me lol :D

[Psychosplodge]

Ok someone tell me they're trying to be funny?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me8by2ZwcJ1r834mfo1_500.jpg

[eldargal]

Ha, teh lulz.

[Uncle Nutsy]

Been busy with life/trying to fight everyone as Tau in Purgation of Kaurava...

It's pretty easy to tell if a person's hair has been dyed. My entire family has dyed their hair quite a lot so it got to the point where I could tell how long it's been since the last dye job.


I meant specifically juding her geekyness on looks, when you decried a person for judging you on the same matter over something equally trivial.

wait how is being annoyed at someone's nerd superiority equivalent to judging someone on geeky looks?



which is saying there's a standard. so no standard is a standard? really? So the lack of something is the equivalent of something? Can I also get oxygen out of a vaccuum?


It really boggles the mind that you're saying she seems off because of her skin tone. Not just skin tone. There's other traits there that seemed to not click.

Those supposed real glasses look like they're props. If you look closely at someone who's wearing glasses, you can see some details that aren't there. like if the lenses are coated, you'd see a green or a purple tinge to the reflected light. True, some lenses aren't coated but you can still tell they're actual lenses. Also, the face would be either enlarged or reduced in the frame, depending on type of lens used. It makes me ask, "Why do you need to wear something that looks fake? It diminishes you..."

ah well, I just wish that more people would say 'screw image' and just be what they really are. Is that too much to ask from the world, for a person to be true to each other without having to worry about the bull**** they see in the magazines? Like Wolfshade and Psychosplodge here. They get it.

[Nabterayl]

It makes me ask, "Why do you need to wear something that looks fake? It diminishes you..."

ah well, I just wish that more people would say 'screw image' and just be what they really are. Is that too much to ask from the world, for a person to be true to each other without having to worry about the bull**** they see in the magazines? Like Wolfshade and Psychosplodge here. They get it.
Nutsy, I'm a little confused here. You're aware that "fake geek girl" is interpreted by many (including Gotthammer, it seems; certainly myself) as inherently pejorative? A "fake geek girl" in this sense is not a girl who is not a geek, nor a girl pretending to be a geek, nor even a girl pretending to be a geek in order to be cool, but a girl pretending to be a geek to receive sexual attention without a concomitant interest in her admirers. She isn't merely a fake, and she isn't even just a flirt; she's a low-level sexual predator.

I can't tell if you're saying that the girl in question (or girls like her) are "fake geek girls" in this sense, that you can't imagine a positive reason for somebody to dress like something they're not, or merely that you can but feel comfortable condemning people because they probably are dressing like something they're not for negative, rather than positive, reasons. But ... all three seem like curiously bigoted positions for you to take, and you don't seem to think you're taking a negative position. Can you clarify?

[Emerald Rose Widow]

so no standard is a standard? really? So the lack of something is the equivalent of something? Can I also get oxygen out of a vaccuum?


I think the point Gott was trying to make was that by saying the phrase "real geeks dont advertize that they are geeks (paraphrasing here)" you are setting up a standard. ie there are some who are real geeks and some that are not, and this is what determines whether they are or aren't. That is a standard, plain and simple.

Also your statements that geeks are still treated poorly is only slightly true, mainly due to societal changes. Many people can say they are a geek/nerd when talking about their hobbies and not expect to be derided, because most people get into many forms of gaming or other "nerd things" these days.

[eldargal]

Not just skin tone. There's other traits there that seemed to not click.
But you are still claiming to be able to judge someones taste in fiction, video games, television etc. based on a single picture. If you can't see how ridiculous that is I don't know what else to say.

The standard Gotthammer is referring to is the standard you are setting when you say things like 'real geeks don't let the world know they are geeks'. You are holding them to a standard which is completely arbitrary. If geeks really acted that way there would be no merchandise, you wouldn't see people wearing Star Wars t-shirts or cosplaying or going to conventions even because all of those things are broadcasting your geekiness in some form or other.
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6889107456/h4288CFD1/

[White Tiger88]

Why can't we all just stick to the "OMG SHE IS HOT LETS BE AFRAID OF HER" idea till it is known if its a Geek or a Bimbo?

[Necron2.0]

I've come late to the party, and I'm not going through all 11 pages of this, but ... do you see this chick:

http://www.hedylamarr.com/images/slider/3.jpg

She invented frequency skipping technology for radio guided torpedoes during WWII that is now standard in every cellphone.

When I was in college the president of the local ACM (that's Association for Computing Machines) was a bronze blonde goddess who was a 4.0 student in Computer Science and Engineering. Note, CSE is a mixed bag of computer languages and (mostly) electrical engineering and circuit design. It is not merely CS.

In my current job the technical lead is this gorgeous Nordic-type supermodel. In 20 years she is probably the most organized and capable engineer I have ever met.

The point? There is no geek uniform.

[Wildeybeast]

I want to work where you do.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Seconded...

[Gotthammer]

It's pretty easy to tell if a person's hair has been dyed. My entire family has dyed their hair quite a lot so it got to the point where I could tell how long it's been since the last dye job.

Still, so what? I've got a friend who's been dying her hair since she was in her early 20s because she started going grey then. Or even if she hadn't - so what?



wait how is being annoyed at someone's nerd superiority equivalent to judging someone on geeky looks?

Because you're proclaiming nerd superiority and acting as judge of what makes a geek - just like that guy you talked about was judging what makes a wargamer based on your games.



so no standard is a standard? really? So the lack of something is the equivalent of something? Can I also get oxygen out of a vaccuum?


These two posts sum it up very nicely.



I think the point Gott was trying to make was that by saying the phrase "real geeks dont advertize that they are geeks (paraphrasing here)" you are setting up a standard. ie there are some who are real geeks and some that are not, and this is what determines whether they are or aren't. That is a standard, plain and simple.


The standard Gotthammer is referring to is the standard you are setting when you say things like 'real geeks don't let the world know they are geeks'. You are holding them to a standard which is completely arbitrary.




Those supposed real glasses look like they're props. If you look closely at someone who's wearing glasses, you can see some details that aren't there. like if the lenses are coated, you'd see a green or a purple tinge to the reflected light. True, some lenses aren't coated but you can still tell they're actual lenses. Also, the face would be either enlarged or reduced in the frame, depending on type of lens used.

Given you initially claimed they didn't have lenses, now it's arguing they arent' real lenses... I've got to say you're really reaching here. And again, even if they are fake, how does that equate to her not being a geek?




It makes me ask, "Why do you need to wear something that looks fake? It diminishes you..."

ah well, I just wish that more people would say 'screw image' and just be what they really are. Is that too much to ask from the world, for a person to be true to each other without having to worry about the bull**** they see in the magazines? Like Wolfshade and Psychosplodge here. They get it.

Given your entire argument is based on people conforming to a certain image and acting to a stereotype, and calling people fake for not conforming to your preconception, I should make some witty comment here about looking in the mirror or something.
And maybe she's a geek who likes wearing big glasses even though she doesn't need to, and that's who she is and screw whatever image nerds are supposed to have.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Madre de dio...

[Gotthammer]

¿Qué?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

An expression of exhaustion.

[dark messenger]

As much as I like a spirited discussion, I must say is there really a need for such aggro here?
I don't know about you others but I come here to get away from all the stress and aggressive confrontation of my life. As someone famous once said "Can't we all just get along?"

To add to this thread's OP;

Just yesterday I went with a friend to visit my local game club. The club was hosting an open evening to show new and would-be players just what fun things were available.
My friend is a good looking woman, she's open and friendly and willing to give many things a go. She even joins in with our D&D group when she can - but after a mere 15 minutes she wanted to leave, saying (and I quote) "Sorry 'bout that, just didn't feel very welcome. The looks I was getting were very uncomfortable or very cold."

I don't understand why this happens so often?
I can understand that a fair few gamers are a little shy and occasionally immature, especially around pretty women. But I would've thought that they'd welcome a few female gamers - fake or not?
Perhaps I just have a very skewed view of the world.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

As much as I like a spirited discussion, I must say is there really a need for such aggro here?
I don't know about you others but I come here to get away from all the stress and aggressive confrontation of my life. As someone famous once said "Can't we all just get along?"



This +1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.

[Gotthammer]

An expression of exhaustion.

What's so exhausting?

And, no, we can't all get along because some of us are treated as second class citizens and those issues won't go away unless we talk about them. The geek community has to olong hidden this behaviour away and been allowed to do it because it disguised it under the behaviour of being outcasts so geeks couldn't be intollerant or exclusionary. One need only look at comics to see how that's working out.
This may be relatively small potatoes compared to some issues, but it's still an issue and the discussion - whilst we don't all agree - has been civil and I see no agro.
I'm not going to sugarcoat my responses or tiptoe around expressing my opinion simply to "play nice" and pretend everything's fine. If someone has a specific complaint or feels I've been agressive about something specific they can just come out and say it, or use the report button and let the mods take some official action.

If the discussion is too hard for people, or you don't like the topic, they don't have to read it - there's no need to constantly interject with the written equivalent of sighing loudly and rolling your eyes because you don't like the topic. I don't go into list threads and go "ugh" and when questioned WTF say "another list thread, so boring". It's simply rude and adds nothing.
As I said before, if you're a mod and you do have to read it, lock the thread if it's breaking rules, post using your mod voice if people need warnings, otherwise there's no need to say anything.

[Kirsten]

I am a fake geek girl, I only paint ironically.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

What's so exhausting?

\/ - Reading this type of post... All the time... - \/


And, no, we can't all get along because some of us are treated as second class citizens and those issues won't go away unless we talk about them. This may be relatively small potatoes compared to some issues, but it's still an issue and the discussion - whilst we don't all agree - has been civil and I see no agro.
I'm not going to sugarcoat my responses or tiptoe around expressing my opinion simply to "play nice" and pretend everything's fine.

If the discussion is too hard for people, they don't have to read it - there's no need to constantly interject with the written equivalent of sighing loudly and rolling your eyes simply because you don't like the topic. It's simply rude and adds nothing.
As I said before, if you're a mod and you do have to read it, lock the thread if it's breaking rules, post using your mod voice if people need warnings, otherwise there's no need to say anything.

[Gotthammer]

Welcome to being a mod - it's why i never put my hand up when they ask for volunteers - been there, done that as they say ;)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

...

[DarkLink]

As someone famous once said "Can't we all just get along?"

That's exactly the crutch of the issue. Why does it matter if a cute girl wants to hang out with nerds, even if she doesn't look like a nerd herself? And for some people, fake glasses are a thing, they're not wearing them to be a poser they just like the look of glasses. Same thing with dyed hair. Don't judge.

[Nabterayl]

I don't understand why this happens so often?
I can understand that a fair few gamers are a little shy and occasionally immature, especially around pretty women. But I would've thought that they'd welcome a few female gamers - fake or not?
Perhaps I just have a very skewed view of the world.

I think it's because, consciously or not, too many geeks view attempts to participate in their hobbies as inherently hostile acts. That's a really noxious worldview, destructive to the holder as well as to others, which is why we're still talking about this.

[Houghten]

Madre de dio...

¡Es el pollo diablo!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

¡Es el pollo diablo!

Hahahaha!

[Kirsten]

pollo diablo sounds like a delicious pizza to me

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Not to me! I don't want a Demon Chicken Pizza...

[Kirsten]

I do

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Fair...

[dark messenger]

I'd like a slice. I love infernal foods :D
The spicier and more forbidden, the better. Pass the hot sauce?

[eldargal]

I think it's because, consciously or not, too many geeks view attempts to participate in their hobbies as inherently hostile acts. That's a really noxious worldview, destructive to the holder as well as to others, which is why we're still talking about this.
This.

It is very easy to say 'can't we just all get alone' when you aren't the one dealing with constant derision and persecution in some cases. From Idiot/Fake Nerd Girl to Guy In Real Life geek culture is just full of ways to make girls/women uncomfortable at best and subject to outright hostility at worst.


I do

Me too, sounds tasty.

[eldargal]

Just going to leave this here:

Meet Julia Childress - Starcraft II eSports Pro (http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/214139)
http://www.team-dignitas.net/uploads/tinymce/images/julia_3.jpg

[Deadlift]

I'd like a slice. I love infernal foods :D
The spicier and more forbidden, the better. Pass the hot sauce?

I'm with you on this one buddy, if my curry doesn't make my ring sting the next day, it wasn't hot enough ;)

[Brakkart]

Interesting thread to read through. Can't say I've ever encountered this myself, but I did find this on the net so thought I'd chuck it in here for good measure as it seemed fitting:

http://www.dorktower.com/files/2012/12/DorkTower1118a.gif

[Deadlift]

Lol nice one Brakkart.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I don't discriminate against anyone for anything they do in their life, and as such I expect the same treatment.

However, as a race, we are quite spiteful people... :/

[Nabterayl]

Just going to leave this here:

Meet Julia Childress - Starcraft II eSports Pro (http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/214139)
http://www.team-dignitas.net/uploads/tinymce/images/julia_3.jpg

I note that, if that woman died her hair black and wore fake glasses and wrote "nerd" on her hand with a dopey expression for a Facebook pic, she'd be faking something, but it wouldn't be her geekhood.

[White Tiger88]

But...shes.... Gorgeous....brain... Imploding..........Wait... sc2 and she isnt Korean?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Oh dear....

[White Tiger88]

Oh dear....

Admit it your brain is bursting atm too at this picture she posted.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

While she is pretty, I've slept with better...

Plus, she hasn't got a scratch on EldarGal. :)

[White Tiger88]

While she is pretty, I've slept with better...

Plus, she hasn't got a scratch on EldarGal. :)

Dear god i demand proof of the slept with better and as for Eldargal i am waiting for her to post "Liez" so we all get a laugh....then for it to go horribly wrong and so on........I think the wine i have drunk all night has taken control....are 2 pients,4 glasses of 15% wine bad to drink in 3 - 5 hours for someone around 150 pounds? (tops)


oh and before i forget we need a Girls of BOLS calander.....Eldargal, Kristen + ?????? (think of the money that could be raised for charity.....)

[Psychosplodge]

Just going to leave this here:

Meet Julia Childress - Starcraft II eSports Pro (http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/214139)
http://www.team-dignitas.net/uploads/tinymce/images/julia_3.jpg


But....Wait... sc2 and she isnt Korean?

beat me to it...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

As if I have pictures? "sorry love, in our deeply intimate moment, could I take some snaps for proof later on?"
Even if I did, you would never see them. There's this thing called privacy, and it should be respected.

I'm not claiming that I have slept with EldarGal, otherwise I would be lying...

[White Tiger88]

As if I have pictures? "sorry love, in our deeply intimate moment, could I take some snaps for proof later on?"
Even if I did, you would never see them. There's this thing called privacy, and it should be respected.

I'm not claiming that I have slept with EldarGal, otherwise I would be lying...


I leave the rest of this argument for the night to Psycho and friends well i go to sleep in order to face an evil test in the morning.......and hangover,

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Have fun.

[Psychosplodge]

Argument? I don't care who TDA sleeps with...

[White Tiger88]

Argument? I don't care who TDA sleeps with...

But.......the invisible people need help! >:D (oh i know im going to get burnt bad for this)

[Psychosplodge]

But.......the invisible people need help! >:D (oh i know im going to get burnt bad for this)

it's too early for such nonsense...

[White Tiger88]

it's too early for such nonsense...

its 1 AM and i have drank a bottle of wine + 2 beers so...ok you have a point i bow to the pony master this one time.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Argument? I don't care who TDA sleeps with...

Unless it is you, yeah? Kinky.

[Psychosplodge]

O_O

You wouldn't make it that far :D

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

You are such a tease.

[DrLove42]

If i can interupt this little love den of iniquity.

I saw this and felt it relevant

http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Dave/comicilovegeekyboys.png

[Psychosplodge]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdi559Qq8g1qe81xdo1_500.jpg

[DrLove42]

Is that a Stealth Pony?

[Psychosplodge]

Whatever makes you say that?:D

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Hmmmm.... Surprise Pony....

[Psychosplodge]

feel free to go request more form the artist (http://jakeadorkableenglish.tumblr.com/), she loves human pony requests, yet for some reason always thinks they're from me...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I will not be doing this. Ponies...

[Psychosplodge]

lol, but it's nearly xmas...

[DrLove42]

Maybe we should give the artist a pic of TDA and see if she'll do it the other way, and pony-fy a human?

[Psychosplodge]

lol, that would be amusing...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

No....

[MaltonNecromancer]

But...shes.... Gorgeous....brain... Imploding

Really? You've never seen a pretty girl play games well before? I suggest that any man who reacts that way reveals more about his own small reference pools than he does about the true nature of the world. Which I suggest is where the Fake Geek Girl really comes from.

The true core assumption is that "real" geek girls are ugly. They'd certainly never pull dopey faces, because they're all joyless too. And because a thousand other men with similarly limited experiences all chime in "Yeah!", somehow we get the whole stupid idea of "Fake Geek Girl".

Honestly, the whole thing is based so obviously on blatant aesthetic prejudice derived from very limited personal experience, I have no idea how anyone can defend it.

[Nabterayl]

Really? You've never seen a pretty girl play games well before? I suggest that any man who reacts that way reveals more about his own small reference pools than he does about the true nature of the world. Which I suggest is where the Fake Geek Girl really comes from.

The true core assumption is that "real" geek girls are ugly. They'd certainly never pull dopey faces, because they're all joyless too.

Honestly, the whole thing is based so obviously on blatant aesthetic prejudice derived from very limited personal experience, I have no idea how anyone can defend it.
I can't tell if White Tiger was being ironic or not, but either way, +1 this post. Also don't forget that "real" geek girls don't even like, want, or know how to be attractive. :rolleyes:

[DarkLink]

Next time I see at the flgs, I'm gonna tell Liz that she's either not attractive, or not a nerd. Pick one.

[Denzark]

Didn't think she was that hot. And the ability to do lots of actions in a minute doth not a genius make either.

[Nabterayl]

No, but it's certainly a better indication of geekiness (as are the contents of her walls) than her looks.

[scadugenga]

Sweet bloody Jesus, is this "debate" still going on?

Though at least it's not the effing frothing-at-the-mouth morons on either side of the gun control issue screaming at each other across the Internet post-tragedy.

[eldargal]

It is going to keep going until people stop treating geek girls terribly just because of their own feelings of inadequacy.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Fair... But I don't discriminate against female gamers... You're a gamer, and some of my closest female friends are gamers.

[scadugenga]

It is going to keep going until people stop treating geek girls terribly just because of their own feelings of inadequacy.

I'm not talking about "the Cause" :rolleyes:

I just meant here. On the Lounge.

Where I'm not even sure there are any lines drawn in the sand on the issue...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Indeed, I think there is a one sided war being fought here.

"We demand to be treated as equals"
"We are treating you as equals"
"We demand to be treated as equals"
"Ummmmm...... Okay....."

[White Tiger88]

Indeed, I think there is a one sided war being fought here.

"We demand to be treated as equals"
"We are treating you as equals"
"We demand to be treated as equals"
"Ummmmm...... Okay....."

For once i have to agree with you.......

[Uncle Nutsy]

And again, even if they are fake, how does that equate to her not being a geek?

have you met a geek that cares about image to the point of being neurotic about it? I sure haven't. And if you have, you've met a closet geek. Someone who tries to hide who they are to fit in. And those people aren't nice people to be around.


Still, so what? I've got a friend who's been dying her hair since she was in her early 20s because she started going grey then. Or even if she hadn't - so what?

because it says "I hate my hair color, I hate myself".

and it would suck if your hair started going grey when you're twenty.


Given you initially claimed they didn't have lenses, now it's arguing they arent' real lenses. cmon, you going to try and play the semantics game? I can see right through that.


Given your entire argument is based on people conforming to a certain image and acting to a stereotype, and calling people fake for not conforming to your preconception, I should make some witty comment here about looking in the mirror or something.

Is this the 'the lack of a standard is a standard' again? by very definition the lack of something means it doesn't exist.

Geeks like themselves, even if they're in the dumps a lot.

Truth is.. we all judge. we all make assumptions. We ALL base our opinions on looks first. If you say you don't, you're lying to yourself and us. It's just part of being... human. This isn't stuff I'm pulling out of my rear. It's years of experience. And some of it I've learned the hard way.

[DarkLink]

have you met a geek that cares about image to the point of being neurotic about it? I sure haven't. And if you have, you've met a closet geek. Someone who tries to hide who they are to fit in. And those people aren't nice people to be around.

Way to make sweeping, judgmental generalizations.




because it says "I hate my hair color, I hate myself".

No, it doesn't. It says "I like having X colored hair". Why are you so obsessed with this? Some people like dyed hair. Some people like odd style choices like fake glasses. Some people like looking different. You don't have to like the unaltered natural version of yourself, or at least it doesn't have to be your favorite look. Just because someone is not self-conscious about their natural physical appearance doesn't mean that nice clothes, losing some weight, and a good haircut would make them look better.

Besides, do you shave? Why? Does that mean you're insecure about your hair? You hate the fact that you're hairy, don't you. You must really hate yourself for that. So just like the girl dyes her hair, you shave because you're insecure, right? Reductio ad absurdum.



cmon, you going to try and play the semantics game? I can see right through that.

Dude, you're the one who seemed obsessed with random superficial details. If you want to be convinced that those are fake glasses, go right ahead. It's really not relevant to the character of the individual in the picture.



Truth is.. we all judge. we all make assumptions.

And why do you think this is an excuse for someone to act like a misogynistic douchebag? Your whole argument here makes absolutely no sense. Via your argument, racism is perfectly acceptable. In fact, the idea that "we all do it a little" opens up pretty much any behavior as acceptable, from theft to murder to whatever else you want to imagine. If someone out there's done it before, if you've even considered it before, suddenly it's acceptable behavior. Why are you defending such a messed up ideal?

Besides, the "we all do it" occurs for reasons irrelevant to your argument. It's only natural that you treat people based on what you know about them, and if all you know about them is their appearance and maybe a few words then that will influence how you treat them. But again, acting like a sexist ******* just because your little sub-culture has deemed attractive females an acceptable target does not stop those actions from being those of a sexist *******. Not acting like an ******* because of a person's appearance is always the right thing to do, even if sometimes people slip up. Why is that so hard to understand?

[eldargal]

Indeed, I think there is a one sided war being fought here.

"We demand to be treated as equals"
"We are treating you as equals"
"We demand to be treated as equals"
"Ummmmm...... Okay....."

That isn't what is happening here at all. We are debating and discussing an issue that affects just under half of the gaming community. That there is little bias against girl gamers on BoLS doesn't mean we can't discuss it because it is rife elsewhere. The sort of behaviour we are talking about is something I see often and it was daily back when I played multiplayer games more. It still happens on other forums that shall remain nameless quite a bit.

[Nabterayl]

Can someone enlighten me as to what Nutsy's argument even is? It seems to have been lost in the woods here, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't mean to say, "Geeks don't dye their hair or wear fake glasses; ergo, those who dye their hair or wear fake glasses in the presence of geeks are attempting to infiltrate their community for nefarious purposes; ergo, geeks are justified in ostracizing those who dye their hair or wear fake glasses."

Though, I gotta say man, that's what it wounds like you're saying.

[Gotthammer]

Whilst DarkLink covered most of what I'd say, I'll just add that I am both extremely neurotic about my appearance and often hate myself - but that's due to bipolar and other issues - so much that I sometimes become physically ill looking at myself in the mirror if I'm not perfect. But that has, wait for it, absolutely nothing to do with how geeky I am.
Also you haven't met a wide variety of people if you think geeks are all happy with themselves, or none take pride in their appearance. And I certainly don't dress to fit in either.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I don't even...

[Denzark]

I think we should explore more where somebody reckons the 'fake geek girl' is accused of being a 'low level sexual predator'. I thought the whole fake geek girl was what we used to call a swot (ie uber brainy) trying to fit it with a niche of geek - because it is slightly more edgy and cool than just being clever.

Or possibly a non-geek trying to fit in with her good friend's geek mates by trying too hard.

The idea that some of them want to induce a cocck-stand amongst geeks implies to me that they are just attention seekers whose target audience is a bit niche. And when it comes to comicons or expos whatever, they can dress more slaggy than they could walking down the highstreet.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

have you met a geek that cares about image to the point of being neurotic about it? I sure haven't. And if you have, you've met a closet geek. Someone who tries to hide who they are to fit in. And those people aren't nice people to be around.



because it says "I hate my hair color, I hate myself".

and it would suck if your hair started going grey when you're twenty.

cmon, you going to try and play the semantics game? I can see right through that.



Is this the 'the lack of a standard is a standard' again? by very definition the lack of something means it doesn't exist.

Geeks like themselves, even if they're in the dumps a lot.

Truth is.. we all judge. we all make assumptions. We ALL base our opinions on looks first. If you say you don't, you're lying to yourself and us. It's just part of being... human. This isn't stuff I'm pulling out of my rear. It's years of experience. And some of it I've learned the hard way.

ok, seriously? now you are just trolling. Literally none of this has made any sense, are you just trying to start a flame war at this point?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Flame? War? Flames of War?

I don't care for it much myself, but y'know, to each their own. :D

[Denzark]

Flame? War? Flames of War?

I don't care for it much myself, but y'know, to each their own. :D

Fake Geek Boy you!

[Kirsten]

I haven't read much of this thread, it seems to make very little sense, why are people trying to decide whether or not other people are geeks or not? who cares about labels? not sure what dying your hair has to do with anything, my hair was bright cerise for a year, then neon blue for six months until I lost my job, now I am waiting to see what job I get next and whether or not it is allowable. It has nothing whatsoever to do with how I perceive myself or how I spend my leisure time.

[Psychosplodge]

It's to do with a comic artists rant about sexually predatory fake geek females, who only go to cons for attention...

[eldargal]

I haven't read much of this thread, it seems to make very little sense, why are people trying to decide whether or not other people are geeks or not? who cares about labels? not sure what dying your hair has to do with anything, my hair was bright cerise for a year, then neon blue for six months until I lost my job, now I am waiting to see what job I get next and whether or not it is allowable. It has nothing whatsoever to do with how I perceive myself or how I spend my leisure time.
That is basically the point. Some people are trying to set certain standards against which any female claiming to be a geek or showing any interest in geeky things is judged. Fall short and you are 'faking it' for nefarious purposes. So if you posted a picture of yourself holding a Space Marine tank or something you could have people poring over every aspect of your appearance and deciding that you are faking your interest in 40k simply because you don't meet some arbitrary standard of geek behaviour. Like not dying your hair. This thread is debating the whole 'fake geek girl' and why it is so bloody stupid.

[Kirsten]

it seems to me that it is better than it used to be, when I first started using forums I never let on that I was female just because you could end up with half a dozen people falling over themselves to agree with you regardless f what you actually said, all I wanted to do was post photos of tanks.

[Psychosplodge]

Yeah true that

:D

Doesn't that still happen on most the internet?

[eldargal]

It is much better than it used to be, which is probably why these issues are being debated so much it. It used to be that you just put up with being anonymous or accepted you would get lots of attention, much negative, much creepy. Now people are waking up to the fact that it is unacceptable and that both fans and companies have to wake up to the factthat females are sizeable portion of their demographic and are entitled to voicing their opinions on it. Without being called whores and told to get back to the kitchen.

[Kirsten]

it can be bad still, certain types of site are worse than others, but the hobby community is getting better.

Exactly EG, all I want to do here by and large is post photos of what I am working on and get feedback from people, I tend to avoid personal photos anywhere, avatars etc. because it simply isn't relevant. I have never been asked to prove my gender, probably because I leave it out as much as possible as it has no relation to my hobby, but I would have no intention of doing so anyway, because I have no need to pander to someone. Warseer was pretty bad when I joined there years ago, a female gamer could make a post, it could be total nonsense, and a page of comments would follow agreeing completely, then someone would get offended by the behaviour and blame the woman, not the other posters, and it would all go round again

[Mr Mystery]

I can sum up my opinion with the following.

Are there fake geek girls? DFK. DFC.

If someone wants to engage with me, I'll engage with them. If it leads to flirting, it leads to flirting. Everyone goes home happy. Problem therefore lies....erm....no...hold on...I'll spot it in a second....erm.......ok I give. I see no problem here.

Unless the author of the article on the front page (not the OP!) has of course got the hump because, well not to put too fine a point on it, he didn't get the hump

[Psychosplodge]

Indeed, but apparently the meme is based off the article so...

I like the summary though, Got the hump because he didn't...

[eldargal]

Yep, I've only had one incident in the past year or so on hobby forums which isn't bad. When I first signed up to a hobby forum years back my introduction thread exploded into people demanding proof of my gender, people accusing me of being a liar and people seemingly willing to die in my defense. Now no one seems to care overmuch, which is the way it ought to be.

[Kirsten]

yeah I have had no problems on here so far, my leg remains un-humped :P

I did have to leave a forum because of harrassment by a mod who habitually abused his power without any repurcussion at all from the site owner. That is why I ended up coming back here after a year or two away.

[eldargal]

Well maybe if you dyed your skin blue...:p

[Kirsten]

very tempting...

[Mr Mystery]

I feel sorry for the girlies sometimes.

Though you have nowt to fear from me. I'm much too odd to actually chat anyone up. Unless I've been drinking. I'm not as bad as Raj, but I'm not far off.

[Nabterayl]

I think we should explore more where somebody reckons the 'fake geek girl' is accused of being a 'low level sexual predator'. I thought the whole fake geek girl was what we used to call a swot (ie uber brainy) trying to fit it with a niche of geek - because it is slightly more edgy and cool than just being clever.

Or possibly a non-geek trying to fit in with her good friend's geek mates by trying too hard.
I think it's pretty uncontroversial that people like this must exist; I certainly wouldn't argue with it.


The idea that some of them want to induce a cocck-stand amongst geeks implies to me that they are just attention seekers whose target audience is a bit niche. And when it comes to comicons or expos whatever, they can dress more slaggy than they could walking down the highstreet.
The critical thing, I think, is that "fake geek girl" is used as a pejorative. It means something more than "a girl who is not actually a geek;" it means so in some sort of negative way. Since the term is inherently social (i.e., you can't be a "fake geek girl" without being around real geeks) being a "fake geek girl" (assuming there is such a thing, which I still think is false) is thus inherently hostile. But there is no equivalent term for males. So we have a hostile activity that can only be undertaken by women; to me that says (consciously or not) sexual predator who preys on men.

What's offensive thing to me about that, as a geek, is that it implies that sex is somehow part of being a geek, and I've been a geek long enough to know that it's not. Geeks come in all levels of comfort with, experience with, and tastes in sex. The simple fact of the matter is that you can be an attention seeker whose target audience is geeks and still be a real geek. So even if you are an attention seeker whose target audience is geeks, that fact is not probative of your geekiness.

[Kirsten]

the last part there is the important bit really, everyone is different, there are way too many variables to throw labels around. I don't think of myself as a geek, or as not a geek, I just do whatever the hell I like to do, I don't worry about what other people think of it, or of me, nor do I worry about what I am going to call it, that just gets in the way of gaming time.

[Mr Mystery]

To be fair, there are fake geek guys out there

Some call them Hipsters. I call them tossers.

I like being a geek. I've been one my entire life. But now it's 'trendy' I have to put up with Retro ****s who will eventually go back to looking down on us...

[tawelwch]

it can be bad still, certain types of site are worse than others, but the hobby community is getting better.

Exactly EG, all I want to do here by and large is post photos of what I am working on and get feedback from people, I tend to avoid personal photos anywhere, avatars etc. because it simply isn't relevant. I have never been asked to prove my gender, probably because I leave it out as much as possible as it has no relation to my hobby, but I would have no intention of doing so anyway, because I have no need to pander to someone. Warseer was pretty bad when I joined there years ago, a female gamer could make a post, it could be total nonsense, and a page of comments would follow agreeing completely, then someone would get offended by the behaviour and blame the woman, not the other posters, and it would all go round again

You're right gender shouldn't matter at all on these forums.

I think there are bullying problems on Warseer really but I can't definitely say they are gender related or jus gender related.

[eldargal]

the last part there is the important bit really, everyone is different, there are way too many variables to throw labels around. I don't think of myself as a geek, or as not a geek, I just do whatever the hell I like to do, I don't worry about what other people think of it, or of me, nor do I worry about what I am going to call it, that just gets in the way of gaming time.

I only started identifying myself as a 'geek girl' when people started telling me I couldn't be one for various reasons.:rolleyes:

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I've always been a massive geek/nerd/gamer at heart, and that surprises a lot of people who have just met me.

[Kirsten]

I've always been a massive geek

you aren't a real geek girl!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I'M SORRY! I JUST WANT TO FIT IN!

*cries in a corner wearing hipster shades*

[White Tiger88]

you aren't a real geek girl!

Don't Crush is dreams!!!! I have a cousin that went from a Geek guy to Geek Girl!!!


I'M SORRY! I JUST WANT TO FIT IN!

*cries in a corner wearing hipster shades*

There,there its ok tzeentech have a cookie *pats*

[Kirsten]

Don't Crush is dreams!!!! I have a cousin that went from a Geek guy to Geek Girl!!!

on the contrary, that is great, very sensible joining the winning side.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I have someone to be on the winning side for me. :3

[Kirsten]

hold on while I be sick :P

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

See, I have a gushy side. :p

[White Tiger88]

on the contrary, that is great, very sensible joining the winning side.

*palm* We will win one day..........You just have a biological pair of weapons we can't defend against.....


hold on while I be sick :P

Can i join you its so gushy The cool Aid man went "OOOOOH NOOOO"

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Like I give a damn. :p

[Kirsten]

I have a gushy side too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UfsIvwzMeY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I love that version. :p

[Kirsten]

greatest love song ever. there is no truer emotion than the Joker, and Mark Hamil's Joker is one of the all time greatest characters

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I do like Mark Hamil's Joker I must admit, didn't he also voice the cartoon Joker?

[Kirsten]

he did yeah. I would totally get my harley quinn on for a mark hamil joker

[White Tiger88]

he did yeah. I would totally get my harley quinn on for a mark hamil joker

Harley Quinn = sexy

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Harley Quinn = sexy

I am agree with this statement

Mark hammil made an awesome joker

[eldargal]

Agreed, so sad he isn't doing it anymore. He was an awsome Joker. Almost as awesome as:
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt8iaiqazC1qbujox.png

[White Tiger88]

Agreed, so sad he isn't doing it anymore. He was an awsome Joker. Almost as awesome as:
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt8iaiqazC1qbujox.png

As.......a skin tight sexy outfit with a sexy woman in it?

[eldargal]

As Batman the Animated Series Catwoman Arkham City costume.:p

[White Tiger88]

As Batman the Animated Series Catwoman Arkham City costume.:p

Awesome outfit :3

[Psychosplodge]

But she's no Harley Quinn...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

This is a hint!

[eldargal]

But she's no Harley Quinn...

She's better.:p in the Animated Series where she is a blonde anyway...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Who? Catwoman or Harley Quinn? Which is blonde in the animated series?

[Psychosplodge]

She's better.

Nope, as an expert in fancying women I disagree...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Nope, as an expert in fancying women I disagree...

INB4 EG SAYS THE SAME THING.

Hahahaha!

[eldargal]

Who? Catwoman or Harley Quinn? Which is blonde in the animated series?

Both are blonde in the animated series, and Catwoman is better.:p


INB4 EG SAYS THE SAME THING.

Hahahaha!

Drat...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Hahahaha! I know my darling far too well. :p

[Build]

Sorry for the minor threadromancy, plz don't stone, flagulate, beat with the rough side of a sponge, etc... but I found this and thought I'd share.

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr01/2013/1/3/13/enhanced-buzz-22787-1357237601-1.jpg

Take from http://www.buzzfeed.com/hnigatu/why-the-fake-geek-girl-meme-needs-to-die

Enjoy.

[Wolfshade]

See post #99 http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?26415-The-Fake-Geek-Girl&p=267928&viewfull=1#post267928

[Build]

See post #99 http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?26415-The-Fake-Geek-Girl&p=267928&viewfull=1#post267928

Dammit.... Oh well at least the link I found it from has plenty of other good examples.

[Wolfshade]

Exactly :)
Some made me chuckle.

[Psychosplodge]

lols, still funny though...

[eldargal]

Has this one been posted? I hope I didn't post it...
http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr03/2013/1/3/12/enhanced-buzz-24439-1357234017-4.jpg

Also:
http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr01/2013/1/4/12/enhanced-buzz-30216-1357319335-11.jpg

[Psychosplodge]

Love the bottom one :D

[eldargal]

Me too.:)
One thing that really annoys me is when people say things like 'comics and geeky things are aimed at boys, girls are always going to be outsiders so deal with it'. Because doubling your potential customers is bad business...

[Kirsten]

yeah I don't think there is any real truth in girls preferring one thing over another, it is more that people do what they are expected to do and don't really think about it. I have met plenty of women who were quite interested in my GW stuff, I watched the expendables 2 last night, love me some over the top violence. a friend of mine wanted to be a tank driver from the age of 10. it is strange to suggest something is for boys.

[eldargal]

Yup, which makes it so strange that some companies (DC in particular) seem to be actively driving female customers away. GW is really just indifferent. Which is better than the former option.

I recall reading that one company selling traditionally boy-orientated products (Airfix or Hornby maybe, but I really don't remember) simply included pictures of girls using the product as well as boys in their catalogues and saw a significant increase in the number of girls interested in the product. So no change to the core product, no big marketing campaign, just shoving some girls in the photographs.

I've been meaning to watch the Expendables, thanks for reminding me. I like over the top action too, but I find a lot of modern action films really pretentious and silly (not in a good way). I prefer some of the nineties action films.

[Kirsten]

yeah, never really been a comic person personally, though I do love reading the big omnibus collections, it is the weekly/bi weekly/whatever comics I don't get :P
I do love the older action films, things like Under Siege rock.

[eldargal]

I'm new to comics, been buying some (mostly DC, ha) on and off for fourteen months or so. I'm enjoying some more than others, Catwoman has a good story but really over-sexualised art. Batwoman is great though, really beautiful art and a lesbian superheroine to boot.
http://www.atomicbooks.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/a/batwoman0_2.jpg

While not strictly speaking an action film (more of a spy spoof) I actually love True Lies, so over the top and silly but I just think it is hilarious and quite clever. But I also enjoy Under Siege, even Demolition Man and Judge Dredd (so silly and camp it is actually kind of good).

I just found this great tumblr site, Girls love superheroes (http://girlslovesuperheroes.tumblr.com/):
http://i45.tinypic.com/15f4uts.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/ab569058c9df66d2c708fcd6fb640374/tumblr_meljfmT8KT1qclw82o1_r2_500.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdm3lhLRKG1qzanh4o1_500.jpg

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Hahahaha!

[Kirsten]

I am too impatient to read a couple of pages a week or fortnight, but I have read four or five judge dredd omnibuses, and a judge death one, five or six punisher max collections, losers, hundred bullets.

[Mr Mystery]

Always time for Dredd!

Also check out Tank Girl. Film isn't a great representation of the comics!

[eldargal]

God I love that girls Hulk costume...

I'm impatient to, so I tend to put in a big order every few months so I can read a few issues in a row and then move onto the next comic. Ten I just distract myself with other things while I wait for more issues to be published.

[Build]

To add a little mix into this thread I was hoping I could get some advice on this.

Saw this on a T-shirt the other day (minus the logo, bottom right).

http://img.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/double-damage.jpg

Is it wrong that I found this amusing and my hand went for my wallet? >>

[Psychosplodge]

Also check out Tank Girl. Film isn't a great representation of the comics!

The film is still awesome...

[Emerald Rose Widow]

the hulk girl is really frelling cute.