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View Full Version : The Lion and The Wolf. DA and SW in Apocalypse - What is the size of a Great Company



AnthG
10-11-2009, 12:58 PM
I would like the option to play the Lion and the Wolf in Apocalypse games but I am currently struggling with the creation of an Apocalypse list for Space Wolves.

Background

I already have the Lion resolved:- Full 100 models each of the 1st Company, 5th Company and most of the 2nd. Dark Angels come with a nice little Chapter Organisation list with each of the 10 companies of 100 well listed and structured. Easy.

Challenge

Now comes the Space Wolves challenge: 12 Lords. 12 Great Companies. If we are to follow the prescribed fluff a chapter should not contain more than 1000 Marines. My understanding is that servitors and staff don't count, although I am a little unsure about the Tech Marines that drive the tanks -- do they count to the 1000 or not?

Anyway back to the question - what is the size for the Great Companies of each of the Lords? Are the 1000 Marines evenly distributed between them i.e. 83 each or are some Companies larger than others? Is there a pecking order?

Ultimately it's a moot point as I am sure I will be making more that 1 of the Great Companies given the 4 HQ option!

The AKH
10-11-2009, 01:55 PM
It's a well-established background fact that the Wolves don't follow the Codex Astartes. I doubt each Wolf Lord limits himself to 100 followers - especially considering that the Space Wolves weren't broken up at the Second Founding (the Wolf Brothers don't really count :P) I'd say that you wouldn't be far off estimating the numbers of the Wolves closer to the ten thousand or so in the original Legion. There are definitely more than a thousand Space Wolves.

Really, I'd leave the interpretation of the Great Companies' strengths and organization up to you - the only firm fact, IIRC, is that they all follow the leadership of Logan Grimnar and his Great Company (which I recall reading to number around 400?) You could certainly use that figure as a guideline.

The new Space Wolf codex probably has some information in it you'd find useful to your research.

MightyOrang
10-11-2009, 02:31 PM
The SW codex states (in its discussion of the 12 GCs) that Ragnar's company boasts almost 200 Marines. This leads me to think that the # of a 'normal' GC has to be somewhere below that but above a Codex Astartes level of 100.

For that matter, how many Marines - neophytes or otherwise - are in a Black Templars Crusade?

Nabterayl
10-11-2009, 05:13 PM
My understanding is that servitors and staff don't count, although I am a little unsure about the Tech Marines that drive the tanks -- do they count to the 1000 or not?

No, they don't. If you look at the Ultramarines table of organization you'll see that the librarium, the chapter master and staff, and the company commanders and staff, and the armory are all above and beyond the 1000 number.

templar143
10-11-2009, 06:26 PM
The SW codex states (in its discussion of the 12 GCs) that Ragnar's company boasts almost 200 Marines. This leads me to think that the # of a 'normal' GC has to be somewhere below that but above a Codex Astartes level of 100.

For that matter, how many Marines - neophytes or otherwise - are in a Black Templars Crusade?



the way i understand the BT codex a Crusade can be anything from a small squad of BT to the full might of the chapter. the BT have had "problems" with the Inquisition, according to the fluff, because they refuse to reveal their full numbers. So, i would assume SW are as stubborn or worse than BT and probably have well over 1000 marines at their disposal.

DarkLink
10-11-2009, 07:07 PM
I've heard anywhere from 3000-6000 marines in the Black Templar Chapter. They and the Grey Knights just toss out the Codex Astartes (btw, Grey Knights have around 3000 Knights, with no fixed company organization, only a hierarcy of ranks and fixed squads).

About the only constant is that most chapter's companies are typically 100 marines, plus support (like Librarians, Techmarines, etc). Then, some chapters have maybe up to 200 marines per chapter, plus support. So the Space Wolves probably have around 2000 marines, roughly speaking.

Missinglink
10-11-2009, 08:38 PM
In the new Space Wolves Codex, under the Wolf Lord description on page 39 states that they lead a great Company comprising of over a hundred men.
Ragnar's states close to 200 Space Wolvea and his only second in size to Logans. A good start would be a hundred or so Space Wolves for your company.

Work 6 troops squads (mix GH and BC's) depending on the fluff you wish to work with. 60 or so
3 Elites choices. However you want that spread around ( 2 WG and a Scout) so, another 30
remember that Dreads, rune, Wolf and Iron Priests are kept by Logans Company so don't count towards your totals
Fast Attack choices (again what you want to field) anywhere from another15 to 30
Heavy Support depends on what you favor. Lots of Raiders or Preds/Vindies/Whirlwinds etc or one or more Long Fang Squads. So again, anywhere from 0-18 guys

rough total here is upwards of 138 SW. Of course, I haven't added Wolf Lords or Wolf Guard Battle Leaders

Add in transports and you have a rough Great Company structure.

Have fun with it.

person person
10-11-2009, 11:24 PM
This help (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Space_Wolves#The_Great_Companies)

AnthG
10-12-2009, 10:19 AM
Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I have a much richer understanding - looks like I have to buy in slightly more Plastic than I did for the Lion!

Kanaellars
10-12-2009, 11:13 AM
Oh yes. The wolves dont go by that silly little book