The Man with the Master Plan

[dark messenger]

I can't figure this one by myself.

I've done some digging and it looks to me like the Emperor made a huge mistake in his aeons long plan. Humans invariably fail.

He was trying to guide the human race to its ultimate destiny of becoming this psychic "super race" and taking control of the universe (one presumes) making each and every human as potent a being as He was.
But the Emperor was human Himself, the best of humanity, but still... So He must've looked in the mirror (so to speak) and known He was going to fail in this great endeavour?

Was it an oversight? Pure arrogance in that He believed He couldn't fail? Or did He simply not know?

I understand the Chaos Gods played a role in this, clouding His vision or something. But surely a super psyker master race would be a good thing for them and a bad thing for humans? Coz wouldn't they just go the way of the Eldar and get eaten en masse by the denizens of the warp?

I'd appreciate your views on this one :)

[Cpt Codpiece]

the emperor was a fool, and a weakiling! lorgar should have taken the throne when his puppet horus failed :)

but back on topic. i dont think the grand plan was flawed through humanity being weak or the plan being fundamentally flawed.

if magnus had not have broke the golden throne, and instead been placed on it (he was essentially a nimbus of psychic energy given form) then the webway portals would have been secured by the grey knights (when they were formed) and custodes.

mankind would have been relativly safe from the perils of the warp inside the webway (like the D eldar, but without the soul binding to slaanesh), so when they were fully developed as a psychic master race they could emerge triumphant against the powers in the warp.

but alas, on his failure to communicate his will and lorgars masterful spreading of the heretical lectitio divinitatus (early laymans book of lorgar), the imperium has lapsed into a state of decline, all the while feeding the eightfold path with the endless toil and war

[bfmusashi]

The Emperor's drill will pierce the heavens.

[eldargal]

mankind would have been relativly safe from the perils of the warp inside the webway (like the D eldar, but without the soul binding to slaanesh), so when they were fully developed as a psychic master race they could emerge triumphant against the powers in the warp.
And then the harlequins seal the tunnels leading to Terra and humanity is back to square one again.:p The irony of the Emperor's Great Plan was that it was always going to fail in the end.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

A plan never survives contact with the enemy

[Cursed13]

In this topic, I like to play the more radical views. The mistake is to think the Emperor failed at all. It's the greatest lie ever told. The Emperor isn't even a corpse lord on the Golden Throne. The only ones who even know what happened to him after the battle with Horus is his Custodes Captain and Rogal Dorn. Even they are dead now. There's no one left alive to talk of what they may have seen. All that's left is myth and legend. Hardly anything to take as solid proof or evidence of truth.

Consider it, even when the Emperor walked through the Warp unprotected, the four Empyrrean Kings combined could do nothing to him, they didn't even try. If the four powers were going to strike down the Emperor, you would think they would do so in their own domain where they have home field advantage. To think that Horus, merely one of the Emperor's creations, even imbued with the powers of Chaos, could possibly harm the Emperor is ludicrous. The power that is hinted at that the Emperor has makes Horus pale in comparison, and even that is knowledge is extremely limited to our understanding.

But what about the throne room? Do we even know who is allowed into the throne room? Only the Custodes for sure, and they certainly aren't going to tell anyone about the status of the Emperor. Sure there is stories of the Mechanicus saying the Throne is failing, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the Techpriests were permitted into the throne room. More likely all the mechanical and electrical systems are underneath the throne, not in or around the throne, and as such the priests would only need to go under the throne room rather than in it. Of course, we don't know what the throne room is like or how the throne functions or how its constructed, this much is only speculation and conjecture.

How about the Warp Binding? Another thing we really have no understanding of. Perhaps the astrotelepaths enter a chamber that is adjacent to the throne room itself. It's not unreasonable to think that the Emperor in his "corpse state" could still project his abilities to bind the astropaths. Again, more speculation and conjecture.

But what about the state of the Imperium? How could he let it get so bad? How could this possibly be in His plan? Perhaps the Imperium isn't in such a bad state. Who can truly know the Emperor's vision and plan save the Emperor himself? Certainly, the Imperium isn't the ideal that he was looking for, but it's not as bad as it could be. The Imperium is still connected, it still has technology and it can still mobilize to fight and defend itself. The people believe in and worship the Emperor, so that keeps them loyal, for the most part. The Emperor with his great vision saw all the myriad and probable futures, but once the one where Horus betrays him began to fall into place, he knew what he had to do to prevent it from complete collapse and falling into chaos. He did everything he could to create the possible future where the absolute minimum damage was suffered.

So if he's not a corpse and isn't making himself known to the wider Imperium, what exactly is he doing? That, unfortunately, is not for us to know. For the rest of the galaxy, they must believe the Emperor is a carrion lord stuck to the Throne, for whatever purpose this may serve. The Emperor's machinations are complex and take thousands of years to pan out. Whatever he is doing clearly needs his undivided attention and the freedom to move and act as he needs to.

Of course, this is just my crazy theory and interpretation. Enjoy! :D

As for the Harlequins, as much as I love the Eldar (Craftworld Iybraesil represent!), the Emperor would blow them away in a psychic storm of devastation. Even the Harlequins present no match against the Emperor. As unfortunate as that is.

I'm sure someone will try and bring up that Chaos likes to work in a backward manner, setting up plots and schemes and pushing things into action. Maybe that's true and maybe that's what they did with Horus, but they still failed. The Warp Lords know just as well as anyone the myriad futures and possibilities since they can travel to all of them, and knowing what they know they should have taken out the Emperor when he was in the warp. Their daemons still struggle to find paths into the material realm, their champions are still defeated and their daemon lords are still cast back into the warp by the Grey Knights. The best they can hope for is suckling off some of the weaker Human chaff and using them like pawns to help them cross the boundary between our realm and theirs. Hardly what I would call a stunning victory for the Chaos gods.

[ElectricPaladin]

This is an interesting conversation, but I don't think we're ever going to have a final answer. GW is never going to advance their storyline, so we may never know the "truth," or even if there is one.

That said.

I like the idea that Emperor screwed up, but not in any way that is easy to sum up. The Emperor didn't screw up because he did this or that one thing, or had this single bad idea. His idea was sound, his decisions were good. That's what makes the tragedy so beautiful - one of the few truly well-written things in the world of 40k. It was a series of good decisions that led to tragedy because sometimes sh*t happens. There were so many ways it could have gone right: Horus could have swallowed his pride, the Emperor could have listened to Magnus or sent someone less easily manipulated than Russ, or the Lion could have chosen honor over ambition, or, or, or... But none of these things happened. It's not because Chaos manipulated them masterfully - it's because they were ultimately human creatures. Some of them - Sanguinius, Dorn, Manus, and others - chose to rise above their base natures. The traitors didn't, and in that, they doomed the Imperium.

It wasn't Chaos's plan. It was the Primarchs' - and the Emperor's - human failings.

What I think is really interesting is despite the fact that the world of 40k is presented as such a grim (and dark) place, nobody seems to really buy it. Every Eldar clings to the idea that Ynnead will one day rescue the souls of the Eldar and save the world. Imperial players believe that one day the Emperor will rise - or die and become a god, or be replaced, or whatever. Tau players believe that the Greater Good can absorb the Imperium and save everyone.

Well, not everyone. Ork, Necron, Tyranid, and Chaos players? They're just freaks. :D.

The point is, sometimes I wonder if it isn't intentional. Maybe the point is that the world is presented as hopeless so that we can believe? Nevertheless, I really wish they'd advance the story one of these days...

[jgebi]

also with the web way it's fractured so parts are inexscable to the eldar or any race. And didn't it say in one of the books that he was making his own closed of version of the webway... wait what if the 1000 psycers are to help him form his new webway for man?... and as the webway is a living breathing entity like the warp if the eldar did try to break through then they would be expunged as the webways are infact use a genitc code to ID FOF, just my spin but I like the Idea of the emperor still living

[Nabterayl]

His idea was sound, his decisions were good. That's what makes the tragedy so beautiful - one of the few truly well-written things in the world of 40k.

The point is, sometimes I wonder if it isn't intentional. Maybe the point is that the world is presented as hopeless so that we can believe? Nevertheless, I really wish they'd advance the story one of these days...
I think Games Workshop, as a whole, is pretty good at writing mythology. Its writing is at its best when it's creating mythology that explores human failings, which I think is why they find the story of Chaos so compelling. But at the same time, I think the features of the lore that make it good mythology present serious problems when trying to tell stories about the mythology. In terms of serving human needs, all eight of the major human faiths in the lore have severe and obvious deficiencies. All eighteen of the primarchs are incredibly immature. Those are good, desirable things for mythology. They're bad things for storytelling, though.


Well, not everyone. Ork, Necron, Tyranid, and Chaos players? They're just freaks. :D.
Hey hey hey, now. We orks know that the world really isn't a grim place. It's full of fightin', rokkin', lootin', and beer! It only looks bad to you because you need to get your priorities straight ;)

[Cpt Codpiece]

also with the web way it's fractured so parts are inexscable to the eldar or any race. And didn't it say in one of the books that he was making his own closed of version of the webway... wait what if the 1000 psycers are to help him form his new webway for man?... and as the webway is a living breathing entity like the warp if the eldar did try to break through then they would be expunged as the webways are infact use a genitc code to ID FOF, just my spin but I like the Idea of the emperor still living

i got the impression that the webway was not as fractured until magnus forced his way in. thus explaining the emperors visions of harnessing it, and why he was so annoyed wirth magnus.
bear in mind magnus had a guide all of his life in the warp, even so far as to teach his sons how to aquire tutilaries, now what or who was magnus' tutilary? its kind of explained in 1ksons :)

[jgebi]

no the webway was fractured back when the eldar and the necrons were at war as I rember it

[eldargal]

The webway fractured when the Fall occurred.

The emperors ability to blow aside the Harlequins is irrelevent, the webway can both seal itself and be sealed against anyone. If the Emperor could break through the webway seals he wouldn't have to try and build an access tunnel, he could just find the nearest gate to Terra and open it.

[jgebi]

Ok well I got bored so i went and looked it up on the ever helpful lexicanum :D so this is what i found

Much of the Webway was either destroyed or damaged during the Fall of the Eldar. The energies of the Fall is known to had ruptured the hyperspatial pathways of the Webway in countless places. Despite the damage, the Webway still maintains a link between the Craftworlds though portions of it have been breached by the Realm of Chaos and made these parts impassable.

During the Great Crusade, the Emperor created the Golden Throne on Terra as a means of entry into the Webway in order to remove the Imperium's reliance on Warp-ships and astrotelepathy. This plan involved the construction of a new short section into the Webway and linking it into the abandoned Eldar network. After the psychic disturbance caused by the ill-fated attempt of Magnus the Red to warn the Emperor of Horus' betrayal prior to the Horus Heresy, the human-built sections of the Webway were invaded by Warp entities. Since that point a psyker has needed to remain on the Golden Throne and hold the portal between the Webway and realspace.

I think thats enough to make my piont

[dark messenger]

I have no idea about this argument on the webway and don't know enough about the Eldar to really contribute.
What little I do know about them makes me feel that perhaps the Imperium is headed the same way they are except humans aren't quite as psychic as they were when they got eaten. Perhaps that's a good thing?

As an avid imperial player, it would be nice to say "Emperor never made mistakes" and "We shall emerge victorious" but I can't, coz I lack a mind quite that narrow haha.

ElectricPaladin's post got me thinking about how possibly things could have, maybe even should have, been different. I believe that 10k years ago humanity lost its best chance to ascend and get something right for once. It may still be possible now but not without a huge change in the way things are run and the massive sacrifice of much of what remains of the Imperium.
Question is, how is that gonna happen?

That's one of the things I've picked up in reading the Heresy novels and re-reading the other fluff - a new perspective on the huge balancing act that the Emperor was trying to perform with humanity's future existence. He surely must've known what happened to the Eldar and tried to learn from their mistakes... and He must also have known just what the Chaos Gods were trying to do if He was as powerful (if not more so) than them... He must also have forseen what would happen with His Primarchs... and still He threw the dice!
Trying to look at things through His eyes, I'm not sure if I could've made some of the choices and sacrifices He did :(

If you were in his golden boots what would you have done?

[Nabterayl]

Question relating to the OP for those who have read more Horus Heresy than me: what was the point of the Emperor's webway hijinks? Just getting access to the great subway network in the sky? Or was there more than that?

[Kyban]

Question relating to the OP for those who have read more Horus Heresy than me: what was the point of the Emperor's webway hijinks? Just getting access to the great subway network in the sky? Or was there more than that?

As far as I'm aware it was just to get access to it. It would have been a massive advantage and allowed them to end their dependency on the current technology but he overreached and didn't understand the Eldar technology. He had enough of a grasp that it might have worked but it wasn't exactly safe or well done.

[bfmusashi]

I don't think the webway is Eldar tech, they just use it and have a better understanding of it. If memory serves, they can't repair it or make new sections and inherited it from the Old Ones.

[ElectricPaladin]

I don't think the webway is Eldar tech, they just use it and have a better understanding of it. If memory serves, they can't repair it or make new sections and inherited it from the Old Ones.

That's correct. The Lizardmen made it, the Eldar use it, the Dark Eldar live in it, and the Imperium tried to steal it.

[Cpt Codpiece]

the stuff about the terra access to the webway, terra could well have had an access point back when the old ones made the races we know now.

that may be the golden throne. remember back in the day, the fall of the old ones tied in with the birth of slaanesh, and it was the shockwave of her birth that broke the webway portal in the WFB universe and stranded the old ones on that planet and caused the warp rift in the north. but back then sigmar was hinted to be one of the missing primarchs and his decent in the twin tailed re-entry pod... i mean comet :) LOL

but yeah, i did not say earlier that it was magnus that first broke the webway, only he made the fractures worse.

SPOILERS

it was tzeench that led magnus to believe he could do it, magnus was created to be the conduit to the webway that is why he could walk amongst the stars even in his incubator. remember also that the emperor bargained with the powers of the warp in his efforts to create the primarchs, that is why the powers despise him so much. he turned his back on them when he had what he wanted. hence the denial of religion and denouncing of gods. to hide his dubious methods.

[Kyban]

I don't think the webway is Eldar tech, they just use it and have a better understanding of it. If memory serves, they can't repair it or make new sections and inherited it from the Old Ones.

I believe their understanding is pretty good, they can at least manipulate it rather extensively, though a lot of their previous knowledge has probably been lost. Not being able to expand or repair is more of a lack of manpower thing rather than understanding.

I think there are some contradictory versions that have the Eldar creating it instead.

[eldargal]

They can repair it and create temporary passageways at least. They certainly didn't create it but there is no reason to assume their mastery under the Empire was anything but complete and even post-Fall they maintain a better grasp of it than anyone else. It is also worth remembering the webway defends itself, it seals itself against the Necron Dolmen Gates, for example.

The fact is the Emperor had no chance of exploiting the network to the extent he hoped, even putting aside the fragility of the Terra entrypoint.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Brb. Going into webway.

[Dlatrex]

On that subject, given the new 'illumination' of the Necon that Matt Ward has so graciously offered us, is there truth that they now use/invade the webway in part? I was still following the old inertialess-drive background and saw that note listed somewhere. Mayhaps I missed it in the new dex.

[Nabterayl]

Yes, on page 8 of the new codex there is a sidebar on Dolmen Gates, a technology first granted to the necron by the C'Tan known as the Burning One. Dolmen Gates allow a breach into the webway, which is listed as the only way the necron can achieve FTL travel (which makes sense; an inertialess drive would only get you to 1. c). The catch is that the portals so created are unstable, and the webway can detect a breach by a Dolmen Gate and actively works to seal off the section of webway so infected. During the necron's sleep, the eldar actually sought out and destroyed many Dolmen Gates, and permanently isolated parts of the webway known to be used (presumably by gates they couldn't find). So the necron have access to the webway, but are limited by (i) the fact that many of their gates have been lost or destroyed, (ii) between the portal instability and the webway's self-sealing mechanisms, they can't spend too long on any given jaunt through the webway, and (iii) some of their gates lead to small (by webway standards), sealed-off sub-webways. So they have access to the webway, but not nearly as good access as eldar do.

[plawolf]

Here's a heretical thought, maybe the Emperor didn't fail, maybe the Chaos Gods didn't lie to Horus and the other fallen Primarches and in fact, the Emperor got exactly what he wanted and everything else is just Imperial propaganda.

Chaos Gods get power from worshippers, why couldn't the Big E do the same? If the Emperor does derive power from worshipers, and that the souls of loyal and faithful servants joins with him and adds to him in the warp when they die, well, the current state of affairs is about as good as it could conceivably get for the Emperor (a suspicious mind might wonder if it was all planned when things work out so well for someone), with mankind united in worship of him, and everlasting war providing him with a never-ending supply of loyal souls to feast upon on top of the thousand psykers sacrificed to him every day as a light snack.

Who can say the Emperor did not ascent to true Godhood as the Chaos Gods were claiming, and that the Golden Throne and Astronomica is just one big massive psychic 'Out of Office' script or 'Gone Fishing' sign designed to give the illusion that he was still around to keep things ticking over so the Emperor gets his worship allowance and fresh loyalist soul snacks, but the Emperor is actually living it big in Paradise with his 80 trillion and counting virgin Sisters of Battle? :p

[Cpt Codpiece]

having just finished angel exterminatus, there is a revelation near the end (no not the dog tag, though that was cool) that will add weight to the theory of the emeror knowing of the powers in tghe warp, intimatly almost fraternally :)

at that i will say no more.

[ElectricPaladin]

Here's a heretical thought...

The thing is, we know the Emperor rejected the earliest version of the Astronomicon Project because he thought the sacrifice of psykers was unacceptable. If he wanted to be the locus of worship and eat souls, he had plenty of opportunities to arrange that. Everyone wanted to worship him - he had to beat them off with a stick!

I think it's more likely that the Emperor was unaware of his own divine potential and will be as surprised as anyone else when (and if) he becomes a divine entity. That, or he knew that this could happen, but didn't want it to happen, preferring to give mankind freedom and independence from gods.

[Kyban]

Yes, on page 8 of the new codex there is a sidebar on Dolmen Gates, a technology first granted to the necron by the C'Tan known as the Burning One. Dolmen Gates allow a breach into the webway, which is listed as the only way the necron can achieve FTL travel (which makes sense; an inertialess drive would only get you to 1. c). The catch is that the portals so created are unstable, and the webway can detect a breach by a Dolmen Gate and actively works to seal off the section of webway so infected. During the necron's sleep, the eldar actually sought out and destroyed many Dolmen Gates, and permanently isolated parts of the webway known to be used (presumably by gates they couldn't find). So the necron have access to the webway, but are limited by (i) the fact that many of their gates have been lost or destroyed, (ii) between the portal instability and the webway's self-sealing mechanisms, they can't spend too long on any given jaunt through the webway, and (iii) some of their gates lead to small (by webway standards), sealed-off sub-webways. So they have access to the webway, but not nearly as good access as eldar do.
I feel like the gates don't fit with the rest of the fluff. It took the assistance of Tzeench for Magnus to break into it, doing almost nothing with his own considerable power. The warp is supposed to be anathema to the necrons and I thought they traveled through more of a "wrinkle in time" style shunt to achieve ftl. A lot of the Necron fluff is pretty crazy though, like the pylons that can cut the warp off from the material world, I've never liked that fluff, it just didn't seem right. (Didn't they make them before the fall but also put them next to the eye of terror, which wouldn't have existed yet?)


Here's a heretical thought, maybe the Emperor didn't fail, maybe the Chaos Gods didn't lie to Horus and the other fallen Primarches and in fact, the Emperor got exactly what he wanted and everything else is just Imperial propaganda.

Chaos Gods get power from worshippers, why couldn't the Big E do the same? If the Emperor does derive power from worshipers, and that the souls of loyal and faithful servants joins with him and adds to him in the warp when they die, well, the current state of affairs is about as good as it could conceivably get for the Emperor (a suspicious mind might wonder if it was all planned when things work out so well for someone), with mankind united in worship of him, and everlasting war providing him with a never-ending supply of loyal souls to feast upon on top of the thousand psykers sacrificed to him every day as a light snack.
I don't think he would have needed to go to such extremes to be worshiped but I have always believed that the more worshipers a being had made them more powerful based on the fluff for the warp. Planning it all out really would have made him no better than a chaos god, not a conspiracy I particularly like. I feel like he would have just struck Horus down immediately if he was so inclined unless you're suggesting Horus with his demon power-ups were about as strong as the emperor.


having just finished angel exterminatus, there is a revelation near the end (no not the dog tag, though that was cool) that will add weight to the theory of the emeror knowing of the powers in tghe warp, intimatly almost fraternally :).
He certainly knew a lot about them and it is even suggested that he struck a deal with them to create the primarchs, in which case he underestimated them but leading up to the heresy it seems like no one knows much about them, like they've been hiding (and plotting) since the Fall.

[Cpt Codpiece]

He certainly knew a lot about them and it is even suggested that he struck a deal with them to create the primarchs, in which case he underestimated them but leading up to the heresy it seems like no one knows much about them, like they've been hiding (and plotting) since the Fall.

no it is revealed by one of the primarchs that the emperor knows of chaos in a very specific way. i dont want to spoil the book for anyone but i will say this, for the emperor to denounce the powers in the warp, the 'gods' of chaos........ he is swimming in a certain river in egypt......... de nile ;P

[plawolf]

...I don't think he would have needed to go to such extremes to be worshiped but I have always believed that the more worshipers a being had made them more powerful based on the fluff for the warp. Planning it all out really would have made him no better than a chaos god, not a conspiracy I particularly like. I feel like he would have just struck Horus down immediately if he was so inclined unless you're suggesting Horus with his demon power-ups were about as strong as the emperor.


The thing is, we know the Emperor rejected the earliest version of the Astronomicon Project because he thought the sacrifice of psykers was unacceptable. If he wanted to be the locus of worship and eat souls, he had plenty of opportunities to arrange that. Everyone wanted to worship him - he had to beat them off with a stick!

I think it's more likely that the Emperor was unaware of his own divine potential and will be as surprised as anyone else when (and if) he becomes a divine entity. That, or he knew that this could happen, but didn't want it to happen, preferring to give mankind freedom and independence from gods.


Well, going by established fluff, it would not be too unreasonable to assume that if the Emperor was on the cusp of true Godhood, he may have needed some vast sacrifice of souls to give him the power to break through the threshold and attain full God status.

The Emperor would have found it hard to keep the remaining population loyal, never mind devote, if he just went and sacrificed a few trillion souls for his own personal benefit.

Sure, the Chaos gods betray and sacrifice their loyal servants all the time and the follower still keep coming, but that is more down to the Chaos Gods personally micro managing everything and granting all sorts of gifts and favors to their most loyal followers and punishing those who stray (or just for poops and giggles). Seems like a hell of a lot of work.

In comparison, the Emperor doesn't seem to grant anywhere close to as many gifts and favors to his followers, yet there are far more of them than Chaos followers. Just in terms of the reward-to-effort ratio, who has the better set up?

In addition to that, it is also entirely possible that the Emperor is not as callus as the Chaos Gods and actually care about the well being of the Human race and wanted to do something nice for them before ascending to Godhood, or he had even grander plans with the human race once he built his human webway.

If having pretty much the entire human race worshipping you gave you X amount of power. Had the Emperor succeeded in this original plan and moved humanity into the webway and stayed there for a few more millennia the entire human race would all be psykers, and having a larger population base because of natural population growth overtime. If the entire psyker human population worshiped the Emperor then, it would have given him Y amount of power. It would not be hard to assume that Y > X, most likely be several orders of magnitude.

On top of that, the Chaos Gods would have been massively weakened since with the Human race protected from them by the webway, they would loose their primary source of foodstuffs. If the Great Crusade continued uninterrupted, humanity would have gone on to wipe out all the other remaining non-human sentient races from the Galaxy and further diminished the Chaos gods' recruiting pool and weakened them more.

If the Emperor ascended to Godhood then, he may not have needed a vast sacrifice if all the human race were psykers and all wished to help him, and thus all lent him a portion of their psychic power. Being sustained by a larger population of psykers compared to blunt humans might have also given the Emperor even more power. Come that time, a far more powerful Emperor God juiced up with the happy psyker thoughts of the entire human race would have easily outmatched all the weakened Chaos Gods. Maybe to the point where the Emperor God could have gobbled them up as well and become even more powerful.

With Magus breaking his webway, the Emperor might had to resort to plan B and settle for what he could salvage. No one really saw the Emperor and Horus fight. Dorn only arrived after the dust had settled. For all we know, the Emperor could have zapped Horus with mind bullets the moment he saw Horus, and then just crack open his own armor with the late Horus' claws and gave himself a few flesh wounds to make it look real, and then just faked it when Dorn finally stomped near.

[bfmusashi]

The Emperor read the Hogfather and developed his plans accordingly.

[dark messenger]

Wow this thread is becoming quite deep. Liking it.

I would imagine that the human psyker potential would allow the Emperor to become godlike (more so anyway) and that it would allow the final removal of all things non-human. Was that something along the lines of His grand plan? It sounds pretty cool but then the problem of "Where do we go from here?" springs up again...

A quick note on what EP was saying earlier about the Astronomican - I can't seem to find much information on the actual state of the beacon. All I know is it's a huge psychic energy blast, shaped and controlled by the Emperor but the thing is how?
At least now we know it's fuelled by the psychic deaths of thousands of sacrifices but when the Crusade was underway that wasn't happening right? I've been looking for something to explain where/when it began and I've come up with dust.
Not to mention what's to prevent it from going out altogether?

[Cpt Codpiece]

ok i cant keep this in any longer. sorry if i spoil the book, but people need to know or we will keep going in circles.

angel exterminatus.
fulgrim and perturabo have gone to one of the eldar planets where they make soulstones and lay out the dead so they can protect the galaxy from she who thirsts. (i was half asleep after this next bit so memory is a little fuzzy LOL but i remember this bit all too well)

fulgrim is sacrfificing sould in order to become the true demon form, linking the soul stones and prismatica shards (from the primarchs book).
upon revealing his intent for coming to the world fulgrim tells his brother that the emperor had ascended to godhood eons ago and refused to join the chaos gods, choosing to stay on the 'mortal realm'

there is always the possibility of fulgrim lying, or the gods/demons to him and he believing it, however it answers so many questions. the emperor was created as a god the instant the collective souls of the shaman coallesced, he then chose to stay a man rather than control man from the warp.

as for the astronomican, it is mentioned in a few heresy books that its signal is distorted by the warpstorms, then after magnus' intrusion it appears to stop for a while. most definatly in outcast dead (the fall out of magnus' actions) it is still in action as kai is threatened wiith the hollow mountain as a punishment, and the black ships are mentioned as being in action also, so it would appear the benevolent emperor has been sacrificing innocents for quite some time, and at least the psychic community knew about it (astropaths and navigators)