Why Language Matters

[Chronowraith]

So I work in a field where myself and my coworkers are involved in international partnerships, some of which are in the UK. A coworker of mine, who had very little understanding of British vernacular had the following in an e-mail exchange.

British Rep: "I look forward to finalizing our coordination efforts on this topic.

US Rep: "As we say in the military, 'Roger that'"

British Rep: "Your last statement does not, hilariously, translate well in British vernacular. I do however, understand your conveyance."

Given how almost every thread in this forum seemingly devolves into a discussion about language, I figured I'd post this here. I just found it amusing that a man who is deeply immersed in British culture never realized that "Roger that" meant something completely different in another country.

Maybe I knew this because I lived in the UK as a kid for several years (doubtful since we left when I was 4). Maybe I knew it because I travel there on a regular basis (doubtful as I'm pretty sure I knew it prior to starting my current profession). If I had to guess, I learned this by watching pop culture movies sometime in the last 20 years.

So let this be a lesson that before you use a colloquialism in your own language, make sure you understand the vernacular (and its colloquialisms) of the recipient.

[Mr Mystery]

And America. Your arse is NOT your fanny.

Unless you're of slight build and in Prison, in which case it might very well be.

[MaltonNecromancer]

Back when I was a teenager, the first time I heard an American friend refer to one of those waist satchels as a "fanny pack" I nearly hyperventilated laughing. What with "fanny" being a rather coarse (though not sweary) colloquialism for a lady's parts.

I've heard of a similar thing happening, only reversed, when American friends have been asked by English friends if they can "bum a ***" ("bum" here meaning "I know you've paid for these, but can I have one?" and conveying a sense of cheeky knowingness, and "***" being a cigarette.) I had always assumed Americans knew this, but from the fact they couldn't stop giggling for the next few hours, evidently not.

[Mr Mystery]

Indeed.

Though how America can claim to be civilised without their own Profanisaurus I don't know. It's my essential lexicon of rude terms and swearies!!

[Wildeybeast]

I stand to be corrected but I'd disagree with a couple of the points here. I'm fairly certain 'roger that' is an old military term over here and the British guy may have been playing that up. Rogering someone would be a different matter entirely, but not roger that. Also, by contrast bumming something nowadays very much means the same as rogering it. The youth of today only use that word in one way. I think you might be a bit behind the times Malty.

[DarkLink]

I had always assumed Americans knew this, but from the fact they couldn't stop giggling for the next few hours, evidently not.

Oh, we know what you meant. You just didn't know what you said in American speak. A lack of cultural understanding cuts both ways.

[MaltonNecromancer]

I think you might be a bit behind the times

Not really behind the times; just disappointed at the lack of imagination, the casual homophobia, and the thoughtless seduction by American culture, even the ugliest parts.

I mean, if I'm going to offend someone, I just use a good strong English word like the one that rhymes with "punt". As in "you sick-ducking, punting cluckfasterd", or "I'm going to give that cluckfaced buddyfunster a clucking punting right in the sloblock".

If you're going to be offensive, why bother with anything less?

[dark messenger]

I'm not quite sure when the english language in America started to diverge from British english to "Americanese" but the difference now is quite noticeable. Especially because as I'm typing this the auto-spell is trying to tell me half of what I've typed is wrong lol.

I've always found languages fascinating as it seems no matter where you go in the world, their language seems to be made up of the same basic sets of sounds your language uses, just with different placement, pauses, inflections and suchlike.
Will the differences become more or less pronounced as time passes do you think?

On a different note, I swear the next idiot on the street who calls me "blud", "cuz", "bred'ren" or "fam" will get a fku*ing slap....

[Wolfshade]

I hate how many people sound like an Ali G knock off. Surely they must realise that if you wish to get anywhere in life you need to be understood and talking in an urban vernacular is counter productive. I did have a discussion with a chap who asked if I was "dissing" him, I looked at him blankly and explained that I had no idea what he was talking about and that dis was just a prefix so you could make that into a verb, he wondered off looking confused, one of his friends shouted "props to the white guy" I was equally dumbfounded.

The English language has always been diverging, and time and space gives it time to grow and change. A former english teacher of mine gave a great demonstration how various accents changed, so the cockney accent when expanded became australian, and how other regional accents came from, it was rather interesting.

Not all blocks are used though if you go to africa you have language such as Xhosa which has clicks in it.
There was a language study performed and they did look at the word sounds and found that many languages share common sounds and they managed to date languages based on how many other languages used their phonemes

You can also learn a bit about a language by listening to how they speak your tongue. For instance the stereotypical oriental mistake of pronoucing l's as r's that shows that in their language there are no instances where ls and rs define what the word is, like pray and play. Similarly, we make mistakes when speaking catonese because the inflections which change the meaning of the word aren't used, or at least aren't used to differenitiate two words.

[alshrive]

i would like to throw the word Ghoti in to this conversation!

and also furthering Wolfshade use of cantonese i will go to Mandarin (as i haven't studied Cantonese but i have Mandarin) and would give the example that a simple change of inflection can change a word from Mother to Horse. Would definitely leave an impression... "So have you ever been Horse Riding before?"........

[Wolfshade]

my favourite spelling of fish...

[alshrive]

my favourite spelling of fish...
or a completely silent word!

[Wolfshade]

how does the t become silent?

[alshrive]

t as in ballet

[Wolfshade]

Ah yes exactly, I had got the rest of them.

One that irritates me is irregardless, I read that as with regard to since the ir- and -less form a double negative

[alshrive]

that word is the basis of the American Dad! episode Irregarding Steve.... well worth a watch!

[Wolfshade]

Yup :)

I remember someone arguing that it wasn't a problem and sighted flammable and inflammable as justification. I pointed out that flammable was made up because some people got confused and thought the in- was a modified un- as used in intolerant, whereas it is an en- as is inhale and the whole thing became an issue when in the 1920s the US National Fire Protection Association pushed the word.

[Psychosplodge]

3267

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3267&d=1352889444

[Wolfshade]

I think it would be easier if we did just *******ise other words and use consistent grammar with them, rather than retaining grammar rules based on where the word originally came from, after all you shouldn't need to think of the root of the word before adding -ise or -ize.

[alshrive]

the problem is people don't know the correct ending of words any more because they don't know where a word came from! WHAT THE HELL IS OCTOPI! you cannot take a greek word and add a latin ending! It is no different to me adding ge- as prefix to all verbs when they are used in the past tense! i am just mixing german and english! or i have gemixed german and english!

[Psychosplodge]

I think Dark Messenger makes a good point, people don't bother to set up their spell checkers correctly, and will then wrongly "correct" words...

[Wolfshade]

I think they call that a hyper correction, they know octopus is a non native word and so go hmm, well radius ends with an us and that becomes a plural (no not pluralise/ize/entizn) by removing the us and replace it with an i, so octopus must be octopi(i). Octopodes I suppose is the more correct form, but octopuses is probably equally as good. Similiarly, rhinoceros is rhinoceroses though itself is a corruption in its imported form and should arguably be rhinocerantes

[alshrive]

as do I! people rely far too heavily on spellcheck in modern time and i would love for it just to be removed completely to see how people actually get on.... a CV would become an interesting read....

[Psychosplodge]

I dunno rhinoceri sounds better... but rhinos is the easiest to say :p

[alshrive]

I dunno rhinoceri sounds better... but rhinos is the easiest to say :p

Rhinoceros is a greek word so the plural would technically be Rhinocerodes not Rhinoceri...... same for Octopodes....

interesting Rhino went from Ancient Greek to Latin and then to what we know now so i guess i could give the latin ending actually..

[Wolfshade]

Rhinoceros is a greek word so the plural would technically be Rhinocerodes not Rhinoceri...... same for Octopodes....

interesting Rhino went from Ancient Greek to Latin and then to what we know now so i guess i could give the latin ending actually..

NO! Rhinocerantes, not rhinocerodes. :p

Also platypus is flat footed so that should go to platypodes.

But more commonly the creation of verbs from nouns I dislike and people using literally in a metaphor

[Psychosplodge]

people using literally in a metaphor
That is somewhat irritating...

[Wolfshade]

That is somewhat irritating...
It literally makes my head explode....:eek:

[Psychosplodge]

It literally makes my head explode....:eek:

But only once...

[alshrive]

the description of tension as "literally palpable"! unless of course it is a physical object under tension........

I did once shout at somebody that the tension is not palpable but a slinky is!

[Wolfshade]

you literally told that guy

[alshrive]

i did, i literally told him that! unfortunately it did not literally blow his mind!

[Wolfshade]

One of the other things I find jarring is when "due" is used as a preposition. Fortunately, I have trained my team who now avoid using it completely :D

[dark messenger]

This thread has become hilarious and I like it!
I understand what you guys are typing here, nodding sagely and laughing...
My friend sitting next to me has a look on his face that wouldn't be out of place on a perplexed puppy. I believe he may get a headache in a moment. This thread will do wonders when it comes to deflating his ego about how much smarter than the rests of us he is...
Because I hate people who brag about how much better than you they are when they don't even understand what you mean when you call them "narrow-minded onanists" (yes, I paraphrased)

[alshrive]

ah felicity by language.........

[Psychosplodge]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mclrpsIXjb1rjx3clo1_400.gif

[alshrive]

gotta love IT Crowd! Ayoade was a brillaint host for Buzz***** too! "Let's not resort to jokes"

[Psychosplodge]

Buzzc*cks is so far past it's best before date...it stopped been funny a long time ago.

[alshrive]

i don't normally watch it but i think Ayoade is hilarious and he was a brillaint host. But i would say that Buzzoccks hasn't been good since Mark Lamarr....

[Psychosplodge]

It would have probably been the natural point to end it.