Using non-GW models in a GW shop?

[Merx]

Hi all,

Just ordered the Shaman, BSB and the dude with the polearm from Mierce Minatures for my Beastmen army. The beastmen lack good looking hero units in my opinion, and have some borderline horrific models (Razorgor anyone?).

http://www.mierce-miniatures.com/index.php?act=pro&pre=mrm_dkl_fmr_blr_wcf_361_000
http://www.mierce-miniatures.com/index.php?act=pro&pre=mrm_dkl_fmr_blr_wcf_331_000
http://www.mierce-miniatures.com/index.php?act=pro&pre=mrm_dkl_fmr_blr_wcf_301_000

Gorgeous models I think you will agree, or at the very least a decent alternative to the GW models.

Anyway, I was wondering what peoples experience has been with taking non GW models into their shop. Im pretty friendly with the guys at my local GW, and the majority of my army (ie, all but 3-4 models) would be GW. They have a pretty robust games night going with some good boards so I would be loathed to not go because of my choice in models.

Anybody had any experience?

Cheers
Merx

[ElectricPaladin]

My impression is this:

1) In most shops, you will be allowed to play casually, but in some you might be told not to use those models.
2) In all shops, you will not be allowed to use those models in tournaments, period.

[Deadlift]

Don't say anything and see if anyone even notices ;)

[Chronowraith]

A) Awesome models. Thanks for posting as I have never seen those prior to today.

B) What ElectricPaladin said is largely going to hold true at most GW stores. They really push their models to the exclusion of everything else (and it's their store so why not). I've seen managers let single miniatures slide in WFB if they are not incredibly obvious. I have also seen them take models off the board and tell the owner that they must now play their games minus whatever those models count as. Usually that was more for 40k where people would try and use Warmachine warjacks for dreadnoughts, but certain large models may also cause this reaction.

[Merx]

Thats cool.

I am slightly worried about Mierce minatures fulfilling my order because of the whole maelstrom thing. Although they are separate right?

[Denzark]

Merx if you look at the thread in the 40K lounge, someone has posted company records shwoing that they were owned or at least directed by the same bloke.

[The Madman]

I would say they are against it as they wouldn't allow me to use my scratchbuilt Land Raider.

[RGilbert26]

It's more down to the Manager than the company and Madman what was your scratchbuilt Land Raider made out of? There had to be a reason for it.

[Wolfshade]

I think given that it was a scratch build of an existing model would be reason enough. If it was a converted counts as then fair enough, but if it were a straight up copy then you can see where they are coming from.

Hmm, that sounds more harsh then I mean it to sound, sorry.

[Chaoschrist]

My experiences is that it´s now allowed in a GW store. GW only is policy apparently.

Though, I did frown a bit when this went on when an Ork player brought along converted trukks from random car modelling kits and GW bits combined. Orks will build and pillage any vehicle they can get their hands on, so in that way, it would even be in line with fluff I guess. But even there GW went on to not allow this.

On the other hand; it's their store. If you want to play said models in your fantasy army, play in a non-GW store that provides room for gaming.

[alshrive]

Having worked for GW i can say that the Policy dictated by company is strictly GW models only, whether the manager strictly enforces this is another point entirely. However is would possibly result in disciplinary action if a member of senior management saw it happening and that the Manager hadn't stopped it.

[Wildeybeast]

If they are a couple of models in the middle of unit, chances are no one will even notice. You could put in an 'anonymous' phone call to the store to enquire about their policy. However, if they see them they will ask you to take them off the table. GW hobby centres are for the GW hobby, not the wargaming hobby in general, and using other people's models in their shop is bad form really. The fact you asking here means you know it's not really cool, so my advice is to save everyone the awkwardness of them asking you to get rid of them and just don't do it.

[altbob]

This is why I never play in a GW store and pretty much boycott GW. Some of you are too young to remember when there were independent game stores where people got together to share good times and painted together and played for fun, and when someone showed up with a new cool miniature that no one had seen before, we all "oohed" and "ahhed" and got the store owner to order that model for the rest of us and no one attacked it merely because it was produced by some company that they had a grudge against. The very idea of a miniatures company having monopoly power and holding the hobby hostage was unthinkable...

[ElectricPaladin]

This is why I never play in a GW store and pretty much boycott GW. Some of you are too young to remember when there were independent game stores...

Hey! I've lived a short drive/longish bike ride from one game store or another for the past six years! The game store community is alive and well, at least in some places.

This is why, although I agree with your sentiment, I don't share your rancor. It's GW's stores, let them run them how they like. There are other stores where I can play whatever I want. Given the way it seems to go out here, with GW closing stores left and right while independent game retailers thrive, I'm not concerned about a hostage situation.

[Wildeybeast]

Hey! I've lived a short drive/longish bike ride from one game store or another for the past six years! The game store community is alive and well, at least in some places.

This is why, although I agree with your sentiment, I don't share your rancor. It's GW's stores, let them run them how they like. There are other stores where I can play whatever I want. Given the way it seems to go out here, with GW closing stores left and right while independent game retailers thrive, I'm not concerned about a hostage situation.

+1 to this. GW has much more of a monopoly in the UK than the US, but there are plenty of gaming clubs where you can play what you like. I don't get why this is an issue - you wouldn't take a Burger King into KFC and sit there eating it. GW stores are shops which provide a hobby space for their products and their is no obligation on them to do anything more.

[altbob]

We're only slowly seeing Indy stores making a comeback where I live. For a while, any time an Indy store got itself established, GW would start to play with distribution and pricing and make it very hard for that store to sell WH at a profit, and then open an official store a few blocks away and try to put the Indy store out of business. I'm glad to hear that this strategy isn't working so well any more, thanks to alternative games and other revenue streams taking the slack perhaps (Warmachine, Hordes, Dust, Flames of War, CCG's, action figure sales and comic books picking up the slack).

[inquisitorsog]

Hey! I've lived a short drive/longish bike ride from one game store or another for the past six years! The game store community is alive and well, at least in some places.

This is why, although I agree with your sentiment, I don't share your rancor. It's GW's stores, let them run them how they like. There are other stores where I can play whatever I want. Given the way it seems to go out here, with GW closing stores left and right while independent game retailers thrive, I'm not concerned about a hostage situation.

Having lived in both upstate NY and the Bay Area, I can say, the Bay Area will spoil you. Meanwhile, the entire mid-Hudson of NY region is serviced by basically only two or three game stores (or at least was when I moved out).

It seems to me that game stores are largely a function of the number of good universities with good engineering/science departments in a given region. If you don't have good schools that will concentrate the geeks in a given area, it will become harder for a store to thrive.

[jgebi]

I just think it's their store theirs rules this being said, My money my rules to so if your paying to play a torm and the model fits then they can get ****ed

[Build]

It's the manager's choice more than anything, I've been in some stores where alternative models tend to be allowed so long as it's kept to a minimum.

I did get told by one very shirty manager that he would not allow me to use any models that were brought elsewhere, so I asked him if I could use scratch builds I had done. He said yes, so I did.

After that I got banned from ever sculpting in store again. :D


On the whole though it's probably a little dependant on you too, if you use a couple of pieces and don't brag about it or say how much better it is then you'll very likely get away with it.

[billytwix]

just do it. if you spend enough money there they won't hassle you. why would a store want to lose sales over something silly like that? now if you are a poor gamer who only has one army and doesn't spend a few hundred on the hobby a month then your odds may not fair so well. tournaments would probably need to be all GW mostly to cut down on the confusion of what is what on top of upsetting your opponent who spend so much more than you probably did for essentially the same toys. I think it comes down to, your involvement with the store/group, the nature of the manager, and your relationship (in $$$). good luck - I often play with stand in characters, and horde infantry, for some armies 100% are not GW. It just depends on where you are at...

[The Madman]

It's more down to the Manager than the company and Madman what was your scratchbuilt Land Raider made out of? There had to be a reason for it.

I think given that it was a scratch build of an existing model would be reason enough. If it was a converted counts as then fair enough, but if it were a straight up copy then you can see where they are coming from.

Hmm, that sounds more harsh then I mean it to sound, sorry.

Its built out of plastic card and painted it looks like any other land raider except for the tracks which i used ones meant for a WW2 tank. he said i couldn't use it as it "didn't accurately represent the actual model."

he also wouldn't let me use my terminators that had Micro Art shoulder pads for the same reason.

[Wolfshade]

Its built out of plastic card and painted it looks like any other land raider except for the tracks which i used ones meant for a WW2 tank. he said i couldn't use it as it "didn't accurately represent the actual model."

he also wouldn't let me use my terminators that had Micro Art shoulder pads for the same reason.

That seems quite harsh. Especially when you consider the Apocalypse book when it came out, it had a scratchbuilt train that was a counts-as-landraider on rails amongst other scratch builds.

This makes me sad :(

[Wildeybeast]

I don't know, I'd probably side with the store on this one. If it is a scratch built 'conversion' for fluff or artistic purposes (like the train), fair enough, or it is for a unit they don't have a model for then that is reasonable. Turning up to play at a store with a scratch built version of a model that is basically the same as one they sell is not really any different to using a model from another range for the same purposes. It still amounts to a 'I'm not paying your stupid prices, so FU' and I'd say they are well within their rights to not allow you to use it.

[Chronowraith]

Wildey is pretty spot on. The reason scratch-built versions of existing models are not allowed is because it gets really hard to sell a $75 tank when people see they can make a reasonable approximation for a fraction of the cost.

If it is a completely new build and is a "counts-as" model that is a different beast altogether and most GW managers I know would allow that to fly. Piecing together a plasticard version to avoid the high cost is another matter and I don't know a single manager that would allow that.

[Wolfshade]

Its built out of plastic card and painted it looks like any other land raider except for the tracks which i used ones meant for a WW2 tank. he said i couldn't use it as it "didn't accurately represent the actual model."

he also wouldn't let me use my terminators that had Micro Art shoulder pads for the same reason.


That seems quite harsh. Especially when you consider the Apocalypse book when it came out, it had a scratchbuilt train that was a counts-as-landraider on rails amongst other scratch builds.

This makes me sad :(

Oh I miss read that post, I thought it weas just a simple track swap not a plasticard build. Yeah, spot on with Wildey

[ElectricPaladin]

There does seem to be a difference between the spirit of creativity and freedom that GW's creative staff promotes and the somewhat grasping - albeit entirely fair - attitude of the shops. The creative guys seem to be saying "do what you like - this is awesome! Look, I made a fortress out of tin cans and an army out of toothpicks! Whee!" while the stores are a lot more... discerning.

[Wildeybeast]

I don't see any conflict in that though. Be as creative as you like in your own home or hobby club, but a shop exists to sell things. GW shops provide a hobby space only to encourage further sales, so just be reasonable and don't bring non-GW stuff in there. Besides, all the creative stuff they do is for things they don't have models for or are 'fluff pieces' (like the aforementioned train).

[ElectricPaladin]

I don't see any conflict in that though. Be as creative as you like in your own home or hobby club, but a shop exists to sell things. GW shops provide a hobby space only to encourage further sales, so just be reasonable and don't bring non-GW stuff in there. Besides, all the creative stuff they do is for things they don't have models for or are 'fluff pieces' (like the aforementioned train).

Before I post, I want to note my disclaimer: GW has a right to do whatever they want with their stores. It's their business.

That said.

When I go to Endgame, nobody grills me about whether or not I bought my models at Endgame. They don't care that I got some of them at Games of Berkeley, some of them at Gamescape, some of them on eBay or Amazon. They don't care that I bought my copy of Horus Heresy direct from Fantasy Flight. As a result, I know that I can always go to Endgame, and this a powerful thing for them. They can sell me diet cokes and packs of peanuts. When I buy a mini on a whim, it's usually at Endgame, because that's where I am when the whim to buy something strikes me. Most importantly, by being my FLGS, Endgame has placed itself first and foremost in my mind as the place that I go to play games and buy minis. I don't even think about it - I go to Endgame because that's my store. I know the guys. I'm comfortable there. I can drop buy to pick of a Razorback kit and shoot the sh^t about 6th Edition and how silly the idea of a The Hobbit wargame is.

Now, as long as GW's stores have the attitude that they do, they will never be this kind of store for a lot of people. I know that I wouldn't want to hang out at a place where my minis would be under that kind of scrutiny, even though I have only one or two that incorporate non-GW parts. The attitude is part of the problem - it's why I call it grasping. It's greedy and short-sighted. It isn't wrong - like I wrote before, they've got a right to run their stores the way they want - but consider the alternative.

Consider that if my local GW was an awesome place to play games and hang out, I'd be there a lot more often. And where I am is where I spend my money. I'm sure that any cash they lost to the occasional third party retailer they'd earn back severalfold in impulse buys and customer loyalty.

It isn't wrong, but it is shortsighted, and ultimately, I think it's why GW's retail department has never made them much money.