Innovative Punishment for Motoring Offence

[alshrive]

Just read/watched this article on the BBC and I thought that it deserved sharing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20252212


genius!

[Wildeybeast]

Why did she have to drive on the pavement? The other side of the road was clear, why not just overtake using that like a normal person rather than unleashing Carmaggedon?

[alshrive]

Why did she have to drive on the pavement? The other side of the road was clear, why not just overtake using that like a normal person rather than unleashing Carmaggedon?
I have absolutely no idea!!!

[Psychosplodge]

How medieval, do we get to throw rotten fruit at her? Remember what happened to a bloke that frogmarched a thief he caught red handed with a sign saying as much to a police station?

[alshrive]

I am of the opinion that a bit of public humiliation isn't a bad thing! it will be less quickly forgotten than simply taking her license for a month....

[Wildeybeast]

It does seem rather humiliating and pointless. Far better to send her on a re-education course, make her pay a fine/do community service or simply take her license off her. Any one of those would make her pay back to society or remove the danger she poses, this achieves nothing. A judge simply couldn't give that sort of punishment over here (thankfully).

[Psychosplodge]

Though I suppose a couple of hours standing with a board, instead of £60 and three points...in return for driving as fast as I want anywhere :D

[alshrive]

she got a fine, lost her license for a month and had this!

[Psychosplodge]

Overkill then. I'll return to medieval then :p

[Wolfshade]

In the UK it wouldn't be permissable as it would be humiliating.

[MaltonNecromancer]

Hmmm. Humiliating people doesn't come from a sense of justice, it comes from a sense of revenge, and those two things aren't the same. This is kind of disgusting.

I'd make her sit with people who have lost children to people like her, and have them explain what happened. People commit crimes when they think they'll get away with it, and can abstract away the consequences, and pretend that no harm is being done. She's been caught, which is the first part, and as to the second part, it's harder to rationalise and justify callous idiocy when you're sat across from someone who has been harmed by actions like yours.

You know, unless you're an actual psychopath. Then nothing will help and you just need to be locked away.

[Psychosplodge]

You know, unless you're an actual psychopath. Then nothing will help and you just need to be locked away.

hey, where's your understanding of the psychotically inclined?

[eldargal]

I've found humiliation is extremely effective and re-educating teenage boys, when a lot of their social interaction is based around bravado and maintaining an image. Against adults, not so much. It tends to just make them upset and cranky.

[Wildeybeast]

I don't know what situations you are referring to, but if you need to have any sort of ongoing relationship with them, humiliating them is the worst thing you can do for teenage boys, it just builds resentment.

[eldargal]

In this case referring to boys who made sexist remarks aimed at me in front of their friends. Yelling at them until they cry tends to reinforce it's bad, and I wouldn't say I'm resented by the survivors, just feared.:) It's not like I'm stripping them naked, painting their genitals blue and whipping them down the high street.

[Psychosplodge]

They might enjoy that...

[eldargal]

I also explain exactly why they are being yelled at, the emotional impact it can have on other less assured(or arrogant) females and whatnot, so it is a learning experience.

I don't think many teenage boys enjoy having their privates put on display and critiqued, they usually lack confidence in that department.

[Psychosplodge]

Do they? how odd

[Wildeybeast]

I hear TDA likes that sort of thing.

[Psychosplodge]

He's certainly suggested as much before...

[alshrive]

he was gutted when they discontinued ultramarine blue! he hasn't been satisfied by any of the replacements!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Why is Junior involved in a convo again? EldarGal, you're obsessed. :p

[Wildeybeast]

You've named your manhood and we're the ones who are obsessed with it?

[Gotthammer]

Saw a program with Tony Robinson where he was in a town talking to a young lad who earned himself an ASBO. In this town the ASBOs were publically displayed in the town centre for all to see, and the kid said that was the worst part and the biggest deterrent against mucking up.
Obviously it works for some and not others, like any educational/corrective method.

[Wildeybeast]

It's fine if it's a faceless punishment delivered by a remote authority figure that they have no contact with because there is nothing they can do about it. If you have to see them every week and need to have an ongoing relationship with them, public humiliation is the worst thing possible because they have someone to hate and resent for inflicting said punishment. Besides, there are plenty of tedious punishments you can inflict without humiliating them. It all goes back to what Malton was saying earlier; are you punishing them for simple vengeance or is it about restorative justice and ensuring it doesn't happen again?

[Deadlift]

I don't know what situations you are referring to, but if you need to have any sort of ongoing relationship with them, humiliating them is the worst thing you can do for teenage boys, it just builds resentment.

Agreed, I have found finding some common ground with troublesome teenage lads is far more effective than shouting and giving them grief, managering an arcade I have seen my fair share. But I have always treated those kids fairly, never swore at them and never tried to humiliate any of them in front of their friends.
As they have grown up and become adults, most of the local kids I knew from the arcade, still stop me in the town to say hi. A few now with their own children. It's true some can be right little *******s and some I know have even ended up serving time, but to me these kids / men have always shown me the same politeness and respect I show them. But that could also be because I weight 260lbs lol

[Wildeybeast]

Agreed, I have found finding some common ground with troublesome teenage lads is far more effective than shouting and giving them grief, managering an arcade I have seen my fair share. But I have always treated those kids fairly, never swore at them and never tried to humiliate any of them in front of their friends.
As they have grown up and become adults, most of the local kids I knew from the arcade, still stop me in the town to say hi. A few now with their own children. It's true some can be right little *******s and some I know have even ended up serving time, but to me these kids / men have always shown me the same politeness and respect I show them. But that could also be because I weight 260lbs lol

Exactly. You've no hope of someone respecting you if you treat them like something you stepped in.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

You've named your manhood and we're the ones who are obsessed with it?

No, EldarGal named it. :p

[Denzark]

Crime can only be countered with punishments that contain an element of retribution and rehabilitation. The retribution should be harsh enough to do 2 things - deter the criminal from doing it again, and also, show the law abiding citizen that it is not only worth his while not committing crime, but also that society will notstay its hand in trying to protect its citizens.

As a baby you learn not to put your hand in fire because it hurts. That lesson holds for life. So you need something mentally or physically hurtful to stop criminals crossing the fence again. 3 points and £60 on my license has stopped me from crossing solid white lines where I now know Cambridgeshire police runs an unmarked unit!

[Wolfshade]

One of the problems with a lot of motoring offenses is that they can be dealt with in a number of different ways and it is down to the individual police force that applies them.
For instance if I were to do 40 in a 30 zone I would reasonably expect 3 points and a £60 fine, however, if I were to do it else where I could go on a driver educational course and circumvent the 3 points and fine (though the cost of the course would be in excess of £60). If I were spotted doing that by a Police Car rather than a speed camera then I could be given a verbal warning with no fine and no points. As such it is too subjective.
If you look at the number of persistant offenders

A Freedom of Information request submitted by The Sunday Times revealed 31,110 drivers were banned last year for reaching 12 points.
Yet 11,226 people were let off for the same offence and 176 motorists were permitted to carry on driving despite amassing more than 20 points.

So while you modify your behaviour, those 31,110 didn't. What we don't know, or at least not easily, is what % of the population only ever accrues 3 points and no higher.

Similiarly, if you look at the punishments that are given to drivers who run over cyclists, they vary wide and far from giving no punishment to manslaughter.

Similarly, you see people who drive at the limit where they know there are cameras but not elsewhere, or even worse, speeding up and the braking to go through the markings. /rant

[Denzark]

So clearly Wolfy, what you need is the punishment that will affect the most recalcitrant of lawbreakers - sort of aim at the lowest common denominator.

I think we are talking about that tomb/remove tongue/scarabs thing from the first Mummy film, for 40 in a 30.

[Psychosplodge]

Personally I think the best is police enforcement, They can make that decision whether you are just needing a verbal warning, or if you're driving dangerously and need a trip to court.

A camera can't do that.

[Wolfshade]

Yeah sounds reasonable. Of course we could always go the whole hog and go for a law system like the Edo had (TNG: Justice (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Edo)) and make all crimes capital, that would certainly cut reoffending rates and saves money from the prisons... of course there would be issues around correcting incorrect sentencing...

[Psychosplodge]

Well considering in fifteen years there's been more then 150 killed by released murderers would we have f*cked it up and put 150 people to death incorrectly?

[Wolfshade]

At the extreme it sounds fine, then you imagine getting put to death because your tyres are just past the legal limit, or because you forgot to update your address on your driving licence or you put a neighbours cat in a wheelie bin

[Denzark]

Well considering in fifteen years there's been more then 150 killed by released murderers would we have f*cked it up and put 150 people to death incorrectly?

I saw a report by a politician (I want to say Lord Heseltine but may not be him) who did the research and in the time period only 15* persons were incorrectly sentenced. So, were 135 persons needlessly murdered to prevent 15 odd innocent deaths?

* I may not have exact figures or names, nor can i be arsed to trawl back dated DT website articles but is in in the magnitude of 100-150 persons murdered by released murderers.

[Psychosplodge]

Yeah that's probably where I originally read it, I couldn't think who was, thanks.

Well I think the 135 peoples families would probably say so.

[Uncle Nutsy]

I guess spike strips were out of the question for this lady?