Contemplating getting into Fantasy with High Elves

[NockerGeek]

I keep getting bitten by the Warhammer Fantasy bug, and right now I'm contemplating going with High Elves. I like the aesthetics of the army, I'm intrigued by the always-strike-first elite style of army, and having them in the starter set doesn't hurt either. A local store also still has one of last year's Christmas bundles on the shelf, and it's very very tempting to grab it and buff up the force.

So, is that a good place to start? Should I throw in a battalion box to fill in some of the other core units?

[Chronowraith]

I keep getting bitten by the Warhammer Fantasy bug, and right now I'm contemplating going with High Elves. I like the aesthetics of the army, I'm intrigued by the always-strike-first elite style of army, and having them in the starter set doesn't hurt either. A local store also still has one of last year's Christmas bundles on the shelf, and it's very very tempting to grab it and buff up the force.

So, is that a good place to start? Should I throw in a battalion box to fill in some of the other core units?

Other's who actually play high elves can chime in but, from my experience playing against them I'd skip the army box. Why?

Downsides-
Well, the dragon is great if you play large games but less useful when just starting due to it's rather large point cost.
10 Dragon Princes (Knights) are probably overkill for a starting army.
The White Lion Chariot is a great choice but competes with a number of other useful units in that section of the army book. I don't find it does that much more than the other chariot and it's point cost is considerably higher if I recall correctly.

Pluses
White Lions are fantastic. The unit in the box is likely overkill for a starter army, but it gives you room to grow.
I like that it comes with enough Bowmen & Spearmen for multiple units.

Personally, I would buy the battalion box as a starter and try and find the High Elf stuff from Isle of Blood on Ebay which will give you a unit of Seaguard, some Swordmasters, some Light cavalry, a mage, and a griffon mounted lord (also not likely to be used in a small-points game). After that, pick up whatever character models you need and go from there. You will miss the White Lions, but Swordmasters in their present incarnation are pretty awesome too.

If you can't find the Island of Blood HE stuff on Ebay for a reasonable price, find a friend who wants the skaven and split the box. It's a good deal for High Elves but it's a stupendous deal for the Skaven player.

[magickbk]

Sounds to me like the decision has already been made.

I've been trying to put together High Elves for years, but I am a slow painter. The current Army Book makes Spearmen too good to not make the bulk of your army from them. Almost every unit is good, it is just trying to figure out what you have enough points to include. I'd tend to try to take more units as opposed to big things, but everyone is different, and there aren't many army builds that aren't effective.

The only thing I've had trouble with is Chaos Warriors, where I've had to out-magic Tzeentch to really hammer the Warrior blocks enough to take them down.

Here's hoping the next book brings back Maiden Guard...

[el_tigre]

I can't remember what was in the xmas bundle, but the battalion box is helpful. As far as core choices go, can I suggest running Seaguard? You can combine the Spearmen and Archer kits quite happily to represent them, and on the tabletop they're one of the best core units in the game, bringing all the many benifits of spearmen and a not inconsiderable shooting presence in one handy package. Archers, for all their extra 6" of range, just seem like a waste by comparison. If I remember right the Seaguard are only an extra point or 2. Not sure what else you plan on adding, but High Elves are one of the few armies where most of the choices come with good models and are useful on the battlefield too, definetly one of the best fantasy armies from just about any pov.

[NockerGeek]

Well, the decision hasn't been made yet. :) I'm still hemming and hawing and trying to decide if I want to even take the plunge or not. If I do, though, I'm thinking about just going big. 2 IoB's worth of High Elves, a Battalion Box, the Christmas Army Box (the Dragon Princes and White Lions seem too good to pass up at that price), and maybe the Prince and Mage boxes. Maybe not all at once, but that way I have lots of options to work with.

Otherwise, I'd probably be looking at just the 2 IoBs and a Battalion. A little less fun/fewer toys, perhaps, but more reasonable dollar-wise.

[Cherub]

Take the plunge. Take the options as well. I dont know what the standard size game is were you live but here its 2500 points for basic games, tournies and what not. SoM is around 3k and goes up from there. Take the options so you can learn what works for your play style.

[NockerGeek]

We don't really have a standard game size here; I've got a couple of friends with Fantasy armies, but there isn't a large community in my immediate local area. I'd have to see what other stores in the area are running at their events. For me, though, Fantasy is going to be less competitive and more just friendly games. 40K is still my main game; this would just be another side hobby.

[Chronowraith]

If it is just a side game, I'd start small and work your way to big. Take the time to enjoy the hobby and build the army that you want, not the one that everyone tells you is the most competitive.

FYI Small in Fantasy is 1000 to 1500 points. Most tournaments are 2250 or 2500.

You never know what will happen though. The FLGS near me had no one playing Fantasy until a buddy of mine and I started playing there on the 40k night. Now we regularly have 15 to 16 people showing up and the gamestore gave us our own night because of the increasing support.

[NockerGeek]

I think I'll probably end up starting small after all. I did just kind of buy a Realm of Battle board, so my wife vetoed the army box. :P Still, a couple of IoBs and a Battalion would be good start, and I can always pick up the Dragon Princes and White Lions later.

Crunching the numbers, it looks like the IoB HE force isn't legal because of too few points in core choices; is that right? So I'd need 2 to make a legal army anyway?

[Solution9]

The only issue I have with HE is that it's hard to really get a grip on what you want to focus on. What I mean is that they are good in combat, shooting and magic. The thing is though in Fantasy you need to be good at 2 of 3 things: Movement, Shooting and Magic. HE are good at all of that but it gets expensive to be so you need to decide to maximise which areas. So I suggest to think about what troops you want to use to be good at those two areas you choose.

[Chronowraith]

I think you forgot the most important one... Combat. :) You are correct that a mix of those is required but Combat should definitely figure into the equation otherwise Chaos Warriors are boned. They have good magic, mediocre movement, and non-existent shooting.

[Solution9]

I just have to disagree on that point. You see all the armies are good at combat. Most units end up having the same stats or close enough to the point that one doesn't have that much of an edge as the other on average. Yes there are units that are better than others but at the base unit to unit you are getting the same. Rolling the same average. What makes the average different or can be is your movement. If you control movement that is a game changer for combat. What difference does it make if you can have a million attacks if you are hit on the flank or worse the rear? If I can control my opponents movement combat means nothing. Same goes for shooting. If I can shoot at you, reduce your numbers even by one, I just took out a bonus resolution of rank bonus in combat. Magic same concept here. Combat is generic in terms of average. Not much to be gained there. Anyone who controls 2 of the 3 phases can potentially dominate the game (movement, magic and/or shooting).

Again about HE (which this thread is about), they are good at all three phases. It's just tricky to figure out which way you want to go. Do you want to dominate movement and magic? Personally I think that is a great combo. Do you want to own Shooting and Magic? Etc. That's what you would want to figure out. I would not stretch it out by trying to balance all three because HE are expensive point wise.

[Chronowraith]

Not all armies are created equal when it comes to combat. Take Skaven for example. Most of their units are terrible at combat. They win either through attrition or through static combat resolution modifiers. LIkewise, if I charge my unit of clanrats into the flank of the Chaos Warriors, I stand a better chance to win the combat, but the Chaos Warriors are still more likely to win because they are THAT much better at combat than my clanrats.

Again, I think if you only look at the 3 phases you are shorting yourself as some armies simply do not have the capability to dominate in certain phases of the game, yet they can still choose different playstyles and score reliable wins. I've seen Chaos Warriors with no magic and they do just fine without dominating two of the phases. Same goes for Chaos Daemons. I've seen Khorne armies with no magic (or tzeentch units) rip through an enemies army simply because of the combat prowess of their units. Minimizing this and saying that models are equal in combat is simply untrue. I can take 300 points of skaven clanrats against 300 points of chaos warriors and I guarantee you that the Chaos Warriors will will the lion's share of the fights. They key here is that you have to play to an army's strengths. My clanrats are not going to win by themselves... I use them and my slaves to lock units in combat and then charge them in the flanks with other units. This isn't "dominating" the movement phase... it's attrition warfare... i.e. "Throw enough bodies at it and I'll win".

[magickbk]

The last time I played against Warriors of Chaos with my High Elves, I had to rely HEAVILY on magic, and one extremely well placed/timed/lucky charge from my Silver Helms.

[Albavar]

Did you ever get in? I was just going to mention that you are better off buying a single IoB and 10 extra Lothern Seaguard from GW. Otherwise you have a unit of 17, not 20 because 3 of the guys on one sprew can only be made as a command group.