Noise Marines and Salvo weapons solution to make them able to assault after shooting.

[Daemonette666]

This would only be for friendly games only. You could not use it in competitions or tournaments, but if your opponent agrees, you could make a local rule giving any noise marine or CSM of Slaanesh armed with a sonic blaster/salvo weapon the relentless rule.

They will then be shooting at full range and with maximum shots because the relentless rule treats them as having not moved even if they have moved. This would be better than the other option where they can not assault after shooting.

Alternately you can change the sonic blasters profile back to Assault 2/ Heavy 3 pinning, even if it doe not ignore cover then.

I really miss using my old tactics of shooting then charging with my sonic blaster armed noise marines. I know the new codex has redesigned them for a reason, but they are not good at assaulting anymore. They are a poor mans substitute for Plague marines for the role of objective holding. Plague Marines are now better in assault than Noise Marines.

As I have found out, Noise Marines, even those with FNP from an Icon die very quickly when AP2 or AP3 template weapons are shot at them while they defend an objective in cover. Allowing Noise Marines to be taken as Havoc Squads of 10 with up to 4 Blast Masters would have been great. They could have made a better fire support unit then.

I have been taking Nurgle based armies more and more lately because of the sonic blasters.

[DrLove42]

See I don't have a problem with not assaulting. Each of the 4 legion troops has a role

Khorne Berserkers Assault
Noise Marines Suppress and Ignore Cover
Plague Marines Hold Objectives and poison big things
1K Sons hold position and provide AP3 firepower

Each one has their own role. None is a multitool, thats what normal marines are for. They're good at one thing, not necessarily to the cost of everything else, but Berserkers can't shoot really. 1KSons don't assault.

[Daemonette666]

In the last codex, Noise Marines could both shoot and assault. They were not all that good at holding the objectives once they took them, but you used Plague Marines for that.

[ElectricPaladin]

In the last codex, Noise Marines could both shoot and assault. They were not all that good at holding the objectives once they took them, but you used Plague Marines for that.

Yeah, and in the last codex the Sisters of Battle had a codex. Your point?

Things change. I don't think noise marines have suddenly become bad or pointless. They have a role, as DrLove said. They fill that role admirably. I respect that you wish they had a different role, but that's not your place to decide. I wish fire warriors could carry special weapons. I wish land raiders cost 100 points and had the Skyfire and Interceptor USRs. I wish I had a pony. Well, Fire Warriors don't get special weapons, land raiders aren't anti-aircraft, and I live in Oakland and can't afford a pony. Noise marines are for laying down decently powerful covering fire that ignores cover. If that's not something you need in your army, don't field 'em.

[Daemonette666]

I wish I had a trillion dollar, but exponentially stating that you wish for things and making the wishes sound even more extreme and imaginative does not make your reply sound funny or logical.

I have already said that the codex writer has redesigned their role which I do not like. They were traditionally used to be move shoot suppress and assault. What I was proposing was a home rule that brings them back to their old role. I believe their weapons profile should never have been tampered with. Keep sonic blasters at 5 points each, but also keep them at assault 2/ heavy 3. My proposal mentioned using a local house rule, not a rule that would be widely accepted and used for competitions or tournaments.

Dr Love said that no model should be a multi-tool. Codex 3.5 Noise Marines were still poor objective holders. Designing a legion theme specific force and being able to make it still flexible and multi-taskable has always been easier with Emperor's Children. The new codex forces you to have to make concessions and mix up the different chaos powers in one force. That is something I hate about it. I have invested a lot of $$ in building an army (Battle Company) of Emperor's Children all armed with noise weapons.

To have that army become almost useless with the 6th ed codex is a great disappointment, and it now mostly sits on the shelf collecting dust. My Nurgle army is getting more use now a days, but when a Raven Guard army with 2 Devastator squads can almost table my noise marine, I know when to retire an army until the next codex comes out.

Yes you will probably tell me to change with the times, and other so called words of wisdom. I was proposing a couple of alternate options to bring the noise marines back into line with their old role for local friendly games, and wanting to see which seemed the better option. Perhaps comments on points values, change the sonic blaster to its old stats rather than give them relentless, but increase the points cost to 5 for the sonic blaster, and so on.

I was asking on feedback on rule options to implement for local games. The rule options I was proposing for my personal games between my friends and myself were not going to be used in battles against you.

I have the right to decide to use my noise marines in their "old" traditional role of shooting, pinning assault specialists. I have a right to disagree with how they changed their weapons as well in the new codex.

I also hate the fact that they got rid of lash of submission. It was a useful psychic power - if it actually got to work though. It had to contend with psychic test, deny the witch/ nullify rolls, and needing to hit with the casters BS before you could use it. It was annoying to an enemy who normally bunked down into cover, like ticks embedded deeply under the skin. I did not originally mention that, because it is something I know I could not implement it in friendly games with my mates/buddies. The option to change the weapon rules for the sonic blaster back to its old stats was more reasonable. It should not have created such a ridiculous reply from you, in which you try to belittle my idea for a local rule for friendly games between mates.

If a mate of mine asked me to allow him to upgrade his space marines to have bolter, bolt pistol and close combat weapon for +1 point, I would be happy to allow him to do so. I would also ask him to allow me to use Plasma cannons and Multi-Meltas in my Havoc squads for an appropriate points cost.

I love using CSM, especially Noise Marines and Emperors Children. I hate using uncorrupted imperial forces - space marines most of all. Although I have had to base my project Pre-Heresy Thousand Sons army on the vanilla marine list because I hate Grey Knights and until I get the first Heresy era book, and the later book with the thousand sons in it, there are no other options that I can see as feasible.

[ElectricPaladin]

I'm sorry if you failed to appreciate my attempt at subtle humor. I wasn't looking to offend.

The thing is, I just don't have a lot of patience for this kind of wishlisting. The game is what the game is. If someone came to me with this houserule, I'd tell him to find someone else to play with. I can't be bothered to learn the Chaos codex well enough to decide if it's a good idea or a bad idea. That's the point of having a shared rules set invented by a creative team full of (dubious) experts. They do all the work so we don't have to.

If you can find people to play with you using these rules, more power to you. But, really, in that case, the person you've got to convince of the rules' effectiveness is that person, not us. All the arguments here aren't going to make a different when you're making stuff up at the game table. If you find someone who lets you use these rules and it makes the game more fun for both of you, congrats. Go to town.

If you ask here, then we're talking about the public space of gaming - this being a public forum. I think, out here, you're not going to get a lot of sympathy or useful feedback. Make up whatever you like, bring it to the table, and see what happens. That's the only test of your houserule that really matters.

[DWest]

I feel the need to chime in here, as I have ~15 games in with Chaos since the new CSM book came out and my Noise Marines have done me a solid every single time. I always run the squad in a more-or-less middle of deployment zone position, and they destroy anything which comes in reach. The Blastmaster is what makes the difference- it is, imo, the best weapon in the game and it makes the Noise Marines a threat regardless of who I'm fighting. This in turn leads people to try and assault the Noise Marines to shut 'em up, and then the Doom Siren and 20+ shots on Overwatch ruin that plan in a hurry.

What I think would be a better solution for your problem 666 would be if they let Mark of Slannesh champions buy Doom Sirens- CCWs are expensive to add to Noise Marines, but a Pistol/CCW squad of regular Marines + Doom Siren makes a solid assault unit while still keeping the Slannesh theme.

[Wildcard]

I bet there are some subtle changes in every codex that every player would like to see. While some would like to have just over powered stuff, there are also those who would like to change stuff just more used to their playstyle / view of fluff.

I for one would like GK to be able to use stormbolters as second ccw on the close combat (or even on the first round of combat when they charge).

There are lots of good points in this discussion. Its not us who you need to ask for permission to force that houserule. Most likely none of us will never play against you (not because we dont want - just that our paths will most likely never cross). However, you could have chosen a different approach to the post you made first: You could have asked us help and tips how to apply such houserule in your gaming group
- Whats the true effect of that change
- What could you give up to be allowed that change
- What would your oppoenents be able to change / add / do to balance that out

- ETC..