Labels

[Psychosplodge]

Now this might offend, but that's not really the intention.

At the weekend I had someone describe themselves as pansexual
upon them explaining what it meant to them I said "so you're Bi" to which they took great offence.

Now regardless of if you're trans or cis (I think Gott said the opposite is cis) surely you are either straight, gay(/lesbian if you want a separate label) or bi. Surely this idea of pansexual and all these other sub genres are just even more divisive, or maybe they're the hipsters of sexuality? Can't we just call a spade a spade and not a mechanical earth/other substance transportation implement?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

inb4 label rage....

[Deadlift]

I don't do labels, people are just people. The only label I look for is xxxl.

[Psychosplodge]

Exactly, xxxl tells you everything relevant, not the tshirts philosophical outlook on the wearing of clothes...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Hahahahaha! I'm going with Deadlift on this one.

[DrLove42]

I need an XL for the length....but not the waist.

Trousers are really hard to find in a 34" leg, but a 28-30" waist....

[Psychosplodge]

I have similar trouble at the other end of the 34" leg spectrum...

[Wolfshade]

I think the concern is that bisexuality, dictates that there are two sexes male and female and so to be bisexual you must like both male and female. This deffinition then would preclude those who are indeterminate or transgender. So people who would view the world though a pan gender view would say that the seperation of the sexes/gender is a continiuos spectrum, and not necessarily linear at that, and so to say they are bisexual would be to reject their world view.

[Wolfshade]

I need an XL for the length....but not the waist.

Trousers are really hard to find in a 34" leg, but a 28-30" waist....

That's what tailors are for...

[DrLove42]

That's what tailors are for...

Yes cos I just happen to **** money

[Psychosplodge]

I think the concern is that bisexuality, dictates that there are two sexes male and female and so to be bisexual you must like both male and female. This deffinition then would preclude those who are indeterminate or transgender. So people who would view the world though a pan gender view would say that the seperation of the sexes/gender is a continiuos spectrum, and not necessarily linear at that, and so to say they are bisexual would be to reject their world view.



It's inclusive on the basis it includes all the recognised sexes.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

And eat gold.

[Deadlift]

I need an XL for the length....but not the waist.

Trousers are really hard to find in a 34" leg, but a 28-30" waist....

Dude you think you have troubles try walking into a high street shop and finding a 52 to 54 inch chest. 19 inch neck shirt. :)

Back to the real issue though, I can understand people giving themselves a label, ie an identity so they can feel right about themselves. It lets others maybe understand who they are and what they are about. But I think it's also importent to take everyone at face value.

[Wolfshade]

My suit alterations are free....

And there is a chap that does adjustments, depending on the work required for between £5-£40. The £40 was for a bridesmaids dress that needed almost completly redisgned, the original was a mess of different shapes and forced an over the shoulder strap to be on the shoulder, it was a mess but when it was finished looked very nice.

[Deadlift]

Yes cos I just happen to **** money

You sir, just made my day :)

[Deadlift]

My suit alterations are free....

And there is a chap that does adjustments, depending on the work required for between £5-£40. The £40 was for a bridesmaids dress that needed almost completly redisgned, the original was a mess of different shapes and forced an over the shoulder strap to be on the shoulder, it was a mess but when it was finished looked very nice.

You in a bridesmaids dress, brilliant.

[Psychosplodge]

It's just all the new trendy labels that basicly describe something that already exists (suppose it doesn't help that the individual relabels themselves once a week with huge fanfair to tell everyone)

[Deadlift]

It's just all the new trendy labels that basicly describe something that already exists (suppose it doesn't help that the individual relabels themselves once a week with huge fanfair to tell everyone)

You mean like Pariahs, becoming Lychguard ?

[DrLove42]

Its becasue they're hipsters. They invent a new name for the selves, then a few other people start using it, its too mainstream so they need a new one.

last new one I heard was Pseudo-Grebos. Apparantly its someone who dresses half goth, half emo but dislikes goth and emo culture and music

[Gotthammer]

Labels like pansexual are important as the LGBTA community isn't one big ol' happy rainbow family (http://queeronqueerhatelion.tumblr.com/). There are lesbians who hate transmen as 'traitors' to their gender, gay/lesbian people who don't believe bi people exist or that transfolk are 'wrong' and all the normal human nastiness you get in any community.
Pansexual is a term meaning you can fall in love with anyone. Not just a guy or a girl, which is what bi is taken to mean. This could be used to cover trans people, androdgynous folks, genderqueer, asexual and people who don't even fit into any of those boxes.
That's just the nitty gritty definition, and even then a label is not necessarily "correct", they are often very personal. I recently saw an argument between some folk after one person described themselves as asexual, but 'technically' would be called aromantic as they have sex, but don't feel romantic love. When some people were a bit agressive in questioning this the asexual person got offended as it was essentially questioning the core of their personal identity. They only identified as asexual as they hadn't been exposed to other terms in their rural hometown, but the label gave them a sense of identity.

It can be incredibly comforting to find a single word to explain the otherness you've felt your entire life and know that you're not alone. It is a sense of kniship as well. When you meet someone and they mention they play 40k, we as gamers get an understanding of each other that non-gamer's don't. Similarly when you meet someone who has been through the same struggles as you there's a bond of sorts, and there does come a tremendous comfort from just knowing that you're not alone just by there being a word to describe you (if there's a word, it must be real, right?).


Of course not everyone likes labels, some find them divisive or overly complicated, but like the Fellblade if you don't like a thing, don't use a thing. The importance of labels is that they should be self applied - nobody likes saying one thing about themselves and being told they are completely wrong and it should be another. At the very least it's common courtesy to use someone's label if you really need to.


And as for types of sexualities I know of (and claim no great knowledge of this area):
Straight (like people of opposite gender)
Gay (like people of same gender)
Bi (like both genders)
Asexual (feel love, but little or no sexual desire)
Demisexual (feel love, but no sexual attraction without a deep emotional bond)
Pansexual (attracted to anyone)
Heteromantic (attracted to people of the opposite gender, be they cis or trans)
Homoromantic (attracted to people of the same gender, be they cis or trans)
Aromantic (do not feel romantic love, but experience sexual attraction)

Now there is quite a bit of room for crossover, as a guy may see themselves as straight rather than heteromantic if they love or are attracted to a traswoman. And that's their choice which one they use.



Edit:


It's just all the new trendy labels that basicly describe something that already exists (suppose it doesn't help that the individual relabels themselves once a week with huge fanfair to tell everyone)

Except not quite - that's like saying there's no need for different names for glues - I mean superglue, PVA, plastic glue, epoxy... they all stick stuff together so why the need for more definition?
It's necessary because when you're trying to join two bits of wood you'll need to get something different to if you're sticking a 2x4 to a piece of perspex. Sometimes just saying glue works, but sometimes it won't.

And I'm not sure what your end comment refers to, as that's probably something to do with that person (assuming you mean the person in the original anecdote), not the concept of labels itself. But, yes, the LGBT community does get its share of attention seekers, hipsters and posers like any other group - we are still people under everything else ;)

[Wolfshade]

I think in the context that I have infered from your statement 'splogy it seems that you were trying to be understanding and not judgemental so to go ff one one for not using its prefered term is a little precious...
People have used labels to group and subdivide all the time however. Think of the rock scene and how you have all the different groups...

[Psychosplodge]

Yeah someone told me not everything is pink either, I was most disappointed. I honestly don't feel that so many are needed, but I think it was more the hipster like individual rather than the label that rubbed me up the wrong way upon reflection.

Yeah but we're all rock/metal to outsiders lol

[Denzark]

I'm not convinced pansexual is even a word. I believe legally and physically there is a point where transgender persons become one or other. I don't believe they can be both at once unless they are pukka androgynous/hermaphrodites.

Therefore not convinced you need a word for loving anbody as opposed to both. It seems lingually nugatory and just elitism by them that want a special label. Actually you can write 'pansexual' and what you actually would mean is 'I ain't choosy'. On that note and on some of the horrors I have squired in my younger days as a Swordsman I must be pansexual...

[Gotthammer]

I believe legally and physically there is a point where transgender persons become one or other.

Somewhat true.
There is a point where some trans people can legally change their gender, but not everyone reaches that point for various reasons (often plain financial - surgeries/treatments alone [ignoring hormones] can cost up to $100,000, and then you have mandatory psychiatrist visits, therapists, and so on), and it varies significantly from country to country what the requirements are. In some parts of Europe they require a person to be sterilised before they can be legally recognised as another gender (so you could have a "legal" woman with a penis but no testicles), whilst in Australia you have to have "lower" surgery and can't already be married to have your legal gender changed.

And not all trans people want to get full reassignment surgery anyway, so you can have people who present as and consider themselves one gender but have the genitalia of the other. Legally they will be considered whatever they were born as. And that won't stop some people still identifying as a transwoman or a transman, but others prefer to live entirely as their "new" gender and take on the label of man or woman.

Then on top of that you have genderqueer people (who alternate their gender), and androgynous folk who are neither or both at the same time:


http://youtu.be/yD94CV7kLHE


Relying on legal definitions for this sort of thing is generally a bad idea as people don't fit easily into little boxes. For a better look that I can give this is a good video (http://youtu.be/UXI9w0PbBXY), and so is this one (http://youtu.be/58JMQmS-vno) (though the narration may cause you to pray for death, the info is good).


And 'zark, your definition isn't too far off for some people. I know a girl who put it "if I love someone, I love them. If I want to bang them, I want to bang them. I'm attracted to them, not a label".