Eldar Rumour Titbits

[DrLove42]

I think my biggest bugbear with the new dex is the incredibly diminished physic defence.

In the codex we (almost sadly) wave farewell to tomorrow, Runes of Warding were (a little OP) king in stopping enemy powers. Runes of Witnessing nearly guarenteed ours going off. And Ghosthlems gave us the only save available against perils (except for FNP)

Not we have a one use power that lets us add +2 ONCE per game, before the dice roll on a deny the witch. We have one shot runes that can reroll a single test if we want to. And we can spend our warp points to ignore the perils.

Physic hoods are just as effective at stopping physic powers, and they're a permanent effect, not a ONE SHOT you choose.

Mastery level 3 as standard is awesome, but Warlocks at Ld8 and piss poor defences means we're still not that great at it

[Aldavaer]

When looking at the massive number of units important for a working warhost and the points they cost it is now absolutely obvious to me that GW wants the regular games to be 2,5 - 3k games with 2 FOCs. The massive number of attractive or essential HS and FA leaves no alternate conclusion.

I tend to agree with you here, and it is in their interest as you need to buy more figures. I tend to play in 1000-1500 point games and I think careful selection will be the order of the day, particularly at 1000 points to keep enough troops alive to seize and hold objectives.

Having said that from what I have read so far the new Codex will let me play Eldar the way i think they should be played. Move fast, hit hard and keep your opponent off-balance and wondering where the next blow will fall.

[Eldur]

Acrobatics is +3 to run but not +3 to charge... bullsh**. Well, at least I won't care buying a Wave Serpent for banshees.. they can move, run and move, charge in the next turn: 6"+1D6"(rerolled)+3"+6"+2D6" (rerolled). This means charging into enemy deployment zone in the second turn (while shooting a bit on the move)... so the same as having jump-packs, nothing more.

[lattd]

So first turn with banshees run up shoot something hide in cover second turn move out shoot, and assault, thats a pretty rapid assault unit... First turn move of 10-15 inches, second turn 6 move an 2-12 inch charge range so good dice rolls and you can move 39 inches in two turns :0 so potential charge range of 18-39 within the second turn.

[pauljc]

The Exarch is the only decent thing about the unit, but she is still useless. The old Banshee mask boosted them to I10, negated defensie terrain bonuses and didn't require a LD test. Banshees no longer have grenades so they will still most likely be striking at I1 simultaneously with their opponent. They are a glass cannon, they rely on killing things before they can strike back. They can now do so less reliably than before when they needed A Doomseer.

For them to be effective you have to rely completely on luck. The Banshees need to be in cover and in a position to charge an enemy out of cover. You need several warlocks with just the right powers in the vicinity. Said enemy needs to lack template weapons but even so against a unit of Marines you will still lose a few to Overwatch and then have to rely on at best S4 to take down the rest.

For the same money (near two hundred points) I could take a much more effective unit. They are terrible.

Edit: In other words, if you are very very lucky he Banshee might do something another unit can do more effectively and with fewer casualties no luck required. Believe me I would like nothing more than to have viable Banshees even if they weren't stellar. But the fact is there is no point taking them. Better off taking Scorpions or putting the points into any one of the numerous fantastic units we now have.

IF they were errata'd to have grenades then with their extra speed then they could be a viable unit for mopping up and tying up weakened units so the shooty parts of the army can move on to fresh targets. That probably won't happen.

Ok, that's fair. Granted the lack of grenades hurts their abilities. But I still contend that they are viable. It will just require a new approach to how you combine their assaults, the buff and debuff, how you control your enemy's movement, etc. I also think Pinning is going to become important to Eldar now. Eldar charging at gun-lines is always a bad idea. :)

But yeah, I can now appreciate it why you are disappointed. I contend that they will still be viable, but will need a re-think. Gonna have to play it to be sure. I think it's a fun time for us Eldar players.

[mr_draken]

So first turn with banshees run up shoot something hide in cover second turn move out shoot, and assault, thats a pretty rapid assault unit... First turn move of 10-15 inches, second turn 6 move an 2-12 inch charge range so good dice rolls and you can move 39 inches in two turns :0 so potential charge range of 18-39 within the second turn.

you forgot they can run and shoot, not one or the other. so add 9 inches whith acrobatics

[pauljc]

I think my biggest bugbear with the new dex is the incredibly diminished physic defence.

In the codex we (almost sadly) wave farewell to tomorrow, Runes of Warding were (a little OP) king in stopping enemy powers. Runes of Witnessing nearly guarenteed ours going off. And Ghosthlems gave us the only save available against perils (except for FNP)

Not we have a one use power that lets us add +2 ONCE per game, before the dice roll on a deny the witch. We have one shot runes that can reroll a single test if we want to. And we can spend our warp points to ignore the perils.

Physic hoods are just as effective at stopping physic powers, and they're a permanent effect, not a ONE SHOT you choose.

Mastery level 3 as standard is awesome, but Warlocks at Ld8 and piss poor defences means we're still not that great at it

Yeah, I definitely agree with this. The much diminished returns on the Runes, as well as being one use only.. that was a pisser to read. Especially considering a Rune Priest can just laugh off psychic powers within 12"..

[Aramel]

Lattd, I don't know about you but I've played a lot of games against Daemons. Daemonettes and even fiends rarely reach me with more than a couple models. In one game I fought a list with 30 Daemonettes, 30 plaguebearers, 2 Soulgrinders and some heralds at 2k (may have been 40 Daemonettes). In any case only one unit of Daemonettes made it to combat with something like 6 models before being smacked down by Guardians.

Now imagine banshees walking across the table, with only a 4+ save, 50% more expensive and elite and no fodder to absorb fire. Sure they are marginally better against certain enemies, but even then they have fewer attacks, WS4 and no deep-strike. They will be shot to death every single game.

[lattd]

But they cannot assault if they run, and I expect they would be charging the second turn, and remember run is d6 so minimum of 4 on a run so thats 10 inches minimum in the first turn as a back field counter assault unit dealing with anything in the back field easily.

Is it confirmed that its just +3 on runs or is it +3 on all movements?

[Leirgoth]

Hi,

Even that would be good, only if they did have the grenades... or having assault vehicles, or having a better save (of any kind), or... well, too much posibilities, and yet none did appear.

Its such a loss not to have the chance to use banshee models (i convert/make my own minis), i could use them "counting as"... not good enough

Maybe it will be fixed, i really think the autor forgot the "count as having assault grenades" in the rules.


Apart from that, what i've seen in the codex overall its a feeling that the author restrained the codex from being too much overpowered, often ive seen it as taking away the possibilities that the units could have been; those all or none weapon changes, not to 2 sun cannons, wraithblades and wraithguard in the same unit, warlocks not being able to join aspects, not even a single upgrade to make serpents assault vehicles... (damn, the "one use upgrade" could have been that one)

Im not saying that the codex is bad, its just it is not all it could be... am i wrong?

[legalsmash]

Looks like I was wrong about Illic. According to pictures of the book on 4chan, he's an IC with infiltrate special rules. This means he can infiltrate WG right up the butt of your opponent. I really don't see how this is in any way fair or right.

Chan seems to change its opinion pretty much momentarily. If Ilic does do that, I give it a month or less before its FAQed so we don't buttpoke all the other armies with AP2 Flamers. That month would be GLOOOOORRIOUS however.


Re here, my thoughts in bold :

that's gonna be FAQed then... unless we're missing an existing rule ofc :-)

Also, rumor resume for me:
I actually like almost all I hear about the codex - even those things that could have gone better power-wise usually make sense, and there are enough intriguing possibilities in there to test out, so I'm not too bothered. With a few exceptions...
-Banshees: having their masks work like dirge casters would have been both useful and fluffy/keeping in line with other wargear... as it seems to stand, I don't really see myself using them much more than I do now, which is not at all sadly

dirges iirc are vehicle armory upgrades for chaos vehicles. If the infantry units got one base allowing them to do that, it would be pretty OP. Granted, Banshees got the short end of the stick, but it seems to me that their role and that of the scorpion reversed. The SS are now are infantry blenders and the banshees work well to serve as countercharge units. I'll see what happens when I field them, and short of playing GK, and DA, I dont really run into too many terminator heavy forces.

-Guardians and their 12" range while going up in price - yes Bladestorm makes them decently deadly, but same points costs as Fire Warriors? really?

Fire warriors have WS 2 and BS 3 though no?crappy initiative and slightly better (but nonetheless penetrable armor. Sure they can fire support, but they still have to hit and then wound and then armor, save guardsman, ork boys, and tyranid gribblies. I'd pay nine for an aspect statline, buffable WS, buffable armor, AND being able to use a shotgun that is AP2 1/6 of the time.... just saying, blood claws are 15 per, WS3/BS3, ****ty leadership and require baby sitting. Its not BAD IMHO just... paying for what you are getting... they are supposed to be an almost extinct race of ballarinas right?-



and most of all, the Warlord Traits (at least those that I saw in here a few days ago... might be that's out of date - could someone maybe post them again?) seem really really boring, bland and un-fluffy, especially considering the great job GW did on the Tau ones (and Daemons from what I hear - don't have a Daemon player round here...), that's a real missed opportunity (unless again I've got some wrong ones in my head...)

I think there are like 2 that are worthwhile, the remainder are pretty forgettable. Asurmen being able to take three is pretty nasty though.

[Sonikgav]

Illic cant do the flamers up the butt trick anyway.

Its similar to Wolfscouts using behind enemy lines with a charachter. Illic may be able to grant his unit infiltrate as uts a USR, but cant grant his special rule. They could infiltrate with him, but yhey would have to obey the normal infiltrate rules.

Its essentially the 'move as fast as your slowest model' rule.

[Aramel]

Is the limitation preventing Phoenix Lords from joining warriors of other aspects still in place? Could open up some nice combinations. Karandras seems to be much better, can't really complain about a wieldly power fist, though I am personally very disapointed about the change to mandi-blasters. I know it is a str 3 hit at I10, but is it auto hit? In that case it might be decenct.

[Teffe]

Illic cant do the flamers up the butt trick anyway.

Its similar to Wolfscouts using behind enemy lines with a charachter. Illic may be able to grant his unit infiltrate as uts a USR, but cant grant his special rule. They could infiltrate with him, but yhey would have to obey the normal infiltrate rules.

Its essentially the 'move as fast as your slowest model' rule.

Solution: Disband from squad?

[D6Damager]

I tend to agree with you here, and it is in their interest as you need to buy more figures. I tend to play in 1000-1500 point games and I think careful selection will be the order of the day, particularly at 1000 points to keep enough troops alive to seize and hold objectives.

I agree with this as well. The last few codexes feel like they should be played with a minimum of 2,000 points. Most people are still fearful of double FOC abuse and for newer players the general price tag of playing those size or larger games.

[Caitsidhe]

Games Workshop is largely out of luck on that front. :) Between their price increases and 6th Edition mechanics, most people (at least in my part of the world) have made 1850 or less the new standard.

[AlaitocJib]

Ok, that's fair. Granted the lack of grenades hurts their abilities. But I still contend that they are viable. It will just require a new approach to how you combine their assaults, the buff and debuff, how you control your enemy's movement, etc. I also think Pinning is going to become important to Eldar now. Eldar charging at gun-lines is always a bad idea. :)

But yeah, I can now appreciate it why you are disappointed. I contend that they will still be viable, but will need a re-think. Gonna have to play it to be sure. I think it's a fun time for us Eldar players.

This may be a stupid question, but the unit that banshees charge is reduced by 5 initiative...and is it only against banshees or reduced period. Because if it was absolute...I could see charging in with say...scorpions and them striking at initiative to help clean up or thin the lines before or at the same time as banshees going. Sure you're using two units in one assault. But if you could flat out wipe out a unit in one assault with few to no casualties...wouldnt that pay for itself?

[Sonikgav]

Yea its 1800 in my area and persinally id hate if it went to 2k. Whats the point in large point games where you can just take every toy your codex has to offer? I actually prefer the difficult choices smaller points forces you to make.

[Bitrider]

No counter attack. So they lost a lot and gained +3" Run.

I defended Banshees all though 5th edition, said they were still an excellent unit if you used them properly even if they needed a Farseer to be really effective. They are indefensible now, they are just terrible.

Did you ever send a note to GW? Any response?

[eldargal]

Did you ever send a note to GW? Any response?

Not yet, waiting for my copy of the codex.

[Defenestratus]

Not yet, waiting for my copy of the codex.

EG,

I honestly think that you might have more luck contacting FW and asking them to release a model that "fixes" banshees in some way - it would use the banshee kit as a baseline and get some pokey-bits added.

OFC it would pay the FW premium but it might be able to get you what you want - female model warriors worth playing with.

[chicop76]

Lattd, I don't know about you but I've played a lot of games against Daemons. Daemonettes and even fiends rarely reach me with more than a couple models. In one game I fought a list with 30 Daemonettes, 30 plaguebearers, 2 Soulgrinders and some heralds at 2k (may have been 40 Daemonettes). In any case only one unit of Daemonettes made it to combat with something like 6 models before being smacked down by Guardians.

Now imagine banshees walking across the table, with only a 4+ save, 50% more expensive and elite and no fodder to absorb fire. Sure they are marginally better against certain enemies, but even then they have fewer attacks, WS4 and no deep-strike. They will be shot to death every single game.



I ran 40 daemonettes with two heralds, a thirster, 20 hounds w/ heralds, grinder, and 2 skull cannons

I took the 20 hounds since I would have around 10-20 deamonettes make it across the board. That's with +4 cover due to fuins, 3+ invulnerable saves, and endurance, and invisibility at times. Once I put the hounds in I can get the bulk of them across now, while my +3 invulnerable hounds die a horrible death. Hounds with endurance and invisibility would be nice, but since hounds hit you hard it cost it means less psychic goodies. With endurance they can be rather hard to kill off.

The fun part about the hounds when my opponent doesn't remove from the closest I simply allocate wounds to fresh hounds. My opponent does that's cheating and I say yes like how that plasma gunner, melta gunner, and sarge didn't die due to being the cloest t the gunner. I assumed you could allocate however you like. I'll properly allocate if you remove the porper models from the board. With this they either happily remove the closest or allow me to allocate which is broken with endurance.

I do at one point fear getting blown away. However 3 pie plates hitting you every turn and 60 models that can easily assault in turn 2 half the time with a blood thirster. I always try to go first and talk people out of letting me go second. By going first I can buff my hounds. If I go second my hounds have a good chance of not being there.

[Badtucker]

got my eldar codex now. looks like a glorious book. theres more in here than has been leaked me thinks :)

[Caitsidhe]

got my eldar codex now. looks like a glorious book. theres more in here than has been leaked me thinks :)

Not much actually. The leak was pretty darn thorough.

[Badtucker]

Not much actually. The leak was pretty darn thorough.

true true, not too much, but some...still nice to see it all clarified and in front of me :)

[colinsherlow]

There a link with unit point costs and upgrade points. Searching through all this is a *****. Mostly interested in the wraith knight

Thanks

[D6Damager]

Not much actually. The leak was pretty darn thorough.

Yes it was. I was surprised by how many page scans turned up on the web despite the recent Faeit212 takedown. "Can't stop the signal" I suppose....;)

[Defenestratus]

Yes it was. I was surprised by how many page scans turned up on the web despite the recent Faeit212 takedown. "Can't stop the signal" I suppose....;)

You can't put the internet in a box.

[eris]

TBH i think GW could do with changing tack.. I assume that they want to keep things under-wraps to maximise excitement on release day, but if they did some of their own preview 'leaks' of certain units then they would likely generate even more interest (especially among those tho aren't on 4chan at 2am ;) ) probably boost pre-orders of those units and i don't think it'd really diminish peoples release day excitement in any way.

[deinol]

Fun fact. It only takes one banshee mask to reduce the enemy unit by -5. So Autarch + Harlies or Striking Scorpions are better than Banshees. :p

[Mr Mystery]

TBH i think GW could do with changing tack.. I assume that they want to keep things under-wraps to maximise excitement on release day, but if they did some of their own preview 'leaks' of certain units then they would likely generate even more interest (especially among those tho aren't on 4chan at 2am ;) ) probably boost pre-orders of those units and i don't think it'd really diminish peoples release day excitement in any way.

Assuming of course the current leaks aren't their doing...you know, give the internet 'half a teacake' lob on by thinking they're sticking it to the man.....

[eldargal]

Fun fact. It only takes one banshee mask to reduce the enemy unit by -5. So Autarch + Harlies or Striking Scorpions are better than Banshees. :p
Yup, for less than the cost of a squad of Banshees you get a multi-purpose character with an army wide ability who can use the Banshees only vaguely useful ability.

[eris]

Assuming of course the current leaks aren't their doing...you know, give the internet 'half a teacake' lob on by thinking they're sticking it to the man.....

I think it's unlikely to have been an approved 'faux covert leak' as I don't think they'd release the full 'dex, in as much detail as you could basically play the new Eldar dex from what has been put out before release. If you just cobble it together coherently, you don't need to buy the codex. Plus if they were ever found to have been leaking stuff in this manner, it'd seriously hurt their copyright position as it's being released without the appropriate context to maintain their legal ownership of it.

But as an example, if they'd just put the codex entry for the Wraithblades on the website and written an article about how awesome they were, along with the pictures and some tactical insights then they'd have generated way more buzz about the unit and increased their sales of them significantly for not really very much effort at all.

[Caitsidhe]

Yup, for less than the cost of a squad of Banshees you get a multi-purpose character with an army wide ability who can use the Banshees only vaguely useful ability.

Perhaps that is how we can spin it cool in a few months... that the surviving Banshees all became Autarchs and disbanded as individual units to spread themselves among the other types of units. :D That is as good a reason as any to explain the sudden vanishing from armies all over the world. :D

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I am really enjoying the codex. I think people will like it. :D

[Mkvenner]

You can't put the internet in a box.

GW: "We're going to need a bigger box."

[CoolKidRoc]

I got my book last night :D

So I noticed the EJB have Battle Focus, but they can't run... any thoughts?

[cebalrai]

I got my book last night :D

So I noticed the EJB have Battle Focus, but they can't run... any thoughts?


I know, I saw that too. But codex trumps core rules and the codex says jetbikes can run with that power. It might get errata'd but then again maybe not. It's not the easiest thing to errata because GW saying "okay that power is completely gone from that unit" would be extremely heavy-handed. But it's also hard to change it into something else because so many other units use that power.

I bet it gets FAQ'd to say that they can run with it because that's the only decent way to handle it IMO. After all we're just talking about an average of 3.5" here and the jetbikes are already going to be moving anyway in the assault phase.

[Defenestratus]

My new deathstar will be a full 10 strong seer council. Farseer with shard, and Baharroth.

Likely 2+/4++/2+cover with boost, hopefully fortuned, IC with a wiffle bat, and hit and run.

Warlord trait that gives your dudes no-scatter doesn't have the "they have to have been on the table for a round" precondition so drop baharroth down first with no scatter, then follow it up with a squad of warp spiders that don't scatter in the same round.

[Mr Mystery]

wiffle bat? Really dude?

Use your big-boy words please.

[eris]

I got my book last night :D

So I noticed the EJB have Battle Focus, but they can't run... any thoughts?

At the moment it's utterly useless. Battle Focus very clearly only talks about running, so given that the BRB says "Bike's cant run" it's worthless. They may FAQ it to include turbo-boost, but that feels like it'd be a little crazy. It'd make jetbike army's incredible at wolf-packing.

[CoolKidRoc]

I know, I saw that too. But codex trumps core rules and the codex says jetbikes can run with that power. It might get errata'd but then again maybe not. It's not the easiest thing to errata because GW saying "okay that power is completely gone from that unit" would be extremely heavy-handed. But it's also hard to change it into something else because so many other units use that power.

I bet it gets FAQ'd to say that they can run with it because that's the only decent way to handle it IMO. After all we're just talking about an average of 3.5" here and the jetbikes are already going to be moving anyway in the assault phase.

Well the last line of Battle Focus says, Models that cannot Run gain no benefit from the rule. And Jet Bikes can't run per the BRB... So, no idea what that means, other then it needs an FAQ.

[Mr Mystery]

Looking forward to picking up my Codex tomorrow!

As for Jetbikes? Who knows! Perhaps Battle Focus will be FAQ'd to apply to Turbo Boost

[cebalrai]

Well the last line of Battle Focus says, Models that cannot Run gain no benefit from the rule. And Jet Bikes can't run per the BRB... So, no idea what that means, other then it needs an FAQ.

Ah right. Hmm. GW probably will not replace it with nothing.

[Defenestratus]

wiffle bat? Really dude?

Use your big-boy words please.

Oh please. Go away.

[eldargal]

Oh please. Go away.
He's right though, using the word like that is incredibly immature.

[Vanyarma]

I think it is there for coherence, as in "guardians have it so jb guardians have it", even if for them it is useless. Hence the restriction "if models can not run..."

[cebalrai]

I think it is there for coherence, as in "guardians have it so jb guardians have it", even if for them it is useless. Hence the restriction "if models can not run..."

I think it's just an oversight. But it's not like GW to simply say a power is completely gone. (is it?) So I think they'll do something with it.

[Defenestratus]

He's right though, using the word like that is incredibly immature.

OH NO.

However will I live with myself for using a word that implies violence to describe a fictitious device on a plastic army man that supposedly inflicts fake violence on another plastic army man?

I think that "immaturity" isn't the real problem here. I could have said "beat stick" and nobody would have accused me of being immature even though it's just another four-letter-word that implies violence. Its more likely that you've been predictably programmed by the PC police to think that the word "wiffle" is bad when used in a non-serious fashion. If this is the case then I suggest going out and finding something other to do than be offended at words that people say that don't imply any kind of malice whatsoever in any way, shape, or form.

[eldargal]

I've not been brainwashed, I've nearly been wiffled. Not quite the same thing. Wiffle is something real that happens to real people and chances are it has happened to someone you know.

[Fortunato]

GW: "We're going to need a bigger box."

"That's a big Twinkie."

[cebalrai]

OH NO.

However will I live with myself for using a word that implies violence to describe a fictitious device on a plastic army man that supposedly inflicts fake violence on another plastic army man?

I think that "immaturity" isn't the real problem here. I could have said "beat stick" and nobody would have accused me of being immature even though it's just another four-letter-word that implies violence. Its more likely that you've been predictably programmed by the PC police to think that the word "wiffle" is bad when used in a non-serious fashion. If this is the case then I suggest going out and finding something other to do than be offended at words that people say that don't imply any kind of malice whatsoever in any way, shape, or form.



Yeah the word 'wiffle' is bad. Nobody thinks you're bad or that you think it's ok to do something horrible to a person, just that your word choice is inappropriate for this forum.

[Defenestratus]

I've not been brainwashed, I've nearly been wiffled. Not quite the same thing. Wiffle is something real that happens to real people and chances are it has happened to someone you know.

And yet nothing I've said implied sexual assault in any way shape or form. Wiffle is a word typed on the internet.

Someone very close to me was sexually assaulted when she was a teenager. Get over yourself and your self-inflated sense of importance as queen of the word police.

[Defenestratus]

Yeah the word 'wiffle' is bad. Nobody thinks you're bad or that you think it's ok to do something horrible to a person, just that your word choice is inappropriate for this forum.

Could I get a list of the "appropriate" words that are approved for use on this forum?

Thanks.

[cebalrai]

Could I get a list of the "appropriate" words that are approved for use on this forum?

Thanks.

If you need to ask....

[eldargal]

And yet nothing I've said implied sexual assault in any way shape or form. Wiffle is a word typed on the internet.

My wife was sexually assaulted when she was a teenager. Get over yourself and your self-inflated sense of importance as queen of the word police.
Wiffle is a word that means wiffle, it isn't an implication it is explicit. You need to get over your immature and moronic belief that you have some kind of right to use highly charged words just because you personally aren't offended by them.

[Idaho11]

Could I get a list of the "appropriate" words that are approved for use on this forum?

Thanks.

Yea man, I've found your posts useful throughout this thread. But I just registered to hop in and point out that no one else is jumping in to defend you here, so you might want to reconsider the language. The argument that "wiffle is a word typed on the internet" is the weakest defense I've ever heard. And if beat stick means the same thing, why not just use that instead? No reason to use a word that's going to conjure up bad memories/feelings in people when you're trying to have a conversation about something positive.

[Kyban]

Could I get a list of the "appropriate" words that are approved for use on this forum?

Thanks.

Well, you've got a word to start the list with.

You've seemed pretty grouchy on the forums lately, what gives?

[Defenestratus]

If you need to ask....

I need to ask so I don't run a foul of the PC police who might discount my thoughts and ideas because of a specific word that I used that bears absolutely no relevance whatsoever to the discussion at hand.

Words hurt... right? I aim to not hurt anyone with my horribly heinous four letter words.


I think at this point there's no purpose in continuing this conversation. People here have expressed their displeasure in the choice of vocabulary I have used. I told them in no uncertain terms that they are welcome to get over it.

Neither party is likely to see the others' side of it so I suggest we keep talking about Eldar.

Say - Baharroth's power isn't the scatterless deepstrike - boo...

Going to have to think about how to pull off that nasty trick now.

[Defenestratus]

Wiffle is a word that means sexual assault, it isn't an implication it is explicit. You need to get over your immature and moronic belief that you have some kind of right to use highly charged words just because you personally aren't offended by them.

Technically I'm perfectly free to say all kinds of words that are offensive to whoever reads them - and you are perfectly free to be offended by them. Thats where the wonderful balance of free speech rests. I understand things are a bit different across the pond however in that regard.

[bfmusashi]

I am enjoying this defense of 'I'm going to have these dudes run up to some other dudes with a stick for wiffling is totally an okay thing to say but you guys are just too sensitive.'

[eldargal]

Edit: Nevermind.

Defenstratus, I like you so I'm going to assume you are just a bit cranky and when you calm down you will realize that while you may have the ability and the right to use a word like wiffle casually you will realize that the potential to cause genuine distress and contribute to a culture that doesn't take rape particularly serious isn't worth it.

To anyone who isn't close minded, read this:

Wiffle: Not a Casual Word (http://slutwalktampa.wordpress.com/2011/06/22/rape-not-a-casual-word/)

Back to eldar now.

[Autarch]

Hey Defenestratus I see you've made 1425 posts in this forum. I feel like you've made at least 1400 in this thread alone. Why dont you go for a walk or something and allow this conversation to go on for five minutes without your rude comments and retorts.

[bfmusashi]

Hey Defenestratus I see you've made 1425 posts in this forum. I feel like you've made at least 1400 in this thread alone. Why dont you go for a walk or something and allow this conversation to go on for five minutes without your rude comments and retorts.

Don't spoil my fun man.

[lattd]

I still don't get why the avatar gets exarch powers and not the autarch

[eldargal]

I still don't get why the avatar gets exarch powers and not the autarch
Autarchs aren't exarchs.:p An autarch is someone who has walked many paths, an exarch is trapped on one.

[Defenestratus]

Autarchs aren't exarchs.:p An autarch is someone who has walked many paths, an exarch is trapped on one.

Furthermore, the autarch would actually be something other than a copy/paste from the last book.

Can't have that now :P

[D6Damager]

I still don't get why the avatar gets exarch powers and not the autarch

Khaine is the patron god of all aspect warriors. In gameplay, the abilities they gave him weren't really useful except for maybe the double shot on his melta attack. You can also upgrade his inv back to what it was.

[Cpt Codpiece]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/wiffle

not just sexual assault people.

but yes back to eldar and away from the PC police please....

i am a sad panda that autarchs get no love as far as powers go, just one would have been nice..... i mean they get their weapons from the shrines but dont get a few little tricks of the trade....... then again they just walked the paths of the warrior shrines, they did not become exarchs so never learned the funky stuff.

i am glad it seems like the avatar is an even bigger monster in combat now he can have powers :) yay

i have not seen the leaked stuff, but do vypers gain any new/old tricks? like pop up returning?

[D6Damager]

[url]
i have not seen the leaked stuff, but do vypers gain any new/old tricks? like pop up returning?

They got BS4 and the upgrade to shuriken weapons. Plus access to the vehicle upgrades.

[vonevilstein]

Technically I'm perfectly free to say all kinds of words that are offensive to whoever reads them - and you are perfectly free to be offended by them.

Ah cool, yeah I forgot about that. Well in that case let me say that people that use words in a forum that are offensive to the majority of people in said forum then use the "never back down on the internet" defence are utter, utter f*ckwits. I don't like offending people though so I hope no one was offended by that comment.


Thats where the wonderful balance of free speech rests. I understand things are a bit different across the pond however in that regard

ROFL. OK I've devised an experiment that can potentially test this hypothesis. Lets both wear a t-shirt that says "Give Communism a Chance" on the front and "The War in Iraq was Wrong", then walk into a shopping mall (we call them centres) in middle America and middle England respectively and report back our results.

[Pssyche]

Vypers haven't changed that much.
They now have BS4.
Still 1-3.
I have my Vypers armed with Scatter Laser/Shuriken Cannon.
Used to cost 70 Points, still does.
If you take it, the Missile Launcher doesn't get Flakk.

[Cpt Codpiece]

thanks guys, so just BS4 then really :o i still miss pop up even after all these years :)

[chicop76]

Free Speech isn't free. If you want to use the word wiffle, racial slurs, ant-government terminology, genocide, over throwing the government, etc. Make your own web site with the warning that such terms are ok to say, but when you register to a forum typicially you have to follow forum rules.

Cyber Bulling and slander can get you fines and jail time. Your computer has an ip address that shouts hello I live here, so arresting you or fining you is not an issue.

That being said if your only way to get a point across is to anger people than you are not getting your point across.

If a man had his way with you I doubt you would use the word wiffle so lightly.

On the same token the word wiffle is used very often by generation x and tweens. It's use is also meant you litterly defeated someone rather badly. It comes from in the old days when you conqured wiffling was a common occurance to the spoils to be have.

However 200+ years later wiffle is not looked upon lightly, the act of wiffling. If it offends due to personal experiance why use it. At that point your brain should kick in and go. Maybe I should be more tolerant of people to get an ideal across. At this point you lost your audience when you could easily just let it drop. Letting it drop or appologizing, not saying you owe an apology, would had been acceptable.

However you being on the defensive like you the one that been wronged is crazy. It shows how much a __%^&* insert word you are. With your reasoning I should slander, incite riots, give intel, con people, use racial words and so on.

Anyway anyone heard what they did with runes of witnessing???

[eldargal]

Runes of Witnessing are considerably nerfed, sadly. +2 to a casting attempt once a game or something. I forget if there was more to it, too traumatised.:rolleyes:

[Defenestratus]

Runes of Witnessing are considerably nerfed, sadly. +2 to a casting attempt once a game or something. I forget if there was more to it, too traumatised.:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

It allows you to re-roll a psychic test once per game even if had been a perils.

[eldargal]

:rolleyes:

It allows you to re-roll a psychic test once per game even if had been a perils.
Huh, where did I get the +2 from then? There was something psychic related with a +2 I'm sure of it.:p

[Defenestratus]

Huh, where did I get the +2 from then? There was something psychic related with a +2 I'm sure of it.:p

Thats runes of warding ... bonus on DtW save once a game.

Neither are worth their points honestly.

The fact that we can put warlocks in several squads also helps overall with psychic defense, if just a little.

[eldargal]

Right, got my runes mixed up. I agree they are quite useless. More points for other things though, and it's nice not to have to rely on the same old Farseer wargear combination that has reigned supreme for the last seven years.

[DrLove42]

As i said earlier, we the Eldar have gone from king of physic defence to less powerful than a Physic Hood.

[eldargal]

As i said earlier, we the Eldar have gone from king of physic defence to less powerful than a Physic Hood.
I think we've come out better, though, from a psychic power perspective. Being able to shut down enemy psykers was good but it was all quite humdrum. Fortune/Doom/Guide/Runes as far as the eye could see...

[cebalrai]

Vypers haven't changed that much.
They now have BS4.
Still 1-3.
I have my Vypers armed with Scatter Laser/Shuriken Cannon.
Used to cost 70 Points, still does.
If you take it, the Missile Launcher doesn't get Flakk.

Looking at a squad...

Old Vypers with scatter-cannon vs MEQ: 2.9 unsaved wounds
New Vypers with scatter-cannon vs MEQ: 5.3 unsaved wounds


Vypers are almost twice as deadly. I don't know about you but I consider that to be a pretty huge change. And it really gets my goat because people are running around the net writing bad reviews, saying that these things didn't change much when a little bit of simple math says otherwise.

Oh and we can load them up with 5-point bright lances now and make them a serious threat to vehicles of all sizes. For no increase in points or actually fewer points because anti-vehicle kits can forgo the shuriken cannons.

That sounds like kind of a big deal to me.

[Aramel]

Yeah, Scatter Laser-Cannon combo seems like the way to go. Can they get holo-fields? 4+ cover may be worth the extra cost.

[Caitsidhe]

Removed as no longer required. :D

[Kyban]

Removed as no longer required. :D

Vypers?

Edit: lol, nevermind.

[Caitsidhe]

Aside from some odd things (mostly already covered) I think the new Codex is certainly playable and will have a couple of competitive builds. Comparing it to my own book, I see that Mr. Kelly clearly has a grip on what he thinks the balance and power levels should be. It is a pity that his vision isn't standardized and that we will be waiting a LONG time before certain other books get equalized. :D

I think the gentle nudges to try and get people to play larger games and use allies are starting to become more aggressive pushes though.

[Pssyche]

Vypers are almost twice as deadly. I don't know about you but I consider that to be a pretty huge change. And it really gets my goat because people are running around the net writing bad reviews, saying that these things didn't change much when a little bit of simple math says otherwise...


Who gave them a bad review?
Certainly not me.
I told you the significant difference.
They now have BS4.
I'm in work here trying to be helpful during a quick break and you fly off the handle.
I shouldn't have bothered.

[Defenestratus]

Aside from some odd things (mostly already covered) I think the new Codex is certainly playable and will have a couple of competitive builds. Comparing it to my own book, I see that Mr. Kelly clearly has a grip on what he thinks the balance and power levels should be. It is a pity that his vision isn't standardized and that we will be waiting a LONG time before certain other books get equalized. :D

I think the gentle nudges to try and get people to play larger games and use allies are starting to become more aggressive pushes though.

I agree that the total lack of interceptor in the army (for a race that can see the future, you'd think that it would pop up here and there) is a pretty blatant message that allies are the way of the future.

Which on a personal note is disappointing.

[Idaho11]

Who gave them a bad review?
Certainly not me.
I told you the significant difference.
They now have BS4.
I'm in work here trying to be helpful during a quick break and you fly off the handle.
I shouldn't have bothered.

I thought he was quoting you just to have the numbers in his post. Others have been giving them a thumbs down, but I don't think he was trying to imply that you were one of them. He just used your post as a jumping-off point so that people could check his math.

[Caitsidhe]

Which on a personal note is disappointing.

I feel the same way but I'm not suprised. Depending on your point of view I'm either a pragmatist or a cynic (or both). I thought from the very start that Games Workshop was clealry trying to accomplish two goals:

1. Increase the model count on the table which in turn should lead to more sales.
2. Push allies to move people toward owning 2+ armies rather than one. *Also equates to more sales.

The laws of unintended consequences took its toll thouigh, because their rules set wasn't very good. The clunky mechanics and ham-handed way they attempted to manipulate things simply caused the standard sized game to SHRINK. I suspect had the rules been better, they might have achieved #1, but larger games are so tedious and slow (for the most part) that even those willing to pay more rather (as a general rule) play smaller games. In regards to the second goal they weren't that successful either. The only people embracing allies in a reliable way were the hardcore tournament players looking to wring every drop of advantage out. It hasn't really taken off, even with the more competitive set.

The long and the short of it is that people aren't stupid. Even the most forgiving apologist for Games Workshop knows what's going on and somewhat resents the manipulation. I do happen to think that they will, over time, manage to accomplish #2. When it didn't happen on its own they have been ramping up the pressure by making it more and more clear that without allies you are skunked. The people that continue to play and care about being competitive will capitulate. Long term, I don't think Games Workshop is engaging in a good strategy for their own fiscal health. I could go into why, but such discussions and arguments are for another thread. It suffices to say that Eldar are in EXACTLY the same position against fliers that they were in with the previous book. They must rely on volume of twin-linked fire, War Walkers, and their air-to-air killing kite.

[cebalrai]

Who gave them a bad review?
Certainly not me.
I told you the significant difference.
They now have BS4.
I'm in work here trying to be helpful during a quick break and you fly off the handle.
I shouldn't have bothered.

I was referring to the article on the front page of BoLS which dismissed changes to Vypers as being significant, as did Kirby I think. You said they didn't change much and acknowledged some change, but I don't think you acknowledged enough :) I was mainly referring to those sites though.

[Defenestratus]

<snip> They must rely on volume of twin-linked fire, War Walkers, and their air-to-air killing kite.

Holy cow that made me laugh.

Killer-kite... haha

Personally I already own two armies (2nd one started out of pure boredom with the game in the middle of 5th edition) and I've never once wanted to ally them. It just felt so wrong - even though the book says I can do it. I'm all for allies in a fluffy sense - such as IG/Inquisition, or IG/SM, Daemons/CSM, etc..

But Eldar allied with anyone besides orks borders on incredulity honestly. I know that the fluff is ripe with examples of the conniving space elves manipulating other factions to do their bidding - but if you try to claim that to your opponent, I can just see the "yeah right" smirk from across the table.

[Kyban]

I agree that the total lack of interceptor in the army (for a race that can see the future, you'd think that it would pop up here and there) is a pretty blatant message that allies are the way of the future.

Which on a personal note is disappointing.
I'd have to say the Eldar rules seem to be the least fluffy out of all the armies, not enough changed from the last codex and I was hoping for a real overhaul. Disappointing.

[Eldar_Atog]

Holy cow that made me laugh.

But Eldar allied with anyone besides orks borders on incredulity honestly. I know that the fluff is ripe with examples of the conniving space elves manipulating other factions to do their bidding - but if you try to claim that to your opponent, I can just see the "yeah right" smirk from across the table.

I like the idea of being able to ally my Eldar and Dark Eldar allies. I would never ally either of them with Tau or a human army. It just seems unfluffy.

I do enjoy playing team games partnered with a Ork player. Some of the funniest team games for me have been when teamed with them. The khoppa/velvet glove alliance is always a romp :)

[Carey Yesoob]

Not so sure now on the new wraithknight, do love the new model but is it me that the rules don't seem to match it, can't understand why they make a big thing about it have twin pilots when this does nothing in the rules as it can only fire two weapons but yet can take upto four why?

I do think that the best way to use a WK is with ghostglave and scattershield (10pts) and then two starcannons as the still give it a reasonable fire power but will crush anything in combat, the fact it can run D6 move fire and then jump/charge 2D6.

[Caitsidhe]

Not so sure now on the new wraithknight, do love the new model but is it me that the rules don't seem to match it, can't understand why they make a big thing about it have twin pilots when this does nothing in the rules as it can only fire two weapons but yet can take upto four why?

I actually suspect this one may get the Faq treatment. While there are other things that probably could be fixed, I expect this one to be fixed so that it can fire four weapons.

[D6Damager]

Not so sure now on the new wraithknight, do love the new model but is it me that the rules don't seem to match it, can't understand why they make a big thing about it have twin pilots when this does nothing in the rules as it can only fire two weapons but yet can take upto four why?

My "theory" is the Wraithknight was probably meant for the Apocalypse reboot this summer and at the last minute they changed their minds and decided to shoe horn it in the codex to generate better sales for the model.

I seriously doubt it will get FAQ'd anytime soon as they would have done it already with the FAQ to monofilament that just came out. FAQs are coming out slowly again. Daemon players are still waiting to see if their burning chariots can move and fire.

[Caitsidhe]

My "theory" is the Wraithknight was probably meant for the Apocalypse reboot this summer and at the last minute they changed their minds and decided to shoe horn it in the codex to generate better sales for the model.

I seriously doubt it will get FAQ'd anytime soon as they would have done it already with the FAQ to monofilament that just came out. FAQs are coming out slowly again. Daemon players are still waiting to see if their burning chariots can move and fire.

Normally I would agree with you... slow if at all... but given the price of the model and the general reaction already... they will Faq it.

[Carey Yesoob]

From know on most people will use spiritsears as this allows you to use WG and WB as troops as well as getting mastery Lvl 2 the for 30 pts less than a Farseer the only thing is it can't take from divination.

[DarkLink]

Considering the Dreadknight and Riptide, I seriously doubt that the Wraithknight was shoehorned in at the last minute. Large kits make bank. They've planned it for a while.


I was referring to the article on the front page of BoLS which dismissed changes to Vypers as being significant, as did Kirby I think. You said they didn't change much and acknowledged some change, but I don't think you acknowledged enough :) I was mainly referring to those sites though.

Considering how much the Vyper was overpriced, BS4 was kind of the minimum to make it ok, but certainly not enough to make it really good.



Killer-kite... haha

That's awesome.

[chicop76]

Runes of warding was what I ment to say, boy they did a number on witnessing too. I love Eldar and it's my second favorate, but now I do the dance of joy! Nerfing warding is very helpful to allow others to actually play psykers. As it stands people was abusing Eldar for the farseer psychic block.

Now I have to hope Space Wolves is the next update. With that nerf psychics will have free reign. Now I am confident the wolves will get nerfed on their defense as well. After them will be nids to get the psychic nerf.

It helps bring game balance. Witnessing was way to powerful, not to mentionthe daemon nerf on powers. Anyway now I can play Tzeentch again, although now I will have to be able to get through re rollable deny the witch. At least I can using blessings and can rely on using psychic powers on myself.

The wolves aren't as bad as eldar was. Atleast I have a 50% chance and if I am 24" of a character that deep strikes usually I was ok.

I think I will watch the wizard of oz and play th song they sing when thefirst witch dies. I think I shall part 3 days and play nothing, but psychics lol.

Back to Eldar. It is one of my favorite armies. It was nerfed in 4.5 and looking at what bols was saying it seems yet again another nerf in 6th, poor space elves. If you want to call the ability to drop an army of wraiths anywhere on the board a nerf, sure they can't assault that turn, but what about the next.

The only models I get that got buffed was guardians and wraith guard.

All that being said how survivable is wave serpents now. I like the buff done to the guardians since now I have bit jumping out of serpents. The question is will I be able to get serpents to point a to point b.

I also notice lords have 3 attacks again and can be somewhat good at combat while costing more, but compaired to other MC's it is still cheap

1. Can I still get a seer council
2. Can I take 2 farseers and an avatar
3. Are we limited to 2 slots for hq

[HERO]

Planning to run my Farseer like this:
Bike, Spear, Mantle of the Laughing God
1 into Fate, 2 into Divination; getting double Guide essentially.

Nothing like a 2++ cover re-rollable.. until you run into Tau. That's why you have such a small footprint so you can hide from the *******s in between buildings!

[Carey Yesoob]

There's already a update for the eldar shadow weaver on the website so anything possible

[chicop76]

I like the idea of being able to ally my Eldar and Dark Eldar allies. I would never ally either of them with Tau or a human army. It just seems unfluffy.

I do enjoy playing team games partnered with a Ork player. Some of the funniest team games for me have been when teamed with them. The khoppa/velvet glove alliance is always a romp :)


I think it would be fluffy for Space Marines to ally with Chaos Marines. That's how I see anyone justifying Dark Eldar and Eldar allies. I guess the fluff changed so much that Dark Eldar and Eldar are the best buds ever.

[Hal]

Btw has anyone seen the new Sunrifle profile? I love it.. :D
Finally hawks being annoying as hell again..

[Carey Yesoob]

1 Yes you can get two warlock councils one for each primary detachment
2 no you only get two choices for Hq

[Carey Yesoob]

They would have been better if Gw hand made plastic hawks, as these should always be taken in units of 10

[lattd]

Can we get a full run down of the psychic powers?

[Eldar_Atog]

I think it would be fluffy for Space Marines to ally with Chaos Marines. That's how I see anyone justifying Dark Eldar and Eldar allies. I guess the fluff changed so much that Dark Eldar and Eldar are the best buds ever.

I have a couple of rules when using a DE ally. There can be no Grotesque or Wrack models. There should be mostly Kabalite models. That way I can pass it off as a Corsair ally :)

[Hal]

1 Yes you can get two warlock councils one for each primary detachment
2 no you only get two choices for Hq

I agree.. I was really hoping for GW to make new sculpts for just 3 things:
1. Jetbikes
2. Swooping Hawks (I envy DE Scourges)
3. Warp Spiders

Oh well...


Can we get a full run down of the psychic powers?

There is that pdf with pics of the codex floating around somewhere on 4chan..

[chicop76]

I have a couple of rules when using a DE ally. There can be no Grotesque or Wrack models. There should be mostly Kabalite models. That way I can pass it off as a Corsair ally :)



To me that's like saying I am taking chaos marines with no marks

[murgel]

At the moment it's utterly useless. Battle Focus very clearly only talks about running, so given that the BRB says "Bike's cant run" it's worthless. They may FAQ it to include turbo-boost, but that feels like it'd be a little crazy. It'd make jetbike army's incredible at wolf-packing.

Ups, if they FAQed this into turbo or into nothing, that would really be annoying.
Personally I have interpreted Jetbikes "running" as them gaining a D6" additional movement in the shooting phase.

GW surely wants us to take allies and build a second army. However, they are not clever about it, the models should be less points. Myself I have 7 different 40k armies, despite that I never have been able to field an allied detachment. Simply because I needed the points for my Eldar units.

[CoolKidRoc]

Anyone else notice you now have to cast Viel of Tears now for Harlequins... I'm not a big fan of having to cast everything now, especially with lower LDs. The reliability of the Eldar army getting stuff is very questionable now.

[Kyban]

Anyone else notice you now have to cast Viel of Tears now for Harlequins... I'm not a big fan of having to cast everything now, especially with lower LDs. The reliability of the Eldar army getting stuff is very questionable now.

Yep, definitely seems like the army will fall apart at the whim of the dice but I guess we'll have to see after everyone starts getting some games in.

[Mkvenner]

"That's a big Twinkie."

"That, is a big pile of ****."

[Eldar_Atog]

To me that's like saying I am taking chaos marines with no marks

Yeah, I can see that.

For me though, I just can't see a craftworld force allying with a force that included Wracks and Grotesques. They could maybe deal with a haemie but a full carnival of pain list would be too much.

[Aramel]

I think it would be fluffy for Space Marines to ally with Chaos Marines. That's how I see anyone justifying Dark Eldar and Eldar allies. I guess the fluff changed so much that Dark Eldar and Eldar are the best buds ever.

It's perfectly fluffy! Just because your sister became a drug addict, makes the same questionable decisions that led your family to ruin, commits heinously depraved acts onto others to extend her own life and would murder you without a second thought if it suited her, does not make her any less family. Craftworlders either harbor hope (possibly naively) that the dark kin can be rehabilitated, or at the very least try to ensure that She Who Thirsts does not consume their souls.

Meanwhile Astrates are narrow-minded, prejudiced conservative xenophobes with a sense of entitlement to rival our own, minus the actual achievements to back it up. Chaos marines have given themselves entirely onto Chaos or, worse, simply don't feel like worshiping the corpse emperor. Thus there can be no reconceliation or any reason to ever work together. In fact I'm pretty sure that if an Astrates Chapter was stuck on a Necron toom world or a planet infested by Tyranids together with a Chaos Marine Legion, they would still try and kill them first. Lets also not forget the whole hundreds of years of war thing.

The Craftworlds have never really gone to war with eachother, probably because the Tyrant and Eldrad made a secret bro-pact. That enmity that so clearly defines the Asur-Drucii realtionship in WH Fantasy and fantasy in general, does not really exist, which I suppose is why many people find it odd that they are battle brothers. Is it odd that Dark Eldar, in an effort to escape her, do exactly the sorts of things the Dark Prince would have them do anyway? Absolutely, but irony is a prevalent theme with the Eldar and having so few of them left means that all of them need to band together, sometimes, while never showing them your back, and deploying on the other side of the battlefield...Don't let them take you alive...

[IronZOGZ]

Yep, definitely seems like the army will fall apart at the whim of the dice but I guess we'll have to see after everyone starts getting some games in.

I actually had a question about Veil...

I've read the codex pretty extensively via the 4chan link at this point (my book was ordered from Frontline and probably won't arrive until next week... boo... but can't afford full price...) but no one linked the Veil image except for the Harlequin entry showing that Shadowseers are Mastery 1 Psykers that come with Veil.

My question is - with Veil being rumoured to be back to its original form of check 2D6x2 distance, does that deny the enemy from shooting against another target if they make the check? With premeasuring, I guess it would be almost exactly like deciding if you want to charge - measure, sure distance seems reasonable, roll for it.

Anyone know?

[deinol]

I actually had a question about Veil...

I've read the codex pretty extensively via the 4chan link at this point (my book was ordered from Frontline and probably won't arrive until next week... boo... but can't afford full price...) but no one linked the Veil image except for the Harlequin entry showing that Shadowseers are Mastery 1 Psykers that come with Veil.

My question is - with Veil being rumoured to be back to its original form of check 2D6x2 distance, does that deny the enemy from shooting against another target if they make the check? With premeasuring, I guess it would be almost exactly like deciding if you want to charge - measure, sure distance seems reasonable, roll for it.

Anyone know?

If they try to shoot a a fail the check, they shoot at nothing.

[Autarch]

To me that's like saying I am taking chaos marines with no marks


Its fluffy if you take the effort to model up a cohesive looking corsair army. :D

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-efGITRl22Bg/UXlOfhha6eI/AAAAAAAANbU/xvGHmfFF2sQ/s640/DSC01291.JPG

[colinsherlow]

Everybody get ready to send gw faq emails asap so we can get things straightened up. Like do warlocks roll for powers before being split into units (I doubt it, but I hope so). Do guardians get twin linked if scatter laser hits? (Doubt it but hope so again). If a war walker takes 2 scatter lasers can it fire 1 to iniate target lock so that the other scatter laser can for twin linked? (I think this one may work)

[ubersparks]

I think we (Eldar enthusiasts) are in a bit of a crisis. Despite Edition changes from 3rd, 4th, 5th & to a degree 6th, the Eldar have played the same, or at least maybe we were familiar enough with the Eldar stats & tactics that it was easy to adapt to edition changes.

Now, in this strangest of editions, our beloved Eldar are no longer the army we fell in love with. They are a vastly different army with similarities to our previous codex. GW's reasoning aside (don't get me started), in order for us Eldar guys & gals to be happy with what we have, we're going to have to fall in love with the Eldar all over again.

It's like waking up from a coma & the world has moved on, but you're stuck in the 90's. Same fluff, same models (mostly), completely different army that will need a whole new set of tricks, synergy & as we all are afraid, allies in order to be effective on the table.

Here's hoping we don't get our hearts broken.

[Caitsidhe]

I think we (Eldar enthusiasts) are in a bit of a crisis. Despite Edition changes from 3rd, 4th, 5th & to a degree 6th, the Eldar have played the same, or at least maybe we were familiar enough with the Eldar stats & tactics that it was easy to adapt to edition changes.

Now, in this strangest of editions, our beloved Eldar are no longer the army we fell in love with. They are a vastly different army with similarities to our previous codex. GW's reasoning aside (don't get me started), in order for us Eldar guys & gals to be happy with what we have, we're going to have to fall in love with the Eldar all over again.

It's like waking up from a coma & the world has moved on, but you're stuck in the 90's. Same fluff, same models (mostly), completely different army that will need a whole new set of tricks, synergy & as we all are afraid, allies in order to be effective on the table.

Here's hoping we don't get our hearts broken.

Really? This Edition is pretty much the same as last Edition?

[Sonikgav]

There are 1 or two questions i wouldnt mind answering but alot of the wish listing going on is getting silly.

FAQ's are to solve actual questions you have, not to try and strong-arm GW to add rules/wargear etc to units. The Banshees are screwed, sorry, thats just that.

The Wraithknight can take 4 guns just like the Wraithlord has always been able to take. Its not suddenly gonna get an extra rule to fire all 4. Theyre situational. Think of it as 2 Primary slots and 2 additional for an alternate role/additional effects.

Heavy D-Cannons (to me) seem very Anti-Armor/Monstrous Creature. So let them fill that role. Target gone? Fine, switch to the Double Starcannons for infantry work, or Perhaps your opponent is fielding Squadrons of Light Armor, two Scatter Lasers would be so much better for that etc....

The Suncannon seems more anti infantry, it comes with a shield so add a Scatter Laser to twin link it. One slot left? Theres nothing saying you HAVE to fill that slot?


As for actual questions, one thats probably easy to see, that i missed and im the cautious type. If a Warp Spider unit use the Warp Rift Generator, is there a limitation on movement after or is the chance to lose Squad Members the drawback to them having such rediculous speed?

[ubersparks]

Really? This Edition is pretty much the same as last Edition?

Well, maybe not strange compared to 2nd, & yes, it is pretty similar to 5th, but with challenges, dual FOC, allies & fortifications all in the same edition, yes, 6th ed seems pretty strange comparatively.

[CoolKidRoc]

There are 1 or two questions i wouldnt mind answering but alot of the wish listing going on is getting silly.

FAQ's are to solve actual questions you have, not to try and strong-arm GW to add rules/wargear etc to units. The Banshees are screwed, sorry, thats just that.

The Wraithknight can take 4 guns just like the Wraithlord has always been able to take. Its not suddenly gonna get an extra rule to fire all 4. Theyre situational. Think of it as 2 Primary slots and 2 additional for an alternate role/additional effects.

Heavy D-Cannons (to me) seem very Anti-Armor/Monstrous Creature. So let them fill that role. Target gone? Fine, switch to the Double Starcannons for infantry work, or Perhaps your opponent is fielding Squadrons of Light Armor, two Scatter Lasers would be so much better for that etc....

The Suncannon seems more anti infantry, it comes with a shield so add a Scatter Laser to twin link it. One slot left? Theres nothing saying you HAVE to fill that slot?


As for actual questions, one thats probably easy to see, that i missed and im the cautious type. If a Warp Spider unit use the Warp Rift Generator, is there a limitation on movement after or is the chance to lose Squad Members the drawback to them having such rediculous speed?

No limitation, just the chance to lose someone while going ludicrus speed :P

[SeekingOne]

Can they get holo-fields? 4+ cover may be worth the extra cost.

They can. But, believe it or not, purely maths-wise holofields are not worth the extra cost, even on Serpents, let alone Vypers. See, if it were "upgrade to 4+ cover from no cover at all", then it would be worth it. But "upgrade to 4+ cover from 5+ cover" - that in fact is worth less than 10 points.

[CoolKidRoc]

They can. But, believe it or not, purely maths-wise holofields are not worth the extra cost, even on Serpents, let alone Vypers. See, if it were "upgrade to 4+ cover from no cover at all", then it would be worth it. But "upgrade to 4+ cover from 5+ cover" - that in fact is worth less than 10 points.

Really? Not worth it Math Wise? It's about 1/10 the cost of the serpent I priced out, and increases cover save chance by 50%. That may or may not be worth it, but when running 2 serpents the 30 points doesn't seem to bad.

[Sonikgav]

They can. But, believe it or not, purely maths-wise holofields are not worth the extra cost, even on Serpents, let alone Vypers. See, if it were "upgrade to 4+ cover from no cover at all", then it would be worth it. But "upgrade to 4+ cover from 5+ cover" - that in fact is worth less than 10 points.

For a Vyper.. maybe, for a Wave Serpent? My Hammerhead begs to differ. Ive had plenty of times where just having a 5+ would have seen my vehicle wrecked. For 10 points, and depending on what youre trying to deliver, id say its worth it.

[CoolKidRoc]

Yeah... for a vyper, probably not worth it, those if I run will be super cheap.

[ubersparks]

So, now the questions is...

"What will we see with the rumored apoc release???"

[chicop76]

It's perfectly fluffy! Just because your sister became a drug addict, makes the same questionable decisions that led your family to ruin, commits heinously depraved acts onto others to extend her own life and would murder you without a second thought if it suited her, does not make her any less family. Craftworlders either harbor hope (possibly naively) that the dark kin can be rehabilitated, or at the very least try to ensure that She Who Thirsts does not consume their souls.

Meanwhile Astrates are narrow-minded, prejudiced conservative xenophobes with a sense of entitlement to rival our own, minus the actual achievements to back it up. Chaos marines have given themselves entirely onto Chaos or, worse, simply don't feel like worshiping the corpse emperor. Thus there can be no reconceliation or any reason to ever work together. In fact I'm pretty sure that if an Astrates Chapter was stuck on a Necron toom world or a planet infested by Tyranids together with a Chaos Marine Legion, they would still try and kill them first. Lets also not forget the whole hundreds of years of war thing.

The Craftworlds have never really gone to war with eachother, probably because the Tyrant and Eldrad made a secret bro-pact. That enmity that so clearly defines the Asur-Drucii realtionship in WH Fantasy and fantasy in general, does not really exist, which I suppose is why many people find it odd that they are battle brothers. Is it odd that Dark Eldar, in an effort to escape her, do exactly the sorts of things the Dark Prince would have them do anyway? Absolutely, but irony is a prevalent theme with the Eldar and having so few of them left means that all of them need to band together, sometimes, while never showing them your back, and deploying on the other side of the battlefield...Don't let them take you alive...

let me pull out my 3rd/2 nd edition eldar and dark eldar codexes and trully see how fluffy it is for them to work together. If you mean it is fluffy due to 5th and 6th re writes than I guess it is if you re write and change events to your needs.

[ubersparks]

let me pull out my 3rd/2 nd edition eldar and dark eldar codexes and trully see how fluffy it is for them to work together. If you mean it is fluffy due to 5th and 6th re writes than I guess it is if you re write and change events to your needs.

Isn't that what GW expects from us... "Never you mind about all that... Nothing to see here. Move along."

Oh, well. I like Corsairs myself, so I like the Dark Eldar/Eldar love-in.

Not as crazy about needing to use them or Tau to be effective.

Well, here's hoping.

Codex has been shipped & have games scheduled!

[murgel]

If a war walker takes 2 scatter lasers can it fire 1 to iniate target lock so that the other scatter laser can for twin linked? (I think this one may work)
;)Hm, why would you need to ask?
SL->Lasertargeter? check.
SL hit? check.
next SL on same model? check.
=> 2xSL on warwalker: fire first normal as LasTag fire second as TL.
Need FAQ? what for?

much more important to me:
will a holofield give a 6+ coversave to a stationary vehicle? (this rule can be read either way)

[SeekingOne]

;)Hm, why would you need to ask?

will a holofield give a 6+ coversave to a stationary vehicle? (this rule can be read either way)
Nope. Holofield rule specifically says "Provided a vehicle has moved..."

[DarkLink]

Can we get a full run down of the psychic powers?

There are two tables, Runes of Battle and Runes of Fate. Psykers also have some access to Rulebook powers.

Runes of Battle:

Primaris: Conceal/Reveal. Grants Shrouded to psyker's unit, or takes away Stealth and Shrouded 18" range. Warp Charge (WC) 1

Pretty good, a solid Primaris power, though only getting Shrouded on the Psyker's unit is kind of limiting.

1. Destructor/Renewer. Heavy Flamer/Friendly model regains one wound 18" range. WC 1

The flamer sucks, between lack of power, DtW and the psychic test to use it. Regain a wound is pretty awesome, though, but only really useful on Wraithlord/Knights, or maybe Pheonix Lord/ally.

2. Embolden/Horrify. Psyker gains Fearless, Enemy in 18" is -3 Ld. WC 1

Ok, I guess, but leadership shenanigans are kind of mediocre in general. You can make some combos with this, though, like Rangers Pinning stuff.

3. Enhance/Drain. +1 WS/I to psyker and his unit, or -1 WS/I 18" range. WC 1

Eldar usually already have high I and WS, and eldar CC units tend to suck. And you have to stick your Farseer in assault to gain the benefit. Not very impressive.

4. Protect/Jinx. +1 Armor Save, -1 Armor Save.WC 1

This can be pretty good. Wraithguard with 2+ armor, or 3+ armor on Terminators to make them vulnerable to the Fire Prism's new AP3 blast? Pretty good.

5. Quicken/Restrain. +3 to Run, or deny enemy Run.WC 1

Useful for Battle Focus, but not really that fantastic. Average power, but pretty situational.

6. Empower/Enervate. +/-1 Str. WC 1

Only matters in assault, and most Eldar units aren't that impressive in assault. It can be funny with Wraithguard, though. Nerf Str 5+ enemies to protect the WG, or make them immune to Str 3. Still tends to put your Farseer into assault, though. Situational.


So, the Primaris is solid, Protect/Jinx is pretty awesome, and the rest are very situational and probably not powerful enough to even build a list around. Not that impressive, especially when a lot of the Eldar psykers are Ld 8.


Runes of Fate

Primaris: Guide WC1
Pretty good, especially with the new 24" range.

1. Executioner Focused Witchfire WC1

Pretty complicated, but basically you cause 3 hits at the Psyker's str with Fleshbane. Only good against, like, Orks, because it's AP-. If you roll well, it can be awesome, but it looks very unreliable.


2. Doom, 24" range, WC 1

Awesome.


3. 24" large blast, S3, AP- Fleshbane, Haywire, Pinning, Assault 1. WC 2.

Warp Charge 2? WTF? Terrible. At least you can hurt stuff with it, but why is it WC 2? If it were WC 1, it would be pretty decent for putting wounds on stuff and glancing vehicles, but with WC2? No.

4. Death Mission. Really weird, generates D3+2, +5 WS/BS/I, +2 Attacks, and gains Fearless/Rampage for as long as the psyker has a counter on him. Remove a counter on a D6 roll of 1-3 each phase, and can recast to generate more counters. WC2.

Farseers aren't really assault dudes, but I guess you can do some funny stuff with this. Depends on if you can get good assault wargear, which you probably can't. And since this is a random power you can't guarantee getting it, so trying to build an assault Farseer around this isn't reliable at all. Funny, but I don't think this will be that good.

5. Fortune. 24" range, WC2.

Awesome, except now it's WC 2, but it's still good.


6. Mind War. Focused Witchfire. 24" range. Roll off D6+Ld. If target wins, Farseer is WS/BS1. If Farseer wins, target suffers wounds equal to the difference, no armor or cover allowed. WC 2.

Kinda cool, except Focused Witchfire isn't very reliable, and it's Warp Charge 2. It'll have some uses, but not really that impressive.

BTW, in the codex they misspell Focused as Focussed.


Doom and Fortune are both awesome. The Primaris is pretty awesome. The rest of the powers kinda suck, either by relying on rolling really well or being too situational.


Overall, I'm not that impressed. You're probably going to get stuck with some crappy powers each game, and the odds of you getting just the right power *coughFortunecough* isn't great. The psychic powers will still be good, since you've got good Primaris powers and access to both Divination and Telepathy, but overall... well, at least you get cheap PM3 psykers, which is pretty awesome.

[Aramel]

But it does combine very nicely with conceal now, making serpents nigh indestructible used correctly. Hell even a Falcon can be great with a farseer inside, twin linked all guns and 2+ cover.

[Koremu]

Horrify > Pin > Banshee Charge would have potential, if you could guarantee having Horrify.

[Sonikgav]

I actually really like alot of the Runes of Battle in the place im kinda thinking they were intended to go. On Spiritseers escorting large units of Wraithblades.

Conceal is good for Wraithguard and Wraithblades without the Inv Saves but generally the Primaris is about the least useful of the lot. Renewer also isnt too good in this build but it can put wounds back on Supporting Wraithlords and even the Spiritseer himself....just incase ;)

[deinol]

The problem with Vypers is Hornets do the same thing with 12AV. And the models aren't that much more compared to $30 each.

[DarkLink]

BTW, Farseers are ML3, 100, get Runes of Fate, Divination, and Telepathy. Spiritseers are ML2, 70, Runes of Battle, and Telepathy. Warlocks are ML1, 35, and Runes of Battle only.

So Farseers get access to some great powers, but no Conceal or Renewer.

Spiritseers can get Conceal, but have to get luck rolling for Renewer or one of the good Telepathy powers, so I'm not really impressed here, and you can't get Guide, Doom, Fortune, or any Divination powers. Skip, unless you want Wraithguard troops.

Warlocks can get Conceal by default, which is pretty handy in foot lists, but with Ld8 it's not that reliable and Warlocks are still expensive. And since you aren't guaranteed Fortune, Seer Councils are a lot less impressive. You can only stick Warlocks in Guardian units (incl. Jetbikes and support platforms), which is nice but it's probably only worth spending that many points to get your scoring jetbikes an awesome cover save. Or take one unit of Guardians behind an Aegis for a 2+ cover while still shooting. But it's still only Ld8, and there's a lot of stuff that ignores cover out there.


But it does combine very nicely with conceal now, making serpents nigh indestructible used correctly. Hell even a Falcon can be great with a farseer inside, twin linked all guns and 2+ cover.

Doesn't work. The Farseer can't target the Falcon. It only works on the Farseer and his unit, and the Falcon isn't his unit even if he's inside.

[SeekingOne]

This can be pretty good. Wraithguard with 2+ armor
Nope. Warlocks only go into Guardians, remember? Might work with a Wraithseer, but, obviously, a ton of luck is needed to actually roll this one on a Mastery 2 psyker.


But it does combine very nicely with conceal now, making serpents nigh indestructible used correctly. Hell even a Falcon can be great with a farseer inside, twin linked all guns and 2+ cover.
Nope. "Runes of Battle" are exclusively for Warlocks/Wraithseers, "Runes of Fate" - for Farseers. So a Farseer can't have Conceal.

Wraithseer can have it, but it still won't affect any vehicle, as it only affects psyker and his unit.

[deinol]

Anyone know what "Sharpshot" does? Do we think Pathfinders are worth spending twice a a much as Rangers for Shrouded?

[SeekingOne]

Anyone know what "Sharpshot" does? Do we think Pathfinders are worth spending twice a a much as Rangers for Shrouded?
Sharpshot means all hits are Precision Shots (so you get to allocate wounds).


But it's still only Ld8, and there's a lot of stuff that ignores cover out there.
Well, specifically with bikes it really looks like it's worth it, because, while there are many cover-ignoring weapons and rules, to really hurt bikes they also need to ignore 3+ save - and that is much more rare thing. There's not much stuff that is simultaneously AP3 and ignores cover.

[Koremu]

There are two tables, Runes of Battle and Runes of Fate. Psykers also have some access to Rulebook powers.

Runes of Battle:
Primaris: Conceal/Reveal. Grants Shrouded to psyker's unit, or takes away Stealth and Shrouded 18" range. Warp Charge (WC) 1

1. Destructor/Renewer. Heavy Flamer/Friendly model regains one wound 18" range. WC 1

2. Embolden/Horrify. Psyker gains Fearless, Enemy in 18" is -3 Ld. WC 1

3. Enhance/Drain. +1 WS/I to psyker and his unit, or -1 WS/I 18" range. WC 1

4. Protect/Jinx. +1 Armor Save, -1 Armor Save.WC 1

5. Quicken/Restrain. +3 to Run, or deny enemy Run.WC 1

6. Empower/Enervate. +/-1 Str. WC 1



Hmmm. I'm beginning to see Guardian Squads as mere delivery systems for some of these negative effects. Can you put multiple Warlocks into a single Guardian unit?

If you have enough Warlocks, power generation becomes somewhat more predictable.

[SeekingOne]

Can you put multiple Warlocks into a single Guardian unit?

If you have enough Warlocks, power generation becomes somewhat more predictable.
Sadly, you can't. It's strictly 1 per unit.

[deinol]

Ok, new 1850 list

10 warlocks w/ spears and Jetbikes

Farseer on bike

Spiritseer on bike

6x Jetbike squads, 9x riders 3x cannon

Of course, it dies to flyers and tanks. :p

[SeekingOne]

Wraithseer doesn't have jetbike option.

[deinol]

Wraithseer doesn't have jetbike option.

Doh. I guess drop a warlock and make it two Farseers then. ;)

[Mkvenner]

Wraithseer doesn't have jetbike option.

Spiritseer.

Wraithseer is the Wraithlord that acts as a Farseer MC. Wouldn't to confuse a bunch of people. Heh.

A Farseer on a bike in that unit is fine enough. Spiritseer doesn't do anything different that a Warlock would do. Also, SINGING SPEARS all the way!

[DanTheGameMan]

Wraithseer doesn't have jetbike option.

Kinda odd, considering the Hemlock is piloted by a Spiritseer...

So he can fly something larger and faster, and more dangerous (potentially) than a Falcon, but can't turn the throttle of a jetbike?
I'd very much like to hear a fluff explanation for why that happened.

[deinol]

Also, SINGING SPEARS all the way!

I probably wasn't explicit, but yes, everyone gets a singing spear!

[murgel]

Nope. Holofield rule specifically says "Provided a vehicle has moved..."

Correct, however there is a second part/sentence.
If those sentences are indeed separate paragraphs or meant as a list, it would mean both facts.
Because if it is not meant to give a 6+ cover to a standing vehicle the second sentence is irrelevant.
Our vehicles have 5+ by moving one inch, so the 6+ statement is obsolete or just silly. Consequently it makes sense to interpret it as 6+ cover for standing.

And frankly, should the field not bee even more effective when it does not have to compensate for movement? It should make the darn tank almost invisible... (just remember the James Bond movie with the invisible Aston Martin?)
But standing still would be uneldarish :D

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I think Death Mission is a hilarious psychic power, makes your Farseer well hench. :p

[Mkvenner]

I probably wasn't explicit, but yes, everyone gets a singing spear!

I figured you had, but I wanted to celebrate them being almost a no brainer if you have the points.

[SeekingOne]

I'd very much like to hear a fluff explanation for why that happened.
I strongly suspect that it happened for the same reason as many other things in this codex: someone was very much afraid that something happens to end up being actually powerful. And since playtesting is next to non-existent, certain options were shut down "just in case".

[deinol]

I don't have my old codex handy, but are plasma grenades and counter-attack normal for Dire Avengers? It almost seems like an editing/layout error, and Banshees should have gotten those. Or they just have them to Avengers to mock Banshee fans.

[daboarder]

Thats not really the argument (at least only half of it). There's 2 ways of having a IC join a unit during deployment.

1. Put both in reserves and declare that they are joind. (unit and IC are now in reserve and can't inflitrate, though can still outflank)

2. Place the IC within in unit coherency during deployment. The only way to place an IC in unit coherency with a unit is if that unit is already deployed. And if it's already deployed there's no way to make use of the IC's inflitrate.

-You could argue that a unit can join an IC by being deployed next to him aswell, but since you have no way of keeping a unit with out infiltrate undeployed, and not in reserves, until the Infiltrate step that doesn't help either.

literally the dumbest rules lawyering since bottled water

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Amen.

[SeekingOne]

If those sentences are indeed separate paragraphs or meant as a list, it would mean both facts.
Because if it is not meant to give a 6+ cover to a standing vehicle the second sentence is irrelevant.

See your point now, and agree.

Also guys, one more question to think about...

I just sat down and directly converted to the new rules one of the tournament lists that I know to be rather good. It included 2 full squads of DA in Serpents, one with Exarch.
Now, while converting, I realised that Exarch was needed in DA squad solely for (old) Bladestorm. And now with Bladestorm gone, Exarch is kind of pointless as he doesn't really boost the squad's shooting power. So I changed the unit to just 10 naked DA. And then I thought: and why would I actually want to take 10 DA over 10 Guardians? The difference is just 6" of range and 5+ instead of 4+. This difference is by no means small, but it's 130 pts vs 90! Heavy weapon is now optional, and so Guardians can be put in a Serpent rather cheaply. Downgrading 2 DA squads to Guardians buys a 4-strong unit of GJB w/cannon or a Vyper.

Thoughts?

[Mkvenner]

I don't have my old codex handy, but are plasma grenades and counter-attack normal for Dire Avengers? It almost seems like an editing/layout error, and Banshees should have gotten those. Or they just have them to Avengers to mock Banshee fans.

I just find it hilarious that Storm Guardians come with Plasma Grenades, but Howling Banshees ran out of room on their belt.

[Bitrider]

I just find it hilarious that Storm Guardians come with Plasma Grenades, but Howling Banshees ran out of room on their belt.

...and the hits just keep on coming.. ./sigh. Crazy uh?

[Bitrider]

literally the dumbest rules lawyering since bottled water

Lawyers argued against bottled water?

[daboarder]

Lawyers argued against bottled water?

mm you' be surprised how much law goes into bottled water, particularly labeling. Heres a hint, NEVER BUY "ORGANIC" water, its pretty much just tap water run through a still.

[Bitrider]

mm you' be surprised how much law goes into bottled water, particularly labeling. Heres a hint, NEVER BUY "ORGANIC" water, its pretty much just tap water run through a still.

Fair enough.

[Mkvenner]

...and the hits just keep on coming.. ./sigh. Crazy uh?

Oh yeah. Everyone is just laughing at the Banshees. All they can do is write in their wraithbone diaries with their powerswords about how crappy their day has been. While every one else in the Craftworld gets to be the hero.

90's movie issues aside. Banshees need a lot of support to be viable. So much that it can hinder other units.

[Bitrider]

Oh yeah. Everyone is just laughing at the Banshees. All they can do is write in their wraithbone diaries with their powerswords about how crappy their day has been. While every one else in the Craftworld gets to be the hero.

90's movie issues aside. Banshees need a lot of support to be viable. So much that it can hinder other units.

I remember when Dark Eldar came out and GW put up a 'How to run DE' post on the website. In the back of the book there is a section on how hard the DE can be and things you should do to be successful with them. Seems GW should do that with this codex. eh.

[Mkvenner]

They used to have them in the Codex. I am pretty sure it is still in the DE book. I remember it telling you the different types of lists. Wych Coven, Kabals, Carnivals of Pain. All that kind of stuff.

Oh well. A lot of the users have already been dissolving and chewing down every last little morsel of the book. I am willing to trust most of them on their judgement in this case. Banshees really needed a boost. Instead, they just got chucked into the bin of useless units.

[Bitrider]

They used to have them in the Codex. I am pretty sure it is still in the DE book. I remember it telling you the different types of lists. Wych Coven, Kabals, Carnivals of Pain. All that kind of stuff.

Oh well. A lot of the users have already been dissolving and chewing down every last little morsel of the book. I am willing to trust most of them on their judgement in this case. Banshees really needed a boost. Instead, they just got chucked into the bin of useless units.

We are in agreement. Seems GW should make it easier to find help on running its armies from the creators of the armies.

[Mkvenner]

We are in agreement. Seems GW should make it easier to find help on running its armies from the creators of the armies.

Oh yes, I love the little insight and tidbits. The round table discussion for the Dark Eldar release still gets me excited about them.

[Trystis]

Kinda odd, considering the Hemlock is piloted by a Spiritseer...

So he can fly something larger and faster, and more dangerous (potentially) than a Falcon, but can't turn the throttle of a jetbike?
I'd very much like to hear a fluff explanation for why that happened.

Its because the Hemlock has a wraith co-pilot. They should make a wraith jetbike and then he is good to go.

[Sainhann]

I remember when Dark Eldar came out and GW put up a 'How to run DE' post on the website. In the back of the book there is a section on how hard the DE can be and things you should do to be successful with them. Seems GW should do that with this codex. eh.

Thing it wouldn't help because you really need to have your opponent lose the game for you.

Eldar still lack in the shooting due to their many short range weapons.

Eldar still have the most expensive transports more than double the cost of Marines, Dark Eldar, Imperial Guard transports.

Because of this you are force to foot slogged your way across the table against armies that have far better shooting capabilities.

But look on the bright side Dire Avengers cost twice as such to buy, oh wait that is only a Bright side for GW.

[daboarder]

Thing it wouldn't help because you really need to have your opponent lose the game for you.

Eldar still lack in the shooting due to their many short range weapons.

Yeah but when their in they are devastating, oh and theirs plenty of tough weapon platforms in the codex

Eldar still have the most expensive transports more than double the cost of Marines, Dark Eldar, Imperial Guard transports.

Thats a fair effort, are GW using complex equations in their points system now? Because you now those are all different points, particularly the DE

Because of this you are force to foot slogged your way across the table against armies that have far better shooting capabilities.
???I don't see other armies running before shooting, I'll take that for my nids if its such a lackluster abillity

But look on the bright side Dire Avengers cost twice as such to buy, oh wait that is only a Bright side for GW.
WOW yeah I dunno mate, what did you expect sh*t happens




!!OMG THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING OMG!!!


Go away please.

[Sainhann]

Horrify > Pin > Banshee Charge would have potential, if you could guarantee having Horrify.

Which you can't because you will need to roll it.

[Learn2Eel]

Anyone else notice that the Soulrazor rule (Direswords, The Sword of Asur) say "remove from play" and not instant death? Asurmen walks up to Draigo. "Oh, you have Eternal Warrior? Too bad."
What about the humble Dire Avenger Exarch with a Diresword that, paired with Counter Attack, has four S3 AP2 "Leadership test or remove from play" attacks at I6?

[SeekingOne]

Anyone else notice that the Soulrazor rule (Direswords, Asurmen's Sword) say "remove from play" and not instant death? Asurmen walks up to Draigo. "Oh, you have Eternal Warrior? Too bad."
True. But Draigo still has to fail his Ld10 test first :) Statistically, he'll simply die from normal wounds long before it happens.


What about the humble Dire Avenger Exarch with a Diresword that, paired with Counter Attack, has four S3 AP2 "Leadership test or remove from play" attacks at I6?

That's still S3 though. And, all in all, this means Diresword simply hasn't changed from the previous codex. AND it has never been all that great to begin with. Yet it also became more expensive: Exarch upgrade + diresword cost was +27 pts, now it's +30.

[Seph V.]

These are officially Banshees while everyone else uses their new toys and abilities:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_leulyu0otk1qfy2kdo1_500.gif

[Learn2Eel]

True. But Draigo still has to fail his Ld10 test first :) Statistically, he'll simply die from normal wounds long before it happens.



That's still S3 though. And, all in all, this means Diresword simply hasn't changed from the previous codex. AND it has never been all that great to begin with. Yet it also became more expensive: Exarch upgrade + diresword cost was +27 pts, now it's +30.

Statistics mean little in proper games I've found. The chances of him failing are slim, but it is something important to remember. In any case, it was just an example; it is odd for there to be a "remove from play" weapon nowadays.

[DarkLink]

Well, specifically with bikes it really looks like it's worth it, because, while there are many cover-ignoring weapons and rules, to really hurt bikes they also need to ignore 3+ save - and that is much more rare thing. There's not much stuff that is simultaneously AP3 and ignores cover.

Good point. Definitely worth it, since bikes are so cheap and you can get a Shuriken Cannon. 61pts for 3 with a Shuriken Cannon, 50 for the bike Warlock, so take 6 or maybe even 9 bikes and that's a pretty good bit of firepower and a durable, fast scoring unit.

Then a unit of Rangers is quite a good thing, they're nice and cheap at 12pts, so a unit or two to sit on your objectives and maybe hold a quad gun is nice.

Then fill out your troops with some Dire Avengers in Wave Serpents. Plenty of fast, durable firepower from the Serpent, and some basically Rending Storm Bolters for grabbing objectives.

Sounds like a decent block of troops to me. And a Spirit Seer can get Conceal, so take one and get a unit of Wraithguard in a Serpent as well for a durable troops choice that can kill tanks and ID stuff like Nob Bikerz and those stupid Tau Commanders with Iridium Armor. 4-5 Troops, a couple Fast Skimmers and one HQ for roughly 1000-1100pts. From there start filling out Heavy, FA, and Elite slots. And probably grab a Farseer, too.

[vonevilstein]

True. But Draigo still has to fail his Ld10 test first :) Statistically, he'll simply die from normal wounds long before it happens.

Didn't we just read about a -3 to leadership psychic power?

@L2E. Nice spot. Combo alert!

[Enternet_y]

I was thinking classic jetbike seer council with a farseer surrounded by 'locks all with spears, as well as Nightspear, for HQ, 2 units of jetbikes and 2 ranger squads and 2 Avenger squads in Serpents for troops. Maybe a warlock with each bike unit as well.

What was (one of) Nightspear's special rules again- can he deepstrike with an attached unit? Or am I making that up..

[chicop76]

True. But Draigo still has to fail his Ld10 test first :) Statistically, he'll simply die from normal wounds long before it happens.



That's still S3 though. And, all in all, this means Diresword simply hasn't changed from the previous codex. AND it has never been all that great to begin with. Yet it also became more expensive: Exarch upgrade + diresword cost was +27 pts, now it's +30.

Guess that's where that -3 leadership comes in handy.

[Sonikgav]

I was thinking classic jetbike seer council with a farseer surrounded by 'locks all with spears, as well as Nightspear, for HQ, 2 units of jetbikes and 2 ranger squads and 2 Avenger squads in Serpents for troops. Maybe a warlock with each bike unit as well.

What was (one of) Nightspear's special rules again- can he deepstrike with an attached unit? Or am I making that up..

Nah it was a rumour mix up. Illics ability is essentially, if you have Rangers or Pathfinders that are Outflanking using their infiltrate, they can instead Deep Strike without scattering if they appear within 6" of Illic.

[Vdor103]

Should we start a new thread? I feel like we need some type of transition from "Rumours" to our next phase of juicy discussion!

[DrLove42]

Not only do the P lOrds not have Invuln (which we knew) Asurmen has lost his....

[daboarder]

Not only do the P lOrds not have Invuln (which we knew) Asurmen has lost his....


I was under the impression that Asuryan Baharoth and Jain Zar all had battle luck, giving them a 4++, and JZ and A also had the 3++ challenge option.

[cebalrai]

I was under the impression that Asuryan Baharoth and Jain Zar all had battle luck, giving them a 4++, and JZ and A also had the 3++ challenge option.

This is true.

[DrLove42]

You're probably right i'm at work and have only had a 10 second flick through....

[cebalrai]

Spiritseer.

Wraithseer is the Wraithlord that acts as a Farseer MC. Wouldn't to confuse a bunch of people. Heh.

A Farseer on a bike in that unit is fine enough. Spiritseer doesn't do anything different that a Warlock would do. Also, SINGING SPEARS all the way!


Now I'm going to have to convert a Wraithseer to ride an itty bitty jetbike. :)

[isotope99]

The thing that bugs me about the phoenixes is that lots of them seem better suited to mixing it up with the other aspects than joining their own. Unless I'm missing something this is now allowed

Jain Zarr: Infiltrating forward with Rangers or Scorpions and borrowing their stealth
Maugan Ra: Bolstering a ranger squad and borrowing their stealth
Karandras: Infiltrating some wraithguard/blades and giving stealth
Feugan: Getting a forward position with scorpions and borrowing their stealth
Baharroth:Pretty much needs the hawks or solo for targetted deep strike potential to be hilarious against an unsuspecting target My eyes! :eek: :cool:
Asurmen: Frankly I don't see the point, his tranged attacks are rubbish and there are better combat lords

Terribly unfluffy but otherwise I don't see them giving their hefty points value back.

[daboarder]

Asurmen: Frankly I don't see the point, his tranged attacks are rubbish and there are better combat lords


D3 warlord traits, S5 AP2 I7 combat and a 4++ are nothing to sneeze at

[Defenestratus]

D3 warlord traits, S5 AP2 I7 combat and a 4++ are nothing to sneeze at

And don't forget that if you manage to get off that -3 LD power against your target, Asurmen's sword can make even the most eternal warrior disappear :P

[deaddice]

From what I can tell Jain zar may not have and invulnerable but for purposes of challenges disarm is significantly mroe useful, wham no power fist for you.

[legalsmash]

Everybody get ready to send gw faq emails asap so we can get things straightened up. Like do warlocks roll for powers before being split into units (I doubt it, but I hope so). Do guardians get twin linked if scatter laser hits? (Doubt it but hope so again). If a war walker takes 2 scatter lasers can it fire 1 to iniate target lock so that the other scatter laser can for twin linked? (I think this one may work)
That wont work. Just saying... FAQs dont come out often enough and its often to REALLY fix glaring issues. I don't see that the banshees are ZOGM broken.


I think we (Eldar enthusiasts) are in a bit of a crisis. Despite Edition changes from 3rd, 4th, 5th & to a degree 6th, the Eldar have played the same, or at least maybe we were familiar enough with the Eldar stats & tactics that it was easy to adapt to edition changes.

Now, in this strangest of editions, our beloved Eldar are no longer the army we fell in love with. They are a vastly different army with similarities to our previous codex. GW's reasoning aside (don't get me started), in order for us Eldar guys & gals to be happy with what we have, we're going to have to fall in love with the Eldar all over again.

It's like waking up from a coma & the world has moved on, but you're stuck in the 90's. Same fluff, same models (mostly), completely different army that will need a whole new set of tricks, synergy & as we all are afraid, allies in order to be effective on the table.

Here's hoping we don't get our hearts broken.

I dont think the army needs allies to be effective, but you aren't going to be able to hitstick the high tier armies without cunning. Think shaolin... very specialized, a tool for every purpose, but if you dont use the right one, you be screwed... not all that different from the 90s that I remember, and I've been doing this crap since 1990.


There are 1 or two questions i wouldnt mind answering but alot of the wish listing going on is getting silly.

FAQ's are to solve actual questions you have, not to try and strong-arm GW to add rules/wargear etc to units. The Banshees are screwed, sorry, thats just that.

The Wraithknight can take 4 guns just like the Wraithlord has always been able to take. Its not suddenly gonna get an extra rule to fire all 4. Theyre situational. Think of it as 2 Primary slots and 2 additional for an alternate role/additional effects.

Heavy D-Cannons (to me) seem very Anti-Armor/Monstrous Creature. So let them fill that role. Target gone? Fine, switch to the Double Starcannons for infantry work, or Perhaps your opponent is fielding Squadrons of Light Armor, two Scatter Lasers would be so much better for that etc....

The Suncannon seems more anti infantry, it comes with a shield so add a Scatter Laser to twin link it. One slot left? Theres nothing saying you HAVE to fill that slot?


As for actual questions, one thats probably easy to see, that i missed and im the cautious type. If a Warp Spider unit use the Warp Rift Generator, is there a limitation on movement after or is the chance to lose Squad Members the drawback to them having such rediculous speed?

This man is correct.

[eldargal]

FAQ's are to solve actual questions you have, not to try and strong-arm GW to add rules/wargear etc to units. The Banshees are screwed, sorry, thats just that.
You've never heard of 'errata' then.

[Mkvenner]

You've never heard of 'errata' then.

I don't want to be negative, but I'm going to say right now GW leaves them as is.

"He's dead, Jim."

[eldargal]

I don't want to be negative, but I'm going to say right now GW leaves them as is.

"He's dead, Jim."
Agreed, but we won't know for sure until the next FAQ is up. The DA FAQ added items to units so it isn't like there is no recent precedent. Also the idea that asking GW to fix a unit in an errata is 'strongarming' them is offensively stupid. Strong arming implie some kind of hold over GW which is non-existent in this case. All we can do is ask with little expectation of success.

[cebalrai]

I don't want to be negative, but I'm going to say right now GW leaves them as is.

"He's dead, Jim."

I'll take that bet. I think GW is going to say "oopsie, we meant to say Banshees have grenades".

And than Banshees will make a tremendous improvement, all the way up to mediocre.

[DarkLink]

I can't think of any case where they've ever done that before, except the Helbrute. And they only changed the Helbrute because the points were different in different languages, so I'm not sure that really counts.

[Seph V.]

I played a few games last night with the new eldar. Very fun.

I just finished putting together Illic, and I cant help but keep laughing, cause I KNOW whats going to happen when I play him.

Illic: Got you dead in my sights warlord....*Click*

*On battle field*
Marine 1: Hey commander, I was wondering i- *DEAD*

Illic:...Seriously? Ok, no problem...Random luck...This time...he wont....escape...*Click*

*On battle field*
Marine 2: Oh my gosh commander what happened to Ji- *DEAD*

Illic: WHAT!?! Ok...3rd time is the charm...*Click*

*On battle field*
Marine 3: Whao did you see that!? 2 guys just hit to sniper fi- *DEAD*

Illic: WHY DO ALL THESE GUYS KEEP POPPING UP RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY SHOTS!?!?!?!

Moral of the Story: "Look out sir" because F*** you thats why :D

[Defenestratus]

I played a few games last night with the new eldar. Very fun.

I just finished putting together Illic, and I cant help but keep laughing, cause I KNOW whats going to happen when I play him.

Illic: Got you dead in my sights warlord....*Click*

*On battle field*
Marine 1: Hey commander, I was wondering i- *DEAD*

Illic:...Seriously? Ok, no problem...Random luck...This time...he wont....escape...*Click*

*On battle field*
Marine 2: Oh my gosh commander what happened to Ji- *DEAD*

Illic: WHAT!?! Ok...3rd time is the charm...*Click*

*On battle field*
Marine 3: Whao did you see that!? 2 guys just hit to sniper fi- *DEAD*

Illic: WHY DO ALL THESE GUYS KEEP POPPING UP RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY SHOTS!?!?!?!

Moral of the Story: "Look out sir" because F*** you thats why :D

Very true and indeed very frustrating but he will be very useful for taking out special/heavy weapons in squads.

[isotope99]

Or just as likely , cr@p 3 to wound! cr@p target made his cover save! cr@p why did they only give me one shot a turn?

[DarkLink]

Yeah, ~140pt snipers that still only wound on a 4+ and don't ignore cover or invulnerable saves aren't that impressive.

[Seph V.]

Yeah, ~140pt snipers that still only wound on a 4+ and don't ignore cover or invulnerable saves aren't that impressive.
Thats what I was wondering about.

I mean, Im mainly Alaitoc craftworld, but I think those points are just for bringing the rangers in DS right next to him. Still though, they can infiltrate sooo...

Again, it's cool but...Idk, maybe there is something I'm missing with him? Having a Assault 2 Sniper would have been awesome. But with that one shot, it makes me wonder. Hell, even if just his one shot made it so you couldnt get inv. saves or cover from it would have been awesome.

BEAUTIFUL model none the less though.

[DarkLink]

You'll hit .94444 times, wound .472222 times, and they'll take their 5+ cover or whatever, so you probably only cause an actual wound about 31% of the time. And they can LOS it away from sergeants and characters. Awesome way to spend 140pts.

[Archon Charybdis]

Yeah, if Vindicares can ignore LOS! it's a crime that Illic can't.

[Zak]

I still find it strange that there is no new jetbike. Not so much that we know of the unreleased sculpt, but more due to gw policy of no gaps in the figure range of the codex....
Still no warlock / farseer on bike sculpt - so still a hole in the figure range which needs plugging......

So I do see one coming out at some point in the not too distant future, but disappointed it didnt mske it with the codex release....

[Enternet_y]

I noticed while reading the Illic and ranger entries in the codex that it mentions 'Alaitoc Pathfinders' as distinct from our average joe rangers. I very we'll could've missed it considering that I'm going off of grainy 4chan pics, but I also didn't see an entry for pathfinders on their own either. And I know that pathfinders weren't known exclusively as 'Alaitoc Pathfinders' in the previous codex. Could this be a hint for a future Alaitoc supplement similar to the current Iyanden one?

[deinol]

I noticed while reading the Illic and ranger entries in the codex that it mentions 'Alaitoc Pathfinders' as distinct from our average joe rangers. I very we'll could've missed it considering that I'm going off of grainy 4chan pics, but I also didn't see an entry for pathfinders on their own either. And I know that pathfinders weren't known exclusively as 'Alaitoc Pathfinders' in the previous codex. Could this be a hint for a future Alaitoc supplement similar to the current Iyanden one?

If you have him, you get to upgrade rangers to pathfinders for 13 points. They gain shrouded and sharpshot.

So 2+ cover save in just a out any cover, and whole squads of rangers taking out heavies.

[eris]

Am i right in thinking that if you attach an Autarch with swooping hawk wings to some swooping hawks, they WILL scatter? :l

[DarkLink]

Yeah, Swooping Hawks are specifically worded that way. Because obviously Autarchs are so broken. Good call, Phil Kelly.

[murgel]

Fascinating. I have just read the German codex:
Holofield's second sentence:
"If the vehicle does not already have a cover save...."
And both sentences are in the same paragraph, meaning the second sentence reveres to the first explanatory.
Conclusion for me: you need to have moved the vehicle in the movement phase.
Do we have a vehicle that does NOT get a jink save after moving one inch? (I know of non.)
If we have not, then this could indicate a new vehicle coming.

obligatory banshee :p
Errata - Bansheemask: remove the text in brackets.

btw: Mirrorblades and powerblades are now DSx :(

:o I will get some more Banshees cheap on ebay :o

[DarkLink]

In english, paraphrased: "Provided the vehicle has moved in the previous turn, it gains +1 cover save". So, yes, it is explicit.

[Defenestratus]

In english, paraphrased: "Provided the vehicle has moved in the previous turn, it gains +1 cover save". So, yes, it is explicit.

I always hated that damn rule... it makes blowing up our stuff so easy if you don't go first.

[Tynskel]

i like the codex. it is cool.

as for the autarch, you don't get any special rules, as before. The are just characters. Personally, I will still take them on a jetbike with reaper launcher. now, I'll probably add either the fire axe or the shard of anaris. Mayyybe the Phoenix Gem. annnd maaaaybe a fusion blaster.


What's awesome, actually, is that the warp generator is a jet pack. Take the Reaper Launcher and hang out with striking scorpions!

[Sonikgav]

Yeah the Autarchs do seem kinda interesting...

I was considering...
Jetbike, Laser Lance, Reaper Launcher, Mantle of the Laughing God.

Hes 160 points and has to go alone but hes got Long Range Killing ability, a S7 Assault with 4 AP3 attacks, a re-rollable 2+ Cover Save providing he moves, can just about pick his combats at will and bugger off ASAP with Hit&Run with high enough initiative to pull it off. Only risk is getting bogged down and caught because of course that Lance is a bog standard weapon outside of the charge.

....Also makes a decent tank popper so if you wanna bring him down to 145 points swap the Reaper Launcher for a Deathspinner. S7 against tanks and anything else with low/no initiative (Riptides/Crisis Suits etc) with the chance of AP1.

[deinol]

Where is the reroll to cover saves come from? I thought stealth + shrouded was just +3 to cover saves.

[Sonikgav]

Where is the reroll to cover saves come from? I thought stealth + shrouded was just +3 to cover saves.

Jink Save = 5+ cover save
Mantle adds Stealth and Shrouded.
Jink Save = 2+ cover save
Mantle ALSO adds 'Reroll failed cover saves'

2+ Rerolling :D

[DarkLink]

Mantle of the Laughing God allows you to reroll your cover saves. Personally, I like the Falcon Wings, too.

[Sonikgav]

Mantle of the Laughing God allows you to reroll your cover saves. Personally, I like the Falcon Wings, too.

Im not so much of a fan of the wings. I think Jetbike adds more to him than making him Jump Infantry. He loses the 'Run+Shoot' thing but, you know, Jetbike.

[deinol]

Cool. I clearly should have continued on to read the second sentence.

[Learn2Eel]

I think the Eldar Jetbike mounted Autarch with the Mantle of the Laughing God and kit to bear will be a very nasty commander provided he isn't hit by an ignores cover weapon - but how many of those do you see that are Strength 8, Tau not-withstanding? Fun as hell. Laser Lance and Fusion Gun for me, popping tanks and zooming right out. Anyone else remember that Eldar Jetbikes allow for a 2D6 assault phase move just like Jetpacks? :D

[DarkLink]

Im not so much of a fan of the wings. I think Jetbike adds more to him than making him Jump Infantry. He loses the 'Run+Shoot' thing but, you know, Jetbike.

Who doesn't want to Run 48"?

[Learn2Eel]

Who doesn't want to Run 48"?

In an army where a Jetbike mounted character already "runs" 24" and moves 12" plus a 2D6" assault move, I'm not sure the 48" Run is necessary. Of course, that shouldn't preclude its use; it will allow the character to get the heck out of a tight spot faster than anything else, and it has a lot of other applications.

[Sonikgav]

Oh you mean the Wing of Fal'chu or whatever, i thought u meant the Hawk Wings lol.

Hmm, maybe but i think the Jetbike, as said above, with the 12" move, a 36" Turbo Boost thanks to being an Eldar Jetbike, AND getting the 2D6 Assault move (though i dont think you can do that if youve Turbo Boosted).....id say thats more than enough.

[DarkLink]

In an army where a Jetbike mounted character already "runs" 24" and moves 12" plus a 2D6" assault move, I'm not sure the 48" Run is necessary. Of course, that shouldn't preclude its use; it will allow the character to get the heck out of a tight spot faster than anything else, and it has a lot of other applications.

Take a Warp Jump Generator. Move 6+2d6+48. Why would you ever be satisfied with a mere 36+2D6 move?

[deinol]

Am I reading correctly that while you can only have one Avatar, he can be your only HQ now?

[Learn2Eel]

Take a Warp Jump Generator. Move 6+2d6+48. Why would you ever be satisfied with a mere 36+2D6 move?

:D And that my friend is why Eldar players are tricksy.


Am I reading correctly that while you can only have one Avatar, he can be your only HQ now?

Wait, it used to be that you had to take him with another HQ? The answer is yes by the way. I would laugh out loud (or poop my pants, depending on which side I am on) if the Avatar rolled up the Legendary Fighter Warlord Trait.

[deaddice]

The wraithseer form forge world is the HQ that needs another HQ.

From what I have read you can only have one avatar per force attachment. ( story wise there are multiple avatars).

This blurb says nothing about you only having the avatar and no choice to have another HQ.

[daboarder]

One thing I love, wraithlords get two heavy weapons, not twin link, that's a huge amount of firepower they can put down now.

Dual Bright lance lord, Or the marine murderer with dual starcannons

[Learn2Eel]

The wraithseer form forge world is the HQ that needs another HQ.

From what I have read you can only have one avatar per force attachment. ( story wise there are multiple avatars).

This blurb says nothing about you only having the avatar and no choice to have another HQ.

Yep, so two Avatars at 2000 points.


One thing I love, wraithlords get two heavy weapons, not twin link, that's a huge amount of firepower they can put down now.

Agreed. Trying to figure out which combination of weapons to use will be tricky though, but at least one Scatter Laser seems like a near must have.

[daboarder]

nah scatter lasers are cool, but I'd rather the paired lance/starcannon set ups

the ghostglaive is a nice little boost too.

[Hammerdal]

Jink Save = 5+ cover save
Mantle adds Stealth and Shrouded.
Jink Save = 2+ cover save
Mantle ALSO adds 'Reroll failed cover saves'

2+ Rerolling :D

That's awesome... unless you go second. Then no jink for you. 4+ with a reroll is still pretty good I suppose. GW really should require that a vehicle not be immobilized to jink, not that it had moved in a previous Movement phase (impossible if you haven't had one yet).

[Hammerdal]

One thing I love, wraithlords get two heavy weapons, not twin link, that's a huge amount of firepower they can put down now.

Dual Bright lance lord, Or the marine murderer with dual starcannons

I like this too, but it feels hard to justify this over getting 2 war walkers with the same loadouts for 20 pts less. I think two walkers are more survivable than 1 wraithlord (5+ inv now is nice), and start off with twice the firepower.

[DarkLink]

Yep, so two Avatars at 2000 points.


But only with double FOC. Still one per detachment.

[eris]

Jetbike, Laser Lance, Reaper Launcher, Mantle of the Laughing God.

a S7 Assault with 4 AP3 attacks

What have i missed to get him to s7? Base 3 +3 from the laser lance..

[Mkvenner]

I'll take that bet. I think GW is going to say "oopsie, we meant to say Banshees have grenades".

And than Banshees will make a tremendous improvement, all the way up to mediocre.
Shall we say a friendly wager?


Agreed, but we won't know for sure until the next FAQ is up. The DA FAQ added items to units so it isn't like there is no recent precedent. Also the idea that asking GW to fix a unit in an errata is 'strongarming' them is offensively stupid. Strong arming implie some kind of hold over GW which is non-existent in this case. All we can do is ask with little expectation of success.

I agree. Especially with there being a precedent with the DA. We'll see, I'm just erring on the side where I won't be let down.

[Sonikgav]

What have i missed to get him to s7? Base 3 +3 from the laser lance..

You have missed my inability to do basic math lol. Its 6. For some reason I assumed he was S4.

[murgel]

But only with double FOC. Still one per detachment.

Hm, IMO not really. Or better, not necessarily.
below 2k, with one FOC + allies, there could be 2 Avatars. One from CW x and the allied from CW Y.
Depending on whether you say 2xFOC=> 2x allies; then you could make that 4 Avatars.

The feather of "who?" Just call him Flash.
Take it on Illic, DS unit to him in turn 2, let him move and run 6"+ 48" and DS next unit to the new position.

WJG => the magical relentless racing car => 120" Sniper/48" Reaper ...

[Learn2Eel]

Just a few notes mate;
1) You can't ally with your own army unfortunately (Tyranid players wish they could).
2) Illic can't take any options, so no Wing for him sadly.

Nice idea though!

[murgel]

Just a few notes mate;
1) You can't ally with your own army unfortunately (Tyranid players wish they could).
2) Illic can't take any options, so no Wing for him sadly.

Nice idea though!

Sad about Illic.
However, as a solely fluff centred player I have to state that Saim Hann is another army than Altaioc etc. The same goes for Tyranid Hive fleets.
So, does it say army from codex X or does it say army? :rolleyes:

[Sonikgav]

Sad about Illic.
However, as a solely fluff centred player I have to state that Saim Hann is another army than Altaioc etc. The same goes for Tyranid Hive fleets.
So, does it say army from codex X or does it say army? :rolleyes:

You cannot ally with an army from your own codex. Otherwise you would already have Salamanders + Iron Hands lists, or Iron Warriors + Emperors Children, or a mix of Tau cepts, guard regiments, Necron Dynasties or any number of other mixes etc.

Gonna have to wait and see how it works with any rules in the supplement though.

[DarkLink]

Hm, IMO not really. Or better, not necessarily.
below 2k, with one FOC + allies, there could be 2 Avatars. One from CW x and the allied from CW Y.
Depending on whether you say 2xFOC=> 2x allies; then you could make that 4 Avatars.

Just... go read the ally rules. Trust us. Absolute max of 2 Avatars, only in double FOC so you'll need 4 troops minimum to go with it.




2) Illic can't take any options, so no Wing for him sadly.

Nice idea though!

If they could, though... Avatar with Falcon Wings and the Mantle? Hilarious, for the Eldar player.

[The Girl]

Now that the codex is out, please move your conversations to the appropriate 40K subforums.

This thread will be closed in the next 24 hours.