2000pt Guardsman mobile army

[walrusman999]

HQ:
Command Squad
-3 veterans
= Medipack
= Heavy Flamer
= Melta gun
- Colonel "Iron Hand" Straken
- Colour Seargent Kell
- Nork Deddog

Elites:
Ratling squad
-10 man

Storm Troopers:
- 10 man
- Plasma Gun x2

Storm Troopers:
- 10 man
- Plasma Gun x2

Troops:
Veteran Squad
- Demolitions
- Melta Gun x3

Veteran Squad
- Grenadiers
- Heavy Flamer
- Flamer x2
Sergeant
- Plasma Pistol
- Power sword

Veteran Squad
- Melta Gun
- Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squad
- Melta gun
- Heavy Flamer

Fast Attack:
Vendetta
- Heavy Bolter sponsons

Vendetta
- Heavy Bolter sponsons

Vendetta
- Heavy Bolter sponsons

Heavy Support:
Vanquisher
- Lascannon
- Plasma cannon Side sponsons

[walrusman999]

By the lack of response, there is little in the way of suggestions and such? I will be proxy-ing this army in the near future to see how effective it is. Meanwhile, if someone has a suggestion please feel free to enlighten me.

[Colonel Bindoff]

There's quite a few I'd suggest. First I count four vet squads but only three transports. If you're planning on using those special weapons you'll need to be closer.

Veteran squad should always have all three special weapon slots filled. No questions.

Do you really want a close combat orientated hq? Even with Nork and Iron arm or whatever his name is, you'll lose to a half decent enemy.

Vanquishers look cool but you already have 3 vendettas for tank hunting. May I recommend an executioner?

Also think hard about stormtroopers. Their ap3 guns will still only wound marines on 5+

There is more but I'm on a train and tunnels/badlands approaching

[walrusman999]

When you get a chance, i'd be glad to here more. I already eliminated the vanquisher before you posted, and i dropped one of the veteran squads to take up extra valkyries. I'd like to here more thoughts when you get a chance. and what kind of guard army you play.

[Colonel Bindoff]

I vary my list a lot - generally i like a static element with some fairly mobile armour or air cav to support. Off the top of my head, if I were going to tweak the list above whilst keeping the mobile theme, i'd probably go with:

HQ:
Command Squad
medic
h flamer
melta x 2
- Colonel "Iron Hand" Straken

Elites:
Ratling squad
-10 man

Storm Troopers:
- Plasma Gun x2

Storm Troopers:
- Plasma Gun x2

Troops:
Veteran Squad
Lascannon
plasma x3
chimera

Troops:
Veteran Squad
Lascannon
plasma x3
chimera

Veteran Squad
3 melta

Veteran Squad
3 melta

Fast Attack:
Vendetta

Vendetta

Vendetta

Heavy Support:
Vanquisher
- Lascannon

Executioner
plasma cannon side sponsons

Hydra


There are some things I'd change for my own style - I like snipers, but not the ratling models so personally wouldn't take them. Having said that, I do often take a special weapon squad with snipers - they never seem to achieve anything but seem very distracting for some of the people i play against.
I took out Nork and Kell - Kell because i don't think orders are high on the priority in this list and Nork because i don't expect CHQ to last long in combat anyway so the points seem very high. I certainly think that 3 special characters and an HQ costing (i think) 400 points is way too much for a close combat guard unit that most likely are going to find themselves at the wrong end of some berzerker's fists or terminator's pointy stick. Keep iron hand if you like, but be prepared to lose him to anyone with a serious combat bias.

I put in the chimeras mostly for mobility-theme. that way i think everything bar the snipers have some form of transport, which gives options but also fits a mobile theme.

I cut down the stormies to five man squads - i wasn't sure about this; i don't really use stormies much, although had some joy with five man melta-suicide squads. Don't really know your game plan for these - plasma guns have good range, hotshot guns a bit on the short side but still rifle-esque so assuming you'd engage mid range from enfilade position to make use of their good deep striking. But generally i see the non plasma guys as wound markers - remember that hotshots vs marines need 5s to wound, and at 16 points a pop i'd want more for my money.

I took out some heavy flamers because i think they are too expensive at 20points, but roll with them if you think it's worth the points.

Other than that, squeezed in another russ and a hydra; would be tempted to lose the hydra and ratlings for another tank, but that's just me.

Note - I'm not a big tournament player (although i do like to win) so i can't claim this would be the single most competitive list, but i think it would keep a nice level of variety and give you a fighting chance.

[Dorsai]

I used to love Straken with his furious charge, but since he can no longer go at the same time as the Marines I would charge him against, him and his squad take a hell of a beating before he gets his hits back. Even with Nork and medic it is likely he will die before doing much damage. Under 5th he was a beast that my local marine players tended to shoot at rather than assault. In 6th, Straken just doesn't seem worth the points.

And other than the ability to deepstrike, I've never been impressed with stormtroopers. Yeah, their hellguns are ap3, but still only strength 3. I've told my friends it is like having a gun that will go through a person's cloths, but not hurt the flesh under it. If you can wound the target, you are likely to kill them. But needing 5+ to wound most of what they will see, I haven't seen them pay for themselves.

Under 5th, I was loving my full squadron of Hydra's, but since they aren't that useful against the ground anymore, I haven't bothered with them. The Vendetta's are great against opposing aircraft. Have them come on, take out aircraft first, then focus on the ground.

The Vanquisher is of dubious value. Seeing how easy it is to take out vehicles now days, I'm not sure you want it to be sitting by itself. I run two Executioners with plasma sponsons squadroned. Makes them more survivable that way. Also makes people afraid of getting in rage knowing that ten plasma blasts will be coming at them. I'd also look at putting Pask in one of them. Making those plasma blasts str 8 when he doesn't move is pretty useful.

I also love infantry platoons at large point values. Being able to put all those heavy weapon squads on the table scares people. I usually run three autocannon squads and one squad of lascannons. The take a commissar or two and blob the infantry squads and you have a pretty mean unit. And that make five scoring units for the cost of one force org slot.

For my other two troop choices I'll take a squad of melta vets in a chimera with demolitions. Trust me, vehicles fear that squad. Even superheavies will not like having ten MBs slapped on them. Then I take a squad of sniper vets with an autocannon, Bastonne, and Forward Sentries. Put them in cover holding an objective and watch your opponent have to either deepstrike or have something get in close fast to assault them to get them off.

Of course, I am still learning how to shift my tactics from 5th to 6th, but these are my observations of things. So take them with a grain of salt and really test run you list against people. I'm finding the tourny scene locally is fading, but the pick up games are getting far more fun.

[walrusman999]

Ill be trying out my list on Friday hopefully. this will be quite interesting. Yes the plan for the command was to CC but I agree they do not put out enough damage even if i roll very well. We will see how they stand up to marines. As for the storm troopers, they are indeed expensive, but the plan was to deep-strike and contest points if not clear them for veterans to move in. The vanquisher can instantly pop vehicles with a 5 or 6 because of its AP2, which is why its along while the vendettas indeed, kill anything that could remove them from the skies afterword they will be mopping up choice targets. The veterans are mainly for holding objectives, but i did make it possible for them to scoot around in vendettas and cause some havoc with the full melta unit and demolitions as well as the squad of plasma's to help storm troopers clear objectives. The rattlings are there to pin stuff and basically cause havoc among ranks with pinning and rending. the precise shot ability is just an added bonus.

[Colonel Bindoff]

I'll be interested to know how the battle goes. Do you know who you're playing?

[walrusman999]

Not someone from this site, or at least i do not know his forum name if he has one. He is looking at playing a catachan varient but most likely i will be playing his little brother whom stomped my last IG army, the one with tons of heavy weapons and the executioner/std-russ tank squadron, and he plays space wolves. Hence why i was trying to make a mobile army that can hopefully kill off enough space marines to get him to flee far enough away that he can't regroup and atk me.

[Dorsai]

The best way to fight Marines is like the Tau do. Make them pay such a high price getting into assault range that they can't kill you. That means killing them at long range. with high strength weapons. Executioners are superb at this.

[walrusman999]

Alrighty so im bringing this to you only a few hrs after the game finished. Started around 230 finished by 730 for a 2000pt game, including minor interruptions to help my gf and his brother figure out how their guys worked on the other table.
My army was similar to what i listed at first but was the following:
HQ:
Company command
-plasma
-melta
-heavyflamer
-bodyguard
-Officer of the fleet

Elites
Ratlings
-10 man squad

Storm troopers - Airborne special ops
-10 man squad
-2 plasma guns

Storm troopers - Airborne special ops
-10 man squad
- 2 plasma guns

Troops
Veteran squad
-3 meltas
-Demolitions

Veteran squad
-3 plasma
-Grenadiers

Veteran Squad
-Melta
-Heavy flamer

Veteran Squad
-Melta
-Heavy flamer

Fast attack
Vendetta
-3 total
-All with heavy bolter sponsons

Heavy Support
Executioner
-Lascannon
-Plasma sponsons

Vanquisher
-Lascannon
-Plasma Sponsons

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~

I was up against Space marines with the following

HQ
Some special Master of the forge Tech marine dude who repairs stuff better

Troops
3 Ironclad Dreadnaughts with 2 Hunter killers per dread

2 Tactical teams with flamer each

Heavy support (And somewhere in here i think he got away with 5 heavy support choices and he had 4 or something due to some bs rule he was using from Imperial armor 10. Some weird space marine varient [assault of the ancients?])

A thunderfire cannon
3 vindicators (all fielded separately)
and A broken as F*** Landraider that had adamantium armor BUllS***, a Thunderfire cannon on the front, and multi-melta sponsons. (This tank also had cronus in it for a BS of 5. :/)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So the results, well i lost, but not before taking out almost everything he had vehicular wise. My vendettas performed perfectly, first turn, imobilizing 1 vind, exploding another. The vets with the same 3 weapons were embarked on different vendettas, the plasmas went down and they were able to get out (it was hovering at the time). They really didnt do much that game because they lost their transport. The meltas killed the imobilized vindicator then died in a hail of gunfire and flames from one of his tactical squads. The tanks harrassed his dreadnaughts all game killing 1 and otherwise doing nothing. The Ratlings were a nice diversion and drew alot of fire from the landraider and normal thunderfire cannons for two turns and a vindicator shell before fleeing from the table. The veterans kinda all moved toward the objective and got owned by thunderfire cannons (I hate them with a passion now).
Now everyone was giving me a hard time about the storm troopers. They were a waste of points only wounded on 5's, stuff like that. So of course I try to deep strike them behind his tactical squad and the thunderfire cannon because it was ripping my troops to shreds. I scatter off the table for the cannon and forget my re-roll to scatter. Roll a 3 on the mishap and he puts them where my ratlings use to be, they all survive. The second squad scatters ontop of the wrecked vindicator from the first turn and i lose 3 of them to difficult terrain tests, also forgetting my re-roll to scatter :/. Meanwhile the vendettas blew so many holes in almost every vehicle including putting two penetrating hits into the landraider on the top of the 4th turn to imobilize it and destroy the thunderfire cannon.

In the end, I was tabled. he wiped my entire army out. I'm working on a new list. The hq i had didnt really benefit me at all so im looking at a psyker or lord commisar one or the other. And I'm gonna drop the tanks for more vendettas with sponsons as they will kill more tanks faster and will have more heavy bolters to throw at people since the plasmas scattered off target a majority of the time anyway (And GETS-HOT saves nearly killed the vanquisher). I'm torn as to whether i eliminate the storm troopers or give them another go since they really failed because I forgot to re-roll the scatter. The ratlings were nice cannon fodder and for 100points the only other thing i would get would be veteran squads.

Thoughts and comments please :)

[Colonel Bindoff]

I think 'giving you a hard time' is a little harsh bro... Just trying to be honest!

I'll caveat the following by saying that all advice people give is based on their own experiences. Things may pan out differently for you depending on your opponents, their lists, how kind the lady is being to you etc.

Re your stormtroopers. Yeah, unfortunate that you forgot your rerolls. I would say that generally a single experience with a unit type is not going to be representative of its efficiency. I didn't like vendettas at first because the one I fielded kept getting shot down quickly. I learned though.

The problem is, and I'll say it again, you're paying over 200 points for each squad. You can get two squads of melta vets for that. With change. Guardsmen are never going to match marines on a one on one basis; think about what he can get for the money. 5 terminators? A full tactical squad? Devastators? All better choices in my opinion. Then consider that you have two of those squads, plus plasma sponsons you seem to be thinking twice about. That's now getting towards 500points you could spend on other things. Three more vendettas, two more russes. Just food for thought mate.

Also remember target priority with your fliers. Anything with sky fire is high on the list, then hit whatever is going to hurt you most. With a flyer heavy list I'd have though the vindicators might have been a lower priority. Although obviously depends what they were near!

Thanks for letting us know how it went. Interesting reading!