Basilisks and shooting

[Popsical]

Im not a guard player, so this is just a curiosity question really.
Ive always thought of the basilisk as having a minimum range for shooting indirectly but no minimum range over "open sights" direct. A fellow gamer mentioned in conversation that no one takes bazzies because the minimum range is just not practical on a 4 foot depth table. Now this guy maybe wrong as he doesnt play gaurd either, but i just think it sounds daft that it cant fire over open sights like say the british 25pdr or german 88s of WW2.
So how does it work then folks?

[Wolfshade]

Basilisks can fire directly at targets outside the minimum range and in line of sight or indirectly at targets outside line of sight or within the minimum range.
Directly the scatter 2D6 - firer's BS,
indirectly they scatter 2D6

[Popsical]

Yes those were what he was saying. At a minimum range of 36"? I can kind of understand the logic of leaving them alone. Pretty much after turn 2 most enemy will be within 36' and thus neutralise ir.
Bit pants really lol.

[Wolfshade]

IIRC between 0"-36" the can still fire at targets but it is Indirectly

[Popsical]

IIRC between 0"-36" the can still fire at targets but it is Indirectly

Ah i see now (said the blind man to his deaf wife). Lol.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Not so bad after all.
Is there a page that can be referred to?

[Wolfshade]

I don't have my rule book with me but apparently its Barrage pp34 first bullet point on the left side, second sentence. (from here (http://www.40konline.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=d240177f1c69bba344ec638fdd8f47 ee&topic=222631.msg2693284#msg2693284))

[inquisitorsog]

Is there a page that can be referred to?
See p34 under barrages. First bullet says what Wolfshade is talking about. I can't find a discussion of minimum range other than there either.

[Wildcard]

Basically the scatter rules are similar in firing inside minimum range and firing without LoS. If you roll "Hit" its a hit, if you roll arrow, it scatters full 2d6, with no substraction of firers ballistic skill..

[ash23]

When i used them they were always positioned on a flank, i think diagonally the board is 74 inches across (assuming 6x4) they are pretty good at hitting enemy units holding objectives behind cover like the small gaunt or gaurd squads etc. Not played or used much in this edition so i can't speak from experience. I imagine that camo netting would be great for guard vehicles and yet i've never seen it used. Oh and apoc etc were the range can really be used thinks its like 20ft or something silly like that.

[Wolfshade]

Diagonally it is 86.5" ((6^2+4^2)^.5=7.2') but in realitiy it will be shorter than this as the barrel of the gun would not be in that far corner.
Assuming the Bassilisk is approximately 4"x2" and it is parked on the table with its long edge adjecent to the short edge of the board you then end up with approximately 1/3rd of the board within the minimum distance

[Colonel Bindoff]

Ordinance barrage weapons can fire either:
A) indirect, in which case minimum and maximum ranges apply, and
B) direct, in which case only maximum applies.

As said above, scatter dice used for both types, but direct shots can reduce scatter by up to BS value.

Ordinance barrage rules for reference.

Which means the bazzy isn't totally useless on a 6' by 4'. Although I usually just plonk it in the corner and rain death on the furthest objectives.

[JMichael]

Ordinance barrage weapons can fire either:
A) indirect, in which case minimum and maximum ranges apply, and
B) direct, in which case only maximum applies.

As said above, scatter dice used for both types, but direct shots can reduce scatter by up to BS value.

Ordinance barrage rules for reference.

Which means the bazzy isn't totally useless on a 6' by 4'. Although I usually just plonk it in the corner and rain death on the furthest objectives.

Wrong, you may be thinking of 5th edition. Read the previous posts that correctly describe and give page references.
in your post. A=no min range, B=min range

[Colonel Bindoff]

Wrong, you may be thinking of 5th edition. Read the previous posts that correctly describe and give page references.
in your post. A=no min range, B=min range

Fair enough. Misread and misplayed. Back in the cupboard it goes. Sad face.

[Nabterayl]

Out of curiosity, is 3" less scatter really that big a deal, for the benefits of barrage sniping, shooting over cover, and hitting vehicles on their side armor?

[bfmusashi]

It's really surprising how often that 3" mattered last ed., but now that it's full strength under the whole template I'm thinking it's indirect all the time. Except Medusae.

[Nabterayl]

Yeah, it seems to me like the template changes make a big difference. But what do I know? I play orks. To toss a sample target around ... a Chimera is about 3.75" wide and 4.5" long. Assuming you can target the center of the vehicle (and it's an Earthshaker cannon; why couldn't you?), you have to roll a 5" scatter or greater to miss when firing indirectly - and so, an 8" scatter or greater to miss when firing directly. That's a 75% miss chance, as opposed to a 25% miss chance with direct fire. Factor in the base 1/3 chance to score a direct hit and, when firing at a Chimera, indirect fire will hit 50% of the time and direct fire 83% of the time.

I don't play a lot of Guard players, but it seems to me that 50% accuracy, not having to deal with cover, and hitting side armor is at least roughly as good as 83% accuracy dealing with cover and hitting front armor? I know those numbers are only spot on for Chimerae, but ... have people actually given it a go?

[Wolfshade]

I think the biggest change is now the hole doesn't need to be over the hull for it to be full strength, it makes vindicators really good at ruining guard car parks.