GK psyker FAQ?

[Kyban]

The BRB states pretty clearly that which powers are used is chosen at deployment but then I saw this:

A Grey Knights Librarian may use the psychic disciplines found in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, instead of those in Codex: Grey Knights. If he does so, generate a number of psychic powers equal to his Mastery Level from the Divination, Pyromancy or Telekinesis disciplines (in any combination) before armies are deployed. If he does so he may not purchase additional powers. Hammerhand cannot be exchanged in this manner.
-GK FAQ
What do you make of it, just bad wording?

[Nabterayl]

I think they're saying that you can purchase a/accept t he default mastery level, but you can't purchase a mastery level, choose to use BRB disciplines instead of codex disciplines, and then purchase additional codex powers.

[Kyban]

I think they're saying that you can purchase a/accept t he default mastery level, but you can't purchase a mastery level, choose to use BRB disciplines instead of codex disciplines, and then purchase additional codex powers.

But since you choose which to use when you deploy but buy your powers at list creation it doesn't make any sense to have that restriction.

[Nabterayl]

Well, probably not, but the fact that you can demonstrate the answer from the rules without a FAQ doesn't mean it doesn't get asked enough to warrant a FAQ anyway.

EDIT: What isn't really clear from any source until now (at least not to my knowledge) is when you opt to switch codex for rulebook. While the actual spells used in the game are generated prior to deployment, the FAQ implies that the choice to use discipline spells at all is made at list creation. In other words, you can't purchase an array of codex powers for your librarian, show up at the table, and say, "Oh, I think I'll switch to disciplines" once you see your opponent's army. You can show up to the table with an array of codex powers, or you can show up to the table obliged to generate powers from any of the disciplines the psyker knows, but apparently you have to decide up front which option you'll use.

[inquisitorsog]

Hardly the first time we've seen GW either be sloppy about or forget that army list creation time is significantly different than saying pre-deploy.
There's what, potentially 5 steps in between?

[Nabterayl]

I'm not sure they were this time. Without this FAQ, you could buy codex powers and then decide, after you've seen your opponent's army but before deployment, that you'd rather use discipline powers instead. With it, you can't. That seems very much like GW's thinking to me.

[zenjah]

I agree that the wording is bad. Purchasing of powers happens well before generating random psychic powers, and so the phrase "if he does so he may not purchase additional powers" is a bit confusing.

I think this would have been more clear:

"A Grey Knights Librarian who has not purchased any psychic powers from Codex: Grey Knights may use the psychic disciplines found in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. If he does so, generate a number of psychic powers equal to his Mastery Level from the Divination, Pyromancy or Telekinesis disciplines (in any combination) before armies are deployed. Hammerhand cannot be exchanged in this manner."

But either way, I think that is what they mean.

[DarkLink]

The FAQ makes perfect sense, but yes, you do have to decide when writing your armylist.

You start with PM 2. You can buy PM 3. Separately, you buy as many powers as you want for 5pts each. You always have Hammerhand by default.

If you buy PM 3, then instead of buying the 5pt powers you may instead take 3 rulebook powers. If you're only PM 2, then you can only take 2 rulebook powers.

[Kyban]

It sounds like you would choose whether to use the BRB powers or buy codex powers at list building then if you picked BRB you roll them before deployment but the Eldar FAQ is done differently:

A Farseer (including Eldrad Ulthran) may use the psychic disciplines found in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, instead of those in Codex: Eldar. If he does so, for each psychic power he has purchased from Codex: Eldar, generate a new power from either the Divination or Telepathy discipline (in any combination) before armies are deployed. Eldrad Ulthran generates four new powers.
-Eldar FAQ
Looks like 2 different people wrote the FAQs with different interpretations of the rules. The CSM codex allows you to treat theirs as a BRB discipline and pick from all of them at deployment, only thing you choose at list building is ML. So how should I do the older codices? My LGS chooses at deployment right now, though they generally have already decided what they are going to use beforehand and it doesn't change based on their opponent's list.

[Nabterayl]

They both operate the same way. When creating your list, choose whether your psyker will use rulebook or codex powers. Sometimes this essentially requires you to buy codex powers either way (as old sorcerers did, for instance). If you choose rulebook powers, generate them prior to deployment so your opponent can see your rolls.

[dreadnoughtguy]

It is only talking about the psychic powers not the mastery level of the character. If you pay the points to gain mastery level 3 you then can generate 3 powers out of the BRB. You can not get three from the BRB and buy some from the dex also.

[WillyRapier]

The reason that Eldar (and most others that enable you to buy powers) is done in that way, and GK isnt, is because most other armies dont have Mastery Levels; they were a late addition in 5th that pointed to a change in 6th.

GK already have a mastery level, and so can generate that number. with Farseers (in this example) you dont have a mastery (although it would have been relatively easy to add them to the rulebook in the references section, similar to the unit type notations in the army lists) and so the number of powers you can generate must come from some other means, and they chose to use the number of power's you'd bought.

[Kyban]

The reason that Eldar (and most others that enable you to buy powers) is done in that way, and GK isnt, is because most other armies dont have Mastery Levels; they were a late addition in 5th that pointed to a change in 6th.

GK already have a mastery level, and so can generate that number. with Farseers (in this example) you dont have a mastery (although it would have been relatively easy to add them to the rulebook in the references section, similar to the unit type notations in the army lists) and so the number of powers you can generate must come from some other means, and they chose to use the number of power's you'd bought.

The FAQ introduces MLs though.

Does everyone here decide whether to use BRB powers at list creation? My LGS has been switching them out at Deployment, have we been doing it wrong? The wording is pretty unclear in the BRB and FAQs.

[Nabterayl]

Does everyone here decide whether to use BRB powers at list creation? My LGS has been switching them out at Deployment, have we been doing it wrong? The wording is pretty unclear in the BRB and FAQs.
Well, I do now. I think the wording was pretty unclear prior to the GK FAQ that kicked this thread off. I think that FAQ leads inescapably to the conclusion that you have to decide whether to use BRB powers at list creation, even though you still find out which ones you actually get prior to deployment.

[DarkLink]

The FAQ introduces MLs though.

The Grey Knight codex introduced Mastery Levels to the game.

[Kyban]

The Grey Knight codex introduced Mastery Levels to the game.

Right, I was just saying that they did have a ML so they didn't have to base it off of purchased powers like Rapier was suggesting.

[Anakzar]

Actually there were Psychic mastery levels way back in 2nd Ed when we had a force card deck to play with. And many had random powers too... So whats old is new again ;)