Chaos Daemon FAQ Up

[Bigred]

Latest Chaos Daemons FAQ (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2750012a_Chaos_Daemons_v1.2.pdf).

Here's the new part:


Q: Do models chosen from Codex: Chaos Daemons and / or the White
Dwarf, August 2012, Codex: Chaos Daemons official update have the
Daemon special rule from the Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook, or do they
have the Daemon army special rule from Codex: Chaos Daemons?
(p27)

A: All models from Codex: Chaos Daemons and/or the White
Dwarf, August 2012, Codex: Daemons official update have the
Daemon army special rule listed in Codex: Chaos Daemons
with the addition of the Fear special rule from the Warhammer
40,000 rulebook and a 5+ invulnerable save.

[miteyheroes]

Everyone causes Fear, nice. Flamers/Screamers do have 5++, although it's still a bit messy that it doesn't have it on their profiles like other daemons.

What about models that previously had a better than 5++ invulnerable save? Horrors? I assume they keep it, but someone is bound to be irritating and say their save is now 5++ not 4++...

[Lost Vyper]

Grey Knights are gonna be happy too :)

[zenjah]

Why will Grey Knights be happy?

[Defenestratus]

Latest Chaos Daemons FAQ (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2750012a_Chaos_Daemons_v1.2.pdf).

Here's the new part:

Great - so they have eternal warrior?

[WarWalker]

I read it as all daemons now have a 5++, the FAQ makes no distinction between one daemon or the next, unlike the Eldar Avatar where it clearly states that he has the Daemon rule except that his save is 4++.

[WarWalker]

Although that would hurt models like Fateweaver really badly... sigh... is it too much to ask GW to take these obvious questions into consideration?

[sfshilo]

Although that would hurt models like Fateweaver really badly... sigh... is it too much to ask GW to take these obvious questions into consideration?

OR you could quit trying to be a rules lawyer and go by what everyone else knows is the right way to play the unit.

Tzeench always have a 4++, the damn daemon rule doesn't override their stats. It says that nowhere in the FAQ, the precedence is if it changes, then the profile is updated.

If WD didn't list a save, then they get the daemon save, Fateweaver and for that matter Ku'Gath are not even in this discussion. (They both have Daemon and a 4++ save)

If you tried that argument on me in a non-tourney game, the game would be over; I didn't come to the store to deal with someone that can't just play the game for fun.

This is JUST like the zombies, people trying to break the game instead of just playing the game.

(Why the hell would thousand sons have a 4++ but not fateweaver??? Give me a break!)

[plawolf]

So, play it my way or I'm throwing the dummy out of the pram and taking all my toys home? Nice.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I read it as all daemons now have a 5++, the FAQ makes no distinction between one daemon or the next, unlike the Eldar Avatar where it clearly states that he has the Daemon rule except that his save is 4++.That's like saying a Grey Knights Brother-captain can't take his Iron Halo 4++ save because he has a Termie Armour 5++ save :/

Plenty of models in the game have multiple Inv Saves, Daemons are no different, the FAQ didn't say "All Daemons in the codex lose their Inv. save and replace it with a 5++". They simply always use the best one.

[BatMarine]

Well actually this FAQ doesn't rescind other invulnerable saves granted, so Fateweaver has a 4++ and a 5++ and you are required by the book to take the best option.

[thisisnotpancho]

Well actually this FAQ doesn't rescind other invulnerable saves granted, so Fateweaver has a 4++ and a 5++ and you are required by the book to take the best option.

Fateweaver has a 3+, not 4+...

Plus now soul grinders get a 5+, as they are a unit in the chaos daemons codex with the 'daemon' special rule

[Nabterayl]

That's like saying a Grey Knights Brother-captain can't take his Iron Halo 4++ save because he has a Termie Armour 5++ save :/

Plenty of models in the game have multiple Inv Saves, Daemons are no different, the FAQ didn't say "All Daemons in the codex lose their Inv. save and replace it with a 5++". They simply always use the best one.
Seconded. The FAQ offers no rules-lawyer loopholes to replace anybody's invulnerable save.

[bfmusashi]

OR you could quit trying to be a rules lawyer and go by what everyone else knows is the right way to play the unit.

Tzeench always have a 4++, the damn daemon rule doesn't override their stats. It says that nowhere in the FAQ, the precedence is if it changes, then the profile is updated.

If WD didn't list a save, then they get the daemon save, Fateweaver and for that matter Ku'Gath are not even in this discussion. (They both have Daemon and a 4++ save)

If you tried that argument on me in a non-tourney game, the game would be over; I didn't come to the store to deal with someone that can't just play the game for fun.

This is JUST like the zombies, people trying to break the game instead of just playing the game.

(Why the hell would thousand sons have a 4++ but not fateweaver??? Give me a break!)

Angry panties make you angry. I suggest the boxers of disgruntlement.

[sfshilo]

So, play it my way or I'm throwing the dummy out of the pram and taking all my toys home? Nice.

I think the way it would go at our store is, "HEY EVERYONE, AL is being a giant dick and let people make fun of them until they give up on their anal rule interpretations."

Rule lawyers don't last long at our store, they either have to give up on being a prick (And yes, I'm calling you a prick for making the aforementioned ruling) and enjoy the game or they end up leaving since they will never have fun at our store. (Notice the "our"? The owner wants everyone to contribute, not just him; which means he encourages making sure everyone plays nice or he will "fix" the problem...)

[WarWalker]

OR you could quit trying to be a rules lawyer and go by what everyone else knows is the right way to play the unit.

Tzeench always have a 4++, the damn daemon rule doesn't override their stats. It says that nowhere in the FAQ, the precedence is if it changes, then the profile is updated.

If WD didn't list a save, then they get the daemon save, Fateweaver and for that matter Ku'Gath are not even in this discussion. (They both have Daemon and a 4++ save)

If you tried that argument on me in a non-tourney game, the game would be over; I didn't come to the store to deal with someone that can't just play the game for fun.

This is JUST like the zombies, people trying to break the game instead of just playing the game.

(Why the hell would thousand sons have a 4++ but not fateweaver??? Give me a break!)


Woooah, down Fido, i wasn't trying to lawyer anyone on anything, merely just discussing how the rule was worded. I happen to agree with the others that it's perfectly legal to have more than one invul save.

There are a couple things you got wrong though skippy, only one out of the three lesser Tzeench daemons have 4++ saves. Fateweaver and Lords of Change have 3++.

Also, don't throw your toys (and they ARE toys) out of the cot, this is a forum for debate, not a platform to vent nerd rage.

[plawolf]

I think the way it would go at our store is, "HEY EVERYONE, AL is being a giant dick and let people make fun of them until they give up on their anal rule interpretations."

Rule lawyers don't last long at our store, they either have to give up on being a prick (And yes, I'm calling you a prick for making the aforementioned ruling) and enjoy the game or they end up leaving since they will never have fun at our store. (Notice the "our"? The owner wants everyone to contribute, not just him; which means he encourages making sure everyone plays nice or he will "fix" the problem...)

So now it's play it my way or I'm going to call you names and get my buddies on you? Real nice. :rolleyes:

Look to the others for ideas on how to use your words to resolve such disputes amicably like an adult instead of reverting to juvenile tantrums and bully tactics.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Well, the Invulnerable save discussion seems to have devolved into bickering, so I'm going to mention what I was VERY pleased was NOT altered at this stage, and that is the Tally of Nurgle from Epidemius.

He and a fat unit of 20 Plaguebearers have been allying with Typhus and lots of Death Guard/Mark of Nurgle guys to DEVASTATING effect, and I'm talking tabling 3K of Space Marines twice in a row now. Once Epidemius turns up, the Tally racks up pretty quickly, and as long as you actually keep him out of the fight and protected for long enough, your army becomes nigh-on indestructible!

There are builds which stand better chances against them, for example Mech Guard and anything particularly vehicle-heavy, but otherwise a full Tally gives your Mark of Nurgle buddies Noxious Touch (2+ poison) and Armour-ignoring CC AND shooting attacks, which is literally devastating against ALL infantry (you rapid fire Death Guard Bolters against Terminators, they're likely to go down HARD, Inv saves notwithstanding). On top of this, your Plaguebearers and Plague Marines have T5, 3+ for the Marines, 5++ for the Plagueys AND in most cases FNP on 3+ as well (Unless Vs S10 weapons).

Honest to Papa Nurgle, I have NEVER had an army as effective and completely annihilating an infantry-heavy army. You can build decent anti-air and anti-vehicle in there too, and with a full Tally even Nidzilla lists would struggle (Noxious Touch and the Ignore Armour would beat the crap outta them!). CronAir would likely fare better.

What you think?