View Full Version : In what order were the Primachs found?
imperialsavant
10-09-2009, 06:28 PM
:confused: I know I should know this & Iam sure I read it somewhere but dont remember!
i know Alpharus was the last Primach found but who was the first & what was the order after that?
Abominable Plague Marine
10-09-2009, 07:06 PM
Well Horus was first, but Im pretty sure the rest were found in order of their Legion, ie: Dark Angels were the 1st Legion, so Jonson was found 1st after Horus, and so on...........
Sitnam
10-09-2009, 08:34 PM
Well Horus was first, but Im pretty sure the rest were found in order of their Legion, ie: Dark Angels were the 1st Legion, so Jonson was found 1st after Horus, and so on...........
Highly doubtful. Why not make the Luna Wolves the 1st Legion? That simply doesn't make any sense. I think the Legions were already numbered before their primarchs were found, and each primarch was matched with the corresponding legion
Abominable Plague Marine
10-09-2009, 09:05 PM
haha, I dont know, its just something that is stuck in my head, doesnt mean its right. Horus was a child (infant?) when found by the Emperor, which is probably why he wasnt leading his Legion from day 1.
Im pretty sure the answer is in one of my Index Astartes books, I'll have a look when I get home.
eldargal
10-09-2009, 11:59 PM
We don't actually know the order of recovery for all of them. Legion foundation order is irrelevent, unfortunately
All we know for sure is:
1: Horus
7: Rogal Dorn (also the Legion number, but this is the only case of them matching that we know of)
20: Alpharius.
We know some, like Lion el'Jonson and Magnus, were found early. We know the relative time of a few others, for example Perturabo was found before Roboute Guilliman and Angron.
Abominable Plague Marine
10-10-2009, 04:42 AM
Well, I coudnt find anything definative (not with 10min or looking anyway).
Jonson was the first after Horus, Dark Angels 1st Legion.
7: Rogal Dorn (also the Legion number, but this is the only case of them matching that we know of)
20: Alpharius.
.......Alpha Legion is the 20th Legion.
We know the relative time of a few others, for example Perturabo was found before Roboute Guilliman and Angron.
Which also fits with the legion numbers, Iron Warriors 4th Legion, Ultramarines 13th Legion, World Eaters 12th Legion.
We also know that the Emperor and Horus fought back to back during the Great Crusade and it may be for that reason that the Luna Wolves weren't formed till 15th Legion, and that the Emperor had already headed back to earth before the Alpha Legion was formed.
Just seems to me that all the pieces fit.
eldargal
10-10-2009, 05:11 AM
But the Emperor's Children are legion III, but Fulgrim wasn't found until 160 years before the Horus Heresy began, but Roboute Guilliman (XIII) had been fighting for the Emperor for two hundred years before the Heresy. So I still maintain the legion numbers are not reliable.
It is even possible that Perturabo was first after Horus, despite being IV, Kharn mentions the envy with which the legions with the Iron Warriors greeted his joining with his legion, potentially implying that they hadn't seen it before.
Horus was raised with the Emperor since childhood, I find it inconceivable that it would take him sixteen legions to get around to making one for Horus in those circumstances, especially since the Legions were raised while the primarchs were still missing.
I thought Alpha Legion was 18, forgot about the unknown primarchs, silly me.:o
In the end all we know is Horus was found first, Dorn seventh and Alpharius twentieth and last.
Well, I coudnt find anything definative (not with 10min or looking anyway).
Jonson was the first after Horus, Dark Angels 1st Legion.
.......Alpha Legion is the 20th Legion.
Which also fits with the legion numbers, Iron Warriors 4th Legion, Ultramarines 13th Legion, World Eaters 12th Legion.
We also know that the Emperor and Horus fought back to back during the Great Crusade and it may be for that reason that the Luna Wolves weren't formed till 15th Legion, and that the Emperor had already headed back to earth before the Alpha Legion was formed.
Just seems to me that all the pieces fit.
Abominable Plague Marine
10-10-2009, 05:42 AM
So I still maintain the legion numbers are not reliable. I agree, but its the best we have got (well, Ive got). The other thing we are up against is fragmentry information over that period (200+ years of the Great Crusade) plus several editions and countless books.
Fantomex
10-10-2009, 07:03 AM
Shame the Black Library forums are dow whilst they re-do the site, there was an immensely huge thread on there listing every bit of fluff, all collated and analysed to work out the order they were found..
From memory though:
Horus first.
Jaghatai Khan before Lion El'Jonson.
Some more found, then comes Magnus the Red.
Lorgar afterwards, as he had forseen the Emperor and Magnus The Red arriving.
Alpharius last.
Damn, wish I could find that list!
Abominable Plague Marine
10-10-2009, 07:33 AM
Yeah, if you find it, post it up.
gwensdad
10-10-2009, 08:43 AM
This is sounding more and more like those logic puzzles in puzzle magazines. (or is that GW's intention!?)
:D
imperialsavant
10-10-2009, 04:37 PM
:D Gee I thought this would have been somewhere in the fluff from way back.
Seems like it was never really spelt out. Would be interesting to know as it could have some bearing on alliances/friendships between Primachs.
DuskRaider
10-10-2009, 06:32 PM
I can tell you that the Legions numbers definitely don't inidicate the order the Primarchs were found. In fact, the Legions were Legions before ANY of the Primarchs were re-discovered. Dark Angels/ First Legion were just that... The first Legion made with Primarch genetics. And it went from there. However, it's also true that Horus was the first found as well. The Emperor actually found Horus whilst he was still a child, and thus Horus grew up in his father's image, his first, and in terms of parenting, only son to be raised by The Emperor.
One more thing... Alpharius WAS the last Primarch to be found, and aside from a short meeting, had virtually no contact with his father. Instead, Horus was more of a "father figure" to Alpharius-Omegon. It just so happens Alpha Legion is also the last of the First Founding Legions.
I know that in the short story "After De'shea," Kharn talks about when the war dogs (later named the World Eaters) found Angaron. he lists some of the Legions that have already found their Primarchs. I don't have it in front of me but Im sure Peterbo and obvioulsy Horus had been found.... Can someone look?
Duke
rkiviman
10-14-2009, 02:58 AM
Horus was found first,because he was closest to Terra. They found the other primarch's as the legions move out on the great crusade. The info given seems that each legion had the DNA of its primarch and so far there is nothin on how each legion was numbered. When found each was in control of their respective planets or taking control?
Ka Faraq Gatri
10-15-2009, 09:51 AM
I know that in the short story "After De'shea," Kharn talks about when the war dogs (later named the World Eaters) found Angaron. he lists some of the Legions that have already found their Primarchs. I don't have it in front of me but Im sure Peterbo and obvioulsy Horus had been found.... Can someone look?
Duke
The Salamanders and Iron Warriors are mentioned as having been reunited, so Vulkan and Perturabo. Perturabo is referred to as "one of the first we found".
EDIT: Kharn is talking about the War Hounds, Iron Warriors and Ultramarines travelling together when Perturabo was located, and makes no mention of Guilliman, so it's safe to assume that Perturabo was found before Guilliman.
So based on that we know.
1. Horus
2. Peturbo?
3. Vulkan?
4. Angaron?
....
20. Alpharius
What about the reading from the Angels books? is there any mention at the end of the first book as to other primarchs who were already found? Again, can someone look?
Duke
gwensdad
10-15-2009, 10:09 AM
What about the reading from the Angels books? is there any mention at the end of the first book as to other primarchs who were already found? Again, can someone look?
Duke
I'm starting that soon, when I'm done with Fulgrim. If I don't get distracted (like those orks I'm supposed to have done by next weekend) I'll post something.
Cool, thanks gwensdad, It just has been so long since I read that book that I have forgotten.
Duke
rkiviman
10-18-2009, 01:59 AM
In the novels (so far) it mentions only that Rogal Dorn ( Horus Rising) was 7th found,in several of the other novels Horus is always mentioned being the 1st found and the foremost among the Primarch's. His legion was the 16th. Listed in the Lexicanum and after looking again at the novels the most important thing mentioned about the Primarch's wasn't their numerical order at being found, but the intense rivalries between them. Alpharius is the last(20th) found. Those are the only ones that I've found to be listed numerically. The rest of the Primarch's were on their worlds from a few years to as many as 6o. Magnus the Red was with the Emperor when he found Lorgar.Most of the time it was the Emperor sensing the Primarch's and then making himself known to them and they swore fealty to him. Exceptions to this were that Vulkan, Ferrus and Leman Russ challenged the Emperor to contests. Angron was the only Primarch who refused to go with him. He had to be kidnapped and then given his legion.
gwensdad
10-21-2009, 09:13 PM
Cool, thanks gwensdad, It just has been so long since I read that book that I have forgotten.
Duke
Finished Descent of Angels tonight (and really didn't like it until the last 3rd of the book). Nothing flat out stated but it seems implied that Jaghatai Khan was found before The Lion, but not definite.
Finished Descent of Angels tonight (and really didn't like it until the last 3rd of the book). Nothing flat out stated but it seems implied that Jaghatai Khan was found before The Lion, but not definite.
so in that case we have...
1. Horus
2. Peturbo?
3. Vulkan?
4. Angaron?
....
X. Khan
Y. Lion El
....
20. Alpharius
(X and Y designate that one was found before the other, but have an unkown numerical posistion.)
Not a bad list so far. Has anyone read the first three horus heresy books recently? Is there anything in there about Sanguinius and when he was found?
The list is coming along, but I think it will be hard to continue without a lot of assumptions.
Duke
rkiviman
10-22-2009, 10:50 PM
The only definite one's listed in order are Horus, Rogal Dorn and Alpharius. The other's were found when the Emperor "sensed" them or something had been heard of a being that was extraordinary. One primarch was found by another(Horus) and then the Emperor was informed.In a few of the discoveries a Primarch was with the Emperor and that is mentioned. Other than three listed there seems so far no mention of a particular order of Primarch's as they were found.
Baron Spikey
12-05-2009, 02:25 PM
Well according to the appropriate Index Astartes article Roboute Guilliman was with the Emperor when they found Konrad Curze, so thats another link in the puzzle.
Artein
12-05-2009, 07:11 PM
Night Haunter was studying under Fulgrim, so we may safely assume that the Phoenician was already around for some time.
So then to update the (Totally not correct) list we have
1. Horus
2.Peterbo?
3. Vulkan?
4. Angaron?
5. Rogal Dorn?
...
A. Fulgrim
B. Night Haunter
...
H. guilliman
I. Conrad
...
X Khan
y Lion El
...
20. Alpharius
Who are we missing?
When was Rogal Dorn supposed to be found rkiviman?
DUKE
eagleboy7259
12-09-2009, 08:37 PM
Wasn't Leman Russ found after Lion El'Johnson, not really conclusive evidence but in the Lion and the Wolf in C: DA it says that Russ was frusterated because he could never reach the level of victories claimed by either Horus or the Lion... So I always assumed that Russ and Johnson were found relatively early if they made up the #2 & #3 positions in most accomplished Primarches...
you still need Russ, Sanguinus, Ferrus Manus, Mortarion, Magnus the Red, Lorgar, and Corax
The Emperor was with Magnus when they discovered Lorgar
hope that helps
Baron Spikey
12-09-2009, 09:38 PM
Oh and Ferrus Manus was discovered before Fulgrim, Ferrus was at Terra already working the Forges when Fulgrim came to earth.
rkiviman
12-26-2009, 12:39 AM
Rogal Dorn was on the planet Inwit in the system of the same name. He was raised by a man who he came to call "Grandfather". Eventually Dorn came to rule this ice hive planet. "Grandfather" died and 40 years later the Great Crusade came with the Emperor in command. Dorn greeted him on the flagship Phalanx and the two knew each other and Dorn was given command of the Fist's. It says he was the 7th Primarch found.
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