Death Guard/ Epidemius List

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

So, this is a LEGAL Chaos Marine list - 2 FOC over 2K, 1 Allies detachment per FOC... This could be BROKEN! But there must be flaws somewhere...

UPDATE Played Vs Dark Angels with this list and literally OWNED them. The Tally of Nurgle is quick to rise and then a lot of my units become VERY tough and VERY hard hitting. Admittedly, the bikes were not as good as I thought they'd be as I committed them too early, plus with no FNP they and the terminators can suffer...but not much!

Thoughts?

Death Guard and Friends

Typhus, Herald of Nurgle – 230 points
Terminators x 5 (Marks of Nurgle, VOTLW, Reaper Autocannon, 2xPower Fist, Gift of Mutation (Asp Ch) – 251 points

4 x Plague Marines (10 Marines, Flamer and Melta, VOTLW, PW and Gift of Mutation (Asp Ch), Rhino w/Dirge) – 845 points

2 x Helbrute w/Lascannon and Missile Launcher – 270 points

Chaos Lord on Bike – Mark Nurgle, Blight Grenades, Black Mace, VOTLW – 155 points

Chaos Bikers x 10 – Melta x 2, Mark of Nurgle, VOTLW, PW+GofM (Asp Ch) – 315 points

Land Raider w/Dirge Caster – 235points

ALLIES

Ku’Gath the Plague Father – 300 points

Epidemius -110 points

2 x Plague Bearers x10 – 300 points

3011 Points

[Ulthwé Guardian]

I played a Crusade game with Raven Guard with Lamenter allies and we got completely massacred, I think we called it a day after round 5 or 6, I don't think my Raven destroyed any units. I then watched a 12 man Death Company unit charge a unit of Plague Marines, after 3 or more rounds of combat the Death Company were wiped out without scoring a single kill due to 3+ Feel No Pain rule.

Personally I hope this rule gets reviewed, I do like the idea Epidemius and his Tally ability but something needs to be toned down somewhere. :-S

I would also watch out, your army list has no flyers or flyer defence.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

That is very true. I was thinking about ditching the Helbrutes for a Heldrake and some extras. I think I could probably trim the Bike Squadron down a bit, or split them into two units. I have Oblits and Forgefiends on the way, might consider and Aegis Defence Line with anti air, the other option is a Daemon Prince. I'm not sold on Havocs as to have them with Flakk Missiles is very pricey. However, I'm not too worried right now because my opponents thus far don't have fliers, and after this weekend I'll be out of the game until at least New Year (second child on the way).

That's heartening to hear about the Death Company though! I reckon I'll toast my opponent on Saturday! I reckon that the new Daemon Codex will say the Tally only affects friendly models from the Daemon Codex, and/or it'll bump the FNP to 4+, not 3+.

[WickedGood]

You have to assasinate epidemius in large games. You need to have a unit that can go after him and drop him quickly. Str 10 eliminates his FNP.

Also remember that the tally benefits do not occur until the beginning of his turn. So if this turn he kills 15 models and the tally was at 5 he does not get the bonuses for 20 until the start of his next turn.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Doesn't Eternal Warrior negate the fact of Instant Death, thereby allowing his FNP save? If he's immune to Instant Death and can therefore not suffer it, surely his Feel No Pain works because the attack does NOT cause Instant Death to him?

[plawolf]

EW just stops an ID wound from taking off all his remaining wounds, it does not stop an ID hit being ID. All that is required to negate FNP is an ID wound. Whether that wound actually removes 1 or 10 wounds from a model is immaterial to FNP.

[Ulthwé Guardian]

With the new Warhammer 40,000 FAQ V1.0 (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2590005a_40K_RULEBOOK_v1a.pdf) clearly states


Q: If a model has the Eternal Warrior and Feel No Pain special
rules, can it still make Feel No Pain rolls against Wounds that
inflict Instant Death (Eternal Warrior states that the model is
immune to the effects of Instant Death, after all)? (p35)
A: No.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

With the new Warhammer 40,000 FAQ V1.0 (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2590005a_40K_RULEBOOK_v1a.pdf) clearly states

Oh well. It's still a totally NAILS build thus far. Hell, I know something will come along and slap it silly, but right now I have been enjoying dishing out some SERIOUS hurt with this combo. I tabled 3k of Wolves on Saturday, and he had squeezed in 7 Razorbacks and 100 Infantry...

[Ulthwé Guardian]

Long term wise I'd be careful. An army based around a technicality like this can easily get re-written by GW, it's something I'd be mindful of. It happened to me with the transfer from 'Craftworld Eldar' codex to the current 4th edition codex.

[Daemonette666]

Obliterators, even those with the mark of Nurgle can be brought down by Strength 10 weapons and they lose all their remaining wounds.

I have found that Havocs are not something to be sniffed at. Although they can only have a max of 10 in the squad, they can still be quite survivable. If you take 2 medium size squads, then you have 2 target units fro the opponent to deal with, and they can have a decent mix of weapons allowing you to take the odd flakk missile launcher to back up an aegis Defence line with quad cannon. I tend to avoid Hell Brutes, as they have been taken down in the first round of shooting most games I field them (even with cover saves).

Are the 4 squads of 10 plague marines or CSM with the mark of Nurgle? Plague Marines last longer have the extra attack poisoned weapons, FNP and defence grenades. I know I would take a squad or 2 of these backed up by the Nurgle CSM who I would give heavy weapons like autocannon to.

The bikes are cool, but I have found they get owned once the enemy uses big guns like plasma cannons to target them. I am now using them as backup troops and flankers rather than a screen to spearhead my forces.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

I know what you mean about the Bikers - there is a LOT of plasma around right now (the Plasma Syphon in the GK book doesn't look so stupid now) and my Bikes took a pasting there.

Yes, they are Plague Marines - I would actually likely use more of them rather than less, because they were utterly awesome against Wolves - no charge bonus for them meant they struggled to get through the Death Guard's foulest, and with a full Tally active, they butchered the attackers.

I'm actually selling my Helbrutes right now, they are so average now it hurts and I can think of better units to spend money on and look pretty. Havocs do look attractive, perhaps they will be required for anti-air. I am liking my Forgefiends backed by Warpsmith behind a defence line idea though.

I'm thinking Zombie Blobs too, to tie up enemy units. As the game progresses, they become tougher and tougher. Or even plain Mark of Nurgle Cultists - a full Tally gives them AP1 weapons!

I am fairly sure that GW WILL nerf the Epidemius ability, but I'm wondering how much. They have already FAQ'd the Daemon Codex, even recently, and nothing has been changed. I can see perhaps they will change things so FNP is improved to 4+ rather than 3+, and maybe AP3 rather than ignoring Armour entirely, but frankly it makes the Death Guard VERY fluffy, and besides the opponent needs to find ways of taking Epidemius out rather than nerfing his abilities to not allow the combo. Right now, I'm enjoying 40K a LOT, because it's others working out how to beat ME rather than the other way around for a change!

[Tynskel]

3000 points, eh? I guess I'll take a Knight Squadron Formation (Lancers), a Warhound Megabolter and Turbolaser, and have points for a Stormraven, Death Co with mixed weapons, DC Furioso, and Astorath.

Good Luck!