Isn't it time rap buggered off?

[Mr Mystery]

Just watched Ghostbusters 2. And it has a predominantly hip hop soundtrack.

And the sound hasn't changed much. That makes it at least 23 years of the same drivel, just with added lack of respect to women and penis measuring. Why is the appeal of that cack so enduring???

[MaltonNecromancer]

You're really going here? Really?

So there's a genre of music you don't like, and you can quote a few examples that are unpleasant/demeaning to groups of people/violent, so that means it should go?

Right, I'm going to assume you're not trolling, and reply as honestly as I can.

I'm going to take this moment to remind you that you like GW, which, like rap, has


the same drivel,

Black Library books


just with added lack of respect to women

Matt Ward's treatment of Sisters of Battle, let alone the lack of female models.


and penis measuring

"WAAC players" ring any bells?

Do I think BL should stop churning out books? No. People like them. I don't, but others do. Do I think GW's treatment of women is appalling? Yes. Am I going to stop playing 40K? No. I'm just going to be impotently annoyed about it. Do I like WAAC players? No. But a lot of people love to be WAAC, and that's fair enough - it's a valid playstyle, how ever annoying it may be to those of us who don't like to WAAC.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't especially like gangster rap, or a lot of hip hop (which hasn't engaged me since the days of Chuck D and Public Enemy). But I challenge you to dismiss the integrity of this song:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1IG1SrJsyU

It's a true story, it's meaningful, and it's rap.

Likewise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLUX0y4EptA

Meaningful - it's about the abuse of power, and it's rap.

Similarly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8GvLKTsTuI

Angry political protest music - and it's the only truly political protest music I've heard in the UK in a long damn time. And, again, it's rap.

These are three rap songs of great integrity and artistic style that I can think of off the top of my head. If pushed, I could give many more. Most everything Flobots or Plan B has done for a start. You don't like them? Fine. YMMV, after all.

I'm going to suggest that your comments here betray nothing but your lack of familiarity with a genuinely fascinating art form. Which is due, I assume, to your exposure to nothing but the most obvious versions of it - the misogynist nonsense that the public devours like the lowest common denominators they are. However, to assume that all rap is woman-hating, penis-compensation is a grotesque logical fallacy - it's like assuming that just because you've seen a blackbird outside of a window means all birds are black.

[Mr Mystery]

It's drivel. Can't play? Can't sing? Then just drone into the mic, and call it rap! And remember, no matter how terrible, the skinny white boys out to upset mummy and daddy will lap it up!

[MaltonNecromancer]

Like metal? Because that really is drivel. Can't play? Can't sing? Then just drone into the mic, and call it metal! And remember, no matter how terrible, the skinny white boys out to upset mummy and daddy will lap it up!

You seem to be what you hate, Mystery.

(And just to clarify: big fan of metal actually. I'm doing this whole "ironic" thing here.)

[ElectricPaladin]

It's drivel. Can't play? Can't sing? Then just drone into the mic, and call it rap! And remember, no matter how terrible, the skinny white boys out to upset mummy and daddy will lap it up!

I've got to agree. You don't like it. Big deal. I don't see where you get to come off telling people that it's absolutely bad. Have you got issues to work out? Did people tell you Tolkein and Assimov were absolutely bad when you were in high school, and now you need to find some other group to cr@p on? Grow the hell up, man.

I'm sorry if I'm coming off a little strong, but there are two things about this post that p*ss me off.

First of all, you're a geek. You've got at least one hobby that is nigh-universally mocked and reviled. You really ought to know better. Has your experience taught you nothing? Have you no compassion? No sense of relativism?

And secondly, the racism inherent in this is staggering. It's just so easy to make fun of rap in Europe and North America. It's kicking a man when he's down. No one's demanding that you have to like it, but for God's sake, just leave it alone. People talk about rap in a way that they don't talk about anything else. No one goes after, I don't know, yodeling or Appalachian throat-singing, with the same viciousness with which they attack rap.

As the Necromancer already wrote, there's plenty of rap that's uplifting, with lyrics that talk about hope and change, or express entirely valid rage and pain. There's plenty of other stuff in every culture that's just as debased as rap is supposed to be.

I think rap is fine where it is - really, isn't it time you buggered off? Go spend some time off the Internet and think about what you've done. We'll still be here when you get back.

[Mr Mystery]

Any racism is purely perceived.

When the stock of the genre is basically a **** measuring contest, it ceases to have artistic value.

As for metal, yup vast vast majority is drivel. And just like rap, the best stuff comes from it's early days. Ditto punk, another love of mine.

[Psychosplodge]

Like metal? Because that really is drivel. Can't play? Can't sing? Then just drone into the mic, and call it metal! And remember, no matter how terrible, the skinny white boys out to upset mummy and daddy will lap it up!

You seem to be what you hate, Mystery.

(And just to clarify: big fan of metal actually. I'm doing this whole "ironic" thing here.)
Good Job that last lines there :D

The thing I hat about Rap more than the lyrics or lack of imo talent, is the fact they'll happily churn it out all day among the chart drivel on the radio(bleeping or muting bits) but it's nigh on impossible to find a radio station playing any form of metal except in the early hours of the morning.

No more than that, the fact people I know who listen to rap ask me when I'm going to grow up and go on real holidays instead of festivals.

[Mr Mystery]

I appreciate everything from competent to exceptional. Rap just seems to be utterly lacking. Why write about stuff that matters, when you just talk about your money?

Sure some might have actual substance. Shame it's buried under a deluge of absolute ****e.

[wittdooley]

You need to listen to good rap then. There are plenty rappers out there rapping about political issues, social inequality, and are great storytellers. I'll give you a list to start:

Grieves
Immortal Technique
Atmosphere
Mos Def
Childish Gambino
KRS-One
Cymarshall Law
Common

And that's just off the top of my head. Common Bond? None of them are "mainstream" save for perhaps Mos Def. Please don't get it twisted and think the crap you hear on the radio as a geeky white guy is at all representative of the genre. "Smart" rap often has much more to say than any other genre of music BECAUSE its all about the message and less about the melody.

[MaltonNecromancer]

I appreciate everything from competent to exceptional. Rap just seems to be utterly lacking. Why write about stuff that matters, when you just talk about your money?

Sure some might have actual substance. Shame it's buried under a deluge of absolute ****e.

And here your trollish Straw Man argument is evident for all to see.


I appreciate everything from competent to exceptional.

Translation: "I'm going to act like I'm some kind of musical aesthete, to better make it sound like my opinion is balanced and reasoned, rather than entirely subjective."


Rap just seems to be utterly lacking.

Translation: "I don't care for rap much, and I'm not interested in learning because that would take effort, and all I really want is to have people agree with me without trying. So I'm going to base my arguments on what I heard IN A FILM FROM 1989."

Seriously: you're quoting the music from a mainstream Hollywood film that's over twenty years old as though it's remotely relevant to the music of today? It wasn't relevant then!


Why write about stuff that matters, when you just talk about your money?

Translation: "I am going to deliberately ignore all examples you offer that run counter to my Straw Man argument, because if I actually stop and pay attention to them, I may have to agree that my argument is nothing but puffery."


Sure some might have actual substance. Shame it's buried under a deluge of absolute ****e.

Translation: Rather than educate myself about the art form, its styles, subgenres, appreciate the truly brilliant heights it can achieve, and intelligently discuss the actual problems it has, so we can have an intelligent, adult discussion, what I'm going do instead is to go and insult everyone who does like it, then point to only the worst examples and say: 'THIS IS WHAT ALL RAP IS LIKE! ALL OF IT! YOU CANNOT ARGUE WITH MY SUPERIOR BRAIN MEATS! I KNOW BECAUSE OF MY LEARNINGZ'. I will then do nothing but repeat the same claptrap when the flames to pour in."

In short, you've got nothing to say, and frankly, you're saying it too loudly.

[wittdooley]

Have to agree. Your viewpoint on the genre is borne completely of ignorance and subjective distaste for the genre. I promise folks that appreciate hip hop probably dislike many of the artists you've heard on the radio; the biggest difference is that they've heard the good stuff and have a basis for judgement.

[Deadlift]

I grew up on the beastie boys, de la soul, tone loc, public enemy, NWA, house of pain, Run DMC, Eric B and Rakim, Suger Hill Gang and Grandmaster Flash to name but a few. The music was always great, brought a smile to my face and I still listen to their albums all the time. It was a very sad day for me when Adam MCA Yauch died. The Beasties boys did music that was fun, experimental and different but it was still hip hop and rap. I defy anyone to not start smiling when they listen to "Sabotage" or "Intergalactic"
Ok some hip hop / rap artists wrote about things I didn't really relate to as a white boy living in rural England, but god help me it was interesting. Don't get me wrong I love rock music just as much, and Deadmau5 is always on the iPod, but your view on rap music is so narrow and misguided. Experiment a little and try something new instead of missing out on some truly great music. If you can sit still whilst listening to "jump around" by House of Pain then you have no soul :)

@ Malton, I bought a Flobots album a few years back on the strength of a single release. Handlebars I think it's called. It's a fantastic song.
I love the way the song evolves as it progresses. From riding a bike to a holocaust in 3 minutes. It's got powerful lyrics.

[MaltonNecromancer]

@deadlift: Yup, Flobots are amazing, and "Handlebars" is a remarkable song. Also, in addition to being a blisteringly good song, Beastie Boys' "Sabotage" also has one of the funniest music videos ever.

[Deadlift]

@deadlift: Yup, Flobots are amazing, and "Handlebars" is a remarkable song. Also, in addition to being a blisteringly good song, Beastie Boys' "Sabotage" also has one of the funniest music videos ever.

The cop 80s style video is epic, the wigs and moustaches they have on are hilarious. My only critique is that it's too short a song, but that's what repeat is for I guess.

[lobster-overlord]

WHile we're at it, how 'bout we get rid of snot nosed bubble gum pop, twang infected country and boring old classical...

ow wait... I can just change the radio station.

HOw bout you do the same?

JOhn M>

[ragnarcissist]

if they get rid of gangster rap, what will i ride around blasting while driving thru my suburban neighborhoods?!?!?!?!?!?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Oh wow. This thread is filled to the brim with bads.

If you cannot appreciate a certain style of music then don't listen to it, if you try to silence those people that do like a style of music then you remove their freedom to express themselves, which is quite frankly wrong. As a guy who has played music for a large proportion of his life (and has qualifications in it!), you have to learn to appreciate each song or band or style on a one-by-one basis.

This thread is super closed.

P.S. I like Hip Hop as a genre... (Linkin Park are one of my favourite bands!)
I'm even starting to appreciate Dubstep as a genre! SUE ME.