Chaos Warlord Traits

[Lord Castellan]

So for the specific Warlord traits for named characters, are those abilities they always count as having or just when they are the warlord?

For instance, if I take a Sorcerer and Kharn as my HQs, I can still choose for the Sorcerer to be my Warlord correct? And if I choose the Sorcerer and roll for his on whichever table, does Kharn still count as having his trait as well?

[jamesdean13]

No as you can only have 1 warlord

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Their Warlord Trait is only active if they're the Warlord. The only reason they have a preset Trait is so that they don't get uncharacteristic combinations (like Kharn getting Master of Deception).

[dreadnoughtguy]

I can't find anything in the chaos dex that has a limit are you pulling the limitation from the brb? can you post the revelent page number so people can look up where you see this. thanks.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

It's only when they're the Warlord. If your Sorcerer is the Warlord in that example, then you don't use Kharn's trait.

[inquisitorsog]

Only Abaddon is required to be the warlord if he's present. He has a special rule indicating such. As far saying Kharn wouldn't get it, well, there's no place I know of where it says "you don't get a specified trait if you are not warlord". There is merely p110 of BRB that says that some special characters will have a specified trait instead of rolling.

I would interpret that as "the specified trait is used when you would otherwise roll for a trait, if you wouldn't roll for a trait, you don't get the specified trait" (combined with the fact that it's still presented as a WARLORD trait, not a Character-Could-Be-A-Warlord-So-Always-Gets-It-Even-When-Not trait). But, I know there's going to be someone who argues against it. However, that would mean granting you TWO traits if you take a special character as subordinate whilst granting you only ONE when he's warlord and the sorcerer is subordinate. Doesn't pass the smell test, that's for sure.

[Denzark]

Another ambiguous GW rule methinks. Kharn comes with all his options, the Warlord trait is in his army list. Unless there is something saying 'special character x doesn't use a personal warlord trait if they are not your army's warlord', even a BRB ruling saying 'you only roll a warlord trait for your warlord' would not instantly and specifically deny Kharn from using his personal trait.

[inquisitorsog]

It's not a "personal trait". It says, in all caps, WARLORD TRAIT in his write up. It says Warlord Trait in the list entry.
If it's not a trait applicable only when he's warlord, why call it a warlord trait? Why not just call it another special rule for Kharn?
Or do you mean to say that all special characters always have a warlord trait, just some roll for it?

[Denzark]

Yes it says in caps 'WARLORD TRAIT'. Where does it say anywhere it can't be used if Kharn (or insert other special character) is not the Warlord? It is part of the points cost, there is no different cost if he is your only character or not? I am not being clear - I can't see anything that specifies this is NOT an enduring ability that just happens to be used in lieu of a rolled warlord trait if Kharn is your warlord.

[inquisitorsog]

So, in other words, you believe you are penalized for taking Kharn, Typhus, or Ahriman as your warlord?

Because that's the implication of what you just said.

Given : 2 HQ slots, one Typhus, one Generic Sorcerer, both LD10.
1) I nominate Typhus as warlord. Sorcerer does not generate a warlord trait. I have one Warlord Trait for my army.
2) I nominate Sorcerer as warlord. Sorcerer generates warlord trait, and under your argument, I keep Typhus's warlord trait as well.

When the special character is warlord then I lose a trait under your interpretation. When the generic character is warlord, I then gain one.

[Nabterayl]

Denzark, the cite you're looking for doesn't exist in black and white, but consider:

The Chaos codex offers a Warlord Traits table, but at no point tells you when or how to use it. For that, we have to refer to the rulebook. As the rulebook says, "Special characters roll for Warlord traits as normal, unless their profile specifically notes that they have a fixed Warlord trait" (p 110). The placement and structure of the "unless" clause denotes that it modifies the prior clause only, so we can see that special characters with fixed Warlord traits always roll the same number when rolling for Warlord traits - but we can also see that fixed Warlord traits are only replacements for rolling.

The question then becomes when any character can roll for Warlord traits, and as page 111 indicates, a character can roll for Warlord traits only when actually nominated as Warlord.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Only Warlords (designated by you) get to have a Warlord Trait. There's only one Warlord, only one Trait. If you choose not to have Kharn as your Warlord, but to use him in the army, you can't use his Trait, hes not the Warlord. Non-Warlords don't have them.

If it was something you could use all the time, it would be a Special Rule. As it is, if they're your Warlord, you get to use their Trait. If not, not.

This is a really simple issue. One of those things that writers don't think need to be spelled out (because it's perfectly logical and unambiguous) until it makes contact with The Internets, I guess.

[WillyRapier]

I would agree with the cap'n...warlord traits are warlord traits, so only a warlord can have them.

At the risk of sounding like i'm picking on anyone in particular (because i'm not, i just see this in a lot of people...and most of them not on the net, whcih is the real shame) this is one of those times where people *want* to see a loophole in a rule that hasn't been specifically written (in this case "only warlords have warlord traits" is not written, but implied by their name) so that they can bend the rules. I wonder sometimes whether they actually think before they try and argue against a point that's quite clear already.

[dreadnoughtguy]

I just couldn't find where is said you only have one warlord and only one warlord trait. can you post the revelent pages so people can easily find them. thanks.

[Nabterayl]

You're looking for page 111, "When choosing your army, you must nominate one model to be your Warlord." That tells you you only get one. It doesn't have to be a special character, just "the HQ choice character with the highest Leadership," and you get to pick if there's a tie.

Having chosen your warlord, you know from page 111 that "you need choose which table to roll on at the start of the game." There's no authorization to ever roll twice, so that's how you know you only ever get one warlord trait. You also know from page 110 that "Special characters roll for Warlord traits as normal, unless their profiles secifically notes that they have a fixed Warlord trait."

You then look at a Chaos special character like Huron and see that he has something called a "Warlord Trait" listed. Recall that nothing in the Chaos codex actually says what a warlord trait is, or when it comes into effect. The only book that does that is the BRB, which tells you that if Huron is your warlord, he rolls for one warlord trait, unless he has a warlord trait listed in his profile, in which case he uses that one instead.

If Huron is not your warlord, his warlord trait does nothing. You can think of this as being because a warlord trait only comes into play when an SC is a warlord, but that's inaccurate (though it gets you to the right result). Technically, what's going on is that if Huron is not your warlord, he has a special rule that no rulebook ever tells him he can use - as if he's going, "Hey, Dark Gods of Rules, when can I use this shiny thing? Anybody? It's really cool, just give me permission and I'll bust it out ... hello? <crickets>."

[ash23]

So, in other words, you believe you are penalized for taking Kharn, Typhus, or Ahriman as your warlord?

Because that's the implication of what you just said.

Given : 2 HQ slots, one Typhus, one Generic Sorcerer, both LD10.
1) I nominate Typhus as warlord. Sorcerer does not generate a warlord trait. I have one Warlord Trait for my army.
2) I nominate Sorcerer as warlord. Sorcerer generates warlord trait, and under your argument, I keep Typhus's warlord trait as well.

When the special character is warlord then I lose a trait under your interpretation. When the generic character is warlord, I then gain one.

The rules have been explained better than me but inquisitorsog states it plainly, why wouldn't you do as suggested? The reason you wouldn't,
is because you can't. I don't know wether this is people just not quite understanding or trying to powergame, i don't know anyone who would stand for it.

[jamesdean13]

I just couldn't find where is said you only have one warlord and only one warlord trait. can you post the revelent pages so people can easily find them. thanks.


Choose a Warlord. Singular.

[dreadnoughtguy]

You're looking for page 111, "When choosing your army, you must nominate one model to be your Warlord." That tells you you only get one. It doesn't have to be a special character, just "the HQ choice character with the highest Leadership," and you get to pick if there's a tie.

Having chosen your warlord, you know from page 111 that "you need choose which table to roll on at the start of the game." There's no authorization to ever roll twice, so that's how you know you only ever get one warlord trait. You also know from page 110 that "Special characters roll for Warlord traits as normal, unless their profiles secifically notes that they have a fixed Warlord trait."

You then look at a Chaos special character like Huron and see that he has something called a "Warlord Trait" listed. Recall that nothing in the Chaos codex actually says what a warlord trait is, or when it comes into effect. The only book that does that is the BRB, which tells you that if Huron is your warlord, he rolls for one warlord trait, unless he has a warlord trait listed in his profile, in which case he uses that one instead.

If Huron is not your warlord, his warlord trait does nothing. You can think of this as being because a warlord trait only comes into play when an SC is a warlord, but that's inaccurate (though it gets you to the right result). Technically, what's going on is that if Huron is not your warlord, he has a special rule that no rulebook ever tells him he can use - as if he's going, "Hey, Dark Gods of Rules, when can I use this shiny thing? Anybody? It's really cool, just give me permission and I'll bust it out ... hello? <crickets>."

Thats what I was looking for. thanks.