Plasma Pistols on Sergeants?

[ElectricPaladin]

Normally, I've avoided plasma pistols on sergeants. It's always seemed like a bad choice: for just a little more killing power at a closer range than I usually want to have the unit get, I risk having my sergeant fall off. Given all the other important uses for that sergeant - carrying a power weapon, fighting in challenges, keeping the unit from running off an objective - it seemed best to focus on keeping him alive.

Now, a lot of this seems less true for assault squads, because they don't score. Additionally, because all their fire power is pistol-range, the additional plasma pistol seems more worthwhile. I'm still worried that the sergeant will kill himself and make the unit more likely to run off the board, but it doesn't seem to matter as much.

So, given that I'm now experimenting with plasma pistols on sergeants, I have a few questions:

1) Do yo agree that it's worth it for assault sergeants?
2) Should I reconsider my stance on plasma pistols for tactical sergeants?
3) While I'm ad it, should I reconsider my stance on plasma pistols for HQ units (librarians, techmarines, etc)?

And why.

Thanks in advance for your input.

[Wolfshade]

1) Yes, since you need to be in assault range to get the use of the damn thing,
2) Depends what the rest of the squad is armed with, if you have meltas in the squad you might want to get that close
3) It is all about use.

If you have a sarge or libby etc tooled up with power weapons/fists then you are going hunting for "big" stuff, the HQ/Elites and want to charge them, in which case snapping off one, or two plasma shots is going to be sometimes useful

[Caitsidhe]

The issue is volume of AP-2 firepower. Only time will tell if we see endless lines of Terminators sweeping forward and overwhelming defenses. Every plasma weapon gives you multiple shots (depending on range) of straight to Invul-Save damage. Thus far, I've seen Terminators going down from standard fire with enough effectiveness that I'm not certain I need the extra shot enough to drop my Melta-Gun configurations.

[Psychosplodge]

Stormbolters for all, cause the look awesome and have range. can still have a holstered pistol and CCW for assault right?

[Wolfshade]

Unless it states that it replaces said pistol...

[Psychosplodge]

ah but they can generally "buy upgrades from the armoury", so they can buy a pistol as well, can they still have a two handed weapom and two single handed weapons?

[ElectricPaladin]

ah but they can generally "buy upgrades from the armoury", so they can buy a pistol as well, can they still have a two handed weapom and two single handed weapons?

The librarian and captain both get storm bolters by "replacing" their boltguns, so no on that one. Didn't check the double/single weapon ruling.

[inquisitorsog]

ah but they can generally "buy upgrades from the armoury", so they can buy a pistol as well, can they still have a two handed weapom and two single handed weapons?

That is old codex phrasing. For newer codices, there is no "armory". As I recall, you were still limited to no more than two weapons under "armory codices".
In current Vanilla Marines, everything is explicit options.

[DarkLink]

ah but they can generally "buy upgrades from the armoury", so they can buy a pistol as well, can they still have a two handed weapom and two single handed weapons?

That was like, five editions ago. Except the new Chaos codex. Pretty much everything is "replace bolt pistol and/or chainsword with..."

[inquisitorsog]

That was like, five editions ago. Except the new Chaos codex. Pretty much everything is "replace bolt pistol and/or chainsword with..."

Even the chaos codex is using the "replace x with y" syntax, they just saved ink by pointing you to a separate page when the options would be the same across multiple list entries.

[Kyban]

That is old codex phrasing. For newer codices, there is no "armory". As I recall, you were still limited to no more than two weapons under "armory codices".
In current Vanilla Marines, everything is explicit options.

I don't remember anything about weapon restrictions...
Shame they got rid of the armories though, I kind of liked them.

[inquisitorsog]

Dammit Kyban, you made me look.
At least in old Witch Hunters (first one that came out of the box) you were limited to two, only one of which could be two handed.

[Psychosplodge]

That was like, five editions ago. Except the new Chaos codex. Pretty much everything is "replace bolt pistol and/or chainsword with..."

I'm pretty sure it survived to 3rd if not 4th...

[Kyban]

I think Tau and Black Templar still use armories.

[ElectricPaladin]

I think Tau and Black Templar still use armories.

The Tau definitely do. I don't know about the Black Templars.

[Aegwymourn]

BT still do as well.

[ElectricPaladin]

So it sounds like it's as I thought - most tac sergeants don't want plasma pistols, unless they're with squad particularly keyed towards close-range firefights - something like melta/multimelta or flamer/multimelta, or whatever. Oddly, you don't want them on a plasmagun/plasmacannon squad.

[Houghten]

Indeed. In a plasmagun / plasma cannon squad, you want your Sergeant to wield dual plasma pistols.

[Anggul]

Indeed. In a plasmagun / plasma cannon squad, you want your Sergeant to wield dual plasma pistols.

I approve of this.

Immensely. Hot damn I'm converting the Dark Vengeance ones to lose the Chainsword for another Plasma Pistol.

[Mr Mystery]

Whilst I think their stock is overrated, they are far from useless.

After all, they are great for a sneaky crack at side or rear armour. But as force wide upgrades? No ta.

[Red Brigade]

Personally, I think that for Marines, plasma pistols aren't a spectacular choice.
For armies like IG, who pay only 10 points, I think it's worth it, because you can take them in such numbers on such cheap squads that it makes it worthwhile to add a little "plasma trap" to them. For Marines, who are fewer in number and more costly, it feels like paying 15 points for maybe one shot before you're in close combat, a shot that could potentially kill your power weapon/ power fist wielding sergeant, doesn't feel like a great deal.
I used to take plasma on all my Chaos Marine sergeants, but after a while, I realized that I had maybe killed two or three models in total with those. Granted, I have rolls so abysmal that it shatters the laws of physics. I just think that the 15 points spent on arming a squad leader with plasma could be better allocated to something else.