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View Full Version : New army: Lizardmen or Dwarfs?



Kieranator K82
10-08-2009, 10:41 PM
Right, down to business. My friend is thinking about getting into Fantasy. He doesn't want to play a fluff-wise 'evil' army (Chaos etc). He happens to be torn between the Lizardmen and Dwarfs. Why them? I don't know.

Here are some reasons he likes them:
- Nordic/Celtic? influences on the Dwarfs
- Mesoamerican style of the Lizardmen
- The fact that Dwarfs are bearded midgets
- The incredibly uniform style of the Lizardmen

I've decided to turn to the BolS community to aid my troubled friend in deciding between the two. Any interesting facts, tactics and opinions, biased or otherwise, would be appreciated.
Cheers :D

Aldramelech
10-09-2009, 03:45 AM
Dwarfs would be the better choice for a newcomer. Lizardmen can be a bit complex to play and paint.

+ you can sit at the table and sing "Gold, gold, gold, gold, gold, gold, gold, gold, gold!" (Not to be confused with the earlier dwarf hit "Gold, gold, gold, gold, gold!")

Kieranator K82
10-10-2009, 12:57 AM
He decided to go with the Dwarfs.

Now the topic of the thread is to change to 'tips for noob Dwarf players.'
This should cover unit, character and wargear selection, tactics, and other useful info.
I honestly cannot help him too much by myself. :o

wittdooley
10-10-2009, 07:31 AM
First, tell him to buy a Skull Pass boxed set. That'll give you a nice start on Dwarf figs for a really reasonable price, plus a mini rulebook.

Second, get more Core choices like Quarrellers and Warriors. The Dwarfs, in my opinion, seem to work best when you field lots of blocks of these Core units flanked by their siege weaponry.

Aldramelech
10-10-2009, 09:06 AM
Id go along with that. Ive never felt the need for the more expensive Elite units in the Dwarf army.

He'll definatley want an Anvil of Doom though.

wittdooley
10-10-2009, 10:22 AM
He'll definatley want an Anvil of Doom though.

Oh, absolutely.

Grabnutz
10-10-2009, 01:45 PM
He could get the Skull Pass set, or just wander over to EM-4 and pick himself up 150 dwarven infantry for under £25... Depends if he ever intends to march his dwarves into a tourney or GW store really.

Personally I'd go for boots on the ground first and round it off with a few specials later.

Kieranator K82
10-10-2009, 08:21 PM
He'll definatley want an Anvil of Doom though.

Funny that. He' s been looking at the character Thorek Ironbrow as a possibility fo his army.

Aldramelech
10-11-2009, 12:24 AM
Its an essential part of any 2000pt+ army.

Skitter Leap
10-14-2009, 04:56 PM
I tend to stay away from the anvil as it leans toward a more static gunline army (Thorek is broken and should be avoided in friendly games). If your friend wants to have fun playing and wants people to have fun playing him then I would keep the guns to a minimum and make sure to include units like ranges, miners and gyro copters. Those units make a dwarf army more dynamic instead of the boring turtle defence.

Lord Azaghul
10-15-2009, 06:28 AM
I tend to stay away from the anvil as it leans toward a more static gunline army (Thorek is broken and should be avoided in friendly games). If your friend wants to have fun playing and wants people to have fun playing him then I would keep the guns to a minimum and make sure to include units like ranges, miners and gyro copters. Those units make a dwarf army more dynamic instead of the boring turtle defence.

Thorek was only broken BEFORE VC/DoC/LM/DE came out - now he gives the dwarf army their only legitamate change of keeping pace.


Honestly lad - if your friend wants to have fun ASAP rather then learning tough long lessions - tell him to go lizards. They aren't top teir, but they can definately compete.

Aldramelech
10-15-2009, 12:20 PM
I tend to stay away from the anvil as it leans toward a more static gunline army (Thorek is broken and should be avoided in friendly games). If your friend wants to have fun playing and wants people to have fun playing him then I would keep the guns to a minimum and make sure to include units like ranges, miners and gyro copters. Those units make a dwarf army more dynamic instead of the boring turtle defence.

Ahhhh what the matter, did the nasty short people shooty wooty your army? lol

Kieranator K82
10-15-2009, 11:13 PM
I'm not completely clear on the draft army itself. I'l try to remember everything:

Lords
- Thorek Ironbrow
Heroes
- Dragon Slayer with Rune of Smiting
- Master Engineer with brace of pistols
Core Units
- 20 Dwarf Warriors with shields and full command
- 20 Thunderers with full command
- 20 Thunderers with full command
Special Units
- 8 Slayers with musician, standard bearer and 1 Giant Slayer
- 2 Bolt Throwers, one with Rune of Penetrating and one with Rune of Fire? (the flaming one)
- 20 Miners with full command, Prospector has Steam Drill

I think we still had another couple of hundred points to spare, and I may have missed something.
Any changes will be done via EDIT.

Aldramelech
10-16-2009, 10:50 AM
Not a fan of Slayers. I would take 1 unit of Thundies and 1 with Xbow. Organ gun is an essential.

jamesTFL
10-16-2009, 12:48 PM
The dwarf anrmy can still be competitive, and you don't even have to play a gunline. a few quick points,

1.) organ guns and stone throwers are your best options: organ guns take out cav and other relatively numerous one wound threats. Stone throwers are amazing at killing monsters, if you are a decent range guesser (and your friend better laern if he wants to play dwarfs) the d6 wounds and double strength if the monter is touched by the middle are the dwarefs best way to threaten monsters
-caveat bolt throwers witht he +1 str rune are good until he learns to guess range
2.) have him put rune of the furnace on any fighty characters, lore of metal is the bane of dwarf characters in foot blocks, if you can make them immune otit you are golden.

3.) encourage him not to make a gunline, they are 1.) very boring to play in the long term 2.) dont let a new player develop the most important skill in warhammer fantasty (movement) and 3.) not fun to play against. The games boil down to "did i roll well enough to hurt you badly enough, before you got into melee".

4.) One unit of Longbeards is great, rerolling panic can save you from one failed roll breaking your invincible dwarven line of infantry.

5.) master run of challenge is amazing, dwarfs aren't fast enough to stop most fast cav or flankers, however if you can force them to charge your big infantry block or flee you can stop their flanks and portect your precious falnks/warmachine crews.

dwarfs are not a bad choice, pretty simple to learn but they can get frustrating, or encourage a player to play a really stationary style that burns people out.

Lord Azaghul
10-19-2009, 07:08 AM
Slayers are awesome but need to be bigger.
Do not waste you time on a DS hero – ever. And if you do don’t but runes on him – he will die before he even stikes.

Also look at longbeards, and hammerers for some better cc units.

ME – 2nd worst possible hero choice. Seriously – take a thane with a GW and Ro Stone

Thunderers – do not take these in units of 20, or with full command. Units of 10 with shields works best.
Quarrellers – one unit of 10 is very useful.

Miners – far too large and expensive. The best unit size is 8-10. No command. What can 5 miners who are charging the turn they show up (anvil) do that 20 can’t…almost nothing.

BT – good, but take an engineer with each one. The BS upgrade is worth it.

Rares: You want one gyro and one organ gun – both are awesome and fantastic

Head over to bugmansbrewery.com They’ll give you crap for taking thorek, but they will help your list immencely.

Fossil Hunter
10-25-2009, 09:26 PM
Right, down to business. My friend is thinking about getting into Fantasy. He doesn't want to play a fluff-wise 'evil' army (Chaos etc). He happens to be torn between the Lizardmen and Dwarfs. Why them? I don't know.

Here are some reasons he likes them:
- Nordic/Celtic? influences on the Dwarfs
- Mesoamerican style of the Lizardmen
- The fact that Dwarfs are bearded midgets
- The incredibly uniform style of the Lizardmen

I've decided to turn to the BolS community to aid my troubled friend in deciding between the two. Any interesting facts, tactics and opinions, biased or otherwise, would be appreciated.
Cheers :D

well here it goes and what my thing is for your points. First off Cannon-wise both are Nuetral so I vote OKEY! However I play Lizards so Im biased and I use them for evil, They are not the master race of the old ones for a reason =)
Nordic/Celt - I give this to Dwarves because its metal...just metal
Mesoamerican - Yep thats the flair of the Lizards, How ever its what you like.
Bearded Midgets - Yeah sooo thats why they has the low speed, seiously if your not going shooty its going to be a tough fight. Espacially against Lizzys with cold blood. (which I disagree with they are warm blooded)
Uniform - Dwarves are more uniform in my oppion. Lizards scrap any form of bone/poision to use as weapon.

just some minor musing.

Vindur
10-27-2009, 04:34 PM
Honestly lad - if your friend wants to have fun ASAP rather then learning tough long lessions - tell him to go lizards. They aren't top teir, but they can definately compete.

Funny you should say that. In the Europen team champs this year tier 1 armies got 2k points, tier 2 got 2250 and tier 3 got 2500.
Tier 1 was deamons warriors and lizards with dark elves in consideration for next year. Lizards are definatly a tier 1 army

Ajjaxx
11-11-2009, 12:02 PM
As a supporter of our short bearded friends, I would recommend the wall known as Iron Breakers. Give them the rune of slowness standard combined with the anvil of doom and a thane or two, you have a Death star! (mind you a small star) The rune of slowness pretty much insures your charge against any other block infantry that decide to charge you (-d6 to charge) and any long range charges aimed at you. Their WS 5 and decent strength and toughness combined with a 2+ armor save in close combat makes them a great (and fluffy) shield wall to use to anchor your lines. I recommend thunderers due to their 3 BS with +1 due to dwarven handguns (plus armor piercing, we have a lot of Warriors of chaos players around here) and long beards are wonderful if you field a squad of warriors to get them. Cannons are great tools when you know how to guess range properly and if not, bolt throwers are always an option. Slayers are a cool unit, I don't recommend them but if you do take them, large units are best. Keep in mind if you have a lot of magic heavy opponents in your area, a rune smith MIGHT be worth swapping thanes for on a regular basis, not quite as good in CC but makes up for it with extra runic gear and an extra dispel dice. Remember, your slow with low initiative, great weapons are not something to slack on and neither are runes of stone =p.

grimnir
04-20-2011, 04:02 PM
I'm not completely clear on the draft army itself. I'l try to remember everything:

Lords
- Thorek Ironbrow
Heroes
- Dragon Slayer with Rune of Smiting
- Master Engineer with brace of pistols
Core Units
- 20 Dwarf Warriors with shields and full command
- 20 Thunderers with full command
- 20 Thunderers with full command
Special Units
- 8 Slayers with musician, standard bearer and 1 Giant Slayer
- 2 Bolt Throwers, one with Rune of Penetrating and one with Rune of Fire? (the flaming one)
- 20 Miners with full command, Prospector has Steam Drill

I think we still had another couple of hundred points to spare, and I may have missed something.
Any changes will be done via EDIT.







I suggest a thane for bsb and some hammerers because there the best value unit in the army