Starting a new army without touching finecast?

[Herzlos]

So I'm toying with getting started with WFB, probably with a Dwarf army, but I despise "finecast" with a passion (I don't think a 20% success rate is acceptable).

Which leads me onto the question, is it possible to get a decent, usable GW army (preferably Dwarves) without having to touch finecast? Or would I be condemned to trawling eBay for old metal figs?

I know I can get figs from plenty of other manufacturers, which I'll do, but I'd also like to be able to participate in official GW events.

[White Tiger88]

So I'm toying with getting started with WFB, probably with a Dwarf army, but I despise "finecast" with a passion (I don't think a 20% success rate is acceptable).

Which leads me onto the question, is it possible to get a decent, usable GW army (preferably Dwarves) without having to touch finecast? Or would I be condemned to trawling eBay for old metal figs?

I know I can get figs from plenty of other manufacturers, which I'll do, but I'd also like to be able to participate in official GW events.

Get Trawling on Ebay i would suggest all the best fantasy models are generally Finecast..........

[eldargal]

Search eBay for metals.

[Psychosplodge]

Have you considered squats? they'll probably never re-do them in finecast...

[White Tiger88]

Have you considered squats? they'll probably never re-do them in finecast...

Ya forgeworld will do em in time...lol

[NurglesRot]

I have purchased a few Dwarf models on Ebay. They are everywhere.

[Calgar33]

I know you prefer Dwarfs but I built an Empire army that can be at least 5,000 points without a single finecast or metal model. I started it before metal and absolutely hated metal so I worked hard to not incorporate it in my armies.

[Tepogue]

With the 2 basic Dwarf Boxed sets you can make a lot of the Dwarf units with only a little need for conversion. Plus with a little work the champions can be converted to heros/lords/rune smiths.

I don't know what the dwarf artilliary pieces are made of, if they are plastic thats fine or convert some of the Empire ones into more Dwarfy(?)/Dwarven versions.

[Mr.Pickelz]

With Dwarves, only some of the characters are finecast, some of the older ones like Ungrim and Garagrim Ironfists, are still metal. Thorek and Thorgrim are finecast, as is the BSB model, however the Runesmiths and the older Lords are still Metal, and so are the slayer heroes/lords.

Unit wise, Bolt Throwers and Grudge Throwers(stone throwers) are Finecast, with the Cannons and Organ Guns being in a plastic kit, the infantry is all metal or plastic, Miners; Gunners; And Warriors are all plastic. The Long-beards, Slayers, Ironbreakers, and Hammerers are all Metal still, however they are now split and sold in 5-man(dwarf) box sets, one with five dudes and one with command. :(

[Wildeybeast]

I know you prefer Dwarfs but I built an Empire army that can be at least 5,000 points without a single finecast or metal model. I started it before metal and absolutely hated metal so I worked hard to not incorporate it in my armies.

This. Apart from a few character models, everything is in plastic. You can build lords/heroes and wizards a plenty using the plastic kits. The only things you will have to look for on ebay are metal warrior priests and engineers (should you want them).

[Herzlos]

Thanks guys.
I might have a look at Empire but I don't really fancy them, partly because they'll be up against Bretonnia 95% of the time. I might just start on a generic 28mm Medieval army to use in their place though, or Templars or something.

I'll keep an eye on ebay and bring & buys for metal characters, so I can at least have enough for small in-store games or GTs though and go mantic for the rest :)

[Wildeybeast]

Why would them being up against Brets a problem?

[Herzlos]

Purely because they seem so similar (from a newbies perspective). That in itself isn't a bad thing, it's more the lack of variety that gets me. I could always do both :)

[eldargal]

They really aren't. Bretonnians are much more about cavalry backed by weak infantry with virtually no shooting (some archers and a trebuchet) whereas with Empire you have strong (well cheap and decent) infantry, good cavalry and good artillery. So you can have shooting lists, cavalry lists, infantry lists then within those you can have a magic focus with a variety of different lores or a warrior priest focus or combat focus. There are many, many ways to customise an empire army in short. Bretonnians have less options really, given their theme and the age of their book.

[White Tiger88]

They really aren't. Bretonnians are much more about cavalry backed by weak infantry with virtually no shooting (some archers and a trebuchet) whereas with Empire you have strong (well cheap and decent) infantry, good cavalry and good artillery. So you can have shooting lists, cavalry lists, infantry lists then within those you can have a magic focus with a variety of different lores or a warrior priest focus or combat focus. There are many, many ways to customise an empire army in short. Bretonnians have less options really, given their theme and the age of their book.

There living vampire counts almost...........we have hordes of junk troops and some insanely powerful cav :D

[Red Brigade]

To be honest, I think the "20% success rate" is an exaggeration- I have about a dozen Finecast models and the worst I can say is one of my Shadowseer's has a bent staff. But, I know the prices are mildly obscene, and coming from an era of metal miniatures where I did anything and everything to avoid metal models, I can relate.
When it comes to Dwarves, there will be some things you can't avoid being in Finecast, like the heroes/lords, the Grudge Thrower, the Gyrocopter. I think a majority of the elite infantry are in metal still, but you have to direct order them. If metal is tolerable, then have at her. If not, I really suggest doing some mass converting.
The plus side with converting is that you usually end up saving a good chunk of money, and it flexes the old creative muscle. I find that putting more work into personalizing your army gives you more appreciation for it too. I converted the living hell out of my Tyranids, and in spite of all my want to down-size my collection, I can't let go of them. Same with my Chaos Marines. My Vampire Counts though? Didn't do anything special with them, couldn't get rid of them fast enough.
The downside, of course, is that everything takes longer to build, so it takes longer to get a Game-ready army. Sometimes you may also face the occasional guy who will ask "What are THESE supposed to be?" or they might say, "These don't seem like GW's official Iron Breakers..." Any jack*** like that probably wouldn't be worth playing against though. I digress...

TL;DR Convert your stuff to save money. It's fun.

[Herzlos]

In your case maybe, but a 20% success rate seems credible based on my direct experience. I've got 6 FC's: Lord Comissiar with some minor damage (pass), Castellan Creed (pass), the anniversary fig (pass), and a Colour Sergeant Kell, for whom I've had 5 replacements sent out, and given up on further replacement and just had the staffer green-stuff it together. That doesn't include the 4 shop ones which I declined on quality.

By passing I mean useable as a figure, and I'm allowing warped and minor hard to see bubbles as the warping can be fixed and the minor bubbles can be hidden. I still wouldn't regard the latter as properly cast, but my expectations are low.

So thats 3 figures out of 12 I'll say were successful, which is a 25% pass rate. Since it took 4 months of back-and-forth before giving up on a properly cast Kell, I'm not willing to spend that much time on more figures unless I absolutely can't avoid it. I also have concerns about durability; the FC figures I have now all seem incredibly fragile.

I've also got a games day fig and Gandalf with cart which seemed alright but haven't been looked at properly yet, so I haven't included them in the success rate. They could change my experienced success rate to between 21% and 36%, which is still pitiful compared to the resin figures I've got from other companies yielding a 100% success rate (out of 5 figures).


I like metal figures though, I've bought hundreds of them without issue :)

[wittdooley]

I've also got a games day fig and Gandalf with cart which seemed alright but haven't been looked at properly yet, so I haven't included them in the success rate. They could change my experienced success rate to between 21% and 36%, which is still pitiful compared to the resin figures I've got from other companies yielding a 100% success rate (out of 5 figures).


I agree that your 20% "success" rate is not the norm, but I'd argue is more of an outlier than anything. I've got a fair number of Finecast (lets say between 30-40 models, probably) and have worked with MANY other resin kits (easily above 100, from FW to McVey to smaller outfits like Infamy) and I've never seen anything approaching those numbers.

Of my Finecast pieces, two that I can think of right now had problems: I had a Jabberscythe that was shortpoured (a piece of his neck was missing) and I had a Thunderwolf Lord that had the accessory sprue all jacked up (detail was a mess). Beyond that, I can't think of a single model I've had more than a standard issue with (bubbles, mould lines, etc) and this is more or less the same with other resin models.

I'm always interested to see what people classify as "unacceptable" for the models in general. For me, I'm not going to waste my time looking for a replacement if it is something I can fix. I wonder what other folks use as that tipping point.

[Herzlos]

What I've regarded as "unacceptable" is missing detail that I can't just fill in with green-stuff. On most of my unacceptable figures, they were missing details on a combination of: masks, fingers, aquillas, and ropes. I'm not going to spend time and effort toiling with a repair above my skill level; I pay GW a pretty hefty premium to provide me with a figure that's manufactured properly. If the price was consistent with the casting standard I'd accept it, but facing a price hike on an already expensive product for a reduced quality is just ridiculous.

Things like a bubble on a plain section like a boot I'll fill in even though I shouldn't have to, purely because it's not worth the hassle, but anything more complicated than that I'll make a bit of a moral stand and complain about it, why should I accept inferior cast products?

When asking for replacements all of the in stock figures were pulled off the shelve and ditched by the staffer immediately for being no good too. They've all been the same figure (Colour Sergeant Kell) so I'm assuming it's just a bad mould setup, but I'm curious as to how many people will have bought them and not noticed or cared about the defects.

I appreciate that "acceptableness" is a very variable thing; my gaming friend is more interested in playing than painting and doesn't care about most bubbles or even bothering to straighten out warped weapons.

[magickbk]

My understanding is that some molds transferred better to finecast than others, and those issues have mostly been corrected at this point. I've only picked up a few finecast pieces, none of which were from the original run, and they've all been fine. Maybe what you encountered was a particular model whose stock is still mostly first-run, since it doesn't sell as quickly.

[Herzlos]

Quite possibly, the last replacement was a new cast from about a month ago. But it's certainly not left a good impression; they should have stuck with metal until the resin figures were up to standard.

[magickbk]

To be fair, I remember there being a bunch of miscast issues back when they switched from lead to pewter. I still have a harlequin somewhere in my bitz box whose leg is gone below the knee. There were also some quality control issues on the metal when they moved production from Glen Burnie to Memphis here in the US. On top of that, since the metal casting was done by hand, each caster was more or less skilled at it. I rarely buy anything metal or finecast without pulling them all off the wall and picking the best.

[Herzlos]

I missed that phase; we went out and bought loads of lead stuff before the price jumped, and then more or less gave up the hobby for about a decade.

The finecast must be done by hand as well if it's spun cast, surely?