When is a flyer zooming for purposes of embark and disembark?

[inquisitorsog]

We had a thread yesterday about special rules and flyers and transports.

This is a question about the general rules.

p80 says a zooming flyer cannot embark/disembark troops.
p81 says a flyer w/hover declares (I assume verbally) its mode "before it moves each Movement Phase".

Does this mean a flyer can disembark/embark troops and then proceed to Zoom?

[Nabterayl]

Yes.

[JMichael]

No you can not. You must choose to Hover instead of Zooming and this is declared at the beginning of your Movement phase whether a flyer will be Hover or Zoom (p81 under the HOVER 'TYPE' description). You can't change type as it must declared BEFORE you move.

On p80, as you stated, a Zooming flyer may not embark/disembark models.

[Nabterayl]

That is not true. A flyer declares whether it is Hovering or Zooming at the start of its move, not the start of the Movement phase. You only ever need to spend one turn Hovering to disembark troops. You can:
Zoom on T1, Hover on T2, and disembark passengers T2, in that order, or
Hover on T1, disembark passengers on T2, and Zoom on T2, in that order, but you do not have to
Hover on T1, disembark passenger on T2, and Hover on T2.

[JMichael]

Thanks for the examples and clarification on the 'declare before it moves'.

Although on a side note, a flyer can't hover 1st turn as it must start the game in reserves. I'm sure you know this, but want all readers to be clear too.

[Nabterayl]

Indeed. I meant T1 and T2 generally, as the first and second turns in a sequence - not literally Turn 1 and Turn 2. Thanks for the clarification.

[inquisitorsog]

Thanks for the responses. My initial impressions certainly followed Nabterayl's scenarios as being permitted, but it seems consensus so far is that you couldn't do it in a scenario where you zoomed the turn before.

[Nabterayl]

You can as long as THIS turn you Hover. Remember, though, that you can't interrupt a flyer's move to disembark passengers. You can't Zoom on T1, declare that the flyer will Hover on T2, disembark passengers, and then move the flyer in Hover mode. You CAN Zoom, Hover and remain stationary, and disembark; or Zoom, Hover and move 6" or less, and disembark.

[Tynskel]

wait what?

I am not sure that's right.
You can move, and take on passengers. You can take on passengers and then move. You just cannot move more than 6" when doing either.

The flyer must declare 'hover' before moving. However, the rule does not state that you cannot declare 'hover', disembark, then move. There isn't a 'activation' like 'warmachine'. Granted, you have to finish moving before moving another unit (p.10), but stating 'hovering' is not actually moving a unit (p.81). You declare hover *before* you move, but you have not moved, yet.

[Nabterayl]

Yeah, that's my point. If you Zoomed last turn, you can Hover this turn by declaring "Hover" before you move, and then finishing your move, even if that move is to remain stationary. Then, after you have declared "Hover" for the turn and completed your move, you may (assuming you didn't move too far or are otherwise barred) disembark passengers.

[Kyban]

Thanks for the examples and clarification on the 'declare before it moves'.

Although on a side note, a flyer can't hover 1st turn as it must start the game in reserves. I'm sure you know this, but want all readers to be clear too.

Why can't a flyer enter the board in hover mode? Did I miss something?

EDIT: They can enter in either but must enter from ongoing reserves as zooming.

I don't think you even have to declare you're hovering, just if you move more than 6" that turn you crash. :(

[Nabterayl]

JMichael's point, I think, was that a flyer can't Hover Turn One because there's no way for it to be on the board Turn One. It can certainly Hover when it first enters the board.

[Kyban]

JMichael's point, I think, was that a flyer can't Hover Turn One because there's no way for it to be on the board Turn One. It can certainly Hover when it first enters the board.

Ah, yes that makes more sense. :D

[Tynskel]

no, you are missing my point. You can declare 'hover', but there is no obligation in the rules that states that you have moved yet or not. you could disembark, and move, or move and disembark.

???
You declare hover, place it on the board (up to 6" in from the board edge) then drop guys off.
Or declare 'hover' deep strike, and disembark that way.

[JMichael]

Flyers that enter via Deep Strike cannot disembark per the 6th edition Rulebook FAQ v1.1a

Q: If a Flyer arrives via Deep Strike, can embarked passengers
disembark from it on the same turn it arrives? (p80-)
A: No.

[Tynskel]

well, nevermind that goof, that is more related to 'cruising speed' and disallowed deep striking.

the point I am driving at is that 'declaring' hover is disconnected to 'moving'.

[Nabterayl]

Which is true. The point I'm making is that you cannot (if you Zoomed last turn) declare Hover, disembark, and then move the flyer. While declaring Hover and moving are distinct actions, they can't be decoupled, as you can only declare Hover at the start of the flyer's move.

[JMichael]

Which is true. The point I'm making is that you cannot (if you Zoomed last turn) declare Hover, disembark, and then move the flyer. While declaring Hover and moving are distinct actions, they can't be decoupled, as you can only declare Hover at the start of the flyer's move.

Yup, that's a tricky one to catch. Important to note that as you said, Hover is declared before the Flyer moves. Thus if the unit wanted to disembark first (and the Flyer Zoomed last turn) it couldn't as the flyer is still Zooming until it moves and declares Hover, then the can disembark. But since the now Hovering Flyer moved before the unit disembarked (even if it moved 0") it can move no further.

Just reiterating what you stated previously.

[Tynskel]

no.
You guys are making the association that by declaring 'hover' that you are 'moving' (whether you move the model or not).
The rule does not state that at all.

The rule just states you must declare 'hover' before moving (ie. you cannot move the model and say, oh yeah, it is hovering).

so, I can 'declare hover' then move the rest of my army, then move the flyer.

[DarkLink]

Tynskel's right about that. Declaring that you're hovering is independent of actually moving the flyer, and must take place beforehand. You can declare hovering and move immediately, or you can declare hovering, and come back later to move. Either way, the flyer hovers, then once it is hovering it moves basically as a skimmer.

[Nabterayl]

I can accept that. I think I was remembering the Hover rule saying something like "at the start of its move" or something like that.

[Tynskel]

nah, it states 'before'. :)