Question on Shadow Skys Grey Knights FAQ

[Scootare]

The FAQ states

Page 37 – Stormraven Gunships, Shadow Skies.
Change the first sentence to read “If the Stormraven has
moved more than 6", passengers can still disembark, but they
must do so as follows:”
Change the penultimate sentence to read: “If any of the
models cannot be deployed the unit is destroyed”.’

So clearly I can disembark a unit out of a storm raven if it moves more than 6.
Am I to therefore imply I can disembark if moving flat out/zooming?
(Understanding that unit is destroyed if I cant place all models...)

What about the assault rules? I assume moving more than 6" I cannot assault even If I can disembark correct?

Flying about with troops in the bellly of a ship makes me all sorts of uptight :)

[Nabterayl]

It's still disembarking, do you can only do it in the Movement phase. No more disembarking after Flat Out. However, you CAN still disembark view SS after Zooming in the Movement phase. No assaulting after disembarking any more than before, as you're still bound by the Deep Strike limitations.

[Tynskel]

The flyer needs to be in hover mode to be able to assault. Even then, you still cannot assault after deep strike.

[Scootare]

Im remote here and cant look at rule book.

To be crystal clear how far can a Stormraven move and dump troops given the rule set with shadow skies.
(Obviously can only assault if moving 6" that is clear...)

[Nabterayl]

The flyer needs to be in hover mode to be able to assault.

Working remotely here. What's the relevant quote that leads you to that conclusion?

[Scootare]

I am of the understanding that you cant assault out of a Storm Raven unless you move 6"....therefore would be in "Skimmer" mode.

However you can disembark out of a storm raven and not assault moving farther right ?
The question is how far can it go and unload its troops.
Its not clear to me yet.

[inquisitorsog]

Working remotely here. What's the relevant quote that leads you to that conclusion?


Page 80 immediately before the header Zoom, Tank Shock and Ramming. It's kinda hanging at the end of a para, so easy to overlook, but it explicitly disallows (dis)embarking while zooming.

[DarkLink]

Right, which makes Shadow Skies kinda useless. The only times you'd ever want to actually use it, when flying halfway across the board to drop the unit somewhere your opponent doesn't expect them, and you're specifically disallowed from doing it.

[Nabterayl]

EDIT: All right, answered my own question - the BRB doesn't have a Cruising speed prohibition, it has an actual 6" prohibition. That being the case, I think it IS most natural to read SS as referring exclusively to that prohibition, leaving the prohibition against disembarking from a Zooming flyer in place (despite the fact that a Zooming flyer, of course, has moved more than 6"). And so I now agree that Tynskel, DarkLink et al. are correct - SS can be used only when Hovering.

If the argument is that "If the Stormraven has moved more than 6", passengers can still disembark ..." doesn't apply to all cases of a Stormraven moving more than 6" on the grounds that passengers can't disembark from Zooming flyers per the BRB, I don't know that I agree. The FAQ only asks if the transport is a Stormraven and if it has moved more than 6", both of which conditions a Zooming Stormraven meets.

In the case of Hard to Hit we have pretty clear guidance that "Only Snap Shots can hit ZFASFMCs" overrides rules with implications to the contrary. I'm not sure we should on those grounds adopt a canon of construction that ALL BRB rules can be overridden only by explicit mention of the rule or rules to be overridden. The amended rule purports to override a prohibition, or possibly prohibitions, on disembarking from models that have moved over 6". The BRB includes two such prohibitions, one applying to Zooming vehicles and one applying to vehicles that moved at Cruising speed. Do we have any reason to pin the FAQ's override only on the Cruising speed prohibition?

[inquisitorsog]

If the argument is that "If the Stormraven has moved more than 6", passengers can still disembark ..." doesn't apply to all cases of a Stormraven moving more than 6" on the grounds that passengers can't disembark from Zooming flyers per the BRB, I don't know that I agree. The FAQ only asks if the transport is a Stormraven and if it has moved more than 6", both of which conditions a Zooming Stormraven meets.

In the case of Hard to Hit we have pretty clear guidance that "Only Snap Shots can hit ZFASFMCs" overrides rules with implications to the contrary. I'm not sure we should on those grounds adopt a canon of construction that ALL BRB rules can be overridden only by explicit mention of the rule or rules to be overridden. The amended rule purports to override a prohibition, or possibly prohibitions, on disembarking from models that have moved over 6". The BRB includes two such prohibitions, one applying to Zooming vehicles and one applying to vehicles that moved at Cruising speed. Do we have any reason to pin the FAQ's override only on the Cruising speed prohibition?

Pardon my lack of knowledge on every 'dex, but the answer may be in the FAQ indirectly.

What does Skies of Blood do? The below question reference to Locked Velocity which only applies to zooming:
Q: Can units embarked on a Flyer (Transport) make use of any special disembarkation rules for their passengers (such as Skies of Blood or Grav Chute Insertion) if the vehicle has suffered a Crew Shaken/Stunned or Locked Velocity? (p81)
A: Yes.

[Nabterayl]

Uh ... That is an excellent catch, since the two rules are identical except for their names. If you can use <the Storm Raven space parachute rule> with Locked Velocity, which you can only have while Zooming, it follows a fortiori that you can use that same rule while Zooming WITHOUT Locked Velocity.

Good catch, man.

[Scootare]

Thanks for all the feedback I been scratching my head on this.

Vendettas Grav Chutes I understand.
Necrons flyers although OP I understand,

The verbiage around shadow skys just confused the hell out of me.

So...If a GK Moves more then 6 can the guys get out?
I know they cant assault unless the SRGS moves any more than 6.
If not what does the shadow skies verbiage mean in the FAQ?

[Nabterayl]

If a Storm Raven moves more than 6" in the Movrment phase the passengers can still disembark via Shadow Skies, regardless of how it moved - Zooming, Hovering, dragged by some yet-to-be-invented psychic power, whatever. To break down the argument:

SS, as amended, is ambiguous. It could be read to mean that passengers can disembark via SS in defiance of the normal rule that passengers cannot disembark of the transport moved more than 6", though other rules could still prevent disembarkation (e.g., the rule that says passengers cannot disembark from Zooming flyers). It could also be read to mean that passengers of a Storm Raven that moved more than 6" can disembark via Shadow Skies, period, full stop.

Of the two, the first interpretation seems the more natural. However, we can demonstrate that the second interpretation is correct. Skies of Blood is the Blood Angels version of Shadow Skies, and is identical in wording except for the name (Blood Angels, as I'm sure you know, also have Storm Ravens). The BA FAQ says that Skies of Blood still works if a Storm Raven has suffered Locked Velocity, which can only be suffered while Zooming. If you can use Skies of Blood from a Zoomimg SR with LOCKED Velocity, you must also be able to use it from a Zooming Storm Raven with UNlocked Velocity. And if that's true for Skies of Blood, it must also be true for Shadow Skies, which is an identical rule.

Make sense?

[Scootare]

Yep thanks so much guys.

I will be zooming my gunship X the board, dumping out my grand master with his termies and bringing in the Dreadknights from deepstrike to support him on the side counting as scoring units.

I think I finally have a tactic versus some pesky hiding stuff I been seeing from Tau and Crons.
You can pretty much bring stuff in peoples face this way. No Assault but those units are very shooty if kitted out right and can be set up to assault the next turn...