How To Land Raider?

[ElectricPaladin]

I've always thought that the Space Marine land raider is one of the awesomest-looking models out there. I'd love the opportunity to assemble, paint, and play with one. However, I have a lot of questions about how to use it. Well, I just subbed a class in my school, and I've got some money burning a hole in my pocket, and I'm trying to decide what to do with it... start Malifaux, or finally land raider myself?

(Actually, there's an awesome old school Mk1 on eBay...)

There are a few things I know about land raiders. Firstly, I know that the natural inhabitant of land raiders are assault terminators, and probably thunder hammer/storm shield terminators at that. Possibly also a terminator librarian.

Firstly, there's the question of which army a land raider would be best suited to. I play codex marines and Blood Angels. For my Blood Angels, I do already own some terminators (a mixed squad with some talons, some hammers). However, for my Blood Angels, I'm most interested in running a jump pack based infantry army - not to mention that I already own a stormraven should I decide to do fast mech. My codex marines (Blood Ravens) are totally dedicated to mech, with rhinos and a predator, land speeders, and a dreadnought.

Secondly, there's the question of how to use a land raider in a list. That's a lot of points to sink into a single model - how do you build the rest of the list around it?

And finally, which land raider variant do you recommend and why? The standard land raider has lascannons, which are great for anti-tank as the land raider rolls up the field, but it also lacks grenade launchers, which is a bummer. The variants also have weapons that are more likely to be effective at the same range at which the land raider delivers its primary payload - the terminators themselves.

So, what do you think? Educate me in the way of the land raider.

[DWest]

The best use of Land Raiders I've seen comes in one of two forms: the Portable Fortress and the Suicide Bomber.
-Portable Fortress: use the Godhammer (2x T-L Lascannon) Land Raider with a Troop choice inside and plant it in the middle of the field near an objective. 2x T-L Las will tear up most tough enemy threats, and then on last turn, park it sideways over the objective, troops get out the back side and take the point. The idea is you're using the legendary Land Raider toughness to make sure nobody can shift it.
-Suicide Bomber: get a Crusader or maybe Redeemer, put the pintle Multi-melta on, Assault Termies (preferably with buff-er like a Chaplain or Librarian, if possible) inside, and ram it down the enemy's throat at full speed. I call it a "suicide bomber" because the LR will likely die in the process, as it's a very aggressive tactic, but your opponent will probably spend 1-2 turns of full fire into it, letting the rest of your army run free. And, should the enemy fail to kill it before it arrives, then you have a full load of fresh Assault Termies right in the enemy's midst.

Extra-special bonus terror: using Kor'sarro Khan from Codex Marines, you can take a Crusader or Redeemer for a shooting Termie squad as a dedicated trans and then outflank it, which is a world of pain for anything on that same side of the board.

[ElectricPaladin]

Other question: is this an accurate depiction of a Mk1 side by side with a modern land raider?

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b229/kermit72/Land%20Raider/LR_Size_Compare.jpg

[DarkLink]

Read Way of the Water Warrior on Bolter and Chainsword for a great tactica on the use of Land Raiders as mobile fortresses.

[ElectricPaladin]

Read Way of the Water Warrior on Bolter and Chainsword for a great tactica on the use of Land Raiders as mobile fortresses.

Well, I've ordered the old school land raider, and I'm really excited to get it, kit bash it a little, and get it on the table. Any other advice?

[DWest]

A really impressive paintjob? Lot of flat canvas on the sides of that beast, and points will usually make it the centerpiece of your army anyway, may as well purge the unclean in style.

[ElectricPaladin]

A really impressive paintjob? Lot of flat canvas on the sides of that beast, and points will usually make it the centerpiece of your army anyway, may as well purge the unclean in style.

Ok, that's just mean.



Portable Fortress: use the Godhammer (2x T-L Lascannon) Land Raider with a Troop choice inside and plant it in the middle of the field near an objective. 2x T-L Las will tear up most tough enemy threats, and then on last turn, park it sideways over the objective, troops get out the back side and take the point. The idea is you're using the legendary Land Raider toughness to make sure nobody can shift it.


This sounds interesting, and I might have to consider it. It fits the general shooty and mobile theme of my army.



Suicide Bomber: get a Crusader or maybe Redeemer, put the pintle Multi-melta on, Assault Termies (preferably with buff-er like a Chaplain or Librarian, if possible) inside, and ram it down the enemy's throat at full speed. I call it a "suicide bomber" because the LR will likely die in the process, as it's a very aggressive tactic, but your opponent will probably spend 1-2 turns of full fire into it, letting the rest of your army run free. And, should the enemy fail to kill it before it arrives, then you have a full load of fresh Assault Termies right in the enemy's midst.


This looks fun. I don't know how well it will match up with the rest of my shooty and mobile army, but it will certainly be fun. I've already got a spare terminator librarian with a storm shield. All I need now is to win that eBay bid on thunder hammers and storm shields so I can rebuild my spare terminators...



Extra-special bonus terror: using Kor'sarro Khan from Codex Marines, you can take a Crusader or Redeemer for a shooting Termie squad as a dedicated trans and then outflank it, which is a world of pain for anything on that same side of the board.


Ok, that's just mean.

I run my Blood Ravens "semi-fluffy," which means that I don't want to include any special characters who change the style of the army in a way that either a) doesn't match the feel of the Blood Ravens or b) strongly resembles the feel of another army. So, probably I'd feel dirty if I used Kor'sarro Khan in this way - he's the White Scars character! But I'd probably feel ok fielding my librarian as that Ultramarines librarian character, or that Ultramarines super-scout, because they're just generically awesome. Personally, I'm hoping for a Blood Ravens special character or banner (if the rumors are true) in the next codex.

[Aegwymourn]

Personally I think the correct way to use any of the Land Raider choices is dependent on what way you want it to support your army. By itself Land Raiders are never going to win you the game. What they can do is make winning the game much easier. Without knowing what the rest of your army looks/plays like it is to hard to tell you which type will work most effectively.

For example. I run 1-2 Land Raider Crusaders in my Black Templars army. They perform many different roles for me. First my Assault Terminators get to cruise in style, ignoring all that pesky small arms fire (espcially plasma) that normally wreaks havoc on them. If it survives the deployment of the Assault Terminators it is used as a gun platform and blocker to assist the Terminators (I really don't want to get stuck on Guard blobs, 'gaunts, w/e). Finally with the Multi-Melta it can provide transport cracking so my Assault Terminators can get to the gooey insides.

Without those Assault Terminators assisting it actually turns into a 250 point sink that the first melta gun that walks by earns their points back in spades.

[DWest]

I wasn't trying to be mean, I was simply going for things you *can* do with a Land Raider, even if you don't personally do so, someone else might wander through the thread and some day be on the giving or receiving end of a Giant White Crate o' Pain. Either way, good luck to you and hope the beast earns its' keep!

[ElectricPaladin]

Without knowing what the rest of your army looks/plays like it is to hard to tell you which type will work most effectively.

I fully expect to build my army, at least in part, around the land raider. This is less "I want to add a land raider to my force" and more "I really like land raiders and want to learn how to use them."

Regardless, here are my two preliminary lists:

For the direct assault land raider:

HQ
• Terminator Librarian w/Storm Shield

Elites
• 5 Assault Terminators w/Hammers
° Land Raider Redeemer
• 10 Sternguard Veterans, 3 Combi-Meltas, Power Fist Sergeant
° Drop Pod

Troops
• 10 Tactical Marines w/Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon, Power Weapon/Meltabombs Sergeant
° Rhino w/Dozer Blade
• 10 Tactical Marines w/Flamer, Heavy Bolter, Power Weapon/Meltabombs Sergeant
° Rhino w/Dozer Blade

Heavy Support
• Predator w/Dozer Blade, Lascannons

And for the mobile fortress (still haven't read the tactica because of my school's content filter):

HQ
• Terminator Librarian w/Storm Bolter

Elites
• 5 Tactical Terminators, 1 Assault Cannon, 2 Chain Fists
• 10 Sternguard Veterans, 3 Combi-Meltas, Power Fist Sergeant
° Rhino w/Dozer Blade

Troops
• 10 Tactical Marines w/Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon, Power Weapon/Meltabombs Sergeant
° Rhino w/Dozer Blade
• 10 Tactical Marines w/Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon, Power Weapon/Meltabombs Sergeant

Heavy Support
• Land Raider w/Extra Armor
• Predator w/Autocannons, Heavy Bolters

[DarkLink]

I find that Land Raiders work best as a means to inconvenience your opponent, so they need to be flexible. If you need to cross an open field quickly, shove those terminators down your opponent's throat. If your opponent has a death star that you have to deal with, but can't take a charge from Assault Terminators, then use the Land Raider's threat to block his movement. Or you can sit on the backlines and unload, then use the Raider to hide a weakened unit to keep it alive, or hop in and make a last minute dash to jump them out on a far-away objective.

That's why I don't like Redeemers. Redeemers do one thing, and one thing only. Godhammers are the most flexible, and Crusaders are fairly flexible as well, you're just limited to a 24" range so you're forced to be a bit more aggressive.

[ElectricPaladin]

Apropos of almost nothing, I just downloaded the rules for a land raider proteus. Since the land raider I bought is an old mk1, which looks a lot like a Proteus, I now kind of wonder what I could get into if I fielded one of those. It seems like it matches the sneaky, tricksy style of the Blood Ravens, and since I'm planning to use it alongside some creative reserving, I see the utility. Also, the proteus works well for the Moving Fortress strategy, since you're not paying points for the useless Assault Vehicle rule.

It's Forgeworld, so I'd need to use it with patient opponents, but I'm intrigued.

[DarkLink]

The assault vehicle rule is awesome, I don't know what you're talking about.

[Wildcard]

Yeah, assault vehicle rule is most likely the most priced vehicle skill/rule Space marines have..

[ElectricPaladin]

Yeah, assault vehicle rule is most likely the most priced vehicle skill/rule Space marines have..

On a proteus which you're planning to use as an objective-grabbing fortress full of tacs, or outflank with - I dunno - sternguard inside, it's not quite as useful a rule.

[ElectricPaladin]

Let me explain what I mean by proteus.

The land raider proteus is a "40k Approved!" Forgeworld model. It's bsaically a land raider that can hold eight models (so no termies, since it can't even hold a single minimum squad) that only gets twin-linked lascannon sponsons free, though it can be upgraded with heavy bolters or heavy flamers, as well as a variety of other boosts. Most importantly, it comes with the following special rules: Power of the Machine Spirit (duh), Scout, and Explorator Augury Web. The last rule lets you set the proteus in either disruption or relay mode. The former imposes a -1 penalty on your opponent's reserve rolls, while the latter lets you reroll your own reserve rolls - successful or not! Also, infiltrators cannot be placed within 24' of a proteus. It's an Elites choice.

So, you can't put termies in it, and it doesn't have the Assault Vehicle special rule. However, what you can do with it is use the scout rule to redeploy - or even outflank the thing, though that denies you a turn or more of its Augury Web - with something nasty and shooty (like, say, sternguard vets) inside. Alternately, it can hold a scoring unit and play the objective grabbing game.

Here's an approximation of a list I might do with a land raider proteus (1.5k):

HQ
• Librarian

Elites
• 6 Sternguard Vets, 3 Combi-Meltas, Power Fist Sergeant
° Drop Pod w/Locator Beacon
• Techmarine w/Bolt Pistol & Power Weapon, Servo Harness
• Land Raider Proteus w/Ceramite Plating, Dozer Blade, Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters (2 Twin-Linked Lascannons come standard)

Troops
• 10 Tactical Marines, Plasma Gun/Plasma Cannon, Power Fist/Meltabombs Sergeant
° Rhino w/Dozer Blade
• 10 Tactical Marines, Plasma Gun/Plasma Cannon, Power Fist/Meltabombs Sergeant
° Rhino w/Dozer Blade

Fast Attack
• 2 Land Speeder Typhoons

Heavy Support
• TLLC/HB Predator w/Dozer Blade

The proteus and its fairly nasty payload, which includes a techmarine to keep it going and a librarian to unleash psychic hell, can scout redeploy or even outflank, It makes a great objective assaulter. And while it's there, it can And there are many vehicles on the table to keep my opponent from being too willing to focus fire on the proteus. The sternguard have a drop pod just in case you decide you want to put a combat squad tactical marines in the proteus instead to help with scoring.