Eldar civilians

[imperialpower]

I am planning on doing a final mission in a campaighn with my mates that has panned out with my Eldar army been attacked by two other armies so I wanted to put together a last stand for my soon to be extinct craftworld, I want to use some Eldar civilians who have not had time to be supplied with Guardian armour and weaponry as the craftworld comes under siege. So basicly what to use for the desperate defence force anyones more in depth knowledge about Eldar fluff will be appreciated.

[eldargal]

I think it is quite hard to justify the eldar on their craftworld not having time to be equipped with Guardian armour. Between the extreme difficulty in locating a craftworld and the eldar gift for precognition it just strikes me as a real stretch to see them being attacked so fast they can't get the armour and weapons issued. This assumes that eldar guardians do not get to keep their weapons and armour close at hand, if not in their homes. Local mustering points and whatnot.

[DrLove42]

Factor in the size of a craftworld, unless they attacked everywhere at once, most the people would have time to armour up.

It'd be like invading London, and the civilians in Cornwall not getting any time to get ready

[imperialpower]

ah sorry without going into fluffy detail my Eldar craftworld was forced to crashland destroying most of the craft and massively limiting recources and the survivors are trying to bide their time until the wraithbone core regenerates the craftworld so it is not that the defenders don't have time it is that they do not have the resources and bearing in mind throughout this campaighn there have been many battles and missions to locate said craftworld and I thought it would be a fitting end (if I lose of course).

[magickbk]

One would think that most Guardians must maintain their own weapons and armor given that they are supposed to be psychically tuned to the bearer, I thought.

Also, wouldn't even a small Craftworld be at a minimum continent sized? One would think that a crash-landing would obliterate the surface and/or atmosphere of whatever they crashed into.

[Kyban]

One would think that most Guardians must maintain their own weapons and armor given that they are supposed to be psychically tuned to the bearer, I thought.

Also, wouldn't even a small Craftworld be at a minimum continent sized? One would think that a crash-landing would obliterate the surface and/or atmosphere of whatever they crashed into.


Could be a particularly large planet and if the Craftworld were intentionally slowed to control the impact. The crash would still be fairly severe and still decimate the Craftworld since it isn't designed for landing in any way.

What kind of info are yo looking for in regards to the civilians? I don't think all civilians are guardians, it's more like a militia, so are looking for info on regular civilians or unequipped guardians?

[imperialpower]

Yes it was a 'controled' decent and not a piddly sized planet since it would take a lot to destroy an entire world.

@kyban regular civilians is what I was going to go for and I don't mind having to heavily convert models I just need some guidence on a base model and what sort of look/weapons they are supposed to have.

[Kyban]

They tend to wear whatever is "in style", often certain styles of robes and colorful bodysuits with an assortment of jewelry. If you're up to reading the "Path" series there are some good descriptions in there, Path of the Seer probably has the best descriptions. I would imagine they would pick up whatever equipment they can find, shuriken pistols and catapults among the most common.

[imperialpower]

Right thought as much I will give the path of the seer a good read first and maybe just convert some harlequins and warlocks/farseers with a few improvised weapons.

[Poseidal]

A Craftworld in near orbit of a world is likely to mess up the planet's weather system at the very minimum. Crashing into any life-capable planet (the Earth is already a large example of a rocky planet, so they can't get much bigger; larger planets are Gas Giant domain) is pretty much guaranteed destruction for the planetary life, and depending on the velocity could change the planet's orbit.

[imperialpower]

A Craftworld in near orbit of a world is likely to mess up the planet's weather system at the very minimum. Crashing into any life-capable planet (the Earth is already a large example of a rocky planet, so they can't get much bigger; larger planets are Gas Giant domain) is pretty much guaranteed destruction for the planetary life, and depending on the velocity could change the planet's orbit.

Ok first of all fluff of your own army is whatever you make it secondly with our currently very limited knowledge of the universe neither you or I can say what is and is not possible, saying that a planet in the so called 'goldy locks soon' can be no bigger than the earth what do you base that on our own solar system? I hate to tell you this but there is a tad more to the universe than this rock, also like I said I didn't want to get into explaining every detail of the fluff I have created for my craftworld. At no point did I say the planet was fine after the craftworld ditched on it assumeing of course the planet they crashed onto had a rocky surface? At the end of the day I do not want to get into a debate with someone I do not know and am not speaking to face to face but a little fact about are own planet you may want to consider is the crater in mexico which was created by an asteroid and is around 200km wide by 10km deep and is widely believed to have been a probable cause of killing off the dinosaurs and around 1% of all life on earth still lived on after that without any technology to help them, and one last thing to think of who is to say how big each craftworld is surely a lesser craftworld with limited resources to start off with would build a smaller craft.

[Poseidal]

It depends on how big you want your craftworld to be, but the size categories (mass categories actually) rated the small Craftworlds as moon sized, larger ones are more massive than the Earth, so that's just food for thought. You're not impacting the world with a small asteroid, but (with the BFG numbers) something the size of the moon, at least. For the average to large craftworlds, you're in the realms of impacting the Earth with another Earth.

The reason that large rocky planets (what I mean by this is a planet with a solid surface like the Earth, which may have seas; gas giants have obvious problems with the landing part of crashlanding) might be a problem is that the mass of them will mean the gravity could get too great. Humans or Eldar couldn't really function on them. Slightly larger is ok, but remember that that increasing the diameter of a planet will increase the mass much more in comparison.

How big you want to make your Craftworld is up to you, but I'm just providing some things to consider.

[imperialpower]

It depends on how big you want your craftworld to be, but the size categories (mass categories actually) rated the small Craftworlds as moon sized, larger ones are more massive than the Earth, so that's just food for thought. You're not impacting the world with a small asteroid, but (with the BFG numbers) something the size of the moon, at least. For the average to large craftworlds, you're in the realms of impacting the Earth with another Earth.

The reason that large rocky planets (what I mean by this is a planet with a solid surface like the Earth, which may have seas; gas giants have obvious problems with the landing part of crashlanding) might be a problem is that the mass of them will mean the gravity could get too great. Humans or Eldar couldn't really function on them. Slightly larger is ok, but remember that that increasing the diameter of a planet will increase the mass much more in comparison.

How big you want to make your Craftworld is up to you, but I'm just providing some things to consider.

Like I said the topic was not on the fluff behind my craftworld and there is no set size and specs for a craftworld and if there was I have an imagination of my own and don't have to follow what GW says like a good little sheep they provide material to base your army on what you do with said information is up to the collector. I don't need nore want to get into a debate about all the different scenarios and varibales about crashlanding onto a planet so thankyou for your thoughts on the matter but I have already concidered those kind of issues when righting the background to my army.

[magickbk]

After some further consideration on what Eldar might be wearing while not on duty, one would have to assume one of two things, which I based partly off of Jes Goodwin's sketch work in the Gothic and the Eldritch and partly off what little tidbits there are about Eldar society.

1. Robes. Without armor and weapons, Eldar should look very similar to High Elves. Vulcans in Star Trek were also dressed this way when not in some other uniform. Maybe some Lord of the Rings models could be used, like the old Galadriel and Celeborn models. These could represent older or more mature citizens.

2. Cyber-punk. Much of Jes' sketch work in the early days of the Eldar show them as having a very cyber-punk appearance. You could assume this would be 'young' Eldar. You could use extra Wych heads, along with some guardian legs and bodies from something. Maybe jetbike rider torsos, or vyper and falcon pilot torsos. They both have a leather jacket style that would work for this.

And, try not to get too defensive about people critiquing your storyline. Within the context of your story, I'm sure what you have planned makes sense, and the laws of physics don't apply in a sci-fi setting in the 41st millennium anyway. In nothing else, maybe it will help solidify the story for you in terms of considering the appearance of the survivors: i.e. - is there a dust cloud requiring rebreathers, has the sun been blocked out like a nuclear winter requiring heavy coats, etc.

[imperialpower]

@magickbk Thanks for the info that has helped me out a lot and added to the models on my conversion list it should turn out to be a very detailed battle, also that was not me been defensive just trying not to get caught in an online debate where people seem so easily offended and so quick to offend others and as a rule I do not debate anything with anyone I do not know online sorry if that is a defensive stance to take but argueing with someone I don't know is the last thing I need at the moment, no offence to anyone.

[Kurnost]

sounds cool, but I don't like their survival chances..... I'd convert some of the High Elf archer models with shuriken weapons, and just use guardian stats without their armour save/ a lowered save.

[NonComPoop]

I would think that if thier access to modern weaponry were limited by the catastrophy they would be forced to rely on low tech alternatives. Bows, crossbows, swords, spears etc.. Assuming that any bonesingers survived they would be able to pound these types of weapons out at sufficient speed while working to repair the craftworld.

It would be easy to use high elf archers as the basis of the conversions.

[imperialpower]

I was thinking swords and spears with the odd shruiken pistol to keep me from having to make up rules for bows I just need to convert elf models well enough for them to look more 40k than just lotr/fantasy minitures mixed in at the moment I am buying the odd model just to see how well they fit and how well I can convert them while also building the backdrop of a crashed craftworld on a harsh fallout world. (yes only part of the ship will be on the board)

[-Tom-]

Personally I'm a big fan of 'sci fi' being explainable using proper science, so I would agree with comments made by Poseidal, etc, about the effect having to emergency land a craft world would have on the planet in question. However, as you say, you don't want to debate your background fluff, and to be fair, if I got started on that I could fill up pages myself without even really getting round to answering the OP.

IMO, I don't see there being bows and arrows. It sounds plausible, because they're 'lower tech' so must be more easily available. But, bear in mind just how many thousands of years the Eldar have been using anti-grav technologies to propel nano-technologically sharp blades... the concept of a bow and arrow probably wouldn't even occur to them, let alone be easier to make than their standard weaponry. They would also likely be very ineffective with it, because firing a bow is nothing like firing a gun, so if they were trained with shuriken weapons, you'd probably have to consider lowering their BS to shoot with weapons they were unfamiliar with. I think it feasible that there would still be guardians, armed and armoured as normal. Same for aspect warriors, wraithguard, etc.

I think then that the more 'civilian' members of the craft world would be in addition to this, rather than guardians and aspect warriors that hadn't had chance to get dressed in time? There are meant to be plenty of Eldar that walk the "Path of Service", who would be your civilians, and as any other society I would imagine that you'd see a big range of fashions and sub-sects. As magickbk says, robes for some, cyber-punk for the younger generation, etc. I guess your step in deciding what they would look like, would be a little bit of a thought about what roles those civilians have - are they teachers, artists, musicians, lawyers, cooks, builders, technicians, doctors, bin men, plumbers, etc etc. A young eldar sculpture artist, for example, will probably look different to a member of a shrine 'support crew' that keeps the incense topped up.

Maybe also more scouts would have returned to the craft world while it was in need of more defence back home, versus straying far away?

[daboarder]

Personally I'm a big fan of 'sci fi' being explainable using proper science, so I would agree with comments made by Poseidal, etc, about the effect having to emergency land a craft world would have on the planet in question. However, as you say, you don't want to debate your background fluff, and to be fair, if I got started on that I could fill up pages myself without even really getting round to answering the OP.

To be fair, this is 40k, its about as far away from a scientific explanation as possible. lets not go into the analysis of a setting where a large chunk of the galaxy is a literal gateway to Hell, and the only way to get from one side of the galaxy to the other is to go SWIMMING in it.... where the daemons can be real corporeal creatures that want to dance in your skin, where the whole of human society survives by feed a dead guy 1000 people with psychic powers a day, where the manipulate peoples genes to turn them into chemical super warriors, where they shoot stars, melt tanks with microwaves and have virus bombs that can consume all life on a planet within minutes.....I could go on but I'd just be repeating what is in the main rulebook


IMO, I don't see there being bows and arrows. It sounds plausible, because they're 'lower tech' so must be more easily available. But, bear in mind just how many thousands of years the Eldar have been using anti-grav technologies to propel nano-technologically sharp blades... the concept of a bow and arrow probably wouldn't even occur to them, let alone be easier to make than their standard weaponry. They would also likely be very ineffective with it, because firing a bow is nothing like firing a gun, so if they were trained with shuriken weapons, you'd probably have to consider lowering their BS to shoot with weapons they were unfamiliar with. I think it feasible that there would still be guardians, armed and armoured as normal. Same for aspect warriors, wraithguard, etc.

Well the eldar do know about the exodites who use "tech bows" and arrows, I'd argue that an eldar bow is merely a label and that the technology used while primitive to their standard equipment would be far ahead of that used in a stick with string attached between the ends.

I think then that the more 'civilian' members of the craft world would be in addition to this, rather than guardians and aspect warriors that hadn't had chance to get dressed in time? There are meant to be plenty of Eldar that walk the "Path of Service", who would be your civilians, and as any other society I would imagine that you'd see a big range of fashions and sub-sects. As magickbk says, robes for some, cyber-punk for the younger generation, etc. I guess your step in deciding what they would look like, would be a little bit of a thought about what roles those civilians have - are they teachers, artists, musicians, lawyers, cooks, builders, technicians, doctors, bin men, plumbers, etc etc. A young eldar sculpture artist, for example, will probably look different to a member of a shrine 'support crew' that keeps the incense topped up.

I agree, but on the scale of 40k I'd say robes for the majority would be the best way to go and throw in a few central "out there" characters to give the story/unit a central figure, I'd second the use of High elf or glade guard bits

Maybe also more scouts would have returned to the craft world while it was in need of more defence back home, versus straying far away?

words for the word god

[-Tom-]

To be fair, this is 40k, its about as far away from a scientific explanation as possible. lets not go into the analysis of a setting where a large chunk of the galaxy is a literal gateway to Hell, and the only way to get from one side of the galaxy to the other is to go SWIMMING in it.... where the daemons can be real corporeal creatures that want to dance in your skin, where the whole of human society survives by feed a dead guy 1000 people with psychic powers a day, where the manipulate peoples genes to turn them into chemical super warriors, where they shoot stars, melt tanks with microwaves and have virus bombs that can consume all life on a planet within minutes.....I could go on but I'd just be repeating what is in the main rulebook

Yeah, fair enough, I didn't mean that I wanted the whole thing to be factual, just that I personally like it when there is a proper scientific background to scifi - this is just personal taste though, and not suggesting that anyone else's fluff ought to be aiming for that. Perhaps that didn't come across as just personal taste. Bear in mind, in real life we are starting to test prototypes on naval/coastguard ships of lasers designed to melt the engines of speedboats on the run, so melting a tank is just further down that path.

Giving it more thought, if the Eldar have anti-grav weaponry, then they can probably fix the gravitational issues that bringing a craftworld's extra mass onto a planet would give anyway.


Well the eldar do know about the exodites who use "tech bows" and arrows, I'd argue that an eldar bow is merely a label and that the technology used while primitive to their standard equipment would be far ahead of that used in a stick with string attached between the ends.

Again, fair point. I suppose an actual bow and arrow would be pretty much no use against any sort of 40K armour, whereas some sort of high-tech thing that is a 'bit like a bow' may be of some use.