Placing of terrain around an aegis line and quad gun

[sneakyben]

My games club is normally great fun, and still is, but for 1 new aspect...

as a general typical stratagy, the following method is being used to counteract an aegis line and quad gun:

Put large bits of terrain right in front of the gun so it can't see anything...

I know that, at most, there can only be 3 bits of terrain used to do this... but still, it appears that this is a bit of a douche-y move*, but we can't find any restrictions about it in the BRB...

Do we need to be sensible and house-rule this or is there something in the BRB/FAQ that we have missed?

Also, if anyone could suggest any tactics to help get around this, that would be cool too...



*Yes, I am going to build my emplacement in a completely useless position behind a massive rock where they can see nothing, aren't I? :confused: :D

[dannyat2460]

This is exactly what the rules allow now you have to set fortifications 1st then roll a D3 for all 6 areas of the board, you have to remember one thing tho the fortification takes up one of the terain slots so at the most you can only have 2 other things in the same square as the fortification.

terain set up has come a little like a mini game in its own right people playing LOS blocking terain to stop the anti air from getting good shots so its down to you to stop them from doing this.

Ive found the best thing to do is set the gun back from the defence line a little as nothing can be placed within 3" of it alloving for a better angle for the gun also if you get to place terain somewhere near your defence line hopefuly opersit it put a patch of low cover as close as you can to where your oponent would place LOS blocking terain or even better try and use all the LOS blocking terain yourself before your opinent gets to place it.

It can actualy be quite fun setting the terain up but you do have to think about how to best place it for 1 the mission been played and 2 how your army is going to benafit from it the most and finaly 3 how to best use it against your oponent.

[sneakyben]

you have to remember one thing tho the fortification takes up one of the terain slots so at the most you can only have 2 other things in the same square as the fortification.

Is there any chance you have rule book handy and could provide page references where it explicitly says that?
(I haven't seen that explicitly mentioned)



Ive found the best thing to do is set the gun back from the defence line a little as nothing can be placed within 3" of it alloving for a better angle for the gun also if you get to place terain somewhere near your defence line hopefuly opersit it put a patch of low cover as close as you can to where your oponent would place LOS blocking terain or even better try and use all the LOS blocking terain yourself before your opinent gets to place it.

I found the bit where it says fortifications need to be 3" apart from other fortifications... but no ref to fortifications and scenery... Have I misread this?
Again, is there any chance you could provide a page ref?

Also, it says that the sections of the aegis line need to be touching... I assumed the emplacement was treated \part of the aegis-line... Is that not correct?

Thank you for your help with this... I don't want to come across as picky, and I do enjoy the terrain-placement-sub-game in general, I just kind of hoped we may have missed some of the rules :-)

[JMichael]

Setting up terrain is on page 120. On the right side under 'Alternating Terrain' it specifies the # and distance that dannyat2460 mentioned. Also in the upper right under 'Setup Fortifications' it specifies that Fortifications count towards the Terrain Density.

Aegis Defense line (p114) is stated as 'Terrain Type: Battlefield Debris (Defense Lines).

So there you go! Not much you can do to prevent someone from sticking a big mountain infront of your defense line. But setting the gun back is a good idea.

If you get to place terrain first, you can always put a lake or other non-obstructive piece infront of your defense line (or if you get lucky and roll a `1 for that 2x2 area, then no other terrain can be placed there).

We actually don't use the Alternating Terrain rules and prefer the Narrative terrain setup. Perhaps more of a throwback to 5th, but we prefer to setup the terrain then choose sides and then deploy fortifications.

It says the sections must be deployed in an unbroken chain. The gun isn't really a section and indeed the pictures in the Rulebook do not have the Gun Emplacement touching the walls.

[Demonus]

Yup the terrain set up rules are a bunch of bunk.

"Hey where should we set up our defense line sarge?"
"Hmmm how about behind that giant ruin, so no one can see it."
"Um but wont that restrict our line of sight Sarge?"
"Who is the Sargeant here boy?"

[ElectricPaladin]

I dunno...

It actually makes sense to place a defense line where there's a terrain feature on one or two sides. It makes the point easier to guard. As to why that terrain feature blocks LOS to the enemy deployment zone? Clearly they outflanked you and came at you from an unexpected angle. Next time, be more canny about how you place the terrain.

I think the idea of the terrain placement system is that the location of the battlefield isn't set. As the two armies maneuver around each other, various factors - including deploying fortifications, who wins the roll-off, and the vagaries of terrain placement - the battlefield is eventually determined, and then the game begins.

[sneakyben]

thanks for all your help with this, it has been really useful, both with the rules and re-framing my opinion of the situation

[inquisitorsog]

Ok, I've been out of the loop while dealing with life and haven't even got a 6ed book yet. But: forts get placed BEFORE natural terrain? Am I reading the thread right?

Are the chaos gods writing the rules? I can see maybe requiring you to declare what zone it goes in first to give your opponent a chance to place terrain to make it hard to place the forts, but to give them the trump card by placing natural terrain second seems absurd. Even in the 41st millennium, natural terrain is usually present before artificial terrain.

[Zeshin]

Ok, I've been out of the loop while dealing with life and haven't even got a 6ed book yet. But: forts get placed BEFORE natural terrain? Am I reading the thread right?

Are the chaos gods writing the rules? I can see maybe requiring you to declare what zone it goes in first to give your opponent a chance to place terrain to make it hard to place the forts, but to give them the trump card by placing natural terrain second seems absurd. Even in the 41st millennium, natural terrain is usually present before artificial terrain.Fortress of redemption or the skyshield would require moving terrain or would be unable to be placed nearly every time if you placed them after all other terrain. I think that is the practical crux of the issue. There was no other way do handle terrain with the existing fortifications.

[inquisitorsog]

Fortress of redemption or the skyshield would require moving terrain or would be unable to be placed nearly every time if you placed them after all other terrain. I think that is the practical crux of the issue. There was no other way do handle terrain with the existing fortifications.
That makes sense to some extent.

But, it just highlights the problem at the same time. If I'm building a permanent or semi-permanent fortress, I'm DEFINITELY not going to put it where firing lines are not clear. Something like the fortress of redemption should operate according to different rules than field works.

[Tynskel]

the imperium does not maintain every fortress to the top specs. sometimes one uses a 'fortress of redemption' years after its construction.

[Chris Copeland]

I have a suggestion: mod and make a REALLY tall Quad Gun. Make it 2' tall. It would be an easy modification to make and would counteract the shenanigans! Cheers...

[volrath8754]

So at my local shop were all fairly competitive but like having a good time. As such I haven seen a single person use terrain setup rules. Their is no way u get to move terrain in a tournament so we figured that it wasn't really necessary. We just set up the board to both players agreement or have a third guy do it then roll for mission / deployment then place our fortifications.

[Denzark]

GW's own throne of skulls tourney has terrain already placed. Fortifications on last. If it works for them...

[Chris Copeland]

I still think that my "really tall quad gun" idea is a good solution to douchebaggery... :)

[sludig]

Do it for Alamo Chris