How would you make tactical squads groovy again ?

[Deadlift]

Think about it, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Black Templars, Dark angels and Grey Knights all have groovy armour variations in their boxes. What do the vanilla marine players get in to make their chosen army stand out ? Transfers.

The standard tactical squad really is living up to its vanilla moniker as its now just so bland in comparison to other chapters and what they can do with their kits. I do doubt very much if and when vanilla gets a new dex for 6th anything will change with the current kit, but when they do what would you suggest to GW to liven up the kit a little ?

Personally I was thinking mk8 chest pieces or even just chapter molded pads for the Sergeants. Of course their is options to buy extras from GW like the IH kit, but forget them for the moment. Bog standard tactical marine box, can (and should they ?) be made a bit less bland.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

CHANGE THE LEGS.

That is all. :D

[Cpt Codpiece]

i cant see anything to add to the basic kit, other than full suits of certain armour types,
we have no mk VIII legs in plastc, and they 'should' (Jes G concept art) have semi powerfist style gauntlets, or at least streamlined mk VIII PF, we also do not have a suitable mk VIII head.

no mk V bits other than the nasty chest, that would look cool with the right head and legs TBH.

there is also no mk VI chests in plastic, and the old school backpacks are sorely missed too.

a PH missile launcher would be nice (a plastic one of FW would be great), and a long thin plasma would look ace (2nd ed style).

a segmented combi weapon like the FW one would be great too, as most tact srg would prob use one now the hidden PF is less of an issue.

but actual tactical shoulders would be nice (arrows) as the DA and BA are the only major non codex ast marines that anyone would use tacts with, and they can be done in resin (obv DA only). no sane SW player would buy a squad of tacts for his GH so i didnt include them :)

[Lightcavalier]

I really like the vanilla tactical box. The smooth surfaces give you options to paint instead of shoehorning your iconography. As well, vanilla Tacticals are supposed to be uniform, even across chapters.

What would be neat though is an additional sprue (even just added into the current box) of raised/molded tactical squad symbols (same in the Dev and Assault boxes), making it much easier to paint those emblems.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I'd like to see the "COMBAT SQUAT!" pose made more upright, a slow march is much more intimidating than an army doing aerobic leg-stretches. We have access to plenty of "pure" armour suits, I'd like to see a box which focuses on patchwork, combined suits. I want to see arms which have hallmarks of both Mk3 and 7, or a Mk2 torso with Mk5 cabling. Maybe some windowdressing bits to help blurr the line - say, optional Mk3 raised pauldron edging. That and use the extra space to give some variant bolters, optional bayonets etc.

[fuzzbuket]

CHANGE THE LEGS.

That is all. :D

YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES

did i say yes?

as for varients in armour MK's i reckon if we got 1 full suit of mk5,6 2 suits of 8 and 6 mk 7 suits that would be well cool!

[Daemonette666]

You could have a sub founding chapter which has a theme. Lions helmets & shoulder pads, Egyptian helmets and iconography, Germanic stormtrooper themed units, etc. The tactical squads could have individual squad themes to make them individual. one squad as deutch fall scirm jaeger, another as Luftwaffe, another as SS, and a 4th unit as Panzer Grenadiers. I am doing something like that with my Pre-Heresy 1000 sons army project. Each squad has a different helmet - Anubis, Horus, Apophis, Set, and so on.

[Blackmonkey0]

I'd like to see a couple of extra weapons in there - namely the Astartes Grenade launcher and the Stalker Bolter.

[Psychosplodge]

Stick ten mk6 helmets on the sprue as well.

[Wolfshade]

Give them Plasmas :D

[imperialpower]

It does make it easier to make your own chapter if the models are not plastered in chapter iconography I think there should be at least the option of a more 'standard' marine so you can put your own personal touch on them rather than doing what GW says.

[Wolfshade]

It does make it easier to make your own chapter if the models are not plastered in chapter iconography I think there should be at least the option of a more 'standard' marine so you can put your own personal touch on them rather than doing what GW says.

But, but it's GW, it's the law!

[Psychosplodge]

uh maybe blank chestplates and stick on eagles/wingedskulls/skulls so you can easily have squad uniformity.

[imperialpower]

Yes all should do as GW commands all hail our mighty overlords

[Cap'nSmurfs]

More dynamic posing options (some running legs, for a start), left handed bolters, more little bits and pieces, more variation in the armour types... you can keep what's great about the Tactical box - the ability to customise it endlessly - while also making it a bit more exciting.

[Wildcard]

-How about sculpting those squad markings separately (arrows, X, etc.) so that they could be glued to the shoulder pad if one wanted? The curvy surface could be a bit problematic though..

-Other than that. If the new kit would come, i would like to see uniform armors. To advance the story, or just as said before, to make them look a bit more awesome in contrast to other non-vanilla codex chapters. 9x set of mark 7 and 1x set of mark 8. (or if you can find those already, not familiar with vanilla tact box, then 9x mark 8 and 1x mark 9 that would have to be designed first ofc.)

-Some bits to customise them perhaps

- All the weapon options codex allows you to take

Theres a reason why they are "Vanilla Marines". They should be the most basic and without unfunctional ornamentation / trinkets / etc. That doesn't mean though that they couldn't look good while being so 'stripped'..

And the thing that makes units look cool is in our heads.. And as such, if you are considering using the contents of a new box on the table top as well, and not only on shelf, they have to also act cool in addition of looking cool to be truly considered groovy. That means new fancy rules for them as well.. But as thats not what the OP wants to discuss about, i'll leave it at that :)

[olberon]

all special weapon option would be ace. also a more uniform look on the armor would be nice ooh and i like the indentification markings (which are a piece of cake to make)

[Wolfshade]

all special weapon option would be ace.
+1
I think all boxes should have enough bits in them to make every option available to you.
Possibly then jsut have the ability to buy bodies for the spare arms

[phoenix01]

The a new sergeant sprue should have right and left bolt pistols, right and left plasma pistols, combi-bolters of all three types, twin lightning claws, a relic blade with special arms, right and left powerfists, various right and left power weapons (swords and axes), a melta bomb, and a teleport homer. A new weapons sprue should be made with various bolters (including older types), one of each special weapon, and one of each heavy weapon as well as speciallized backpacks. A new body sprue should have five sets of legs, five torso backs, ten torso fronts (various marks and maybe one or two chapter specific fronts), twenty heads evenly split between helmets and bare heads, ten pairs of shoulder pads, eight pairs of arms, seven backpacks, and various accessories (pouches, grenades, purity seals, etc.).

[Psychosplodge]

Bare heads are ridiculous on any codex chapter.

[Cpt Codpiece]

Bare heads are ridiculous on any codex chapter.

Amen to that :)

i dont think every option possible should be on the kit, as it will hinder sales of specialist units. however i think more wargear options should be represented on the 'standard' sprue.
wrist mounted auspex, more bionics, better firing pose arms like the vanguards, sentry legs.
the old school chainbayonets i would love to see in plastic.

left handed marines did exist...... the emperor sent russ on them...... legions 2 and 11 were south paws LOL not even lorgar could write such sweet irony, the right hand men of the emperor were left handed.

[magickbk]

Kits like the Grey Knights are able to make multiple different unit choices, so I'd say the best thing to do would be to include enough ornamented parts to make them Tactical Marines, Veterans, or Sternguard, and ditch the finecast ones (I love those models, just not their price). As for symbols being able to be glued on to the models, Fantasy has been doing that with Shields for years (High Elf shields). I say include a full sprue of nothing but symbols to glue on. They would even save money by not having to recut the Tactical Sprue.

However, I'm pretty sure they re-cut the Tactical Sprue a few years ago, so I doubt they would make any modifications to that set for another 3-4 years. That could take us to the next C:SM, though.

[Wildcard]

Yeah, Even though its kinda dull to go to the shop and buy 20 similar boxes, its still way more cost efficient than having 5-6 different boxes..

GK strike squad is a good example of it. You can build 3 different squads out from it, and still equip them into the way you want for each different squad.
However, it is worth to note, that while indeed impressive, GK have only 3 special / heavy weapons in there that all 3 squads can use.

To give tacticals equal box it would have to include:
Plasmagun, meltagun, flamer, astartes grenade launcher?, plasma cannon, heavy bolter, multimelta, missile launcher, lascannon plasma pistol atleast. and thats over three times more than GK box has ( 10 ).

AND

Then you would have to include close combat weapons (9x chain sword) + a set of power weapons.

And knowing the GW the price would be 10x GKSS box aswell :P
------------------------------------

So, a solution?

2 different boxes, one for ranged marines and one for close combat oriented.

Ranged Box:
- Tacticals
- Sternguards
- Devastators

Options:
- Bolters
- Ammo magazines ala GKSS, one set for normal marine bolter, and one set of boxed mags for sternguards
- Heavy weapons like this: 2x Weapon one, 1x weapon 2 and 1x weapon 3. Be that or one of each. (To be realistic and not to make the price rocket sky high)
- Special weapons: (this depends on the new rules that i was wishing for); If one special weapon for every 5 tacs, then 5 each, otherwise 1 per 5 in the box
- Plain tacs, specialist (sternguard parts for the bling) and something to identify the devastators (other than different coloured helmet)

Close Combat box
- Assault Marines
- Vanguard Vets

Options:
- Pistols as per option vanilla marine codex
- All the close combat options for the Vanguard Vets
- Bling to differentiate the Vanguards
- Jump Packs


And all the usual parts required to make all of those units, that i either forgot to add or didn't know existed. This way we could have cost effective way to purchase lots of miniatures that complement each other and offer all the possible combinations In Plastic! And we shouln't have to wait for a year or four to get the next possible wave of infantry (or any unit) that we have been forced to convert or prox.

[Cpt Codpiece]

i dont agree with having all of the heavies in the tactical box, at most it should have missile and H bolter.

as buying a dev box for your alternate heavies is not that bad on the pocket given how many guns you actually get.

special weapons.... TBH we get all of them in the tac box as is so this is not an issue. just give us a plastic 2nd ed plasma gun please.

the option of sternguard would indeed be nice, however how many elite squads can you make from a basic troops kit? other than GK (who are pretty much all elites). none except blood brides and true born, even then you will be scavenging bits from other kits in the range. oops forgot immortals/death marks.

i honestly think GW has its boxing structure sorted, and only minor tweaks are needed. more wargear variants and iconography seem to be the main issues with all of the older basic kits.

[Wildcard]

i dont agree with having all of the heavies in the tactical box, at most it should have missile and H bolter.

as buying a dev box for your alternate heavies is not that bad on the pocket given how many guns you actually get.

In case you were replying to my idea, i want it to be clear that in my vision for the future, there would not be the devastator box you mentioned.

Because that would make logistics simpler, and everything way more cost effective

For the "Ranged box" described above:
- Only 1 box art
- Only 1 manual to build the marines in the box
- Your shop always out of that particular box you've been trying to hunt, yet having 2 of the other ranged variants: Worry No More!

Also build costs should be more reasonable, since they would get their investments back from sales volume (rather than "high" price)

And as a maybe a minor point (yet one important for me), updating the sprues would make all of the units look to be from the same decade (so no more uber cool units with creativity allowed by modern tech accompanied by those almost 2d characters or just otherwise crappy and /or silly looking counterparts of old..

*Intended to quote, pressed post -> hence the edit*


i honestly think GW has its boxing structure sorted, and only minor tweaks are needed. more wargear variants and iconography seem to be the main issues with all of the older basic kits.

With 6th edition started and first codex nearly here, it would be a good time for GW to revamp alot more than just White Dwarf. Double / multi plastic kits would be really good way to make improvements accross the board to their model line.

[Cpt Codpiece]

i do agree on most of your vision wildcard, but from a company wanting profits they have the structure of the kits pretty good.

im not sure uber kits would bring in the save revinue stream though, as much of a good idea as they may be.

but i do wholly agree the recutting of older sprues.
just a quick thing thats been bothering me, they say in WD the molds have been remastered for the classic guys (ahriman, abaddon etc).
did they take this chance to scan them digitally and make them more to scale with the current line? seems silly if they missed out on this chance? as the models (the jes goodwin ones anyway) are some of the best models GW has ever made.

[Wildcard]

i do agree on most of your vision wildcard, but from a company wanting profits they have the structure of the kits pretty good.
Um yeah, its pretty good, no arguing about that. I do not know how much in general stuff stays on shelf of the shops (or GWs own warehouse). But as it takes certain amount of resources to design, build, store, transport and shelfspace to create a kit, there are some things to consider:

- First there are sales only to kill the design costs etc, everything that the box itself has costed to the company (salaries of the designers, materials, iterations etc etc..) To do that, the box needs to sell. After certain amount of sold boxes those pre-production costs are killed, and the product itself starts to make a profit (with a margin i am not familiar with). Now, theres only that many devastator boxes that regular player (or even hardcore hobbyist) is gonna buy.

That's why (most likely) 5man devastator squad costs as much as 10man tactical squad. ( 30€ )
5man assault squad: 26€
5man tactical squad: 20€
While Grey Knight Strike Squad box, that can be build into 3 different (troop, fast, heavy) is 26€.

As you can see, 5man GK squad, with really a lot of quality and detail is at a competitive price set. 10man squad over 5man squad for 4€ extra sounds tempting, but as i've stated, what i've after here is the whole revamp of the old box.

Apologies for sidetracking, back to the point: Currently GW needs to think "first we cast 100 of these, then, um, maybe 45 of these, and then 55 of these".. And have a fear of not getting something sold because they calculated the needs for - say devastators - wrong.. With the new (GK) model, they could just spam 200 boxes, and people could make out of them what they wished.. Or more likely in this case that i've been writing before, 100 and 100 boxes (for ranged and close combat boxes respectively)



im not sure uber kits would bring in the save revinue stream though, as much of a good idea as they may be.

If you had the perseverance to read the former example, then that kinda answers it. But to fortify the point: With only one product to worry about, even with multiple sculptors working on it, to have only a one box to sell will kill the production costs far more rapidly. Also, you don't have to worry about storage of multiple different size and theme boxes. (Storaging is one of the most expensive thing there is in any retail chain - generally atleast)

So no need to make that many boxes to storage, just spam the one (or two, but you get the point), and cut your non-direct expenses to make more direct profit..

This line of reasoning could go on and on and on, but the basics are there. And to prove the point, thats why GW has moved more and more to dual / multi unit boxes :D (Tactical boxes are just "so old")


but i do wholly agree the recutting of older sprues.
just a quick thing thats been bothering me, they say in WD the molds have been remastered for the classic guys (ahriman, abaddon etc).

This is true. Many older models have that 2D -syndrome from the time when it was really hard or nearly impossible to make a mold truly 3D and so on.. (or not impossible, just either non-cost effective or lact of sculptor skills)

Njal Stormcaller is one of my favourite examples of this:
Older Njal
2966

And new Njal
2967

The difference is stunning. This kind of facelift should be done to each named HQ at the every release of that particular Codex..

[Cpt Codpiece]

the njal example is exactly what i would like to avoid though.

look at calgar, he was (like njal) in power armour. now he is TDA which i assume is for the save rather than the look.

now i dont mind the TDA calgar, but the njal i think is appaling in TDA and that is down to sculpt failure.
look at tigurius the old one was amazing, yeah he was very flat as thats what the molds were capable of at the time, but the new one is beyond a joke. how could they release that?

now if they were to resulpt the special guys from each codex with the current sculptors they would suck! thats exactly why they are just finecast releases of the old jes goodwin sculpts. or let juan diaz do them all :) (even though his legs are always a little short)

why didnt they take the opportunity to scan the masters in the 3d casting software and make them more to the scale of current plastics, as they are amazing models just too short.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

You said my user 3 times, that means that you just summoned me.

[Cpt Codpiece]

You said my user 3 times, that means that you just summoned me.

yeah, but not in a mirror or reflecting pool, and i like garviel loken will not be part any thane worship :)

Tactical Dreadnaught Armour, for those not in the know ;)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I know it's Tactical Dreadnought Armour, I love doing that though. :p

[Cpt Codpiece]

I know it's Tactical Dreadnought Armour, I love doing that though. :p

i know you do :D

[Thornblood]

These are awesome ideas.

Id re-cut the tac squad from scratch. Bare torsos and shoulder pads with chest eagles/skulls/winged skulls/winged gems, and tactical arrows for the shoulder pads that glue on. Whole squads with the same chest plates as if that is there chosen heraldry as a unit.

I'd keep a few combat squat legs, but a few more upright, another kneeling pose, and a few more heroic poses (one leg on a big rock for instance).

The fluff says that marines are ambidextrous and the bolters have sinister/dexter locking. Id have a couple of left handed marines in there.

A full 'pure' mk 6 suit (the works, head, arms, legs, chest etc) and a ******* mk 6 suit r two (like the dark vengeance ones with the different head crest).

A few different bare heads. I like the mix of armoured heads you get but I wouldn't mind a quarter being more 'pure' mk 7 for the uniformity. (without camaras, skulls, extra pipes and so on). A few bionic arms. A couple of arms holding combat knives.

Id let the sergeant take a full suit of mk VIII armour. High collared and standing tall. Lots of sergeant options including roman style tabard and helmet crest or laurel wreath. Plenty of equipment options (although that's not bad now).

Accessory options- either loads of flaggellant style skulls on short chains to dangle, or aquillas on rope.

Either sort out the back of the shoulderpad on the missile launcher or swap the heavy weapon entirely. Maybe an option to make a heavy bolter/multi melta (arms in similar poses), or if we stick with ML, maybe Lascannon is doable as the other heavy weapon option?

And then, for forgeworld to do add on packs for different chapters for shoulderpad and chestplate chapter iconography, in high detail like they have for terminator shoulderpads.