Is shooting through ruins possible in 6th

[Wildcard]

So, in 5th edition units could only fire into ruins 6" deep (iirc), and not through 2 corners making that area terrain ruin.

However, try as i might, i just cannot find the references for this anymore, not from area terrain rules in general, nor from the ruins section.

So, is it truly possible to shoot through ruins, or multiple pieces of ruins for that matter, if you just can draw line of sight to your target?

Any help and/or reference for pages saying otherwise highly appreciated.

[Nabterayl]

Yes, you can shoot through any amount of cover, as long as you can actually see your target.

[Wildcard]

That is, well, gamechanging :) ... And just to clarify, if i shoot through normal area terrain, enemy behind it gets 5+ cover save, and if i shoot through ruins, enemy gets 4+ cover save?

Or does the model has to actually be in the area terrain / ruins to get the cover save?

[Nabterayl]

Area terrain (which includes the ground floor of a ruin) provides a 5+ cover save to models within the area terrain (page 91). Shooting through area terrain confers no cover save per se.

[Wildcard]

Hmm, but if the area terrain feature itself obscures (25%) of a vehicle, or infantry, does it grant a cover save of some kind, while shooting though the said terrain?


(which includes the ground floor of a ruin)

Also, could you point a page for the reference for this?

[Nabterayl]

Hmm, but if the area terrain feature itself obscures (25%) of a vehicle, or infantry, does it grant a cover save of some kind, while shooting though the said terrain?
Yes, certainly.


Also, could you point a page for the reference for this?
Page 98: "A ruin might be mounted on a base, decorated with rubble, and other debris. In this case, treat the base as area terrain."

[Wildcard]

Oh my.. Theres gonna be some serious arguing about this on our gaming group (mostly cos old habits die hard, and it is for some reason set in stone during 5th that all and every cover is 4+ :) )..

Nabterayl: You've been most helpfull, but more that is cleared, more becomes unclear, so please bear with me, as i try to figure the rules for these ruins out.

Reason why its so "important" thing, is because majority of our terrain pieces are ruins, most multistory ones..


Page 98: "A ruin might be mounted on a base, decorated with rubble, and other debris. In this case, treat the base as area terrain."

For some reason we always thought that to be 4+ cover save area terrain if the ruin was based. However, now that if only the base area (lowest floor / level) is area terrain, does that mean that each floor has only "directional cover", meaning if you can shoot to a unit that is 3 storys up, and has nothing to block them, they do not get the 4+ cover save?

Hope you get what i mean?

[Nabterayl]

Yeah, I follow you. And yes, the actual ruins themselves (along with everything else that isn't area terrain) provide only directional cover. The basic cover rule states, "If, when you come to allocate a Wound, the target model's body (as defined on page 8) is at least 25% obscured from the point of view of at least one firer, Wounds allocated to that model receive a cover save" (page 18). Nothing within the ruins rules state that models receive a cover save for being in ruins - only if the ruins actually get in the way. It is totally possible for a model to be in a multistory ruin and not receive a cover save because he is, for instance, on the third story and being shot from behind (I have a number of ruins that work this way).

Similarly, the base of a ruin (if based) provides only 5+ cover, because it is just area terrain - and there is only one type of area terrain described in the rulebook (though, like all area terrain, you receive +2 to your cover save if you go to ground while within the base of a based ruin).

The key thing to focus on is that in 5th edition, "all ruins [were] area terrain (providing a 4+ cover save) and difficult terrain" (page 82), whereas in 6th edition there simply is no equivalent statement. Ruin bases are area terrain because page 98 says so, and provide a 5+ cover save because page 91 says so (note that page 91 also specifically mentions ruins when discussing area terrain). That the 4+ cover save for a ruin only applies to the three-dimensional aspects of the ruin can be understood from a few factors:
Page 91 specifically mentions ruins as being placed within area terrain, and still says area terrain only confers a 5+ save.
The table on page 18 that lists a 4+ cover for ruins is way before the rules for area terrain, and still discussing the basic rule that a model receives a cover save only if 25% obscured.

[Mr Mystery]

And your all forgetting the most important terrain rule.

Discuss the terrain with your opponent before the game starts and agree.

For instance, my local store has an impressive cities of death board. Outside that subset of rules, just talk about it before table edges are chosen. For instance, got a base mounted ruin with barricades running the perimeter? 4+ all round? Fair enough?

[Wildcard]

And your all forgetting the most important terrain rule.

Discuss the terrain with your opponent before the game starts and agree.

Well, in our group this is the case.. We have some bastions for example as well that sometimes are justsitting there, while on the other games theyll be housing ways to get to the top to act as a battlement.. We do talk these things..

The issue here is that with the new edition, this has been one rule that has major impact on our games, since most of our terrain pieces are ruins.

Playing with "old rules" would be all ok and stuff, but why to move to 6th at all / or adopt just few rules from it..

We have not understood the rules for ruins and area terrain as it clearly seems to be now. Huge difference, since those 9" x 7" and ~7" x 7" ruins are gonna work a whole lot differ now.

And affect the whole way we place them and how they will block los etc etc etc..