Terminator Squads with mixed armour?

[Chris*ta]

I've been pondering doing an army based partly on the spread of Ultramarines 2nd Coy in the 5th edition Codex: Space Marines -- particularly the idea that marines very freely mix armour within squads and within individual suits.

I've also been thinking, since FW started to release alternative Terminator suits, do Terminators do the same thing?

Now, I know that the various patterns aren't compatible, but do you get squads with mainly Indomitus pattern armour, but one or two marines wear Tartaros pattern or Cataphractii (not sure if a pattern or not) armour?

To recap:
Indomitus Pattern
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1000329a_99120101027_BATerminatorSquad_445x319.jp g

Tartaros Pattern
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/AlternativeFW/xlarge/tart14.jpg

Cataphractii
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/FW/uk2012/catafist/catsqd1_3.jpg

Comparison shot
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/AlternativeFW/xlarge/tart15.jpg

So, what do people think of the idea of mixing patterns within one squad? Good idea or bad idea? Would look silly or awesome? Discuss.

[Kirsten]

I don't see why not personally. Not sure how it would look, with power armour it tends to be individual parts mixed and matched, so they still look coherent, the three terminator types are markedly different though, and come in complete suits. Something like a Cataphractii sergeant could work though.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

On the note of Cataphractii being a "pattern", they do have their own unique rules (4+ Inv., but Slow and Purposeful) when used in the Legions list. I doubt anyone would object to their use as modern-day Terminators, though, it's visually clear. Just say the internal bits have been repaired/replaced with leftover Indomitus stuff.

Fluffwise, it they're probably mixed all the time. The background always talks abut how Terminator Armour's so rare, almost never made anymore and usually "new" suits are cobbled together out of leftover parts, but then the model kits come out and they're all the latest model, fresh off the production line (even the Chaos ones, shame they didn't use that opportunity to inject some older looking designs into the setting).

Appearance wise, I'm not sure, they have fairly different silhouettes, might look kinda off? I thinnnk Tartaros and Cataphractii would look okay side by side, but Indomitus' more "hunched" look might interfere.

I'd say go ahead and try it - worst case scenario and they don't look alright together, just run three different squads, each equipped with one type of armor. Can't really lose :P

[Chris*ta]

Fluffwise, it they're probably mixed all the time. The background always talks abut how Terminator Armour's so rare, almost never made anymore and usually "new" suits are cobbled together out of leftover parts, but then the model kits come out and they're all the latest model, fresh off the production line (even the Chaos ones, shame they didn't use that opportunity to inject some older looking designs into the setting).

Well, there are a few differenves between the Chaos and loyalist terminator armour. Chaos has all mk 6 type lower legs, and the gauntlet-type forearms, but largely the same, yes.


I'd say go ahead and try it - worst case scenario and they don't look alright together, just run three different squads, each equipped with one type of armor. Can't really lose :P

The army I'm thinking of would be made up of small elements from a variety of chapters, so, multiple squads from multiple chapters = lots of opportunities for different ways different armour is used.

I'm slightly leery of buying a small pile of FW crack, and then finding I can't use it for what I planned. The army is still a long way off though.

[Chris*ta]

Oh, and thanks for the cataphractii rules. I'd read they had new rules, but didn't know what they were.

I had assumed they were close enough people couldn't really complain about using them as counts-as regular terminators, though ;)

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Yeaaaaah, you're right, making a mixed squad of Forgeworld models isn't something one does without a significant amount of planning.

A fun/cheaper alternative might be to invent&convert your own Mark of Termie armour to run alongside the Indomitus?

[Chris*ta]

Yeaaaaah, you're right, making a mixed squad of Forgeworld models isn't something one does without a significant amount of planning.

A fun/cheaper alternative might be to invent&convert your own Mark of Termie armour to run alongside the Indomitus?

Oh, I certainly plan to kitbash Indomitus terminators using every kit available -- including the Chaos ones -- but I want to keep everything as codex as possible. The idea is that it is a bunch of small groups of Ultramarines successors allied together. So, very codex.

I haven't really decided why. I can't quite imagine a deep, dark secret like the Unforgiven with UMs.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Not sure if it'd be much of a secret; in plenty of pre-heresy pics, the Ultramarines have their own unique Power Armour variant - a unique Termie variant could be something similar to that. Which successors are you thinking of using?

[Chris*ta]

Not sure if it'd be much of a secret; in plenty of pre-heresy pics, the Ultramarines have their own unique Power Armour variant - a unique Termie variant could be something similar to that. Which successors are you thinking of using?

Can you link to a pic?

Oh, and I've got a list of more than a dozen:
Eagle Warriors
Marines Errant
Novamarines
Sons of Guilliman (may have to reverse the colours on the quarters though, just to make them different)
Praetors of Orpheus (mk 8 and helmets with sights)
Metamarines
Omega Marines
Sons of Orar (mk 6 - a tribute to RTB 01)
White Consuls
Black Consuls (these two would most likely be the terminators)
Marines Exemplar
Emperor's Spears
Honoured Sons (based around their symbol in C:SM and a picture in WD!)
Black Wings (I choose to believe they're UM successors)

Basically, anyone white and/or blue, halved or quartered, or with a symbol that features the UM symbol :D

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Wow, that's quite the list, big army planned?

Here're a couple of pics - they're from that giant Horus Heresy artbook released ages back. Since the same style was drawn by several different artists, it was probably at the request of whomever at GW/BL organized it.
http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/2/2c/Tercion_Scout_Squad.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/6/67/Tactical_Squad.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/f/fc/Helixus_Tactical_Squad.jpg

[Chris*ta]

Interesting. And, once more, proof that studded right shoulders are just as canon as left ones.

But the only really unique bit is the helmet. I may have to work out a way to convert/scratchbuild something like that.

Oh, and the cross-shaped cutouts just remind me of Black Templars. Or Grey Knights.

And, yeah, planned to be a big army. Well, maybe big by accident. Just kept choosing chapters I like. But the idea would be that no chapter can be used as an army on its own, so none would have BOTH an HQ AND 2 Troops choices.

The plan on size is that it would be a 'Zen' army. It's one with everything ;) And multiple choices of anything a) I like or b) is common according to the Codex.

[Cpt Codpiece]

it is mentioned in 'know no fear' the name of the suit, but i cant remember off the top of my head what it is LOL but it mentions that only the SMurfs have it.

[magickbk]

Those pictures look mostly like Mk V armor with a variant helmet(by the prevalence of studded sections), one could assume that individual chapters experimented with variant components to add additional protection to what was considered a weaker variant of the armor.

As far as why all those random remnants are fighting together, there is plenty of precedent in 40K for odd formations of marines. Perhaps they were survivors of marine companies that fought a particular campaign on a planet, and they were organized into a crusade of sorts to hunt down the Ork Warlord/Chaos Lord/Daemon Prince/Archon/etc that was responsible for the battle and avenge their Brothers and Chapters' Honor. Maybe Exterminatus was ordered on the planet by the Inquisition, and where it has been known for marines to be not permitted to return to their chapters after witnessing Inquisition methods at their worst, an Inquisitor has turned them into a seperate force that is no longer in contact with their chapters. Also, there have been mentions in the Codex that in particular, the Novamarines, no longer fight as a chapter, but doesn't explain what that means.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Oooo, magickbk's comment reminded me of this; http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ultramarines_Honour_Company#.UGYMYPlERxs

A Company near the Eye of Terror composed entirely of Ultramarines descendants - sounds perfect.

[faolan]

"Mk V" isn't actually it's own mark/style of armour, it's field and chapter/legion mods to Mk IV and earlier suits as a stop-gap measure.

None of those in the pictures were unique "patterns", those just had different bling attached for the purposes of bling.

[magickbk]

"Mk V" isn't actually it's own mark/style of armour, it's field and chapter/legion mods to Mk IV and earlier suits as a stop-gap measure.

It used to be. Way back in the day, the quick explanation given of Heresy armor was that casualties were so high during the heresy that Legions would recruit faster than was normal, and armor could not be repaired/replaced quickly enough. Since they had to equip those recruits, the forges took the unfinished plans for Mk VII and produced a weaker mark of Power Armor. The fluff specified that Mk VI was extremely rare and prized in those days, being the most recent variant.

Then everything I knew got retconned...

[Chris*ta]

Appearance wise, I'm not sure, they have fairly different silhouettes, might look kinda off? I thinnnk Tartaros and Cataphractii would look okay side by side, but Indomitus' more "hunched" look might interfere.

I actually think Indomitus and Tartaros would go together better, and Cataphractii would feel out of place.

The details (e.g. aquila on chest) match up far better between Indomitus and Tartaros, whereas the Cataphractii have details that are far more similar to very early Imperial iconography (think of the arrow/lightning bolts on Mk 1) and/or Chaos terminators.


it is mentioned in 'know no fear' the name of the suit, but i cant remember off the top of my head what it is LOL but it mentions that only the SMurfs have it.

Anyone know what the name is/can look it up?


"Mk V" isn't actually it's own mark/style of armour, it's field and chapter/legion mods to Mk IV and earlier suits as a stop-gap measure.


It used to be.

This.


None of those in the pictures were unique "patterns", those just had different bling attached for the purposes of bling.

Which is only slightly true of all Marine armour. ;)

[Chris*ta]

Oooo, magickbk's comment reminded me of this; http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ultramarines_Honour_Company#.UGYMYPlERxs

A Company near the Eye of Terror composed entirely of Ultramarines descendants - sounds perfect.

Reverend, you may've just won the internet ...

I'd still like to find a good reason why it doesn't include UMs, though. This may require more thought.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Excellent, I've always wanted an internet :D

If you want to cut the Ultras out entirely; it notes that the number of Ultras dwindled following the 'Nids stomping on their homeworld - if you combine that with the recent fluff about them having a giant war with an Iron Warrior-lead chaos force in their system, you could probably fluff it out to "Due to the oncoming Bloodborn attack, all Ultramarines have been recalled from the Honour Company to protect Ultramar."

[Chris*ta]

Excellent, I've always wanted an internet :D

If you want to cut the Ultras out entirely; it notes that the number of Ultras dwindled following the 'Nids stomping on their homeworld - if you combine that with the recent fluff about them having a giant war with an Iron Warrior-lead chaos force in their system, you could probably fluff it out to "Due to the oncoming Bloodborn attack, all Ultramarines have been recalled from the Honour Company to protect Ultramar."

Yeah, I just kinda want something along the lines of 'organised by the UMs, but includes only UM successors'. A bit like whichever of the Unforgiven were specifically set up by the Dark Angels to hunt the Fallen. Cos one more heresy can't hurt, right? ;)

[Chris*ta]

Here're a couple of pics - they're from that giant Horus Heresy artbook released ages back. Since the same style was drawn by several different artists, it was probably at the request of whomever at GW/BL organized it.
http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/2/2c/Tercion_Scout_Squad.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/6/67/Tactical_Squad.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/f/fc/Helixus_Tactical_Squad.jpg

You know, looking at these pictures again, I'm wondering how easy these heads would be to convert from Mk 3/grey Knight helmets. Would have to give it a go at some point.

Oh, and in regards to the army, I was originally picturing it as quite large elements (approximately Company sized) from each Chapter, though the actual modelled and painted guys would be a small(ish) strikeforce made up of parts of this.