Why is Leman Russ/SW the executioners?

[Chris*ta]

I was reading this thread (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?25035-Which-primarch-is-the-best-fighter/) on which Primarch is the best fighter one-on-one and something occurred to me that bothers me about the HH fl...well thought out background ;)

Why exactly is Leman Russ/the Space Wolves purpose/destiny/whatever to act as executioner for other marines? What does this have to do with being a bunch of Vikings in SPAAAACE! ?

It feels to me a little bit like someone came up with the bright idea that each of the Legions should have a purpose, and then they came to Leman Russ and the Space Wolves, had no idea of a relevant purpose for them and went "Well, I think Space Wolves are TEH AWSUMEST MUHREEENZ EVA, so they should logically beat up on other marines.

Thoughts/Comments/Flamebait?

[Wolfshade]

It is an interesting one, and could not have been part of their original purpose. Afterall, the Emperor did not forsee his primarchs rebelling, and therefore there would be no requirement to have an "enforcer" legion. And even if they were then they would be better at it.

[Chris*ta]

It just really sounds to me like someone decided that each Legion should have a purpose.

And then someone (possibly the same person, possibly different) realised that there's no san reason why the Emperor would create a bunch of mead-swilling feast-having Space Vikings, and went ... umm ... they're around to best up on everyone else. Obviously.

It seems like someone got painted into a corner, and then did some lame (and nonsensical) writing to escape :(

[OrksOrksOrks]

They're a Legion set apart from the others by their rough and feral nature, they don't get along with the others much and are utterly loyal to the All Father, like an attack dog, they'll go for the throat of whom ever they're ordered to and not question it. It makes sense in that regard, more so than any other legion they'd be willing to attack another Astartes because they're no complicated by feelings of fellowship with the other Legions, they're a pack unto themselves.

[Chris*ta]

Not sure.

I mean the stuff about the difficulties between Lion'el and LR imply that LR got on at least okay with his other brothers.

It really reminds me of the attitude of Space Wolves ARE THE AWESOMEST MUHREENZ! That seems to be far more prevalent among SW fans than any other chapter.

Maybe I'm a little biased against Space Wolves ...

[Wolfshade]

I think in terms of the archetypes of them I think there are ok reasons for them.
With the way that they were raised and those people who brought them up and those thoughts and traditions certainly would be a way that you can have space vikings. Then that can then push them into different slots, you know like Magnus being a scholar and being brought up in a scholarly world with a thin warp barrier, corax being brought up in a prison doing stealth attacks. But in terms of them having a role like excutioner is strange.
I think ultimtely you are right, the cart was put before the horse. But then again that is historic, after all the hersey came about from the heresey board game becasuse it was cheaper to make red and blue marines than it was to make one marine and xenos and thus the heresey was born and since then we have been trying to back fill to explain why this came about and the BL is doing a fantastic job of making the characters really good and 3D

[Montpup]

Actually I can give you a clear answer for this. Dan abnett. Dan hated the space wolves for reasons for which I wont go into here but I agreed with him (just read the space wolf codex and you'll see what he meant) and he asked the question, why does the emperor have such violent savages? There needed to be a reason for them and why the emperor allows them to counting on. The term executioners is not really correct, at least not in the normal definition of the word, they are the dirty Harry legion, they get all the dirty jobs. They do what no other legion can or will do.

I started playing in second Ed 40k and I have hated the space wolves from the beginning, it wasn't until Dan abnett rewrote them that I feel in love with them, so I still hate space wolves but I love the rout

[Deadlift]

I can see it as making some sense (because they want it to)

As has been said, when creating the Primarchs and legions to be this all powerful galaxy conquering force. I can see the Emperor wanting an insurance policy just in case the legions fell from his path. The Wolves were maybe gene bred to always be faithful to the Emperor 1st and foremost. Where as other legions and Primarchs were bred to be more independent so they could operate more autonomously.

The Viking theme is easily explained by the habitat on fenris.

But to be honest I think Montpup has put the reasoning into far better words than I could :)

[Chris*ta]

I'm fine with the whole Vikings in SPAAAACE thing -- it doesn't need a reason, you just have to accept it on faith, so to speak.

My issue is with the idea that the Emperor created each Primarch/Legion for a specific purpose and, specifically that the Emperor had a specific purpose in mind for LR/SW and that purpose was to take out other Primarchs/Legions if they caused trouble. And more specifically that this has anything to do with being Vikings in SPAAACE.


Actually I can give you a clear answer for this. Dan abnett. Dan hated the space wolves for reasons for which I wont go into here but I agreed with him (just read the space wolf codex and you'll see what he meant) and he asked the question, why does the emperor have such violent savages? There needed to be a reason for them and why the emperor allows them to counting on. The term executioners is not really correct, at least not in the normal definition of the word, they are the dirty Harry legion, they get all the dirty jobs. They do what no other legion can or will do.

I started playing in second Ed 40k and I have hated the space wolves from the beginning, it wasn't until Dan abnett rewrote them that I feel in love with them, so I still hate space wolves but I love the rout

I must say I've disliked the Space Wolves for a similar length of time, but I think more than anything this is the attitude that seems to be prevalent that they're teh BESTEST MUHREENS and also that they're one of the few codexes that you can't paint in your own scheme.

I haven't read any of the Horus Heresy books -- I don't like starting a series that is that many books and still unfinished :D

Oh, and why did Dan Abnett hate Space Wolves? I'm curious now.

Oh, and I am curious in why

[Nathan Flentjar]

It seems that this whole thing about giving the Legions a 'purpose' has come about reasonably recently - the flavour stuff about each Primarch having a certain background that influenced his Legion has been floating around since RT / 2nd Ed, but the whole thing about each Legion having a 'purpose' in the eyes of the Emperor seems to be an 'ad-hoc' addition to the fluff. A pointless one, too.

[Wildcard]

Few points worth of noting in this kind of conversation, that apply to any general military force organisation:

1) Through the ages there has been a force to deal with the ones that wont follow the orders of the general (this could go for a very deep, multi branch example, so i leave it at that). At the modern military (in our dull world, not the awesome 40k), we have Military Police. Each nation with slightly different roles etc, but that is the force to hunt for deserters and capture them. Ofcourse in such a sivilised times they hardly act as executioners for the ones not in line, but thats not the point here - the point is that such a force outside of normal organisation (that still takes part in action at some armies) exists.

2) To have a controlling force to be effective, it needs to have atleast equal measure of force at its use.

So, these in mind. I giggled myself for the idea of planetary police force arresting Angron for example :) Good luck trying to do that with tear gas, batons, and water guns..

And even the imperial guard couldn't handle the legion if it was forced to be put down. Or it would cause so much damage to a sector forces that a whole segmentum could be easily crippled. ..And just how many lasgun shots (on average) you would need to kill over 100k space marines (firing and charging at you..) :D

So, a force that naturally is inwards attuned, stays in their own group and are fiercely loyal to their commander was created. To be out of the influence of others that could need the punishment. Also, a group ferocious and fearless enough to get the job done, and not regret it, just act as ordered..


So, when talking about 'weapons of war', we always do have safeties. Basic safety switches for guns, protocols for target acquisition, multiple launch codes from multiple persons to fire a nuclear weapon.

So, greater the potential of the weapon, greater the safety procedure. And a legion of genetically enhanced super soldiers with wargear and weaponry to destroy entire worlds, is, atleast in my books, rather grand weapon.

[gendoikari87]

Heres my take, the wolves have always been the freest of the marines, They value justice, honor, and the empire. The other marines are mostly there to serve the emperor/bureaucrats. This often pits them against other marines and even the imperial guard at times in defense of the worlds of the imperium's citizens.

[wittdooley]

Gotta be honest. You really need to read Prospero Burns and Thousand Sons before even being allowed to speculate on the Space Wolves. Then youll have the perspective you need.

[The Sovereign]

Heres my take, the wolves have always been the freest of the marines, They value justice, honor, and the empire. The other marines are mostly there to serve the emperor/bureaucrats. This often pits them against other marines and even the imperial guard at times in defense of the worlds of the imperium's citizens.

This guy has it right, and in fact basically repeated what Phil Kelly, Dan Abnett, and GW have officially stated as the proper fluff for the Wolves. They're the most independent, anti-authoritarian chapter, that's why they're always getting crossways with the Inquisition, Administratum, and all manner of Imperial beauracrats. The codex states that while they revere the Emperor, they actually revere Russ more, and they're considered borderline heretics for it (as well as their horrific gene flaw).

[Montpup]

This guy has it right, and in fact basically repeated what Phil Kelly, Dan Abnett, and GW have officially stated as the proper fluff for the Wolves. They're the most independent, anti-authoritarian chapter, that's why they're always getting crossways with the Inquisition, Administratum, and all manner of Imperial beauracrats. The codex states that while they revere the Emperor, they actually revere Russ more, and they're considered borderline heretics for it (as well as their horrific gene flaw).

Actually wrong, space wolves or the rout as they should be called are the most disciplined of all the chapters, that is the whole point of prospero burns, to do what they do they have to be the most restrained, that's why they are sent to do all the dirty jobs and not the world eaters or the death guard who are always willing to kill everyone or the planet because it is the easiest way, the rout are never questioned when they kill an entire planet because if they did it they needed too, where the death guard and world eaters get on trouble all the time for their excessess

Also not many of the legions understand russ and the rout hence the idea that they are wild free berserkers, it's funny that guillman does and has a high respect for russ

[The Sovereign]

Actually wrong

Well... no, I'm not. Actually.:) But you're not either.

What you're saying is another aspect of their fluff, taken from a Black Library book set in the period of the Horus Heresy, and is written from the perspective of a human, mortal remembrancer (sort of like how A Thousand Sons portrayed the Wolves from the perspective of the Thousand Sons Legion). It covers a different aspect of the chapter, and doesn't mutually exclude what I said, which was taken directly from the codex itself, and is therefore to be considered the canon, paramount fluff (i.e. the GW gospel).

[Montpup]

Well... no, I'm not. Actually.:) But you're not either.

What you're saying is another aspect of their fluff, taken from a Black Library book set in the period of the Horus Heresy, and is written from the perspective of a human, mortal remembrancer (sort of like how A Thousand Sons portrayed the Wolves from the perspective of the Thousand Sons Legion). It covers a different aspect of the chapter, and doesn't mutually exclude what I said, which was taken directly from the codex itself, and is therefore to be considered the canon, paramount fluff (i.e. the GW gospel).

You sir are correct, my bad

On subject of the codex, while Phil Kelly and Matt ward my write wonderful rules, their penmanship leaves a lot to be desired,

Though remember all books are canon from codexs to the novels to forge world as it all has to go though Alan merit, so one source is never more official than another, some just have better authors than others :)

[noahwood]

Perhaps they earned that honorific after dealing with the 2nd and 11th Legions and their Primarchs.

[Chris*ta]

Actually wrong, space wolves or the rout as they should be called are the most disciplined of all the chapters, that is the whole point of prospero burns, to do what they do they have to be the most restrained, that's why they are sent to do all the dirty jobs and not the world eaters or the death guard who are always willing to kill everyone or the planet because it is the easiest way, the rout are never questioned when they kill an entire planet because if they did it they needed too, where the death guard and world eaters get on trouble all the time for their excessess

Also not many of the legions understand russ and the rout hence the idea that they are wild free berserkers, it's funny that guillman does and has a high respect for russ

Reminded of why I hate the Space Wolves ...

[wittdooley]

Reminded of why I hate the Space Wolves ...

You hate them?! Noooooooo. We couldn't tell from all of the thinly veiled sarcasm earlier.

[Joe Fixit]

Gotta be honest. You really need to read Prospero Burns and Thousand Sons before even being allowed to speculate on the Space Wolves. Then youll have the perspective you need.

This is a good piece of advice, the wolves really are given much more depth of character in this book and its an enjoyable read. Wolves still have a very competitive codex too, so from that perspective you could also argue that they indeed are the best space marines for the time being.

[Hewhohowls]

I was reading this thread (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?25035-Which-primarch-is-the-best-fighter/) on which Primarch is the best fighter one-on-one and something occurred to me that bothers me about the HH fl...well thought out background ;)

Why exactly is Leman Russ/the Space Wolves purpose/destiny/whatever to act as executioner for other marines? What does this have to do with being a bunch of Vikings in SPAAAACE! ?

It feels to me a little bit like someone came up with the bright idea that each of the Legions should have a purpose, and then they came to Leman Russ and the Space Wolves, had no idea of a relevant purpose for them and went "Well, I think Space Wolves are TEH AWSUMEST MUHREEENZ EVA, so they should logically beat up on other marines.

Thoughts/Comments/Flamebait?

That isn't what being the emporer's executioner means. You don't have to be the best to kill someone. The Thousand sons do a whole load of damage before the sisters show up. and The Luna Wolves were already described several times as the "best" legion.

What the term implies is what Sigismound alludes to. The wolves are crazy. No matter what the the All-father commands they will do. Even if try to do so will definatly cause their death. A pack of wolves are order to watch and kill sanguinous if required. They go and have no disolutions about their odds ok killing a Primarch, and that even if they did manage to kill him a legion would be their to kill them.

If you read prospero burns, they mention that once they deploy any fear, doubt or trepidition does not ride with them. Its pretty apparent that 30K marines are different than 40K marines. (They don't have ATSKNF, in the HH rule set) Think of the hypno-theropy that 40K marines are given to feel no fear, and hvae absolute faith in the All-father. The Rout don't need faith they know that the All-father created with need, and that he unleashes them with purpose. Where Horus, and Logar need to know who they were and what they were for drove him to madness. Russ has absolute certianty. It doesn't matter to Russ who he is, the All-father is certain who Russ is and what he is for that is all Russ and the Rout need to know.

On Russ not caring for his brothers. Its been shown several times that he loved each of the deeply. He even pleaded with Magnus to surrender and let it be bloodless. He pleaded with the All-father to not destroy Logar and his legion. Russ is that older brother who roughs you up when you're younger, but will attack mercilessly anyone who hurts you. Look at the manner at which he treats his brothers captains, and compare it to Horus, Angron, etc. To me Russ out of all 18 Primarchs knows best what it means to be a brotherhood. Brothers fight and might go years without talking or thinking of each other, but it only takes a moment together to rekindle the bond.

[dark messenger]

I have no idea why the Space Wolves were chosen as the "executioner legion" except for perhaps it's to do with their conviction and the way they ruthlessly prosecute their wars.
The whole thing about Primarchs and their Legions having certain roles is fairly recent though - never heard anything about it as a youngster.
Looking at what has been posted here there seems to be a love/hate thing for the Rout. Personally they were the first marines I truly understood and even before the HH books were released I have always thought of them not as berserkers or savages but rather as showing that to the galaxy while being something else. After all many of the most well known and used texts on warfare IRL often say something along the lines of "If you are this/here but your enemy thinks you are that/there, you've pretty much got them by the b*lls..."
Just a thought.

[inquisitorsog]

I have no idea why the Space Wolves were chosen as the "executioner legion" except for perhaps it's to do with their conviction and the way they ruthlessly prosecute their wars.
The whole thing about Primarchs and their Legions having certain roles is fairly recent though - never heard anything about it as a youngster.


This is a concept really only put forth in the Horus Heresy novels, and really only in the Wolves/Thousand Sons story arc novels. Your comments make it seem you have not read Prospero Burns. If so, this must indeed be a bit of a mystery.

I read it as an apology on the part of the Black Library/Abnett for the last Space Wolves 'dex fully turning them into tall squats.
There. I said it. Space Wolves are just tall squats: drunken vikings who live underground or in mountains. They are, more than any other faction in the 40k realm, a caricature. If they were such a bad caricature of any other ethnic group other than an European one, then the Politically Correct Police would be up in arms.

Abnett seriously redeemed the Wolves in my mind. I'm hardly a raving fan of Abnett either... he's often hit or miss for me. But, Prospero Burns actually made me think of the Wolves as something other than a bunch of needing-a-shower biker types.

[wittdooley]

Abnett seriously redeemed the Wolves in my mind. I'm hardly a raving fan of Abnett either... he's often hit or miss for me. But, Prospero Burns actually made me think of the Wolves as something other than a bunch of needing-a-shower biker types.

This, about 10x over. Prospero Burns is the first piece of literature published by the Black Library (the roots of which were planted with First Heretic & Thousand Sons). The extensive mythology and character provided in Prospero Burns is why I was wholly disappointed by Fear to Tread. Abnett sets the bar impossibly high in Prospero. McNeill and ADB come close, and John French came close in his short story "The Last Remembrancer," but less.....accomplished authors Swallow and Gav really show how high that bar has been set. Raven's Flight & Fear to Tread aren't bad books; they simply cannot live up to the expectations and precedent Abnett established. And that's okay.

But the fact remains that the Space Wolves are CLEARLY not mindless killers, and as far as the Horus Heresy goes, are pretty easily the most complex legion (though I'd hear arguments for the Thousand Sons & Alpha Legion :D ). What the Space Wolves are now, and why they are the Emperor's Executioners is summed up in a single phrase from Prospero Burns:

"It takes a great deal of restraint to be this dangerous."

[Psychosplodge]

The wolves do not question, they do not doubt, and they are loyal to Russ and the all-father above all.
This is why they get the **** jobs, they play the savage berserker, but the reality is far removed, it's a handy charade though...

[Chris*ta]

This is a concept really only put forth in the Horus Heresy novels, and really only in the Wolves/Thousand Sons story arc novels. Your comments make it seem you have not read Prospero Burns. If so, this must indeed be a bit of a mystery.

I read it as an apology on the part of the Black Library/Abnett for the last Space Wolves 'dex fully turning them into tall squats.
There. I said it. Space Wolves are just tall squats: drunken vikings who live underground or in mountains. They are, more than any other faction in the 40k realm, a caricature. If they were such a bad caricature of any other ethnic group other than an European one, then the Politically Correct Police would be up in arms.

Abnett seriously redeemed the Wolves in my mind. I'm hardly a raving fan of Abnett either... he's often hit or miss for me. But, Prospero Burns actually made me think of the Wolves as something other than a bunch of needing-a-shower biker types.

The last 'dex? Don't you mean ALL THE 'DEXES? Also, you've pretty much summed up my feelings on the SWs.


The wolves do not question, they do not doubt, and they are loyal to Russ and the all-father above all.
This is why they get the **** jobs, they play the savage berserker, but the reality is far removed, it's a handy charade though...

This "they only seem shallow, actually they're so deep" writing s**ts me even more than the Vikings in SPAAACE writing they previously had.

I guess it feels (to me at least) that every Legion/Chapter has a "this is why we're the awesomest" attitude, but Space Wolves have that attitude, along with a really dumb bunch of reasons why.

[dark messenger]

I have read both Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns... but the idea of Legions having a role still seems a little silly to me because didn't the Emperor create all the Legions equally to conquer the galaxy for humanity?

As for the idea that Space Wolves are really barbarians or simplistic or portrayed poorly in their codexes - isn't that ok? I like the Wolves as my premier SM army. The fact that they are often ridiculed for their lore or aspect (is that the right word for it?) as mindless attack dogs of the Emperor is, to me, exactly what makes them so unique. You make of them what you will surely?

That being said Chris*ta struck a chord with me. It's true every Legion has their own credo of how they're the Emperor's greatest. If you believe what the HH books say the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus were the best. But was that just they were the most successful?
I think Russ and his pack are the best. That goes right through to the M.41 btw - the Wolves are clearly still the most dangerous and ruthless Chapter in space. Were it not for the fear and mistrust of the rest of the Imperium they would probably be as lauded as the Ultramarines imo

[wittdooley]

I have read both Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns... but the idea of Legions having a role still seems a little silly to me because didn't the Emperor create all the Legions equally to conquer the galaxy for humanity?


I never got the impression that he created them equally. They all, fairly clearly, have a role and a purpose, and are, effectively, all representative of a different aspect of the Emperor himself. That's why there are certain Primarchs that are the yin to another's yang, if you will.

And quite frankly, I think how much a character the Space Wolves dex makes them is pretty subjective. I read that dex with a Prospero Burns tinted pair of reading glasses, and I see that Dex as more of a mythology. Of course the tales are superlative: so are all the Greek Myths. The grander the story, the more that hero lives on through story and tradition. No one actually believes Odysseus, the actual man, did all the stuff Homer wrote about; rather, it's pretty generally accepted that Odysseus was such a great hero that the exaggeration of his deeds was appropriate for their grandeur.

Again, Chris, we get that you see the Space Wolves as Vikings in space, but IMO, that's great. The Vikings had a rich culture and rich traditions, and Norse Mythology, while less widely read, is fantastic. To condescend to Viking culture and arbitrarily state that vikings were simply drunkards and barbarians is a bit unfair; sure, they were those things to the conquered, but much like the Space Wolves, a history written from their perspective tells a far different story.

[Psychosplodge]

The wolves do not question, they do not doubt, and they are loyal to Russ and the all-father above all.
This is why they get the **** jobs, they play the savage berserker, but the reality is far removed, it's a handy charade though...



This "they only seem shallow, actually they're so deep" writing s**ts me even more than the Vikings in SPAAACE writing they previously had.

I guess it feels (to me at least) that every Legion/Chapter has a "this is why we're the awesomest" attitude, but Space Wolves have that attitude, along with a really dumb bunch of reasons why.

This is essentially a continuation of the Space Vikings theme, Vikings swore oaths to their Jarl then obeyed without question...

[Wildcard]

I have read both Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns... but the idea of Legions having a role still seems a little silly to me because didn't the Emperor create all the Legions equally to conquer the galaxy for humanity?

There is this fact that the conquering of the galaxy wasn't meant to took eternity. So, when the war was over, Emperor had roles for his sons in his Imperium. Builders/architects, politicans, artist , crafters/techgeegs, diplomats, outright leaders, rumoured psyker for the golden throne, police force, psy... Practically 20 aspects needed to effectively run the Imperium and look for its wellfare.

[wittdooley]

There is this fact that the conquering of the galaxy wasn't meant to took eternity. So, when the war was over, Emperor had roles for his sons in his Imperium. Builders/architects, politicans, artist , crafters/techgeegs, diplomats, outright leaders, rumoured psyker for the golden throne, police force, psy... Practically 20 aspects needed to effectively run the Imperium and look for its wellfare.

And interestingly, this is a theme the better HH writers explore in their stories: what is the purpose of a weapon if there is no war? We see both the primarchs and the legionnaires explore this topic. And even better .....

--SPOILER ALERT--

... we see this theme explored by one of the Emperor's former weapons, a thunder warrior, in the Outcast Dead.

Anyways, back to the Space Wolves: Chris-- I really think you need to read Thousand Sons and Prospero, and then if you're endeavoring enough, Battle of the Fang (an execellent, excellent novel by Chris Wraigt that is sort of a "warhammer 35K" story). These three stories dispel much of the surface barbarism you keep alluding to with the whole "Vikings in Spaaaace" schtick.

[Chris*ta]

Again, Chris, we get that you see the Space Wolves as Vikings in space, but IMO, that's great. The Vikings had a rich culture and rich traditions, and Norse Mythology, while less widely read, is fantastic. To condescend to Viking culture and arbitrarily state that vikings were simply drunkards and barbarians is a bit unfair; sure, they were those things to the conquered, but much like the Space Wolves, a history written from their perspective tells a far different story.

My point is not that the drunken barbarian thing was actually true of IRL Vikings, but that's the cliche that most people have of them, and most of the stuff about SWs is written to reflect that cliche, to a greater or lesser extent.

Oh, and I'm disinclined to start reading the HH books, on the principle that I'd have to read all of them and I already have more than enough books on my to read pile.

[wittdooley]

My point is not that the drunken barbarian thing was actually true of IRL Vikings, but that's the cliche that most people have of them, and most of the stuff about SWs is written to reflect that cliche, to a greater or lesser extent.

Oh, and I'm disinclined to start reading the HH books, on the principle that I'd have to read all of them and I already have more than enough books on my to read pile.

Can you really say that's true, though? I mean, the most recent 3 or 4 stories regarding the Space Wolves are QUITE the opposite (Prospero, 1000k Sons, Battle of Fang, Deathwolf, Kraken). The whole Ragnar series embodies that a little bit, but even that series isn't THAT bad.

Which Space Wolf stories have you read? Or is the majority of your opinion based on the codex?

[Chris*ta]

Based on Codex. It is the primary work on a faction after all.

[wittdooley]

Based on Codex. It is the primary work on a faction after all.

I think that's our disconnect. I tend to use the Codex as the least 'fleshed out' of any of the fluff they provide and stake more claim in the stories that are written. IMO, it's harder to take any of the codexes terribly seriously when they're written by rules developers and not authors, ya know?

[Chris*ta]

I think that's our disconnect. I tend to use the Codex as the least 'fleshed out' of any of the fluff they provide and stake more claim in the stories that are written. IMO, it's harder to take any of the codexes terribly seriously when they're written by rules developers and not authors, ya know?

See, this may be our problem. I started before the novels were published at all, and think of them as secondary to the Codexes. It's a bit like in Star Wars canon, where the movie canon is more true than the expanded universe canon (i.e. books/cartoons/games etc.).

Not only were the codexes the only source of info available, they were written by the people who created the universe.

When the books started to come out, they were written by ringers who didn't have the handle on the fluff that the Studio did, or the "license" (in my head, at least) to create new stuff.

I suppose I don't trust the books because (at least in my head) they're not checked by someone against the "Official" canon that comes direct from the original creators of the fluff. Some of whom (at least) are still active in the Studio. And I know the Studio has lately come out with a number of bits of canon that many people argue against, (BA Necron brofist) but I manage to maintain my belief regardless.