Snap Shot question

[Davis Wurzler]

Howdy all, I'm hoping somebody here can help me out. I've been debating with some friends about what weapons can snap fire under the new FAQ. My buddy is trying to say that because of this rule:

Q: Does a weapon that hits automatically, still hit automatically
when making a Snap Shot? (p13)
A: Yes

that almost all weapons can snap fire. He says that the rules were changed and this one little ruling means that any weapon that automatically hits can snap fire, even though this would invalidate most of the snap shot rules. Specifically we've been arguing over the Necron Death Ray. He is using skyfire with his Doom Scythes to shoot down my fliers with tesla, and then shooting the Death Ray at my ground units as a snap shot. However, the rule book and this bit of FAQ seem to clearly state that the Death Ray, novas, beams, maelstroms, and any weapon that doesn't roll to hit can't snap fire.

Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon
that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with
Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping
Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use
blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or
otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them. This includes
weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the
Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic
powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and novas.

So my question is, which of us is right? Can the weapons and attacks listed in the rule book as not being able to snap fire now snap fire? Or is he just making up what he wants (he does kind of have a history of doing this). I'd like to be sure before I call him out on this, as this kind of stuff can lead to long arguments with him. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Wolfshade]

Snap shots can be made by weapons that automatically hit as long as they are not being made against Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monsterous Creatures

So,
Can you snap shot with a nova against a charging hive tyrant? yes.
Can you snap shot with a nova against a swooping winged hive tyrant? no.

[Wolfshade]

Also, while not applicable in the situation you described, but still of some relevance.


Q: Can psychic shooting attacks be fired as Snap Shots (assuming that the Psyker has enough Warp Charge available and requires a roll to hit)? (p13)
A: Yes, but only in your own Shooting phase. This means that psychic shooting attacks cannot be made when firing Overwatch.

[DarkLink]

Snap shots can be made by weapons that automatically hit as long as they are not being made against Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monsterous Creatures

So,
Can you snap shot with a nova against a charging hive tyrant? yes.
Can you snap shot with a nova against a swooping winged hive tyrant? no.

Incorrect. The whole point of that FAQ is that novas/line weapons cannot snap shot, and thus can't hit flyers precisely because they cannot snap shot. Hitting automatically doesn't matter if you can't snap shot at all.

There may be some other type of weapon in the game at some point in the future that automatically hits, and can actually snap shot, but as far as I know there isn't one and that particular FAQ question is completely pointless.

[Nabterayl]

I think your friend needs to re-take his logic course. That FAQ doesn't imply that weapons that hit automatically can make Snap Shots; it only answers what happens if they can. If you can't get him to see that that, you might try pointing out to him that the FAQ is structurally identical to this:


Q. Does a politician who tells the truth automatically, still tell the truth automatically when on campaign?
A. Yes.

If the above is true, it does not mean that all politicians tell the truth automatically. It only tells you that if you can find one who tells the truth automatically, he will still tell the truth automatically even if he's on campaign. Ditto for weapons and Snap Shots. If you can find a weapon that rolls to hit using BS and hits automatically, that weapon will still hit automatically when making Snap Shots.

[DarkLink]

Exactly. As I said, there may be some auto-hit weapon out there that is allowed to snap fire (but I don't know of any), in which case it auto-hits. But novas/line weapons/etc can't snap fire in the first place, and thus don't hit, flyers or not.

[Chris*ta]

@ Nabterayl: what's that joke about the gravestone that reads "Here lies a lawyer and an honest man"?

;)

[Houghten]

There may be some other type of weapon in the game at some point in the future that automatically hits, and can actually snap shot, but as far as I know there isn't one and that particular FAQ question is completely pointless.

There used to be certain weapons that did Xd6 hits without rolling to hit. The only one I can think of right now was a psychic power, though.

[Chris*ta]

There used to be certain weapons that did Xd6 hits without rolling to hit. The only one I can think of right now was a psychic power, though.

Or flamers in the old Cities of Death rules ;)

[Wolfshade]

Incorrect. The whole point of that FAQ is that novas/line weapons cannot snap shot, and thus can't hit flyers precisely because they cannot snap shot. Hitting automatically doesn't matter if you can't snap shot at all.

There may be some other type of weapon in the game at some point in the future that automatically hits, and can actually snap shot, but as far as I know there isn't one and that particular FAQ question is completely pointless.
Sorry yes, obviously it needs to comply with the other rules for snap shots, what I was trying to illustrate was how the two faq questions weren't contradictory, and as a consequence failed to give a proper example :(

[Tynskel]

@ Nabterayl: what's that joke about the gravestone that reads "Here lies a lawyer and an honest man"?

;)

It is totally clear by this statement that there are 3 headstones.
1 for the lawyer
1 for honest, the dog.
and 1 for the man.

[SacredChao]

Howdy all, I'm hoping somebody here can help me out. I've been debating with some friends about what weapons can snap fire under the new FAQ. My buddy is trying to say that because of this rule:

Q: Does a weapon that hits automatically, still hit automatically
when making a Snap Shot? (p13)
A: Yes

that almost all weapons can snap fire. He says that the rules were changed and this one little ruling means that any weapon that automatically hits can snap fire, even though this would invalidate most of the snap shot rules. Specifically we've been arguing over the Necron Death Ray. He is using skyfire with his Doom Scythes to shoot down my fliers with tesla, and then shooting the Death Ray at my ground units as a snap shot. However, the rule book and this bit of FAQ seem to clearly state that the Death Ray, novas, beams, maelstroms, and any weapon that doesn't roll to hit can't snap fire.

Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon
that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with
Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping
Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use
blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or
otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them. This includes
weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the
Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic
powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and novas.

So my question is, which of us is right? Can the weapons and attacks listed in the rule book as not being able to snap fire now snap fire? Or is he just making up what he wants (he does kind of have a history of doing this). I'd like to be sure before I call him out on this, as this kind of stuff can lead to long arguments with him. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Now the Real Issue is that "How is he firing the Death Ray at a different target?" that people seem to be missing ;p The Doom Scythe doesn't have Power of the Machine Spirit so he has to target the flyer.... which according to the FAQ can't target them, thus can't fire (unless I'm missing something about the Death Ray not needing to target to fire).

Either way, to the real discussion, There are a few ways to snap shot auto hitting stuff. If you are in a vehicle that gets shaken, the units inside must snap fire. If you use a psychic power that is a Beam/Nova/Maelstrom etc. it will still auto hit.

[Wildcard]

I was about to bring up the PotM issue the previous poster already had, so here is another take on the matter, speaking against firing Death Ray in a manner OP described:

Now, i don't have a necron codex, but there are cases where with a weapons similar to Death Ray (doesn't work like normal shooting), has it FaQed or ruled out in the book so that you have to shoot your other weapons and / or assault to the first/one-of-the unit(s) that the line hit.

If not completely mistaken, one of this kind of weapon is BA Blood Lance