Customizing a SM Chapter Master

[lunavoco]

I'm using BRB 5E and SM Codex 5E. I don;t have access to the 6E BRB yet.

I'm trying to kit out a Chapter Master. So far i've given him a Relic Blade and a Jump Pack. I was hoping to give him a plasma pistol as well. Is this allowed? I was hoping that he could shoot the plasma pistol on turns he's not close enough to assault on. Are there any rules that prevent me from having him 1-hand the Relic Blade to draw and fire a pistol, then sheath the pistol and 2-hand the blade for close combat when it comes?

I've heard rumor that there may be precedent: a space marine tactical squad is equipped with Bolters and Bolt Pistols, but cannot assault if they fire their bolters. Some players opt to have them fire their bolt pistols and then charge to melee.

Can anyone offer any clarification on this?
Would you be able to cite any pages for reference?

[JMichael]

Just like in 5th edition, you may have multiple 1 handed and 2 handed weapons. You just need to choose and state what you are using.
In your example, you may shoot the pistol in the shooting phase and when you assault choose to either use the pistol (which would just be your base Str) or the 2handed Relic Blade.

As it was in 5th edition, you may not assault after shooting a Rapid Fire weapon (unless you have a special rule that allows this).

I'm not familier with Space Marine options, but even if you had a BoltGun, Plasma Pistol, and Relic Blade you could choose which to shoot with and which to fight the Assault with.

[Anggul]

a space marine tactical squad is equipped with Bolters and Bolt Pistols, but cannot assault if they fire their bolters. Some players opt to have them fire their bolt pistols and then charge to melee.

This is because Bolters are rapid-fire weapons, and you can't assault after firing a rapid-fire weapon. There are no rules for which hand is holding which weapon or what is/isn't sheathed, the fact that a Relic Blade is two-handed just means having a pistol with it doesn't grant you +1 attack. You can still fire whatever you want and use whichever weapon you want whenever you want within that weapon's rules.

[Nabterayl]

Can anyone offer any clarification on this?
Would you be able to cite any pages for reference?
What you need to look for in page cites is a rule that says a model can only have X many weapons, or X many hands' worth of weapons. There is no such cite, in 5th or 6th edition, because there is no such rule, so you're good. The whole idea of a weapon occupying "hands" is two editions old.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Yeah, there's no restriction on how many weapons a model can be equipped with. If the wargear options allowed a Sergeant to buy a Powerfist, Powersword, Chainfist and Lascannon, he totally could. If it allows you to purchase that combination of weaponry, you can take it.

[lunavoco]

Thanks for the fast info! I suppose it may show that the last official set I played with was 3E. It's been a while.

Not that it's particularly relevant, but this allowed me to finish my list today at work. I'm not looking to be terribly competitive, just hoping for a good time amongst friends. Never used drop pods, so I figured I'd go whole hog for a bit. We'll end up proxying them with carboard disks I suppose.


1000 Force Total
180 HQ 1
125 Chapter Master
030 Relic "Blade" (Hammer model)
025 Jump Pack

215 Troops 1
170 10 man Tactical Squad
000 Multi-Melta Upgrade x1
010 Plasma Gun Upgrade x1
035 Drop Pod Transport

215 Troops 2
170 10 man Tactical Squad
000 Multi-Melta Upgrade x1
010 Plasma Gun Upgrade x1
035 Drop Pod Transport

185 Elites 1
125 5 man Stergard Veteran Squad
035 Drop Pod Transport
025 Combi-Plasma x5

105 Fast Attack 1
100 5 man Assault Squad
005 Melta Bomb Upgrade for Sergeant

100 Heavy Support
100 Thunderfire Cannon

[energongoodie]

I personally think Artificier Armour is pretty good and well worth taking for a chapter master know that power weapons are only AP3.

[lunavoco]

I really tried to get that in, but I couldn't get the points to work. Essentially, this is the most stripped down I could get while fielding the units i was looking to... And we're stuck in 5E. Power weapons ignore armor saves still. Apparently my chapter hasn't received the tech update yet. And being former black templar player, I'm pretty done with mixed unit saves.

I was pretty disappointed to find that a Chapter Master's Honor Guard doesn't have the option to buy Jump Packs if he's got one. "Sir, How do you expect us to guard you if you keep leaving us behind?"

[The AKH]

The 25 points you save by taking a Captain instead of a Chapter Master (especially at 1000 points) is more than enough to net you a suit of Artificer armour - the only difference between the two is the Orbital Bombardment.

Also, I suspect that Command Squads/Honour Guards in the Space Marine Codex were disallowed jump packs in order to keep them from treading on the toes of the Blood Angels.

[lunavoco]

The 25 points you save by taking a Captain instead of a Chapter Master (especially at 1000 points) is more than enough to net you a suit of Artificer armour - the only difference between the two is the Orbital Bombardment.

True, but I chose him specifically for the Orbital Bombardment. I've got to try it out at least once. I played alot back in the day and eventually fell out interest. When the Dawn of War games came out it was like running into an old friend again. We had some good times, mostly fueled by orbital bombardment :) If it find that I can't use it to good advantage, I'll swap him out and recoup the points.

[Houghten]

What you need to look for in page cites is a rule that says a model can only have X many weapons, or X many hands' worth of weapons. There is no such cite, in 5th or 6th edition, because there is no such rule, so you're good. The whole idea of a weapon occupying "hands" is two editions old.

The idea is still alive and kicking in 6th, mainly in the form of the Two-Handed universal special rule (paraphrased: a model attacking with a weapon with this special rule can never gain bonus attacks for having an extra close combat weapon).

However, much like in Munchkin, you can carry more items than you can use.


Yeah, there's no restriction on how many weapons a model can be equipped with. If the wargear options allowed a Sergeant to buy a Powerfist, Powersword, Chainfist and Lascannon, he totally could. If it allows you to purchase that combination of weaponry, you can take it.

What the codex does allow you to purchase is four lightning claws. You won't get any benefit from it - only from two of them - but you can still do it.

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I'd also note that two FAQs have relevant answers here: Space Marines and Dark Angels. The Space Marine FAQ states that you can simultaneously benefit from a Relic Blade and a Storm Shield - just because the shield is held in a hand doesn't stop you from gaining the invulnerable save, as it's not a bonus Attack* - and the Dark Angels FAQ states that you can fire a storm bolter and then charge into combat with two lightning claws.

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If you wanted to squeeze in the Artificer Armour without dropping the Orbital Bombardment, consider switching out the Relic Blade for a single Lightning Claw. S4 with re-rolls is almost imperceptibly worse against T4 than S6 without (just don't try to take it up against monstrous creatures).