Two attacks now?

[atreides]

I know how this question should be decided, but I haven't seen any mention of it in these forums so I thought I would ask. If this has been discussed before and I haven't seen it, well, I'm sorry for bring it up again, I be teh noob or whatever.

On page 51 of the 6th Ed. Rulebook, it says "If a model is not specifically stated as having a weapon with the Melee type, it is treated as being armed with a single close combat weapon." The next sentence says "A pistol can be used as a close combat weapon. If this is done, use the profile given above [that profile being the one for a CCW] - the Strength, AP and special rules of the pistol's Shooting profile are ignored..."

Now, Tac squad Marines are stated as being armed with a bolt pistol, frag and krak grenades, and boltgun. The bolt pistol can be used as a CCW, but the pistol itself does not specifically have the Melee type unless in close combat and even then, it only uses the profile. So that would mean that they are assumed to have a single CCW? And, if so, wouldn't that mean that the assumed CCW and pistol together would give the models +1 attack?

I know that's not what was intended. I assume I'm missing something that makes my argument totally fall apart. I can already think of a couple of points that could swing the argument either way. I also can't believe I'm the only person who has noticed this. So, please, prove me wrong or prove me right. Show me where I am either brilliant or stupid (though, for the record, I am neither). And, if you care to do so, vote in the poll.

Thanks.

[Houghten]

"the pistol itself does not specifically have the Melee type unless in close combat and even then, it only uses the profile"

Wrong and wrong again.

[evilamericorp]

I had a similar question for Kroot. The Kroot rifle says that it counts as an additional close combat weapon, but Kroot aren't armed with anything else. Does the rifle itself count as a melee weapon for the BRB stipulation, or are Kroot now armed with two CCWs?

[War Painter]

The Tau FAQ actually has an errata for this. It reads “Kroot with Kroot Rifles count as having two single-handed weapons in close
combat.”

So they would receive +1 attacks for having the Two Weapons bonus. I think of it like a quarterstaff how you can quickly hit with both ends of the weapon.

[atreides]

"the pistol itself does not specifically have the Melee type unless in close combat and even then, it only uses the profile"

Wrong and wrong again.

"Wrong" is an acceptable (and expected) answer. But WHY is it wrong?

[Nabterayl]

Well, in order to be right, a model with a weapon that "counts as a close combat weapon in the Assault phase" would have to be "not specifically stated as having a weapon with the Melee type." So we would have to read a model that counts as having a weapon with the Melee type in the Assault phase as not being specifically stated to have a weapon with the Melee type. I can't do that with a straight face.

[Kevlarshark]

I think to even ask this question you are reading things in a deeper way than was intended by the writers. It was a catch all phrase to prevent people saying "that model has no melee weapon so cant fight back" rendering many tau units even more useless in CC.

[DarkLink]

"Wrong" is an acceptable (and expected) answer. But WHY is it wrong?

He was specifically referring the the fact that pistols do, in fact, have the melee rule in assault, making your claim 'wrong'.

[Schlitzaf]

The rule here page 51

"If a model is not specifically stated as having a weapon with the melee type, it is treated as being armed with single close combat weapon". This does not just include the assault phase this is a permament rule that is constantly active

Look at pistol rule page 52
All Pistols are effectvely assault 1 weapons. A Pistol also count as a close combat weapon in the assault phase. That means it is not passive effect, while CCW may only affect situations in the assault phase, the rule 51 says whenever a model does not have specifically stated as having melee type it has a CCW. Be it shooting, moving or charge phrase. You could argue that once in the assault phase a model gains a specifically stated melee type weapon, w/ a pistol. But that from what I see is inferred via Pistol rules not specifically stated.
I think this dumb rule and I am proberly overthinking it but that is how I see it as RAW

[Houghten]

Everything you need is right there on page 51: "A pistol can be used as a close combat weapon. If this is done, use the profile given above" (Range -, S User, AP -, Type Melee). Any model with a pistol has a close combat weapon. ALL THE TIME. It doesn't magically appear and disappear in and out of the Assault Phase.

Now, I'm going to beat my head against a wall until I can believe that the pistol-close-combat weapon does magically appear at the beginning of the model's Fight sub-phase. Guess what? As soon as the model has a weapon with the Melee type, its no-specified-melee-weapon weapon magically disappears, as the conditions for its existence are no longer valid.

There is no universe in which you can get two melee attacks off one pistol.

[Uncle Nutsy]

Unless said character is equipped with TWO close-combat weapons, he counts as only having one attack.

case closed.