Horus Heresy Vol 1 Rumour Roundup.

[Mr Mystery]

RAAAAAWWWWWHIIIIIIIIIIIIDEEE!!!!

Yup, it's time I feel to arrange all the knowledge into a single thread for ease of reading, and thus digestion!

Interesting Fact 1: There IS a Mechanicum presence in this book. Ordo Reductor. It is largely ancillary however, consider it's current stage as an Allies list. Pretty fun troops. Djinn Sight - No sneaky sneaky within 24" at all (Infiltrators, sod off!) regardless of LoS. And Eldar Pathfinders may want to stay at home. How does -2 to enemy cover save grab you? T5 and 3 wounds with a 4+ save. Pretty resilient. Also, they're Jet Pack infantry (no I'm not making this up!). Standard Weapon is the Lightning Gun. 18", S7, AP5, Heavy 1, Shred, Rending. Pretty filthy! Various upgrades available, but I don't want to spoil all the surprises. If this is standard type stuff, Mechanicum armies are going to be small, but tough as old boots.

Legion Army list.

Blimey o'reilly crikey Mavis. I don't know where to start. Oh, okay. Deimos Predator (well, any heresy era Predator really) has a 4 shot Autocannon. Slightly shorter range at 36", but a welcome boost, and the default weapon.

Volkite weapons are quite the surprise. Kind of ish Imperial Tesla, but with an extra automatic hit for every unsaved wound. Pretty respectable stats, but noticably shorter ranged than most small arms. Additional hits don't generate other hits. That would be silly. But it will leave Orks and Dark Eldar hurting a lot (mmmm...AP5!)

Phosphex bombs are one shot weapons o'filth. Wherever it hits, leave the blast template there petal. It's just been set light to. Dangerous terrain for anything open topped, or with a toughness value. Oh, and once the templates final landing place has been worked out? Owning player can move it 2" in any direction, as long as it hits more models. Very, very sexy! Oh and they're AP2....and Poisoned 3+.

Jetbikes....yeah Jetbikes rock big monkey nads. Seriously. Heavy Bolter as standard, and 1 in 3 can have a Plasma Cannon, Multimelta or Volkite Culverin (45", S6, AP5, Heavy 4, and that rule I was explaining earlier...)

Now I know what you think, but I am not yanking your chain!

Over to those other lucky sods with a copy of the book, don't want to hog all the glory!

[Mr Mystery]

Oh go on then, I'll spoil you!

Noticable oddity, just pointed out to me by my chum....Tactical squads are bolters only. No special or heavy weapons...But they do get 'Fury of the Legion'. Really fancy giving something a bit of dakka? Call Fury of the Legion, and fire your bolt weapons twice. And in squads of up to 20 for a meage 300 points....that's gotta hurt. But, you can't then do Overwatch in your opponents player turn, or fire in your next turn as you reload. You can however, run, assault and otherwise act normally. Oh, and you can buy them all chainswords for 2 points each. Bit of a bargain if you ask me.

Tactical Support Squads. 5 Marines, all with Flamers. ALL can be upgraded to the usual toys, plus Volkite Calivers (diddy version of the Jetbike filthblaster...and basically just shorter ranged and fewer shots. And assault). Can be boosted to 10 special weapon toting loonies.

Breacher Siege Squad - All have Boarding Shields, and Hardened Armour (re-roll failed saves against blast and template weapons. Sheesh!)

Legion Reconnasissance Squads - More or less Scouts, but with the option to swap Power Armour for a 4+ sabve, Infiltrate and Move Through Cover). Come with Scout, Outflank, Acute Senses. Pretty naughty for a Troops choice (but like any that aren't Tactical or Assault, they don't count for your minimums!)

Rhinos can have Heavy Flamer or Heavy Bolter bunged on. Bit pricey, but the extra firepower has it's uses, spesh as it doesn't reduce your capacity.

I spoil you! I really do!

[Mr Mystery]

Want some sauce?

Legion Cerberus Heavy Tank Destroyer....

Twin linked Neutron Laser (las cannon on steroids) AV14 all round, and a sexy flare shield that reduces incoming ranged attacks by -1 strength, or -2 for blast weapons. Can also have Lascannon or Heavy Bolter sponsons. It's a bit tasty!

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Holy biovore balls, batman, this is a surprise.

So much "Horus Heresy only" stuff's been filtering up to 40k, I guess they decided to make up for it by introducing even more Heresy-tech. ...which I now want to use in my Chaos Marines army :P

Interesting that they've changed how special weapons are distributed throughout the army. Wonder if the Ultramarines will be a bit more modern-40k when the Heresy books get to them.

Seems like Tactical Squads are designed to favor letting off a brutal bolter barrage, then charging, which feels nice and fluffy.

Also, any sign of the Conversion Beamer in heavy weapon squads?

When you say Support Squads can be upgraded to "all the usual toys", does that include heavy weapons?

[Mr Mystery]

Honestly not sure. This list is presented as pretty standard. It also has rough head counts for each Legion.

Emperor's Children for example, one of the smaller legions? Estimated strength of 110,000, reduced to 50,000 by the end of Istvaan III...

Lots of character types, after a fashion. Centurions, the lower level HQ, can be upgraded to Chaplains, Forgelords, Librarians, Primis Medicae etc.

Moritat upgrade is good fun. Twin pistols, Rad Grenades. And chain fire. Every hit with a pistol lets you take another one. Keep going until you miss. Oh and he's BS5. And both pistols can seemingly be upgraded. Make them Volkite and positively wet yourself as a single dude confidentially wipes out a Mob of Orks single handed. In one shooting phase. Dakka to the power of WIN!!!!! Oh, but no assaulting that turn. Or shooting next turn. Turn up, blast like a loon, leg it seems to be the order of the day!

[Cow]

Any news on when this book comes out for the rest of us?

[Mr Mystery]

Afraid not. And you still can't look at my copy!

[Mr Mystery]

Oh, and Cataphractii armour isn't just pretty plate. It gives a 2+ armour, 4+ invulnerable, and swap relentless for slow and purposeful.

[Mr Mystery]

Heavy Support Squads. Heavy Bolters as standard. Everyone has one. Can upgrade, but no mixing of weapons....

I have a boner for 10 strong squads with Volkite Culverins......

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

It was good to meet the MAN OF MYSTERY! :p

Shame that we didn't get our game....

Wow man, wow. The Heresy book is fantastic. :D

[Wildcard]

Any new type of close combat weapons, or special effects for those?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

World Eaters use HEAVY CHAINSWORDS!
Finally.

Urmm....

Paragon Blade
STR +1
AP 2
Melee, Specialist Weapon, Murderous Strike (Instant Death on the roll of a 6)

Power Scythe
STR +1
AP 2
Melee, Unwieldy, Two handed, Sweep Attack (model can exchange it's regular attacks to attack everyone in base contact)

Charnable Sabre
STR (as user)
AP -
Melee, Rending, Duelist's Edge (in a duel you gain +1 initiative)

Chainaxe
STR (as user)
AP 4

Meteor Hammer
STR +2
AP 5
Melee, Specialist Weapon, Two Handed, Concussive, +1 Initiative

Excoriator Chainaxe
STR +1
AP 3
Melee, Specialist Weapon, Two Handed, Shred, Unwieldy

Twin Falax Blades
STR (as user)
AP 5
Melee, Specialist Weapon, +1 Attack, Rending

Barb-hook Lash
STR (as user)
AP 5
Melee, Specialist Weapon, Fleshbane

[Wildcard]

Nice to see lots of Close Combat innovation and not only increased rate of fire, better strenght and better armor penetration on guns (*cough chaos space marines cough*)

[ChacoStylez]

But what about Garviel Loken, what are his rules? I'm dying to know, okay, not dying, but is he pretty B.A.?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

He gets back up on the roll of a 1. :D
The rest is pretty standard, he has a Paragon Blade.

[Mr Mystery]

Now, start listing your questions. I'll be answering them tonight.

Just you know, don't ask for scans or any naughty content type stuff that would break forum rules.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I'll answer any too. (you never know how many questions you may get)

[Psychosplodge]

So how many errors have you found in your seventy pound book?

I've only flicked through it, but on the organisation chart it say's first battalion where to make sense in context it should say first company.
And somewhere near the back there's a the spelt zvthe. ¬_¬ It should have been fricking perfect...

[eldargal]

Ha, welcome to FW.:p

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I haven't noticed much.

[Psychosplodge]

lol I'm familiar with FW, but it would have been nice...

[DrLove42]

After the Aeronautica book telling me to turn my tits around nothing tops that

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

You do have fabulous norks Doc. :p

[Deadlift]

Is the book worth getting for players not interested in the named legions. I am guessing the vehicles are not legion specific ?
Basically does the book enable players to make a vanilla list.

[Psychosplodge]

possibly not looked properly, There is a lot of art and background though...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yes.

I think you need the first one to write any Legion list to be frank. Seeing as I don't think they'll reprint the Legion army list in each book.

[Deadlift]

Thank you mateys, TDA I take it you had a good 20th then :)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

It was awesome! It was full of LIZORD GANGNAM STYLE! :D

Thank you to you though. You stopped it from being TERRIBRU. :p

[Cow]

I want this book so badly, or I want it to be about book 4 now so badly

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Prospero? :p

[Vangrail]

question on some of the units and armor. Can any of it be used outside the heresy books? Id love to buy the typhon for my sons of medusa, but i could use it for the Iron hands when they come out.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Um.

Not from these sets of books, no. But I had heard that the Typhon should be coming to 40k soon.

[Wildeybeast]

I want this book so badly, or I want it to be about book 4 now so badly

Book 3 is where it's at, Alpha Legion and Raven Guard, clearly the two best legions!

[Psychosplodge]

Book 3 is where it's at, Alpha Legion and Raven Guard, clearly the two best legions!

I suppose they're up there...

[Vangrail]

happy for world eaters now I need my iron hands!

[david5th]

happy for world eaters now I need my iron hands!

At FW seminar they said Iron Hands in next book, probably same time next year.

[energongoodie]

At FW seminar they said Iron Hands in next book, probably same time next year.

Can't ............wait..............that................ long :o

[Wildeybeast]

I suppose they're up there...

I forgot the Rainbow Marines were your favourite. :p

[Psychosplodge]

Far too colourful :p

[Deadlift]

At FW seminar they said Iron Hands in next book, probably same time next year.

Do you really think it will be another year ? I was thinking spring at the latest.

[Kirsten]

At FW seminar they said Iron Hands in next book, probably same time next year.

did forge world provide that time scale? that would seem very unlikely. Initial rumour was that book two would be out by christmas.

[Deadlift]

did forge world provide that time scale? that would seem very unlikely. Initial rumour was that book two would be out by christmas.

I am more inclined to believe you, no slight at you intended David :) but
I just don't want to believe each book will only be an annual release.

[Psychosplodge]

Far too soon, they want you to buy all this stuff first, then buy that as well, not buy one or the other.

[Kirsten]

'this stuff?' there is only the book really, there is nothing else specific to this release in reality because people will already know which legion they want to collect, it isn't like a GW army where someone might buy an army, then another when the next codex they like comes out. The background material is well established, the basic armour sets are released, there is only one army list with legion specific rules, it wouldn't take them very long to get another book out if they wanted to.

[Psychosplodge]

Well they've released all these goodies, I should imagine if they release too much at once, once the hypes died down and people can afford to buy more they might have second thoughts, but if they hype it up every six months, with some legion specific units and a couple of armour variants followed by a book release...

[Kirsten]

quite a lot of the heresy stuff has been out a while though, there isn't that much new stuff involved. I think if they keep the initial books coming fairly quickly, get a lot of the legions covered, they will shift a good amount of stuff. Early stages of the heresy all the legions are still very similar, it is only once you start to get the 'proper' chaos legions, for want of a better term, that you will need to put more thought into them. As I said, with only one army list to do all the legions initially, and 90% of the models being used by everyone, I think they are better off getting a book out every three or four months and get as many people on board (pun intended) as soon as possible.

[Psychosplodge]

possibly the problem I see with christmas is you'd need it out by mid november in time for shopping, which seems too close to late september

[Kirsten]

not necessarily, Forgeworld don't have stores, so don't need to worry about getting things on display for christmas shopping. the people that want the book, will get it regardless of when it comes out. the rumour said out by christmas, that doesn't necessarily mean they are releasing it for christmas, the two are likely to be coincidental. I could well see it being jan/feb myself.

[david5th]

They said - Tony Cottrell that is, hopefully next book should be ready for next years Gamesday. They have 5 -6 characters packs they want release first before then, the next on being Loken and Abaddon together. The Abaddon model looks sweet.

[Kirsten]

I would imagine that is one of their games day lies, it wont take them anything like a year to make the next book, and it would only cost them sales delaying it like that. If the next Istvaan is going to be in two books, that would mean two years to get only eleven of the legions done, given their other plans they mentioned for the heresy, that would seem like way too long a time scale.

[Deadlift]

They said - Tony Cottrell that is, hopefully next book should be ready for next years Gamesday. They have 5 -6 characters packs they want release first before then, the next on being Loken and Abaddon together. The Abaddon model looks sweet.

I agree with you on Abaddon, it's such an improvement on the GW one, I know a few folks that will be buying him to use in their chaos armies. The GW is so dated, it's nearly as bad as Logan Grimnar.

[david5th]

I would imagine that is one of their games day lies, it wont take them anything like a year to make the next book, and it would only cost them sales delaying it like that. If the next Istvaan is going to be in two books, that would mean two years to get only eleven of the legions done, given their other plans they mentioned for the heresy, that would seem like way too long a time scale.

It might be a GD lie, all I can relay is what he said.
It will be called "Massacre" and will feature Iron Hands, Salamanders, Night Lords & Word Bearers. It should be out for next years GD, maybe later. They have 2 IA books to do before then + models.

[Bigred]

via Tzeentch's Dark Agent

Mortarion (425)
Primarch of the Death Guard

Stats
WS7-BS5-S6-T7-W7-I5-A5-Ld10-Sv 2+

Unit Type - Infantry (Character)
Unit Character: 1 (Unique)

Wargear
• Barbarian Plate (2+ Armour Save, 4+ Invulnerable Save)
• Silence (S +1, AP2; Melee, Instant Death, Sunder -may re-roll armour penetration rolls, Unwieldy, Two Handed, Sweep Attack -may exchange attacks to attack every model in base contact)
• The Lantern (Range: 18", S8, AP2; Assault 1, Sunder)
• Frag Grenades
• Phospex Bombs (unlimited) - Range: 12"

Special Rules
Primarch

Sire of the Death Guard:
- All Death Guard are Stubborn
- Their frag grenades, frag missiles, and Havoc Launchers have Poisoned (4+)

Shadow of the Reaper:
- Leadership against Fear tests caused by Mortarion suffer a -1 penalty
- If he isn't locked in combat or embarked in a transport in the owning player's shooting phase then Mortarion may be redeployed (not deep strike) by passing a Ld test - must be within 10" of his starting position and may not finish within 3" of an enemy unit - may not be placed in a transport, building, or impassable terrain - if Mortation was attached to a unit then he leaves it - Mortation may declare charges after performing this move but it counts as disordered

Preternatural Resilience
- Mortarion re-rolls failed Toughness tests and "It Will Not Die!" rolls
- Automatically passes any dangerous terrain
- Any weapon that wounds on a flat dice roll (e.g., Poison) will only hurt Mortarion on a roll to wound of 6

- Witch Spite
- Deny the Witch on 4+
- Very Bulky

[daboarder]

BOSS!!

but what's with the designers obsession with fear? Do they read their own rules and realize that its about as naff as a rule can get?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

BLACK BLOW FLY???

I spent freakin' 10 mins typing Mortarion on the Games Day Thread.... Gods damn it all!

[wittdooley]

I agree with you on Abaddon, it's such an improvement on the GW one, I know a few folks that will be buying him to use in their chaos armies. The GW is so dated, it's nearly as bad as Logan Grimnar.

Listen here, sir. Logan isn't THAT bad. And he certainly isn't as bad as:

Ragnar Blackmane
Brother Corbulo
Captain Tycho
Mephiston
Kharn
Lucius

I mean, those models just suck nuts for how cool they "SHOULD" be. I was particuarly disappointed when neither Ragnar or Mephiston were resculpted. However, for as bad as those are, how well has Typhon aged? That is such a great model.

[Mike X]

His stats lines are reasonable, just a little better than a Chapter Master aside from the boosted toughness, wounds, and attacks. I'm shocked to see he's only initiative 5, though.

[wittdooley]

His stats lines are reasonable, just a little better than a Chapter Master aside from the boosted toughness, wounds, and attacks. I'm shocked to see he's only initiative 5, though.

I love how you say they're reasonable and shrug off T7 like it's nothing ;). The I5 surprised me a little bit too, but considering he's one of the 'slower' Primarchs and I5 is still better than most, it made more sense to me. I imagine Vulkan will be a similiar initiative, as will perhas Ferrus and Perturabo as well. My sense is that Russ, Sanguinius, Curze, Corax, and Khan will all be the fastest, with probably Curze being at the top of that list at an I8 or 9 and everyone else falling between. I mean, we already know from the Lightning Towers that Curze is MUCH faster than Rogal Dorn. :D

[david5th]

I love how you say they're reasonable and shrug off T7 like it's nothing ;). The I5 surprised me a little bit too, but considering he's one of the 'slower' Primarchs and I5 is still better than most, it made more sense to me. I imagine Vulkan will be a similiar initiative, as will perhas Ferrus and Perturabo as well. My sense is that Russ, Sanguinius, Curze, Corax, and Khan will all be the fastest, with probably Curze being at the top of that list at an I8 or 9 and everyone else falling between. I mean, we already know from the Lightning Towers that Curze is MUCH faster than Rogal Dorn. :D

If i remember, Fulgrim is both WS8 and I8. He is the next primarch to get a model.

[wittdooley]

Well hot damn. I did forget about Fulgrim and I figured his WS would be insane, but I didn't expect his I to be so high. Seems to me like the 'fast' primarchs (Curze, Corax, Khan) may end up being I10. That's just crazysauce.

So, now out of pure speculation, I'm going to drum up a Russ stat line. Feel free to modify after I'm done. It'll be fun to see how close we can get when they eventually come out.

Leman Russ, the Wolf King
WS8/BS5/S6/T6/W6/I8/A6/LD10/SV2+

His WS could probably be lower, but in everything I've read Russ is one of the best in H2H. I think S6 & T6 is probably appropriate. I think all the Primarchs should be around S6, with maybe Vulkan or Perturabo or Ferrus Manus being S7. W6 Seems like it should be a Primarch Standard, with Nancy boys like Lorgar and maybe Magnus (he's not a nancy boy, though) maybe being W5. I think his attack stack could be lower if he comes with Freki and Geri (which he darn well better) with their stats probably looking something like this:

Frecki & Geri
WS5/BS-/S5/T4/W2/I5/A3/LD7/Sv5+
5+ dodge save, or whatever. Their attacks should probably be rending. 3 Attacks each (mouth, two paws).

He'll probably the option of 2 weapons, the Spear of Russ & His sword (I can't remember the name of it).
I'd imagine the sword would have something about Executioner in it, or have an executioner rule that ignores FNP or It will not Die.

He'll have a good deny the witch save, probably a 3+ based on mortarions 4+
His Sire of the Space Wolves (Wolf King) rule will probably confer counter attack to his legion.
He'll have "super acute" senses :D.

What do ya'll think?!

[Deadlift]

Do Vulkan please :), Sanguinus too :)

I like your Leman Russ, seems about right. I just hope we see Bjorn too.

[greenstuff777]

Any time line on when the mortarion model will be released? sorry if answered I searched everywhere

[wittdooley]

Any time line on when the mortarion model will be released? sorry if answered I searched everywhere

I dont think that's been answered yet Greenstuff. He's part of the first book, so I think we can safely assume sooner rather than later. It would make sense, to me, if they released one every 2 months or so. But what do I know. I'm still waiting for the initial stuff to make the pre-order page on FW.

@ Deadlift--> Working on Vulkan & Sang now. :D

[White Tiger88]

Considering i want the Blood Angels list...i think im going to be waiting a while eh?

[terminus]

Nancy boys like Lorgar

Lorgar got the drop on and whooped Fulgrim like a red-headed step-child, made Horus his ***** psychically, and got even Angron to acknowledge his killing prowess.

The only nancy here, sir, is you.

[wittdooley]

Lorgar got the drop on and whooped Fulgrim like a red-headed step-child, made Horus his ***** psychically, and got even Angron to acknowledge his killing prowess.

The only nancy here, sir, is you.

If not for Curze, Lorgar would be dead, lying in a pool of his own piss, ****, and tears. Fulcrum was hardly Fulgrim when Lorgar "got the drop" on him, and Lorgar couldn't touch Horus without the warps influence. I still contend that Lorgar is a little beeyatch.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yeah... Corax kinda beat the snot out of Lorgar, and now that Curze isn't around (SPOILERS?!?!!) he can do so again. :p

[Lord General Xi Lutor]

Yeah... Corax kinda beat the snot out of Lorgar, and now that Curze isn't around (SPOILERS?!?!!) he can do so again. :p

Corax LET HIM LIVE since he wasn't willing to sacrifice his Legion for one head... Well, two, since he would have killed the **** outta Curze, too.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I doubt he would have killed Curze, isn't there a bit where Corax admits that Curze would win?

[Vangrail]

When will every thing be able to be released to the public to buy? also I wonder what Ferrus manus rules will be hmmm
'

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Heresy Volume 1 and Angron should be in the next two weeks apparently.

[Bigred]

I'd like a listing of the units in the FOC for the default Legion army list please.

No rules, just each section HQ, ELITES, etc... and what units are available in each.

Pretty please and thank you.

-Larry

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

For you Larry, anything matey.
Do you want an explanation of what each unit is?


I'll get it done when I get home. (in about 2 hours)

[jonsgot]

Just noticed Forge world have a new page on their site http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy
(http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

HQ
Legion Praetor (Chapter Master)

Legion Centurion (Captain)
Which can also be upgraded to be a:
Chaplain
Master of Signal
Legion Champion
Vigilator
Librarian
Forge Lord
Primus Medicae
Siege Breaker
Moritat

Legion Command Squad

Elites
Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (higher leadership, more attacks)

Legion Destroyer Squad (dual pistol wielding badazzes)

Legion Terminator Squad (can be either regular or Cataphractii)

Techmarine Covenant

Apothercarion Detachment

Legion Dreadnought Talon

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery

Troops
Legion Tactical Squad (bolters, bolters, bolters, bolters)

Legion Assault Squad

Legion Breacher Siege Squad (dudes with loads of anti-emplacement weapons)

Legion Tactical Support Squad (all the heavy/special weapons here please)

Legion Reconnaissance Squad (can be in scout armour, but are Legionnaires, BS 4 snipers!)

Dedicated Transport
Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier

Legion Drop Pod

Fast Attack
Legion Seeker Squad (Sternguard)

Legion Outrider Squad (Bikers)

Legion Attack Bike Squadron

Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron

Legion Land Speeder Squadron

Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship

Heavy Support
Legion Heavy Support Squad (all the Heavy Weapons)

Legion Predator Strike Armour Squadron

Legion Land Raider Battle Squadron (Phobos, Proteus, Achilles)

0-1 Legion Artillery Tank Squadron (Basilisk, Medusa, Whirlwind)

Legion Vindicator

Legion Spartan Assault Tank

Legion Caestus Assault Ram



FOC

Compulsory
1 HQ

2 Troops

Optional
2 HQ

4 Troops

4 Elites

3 Fast Attack

3 Heavy Support

1 Fortification

1 Lord of War (at 2000 points or more)

1 Allied Detachment (same as 6th edition)

[Deadlift]

Thanks TDA:)

[Kirsten]

looks fantastic, can't wait to get my hands on the book

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

No worries mateys! I'm your moderator for a reason! :D

Does anyone have any questiones?!

[Deadlift]

Does anyone have any questiones?!

What's your favourite colour ?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Purple. :p

[MyHandisIron]

Has anything been mentioned as to when the other primarchs in the book will be released?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

They're doing them in Legion blocks, release the characters from each before moving to the next one.

Fulgrim is next, then Mortarion.

Horus is going to be in the last book for some reason...

[MyHandisIron]

Hmm im hoping Fulgrims model is released soon. So long as his model isnt him with a ridiculous amount of mirrors surrounding him.

Not sure if my savings account is as excited as I am though.:rolleyes:

Makes sense for Horus I guess, I wasn't sure if they were going to do a before and after model with him for when he was still loyal.

[Spikey McTorture]

No worries mateys! I'm your moderator for a reason! :D

Does anyone have any questiones?!

Do you know if contemptor dreads can be taken in a talon? 2 kheres assault cannons each, Dakka Dakka!

[Kirsten]

Do you know if contemptor dreads can be taken in a talon? 2 kheres assault cannons each, Dakka Dakka!

yes

[Spikey McTorture]

Thanks, looks like I'm buying 3 dreads, all with kheres assault cannons

[Kirsten]

definitely tempting, not overly fussed by the contemptor model personally though. it is nice and all, just not nice enough for me to shell out that kind of money for.

[zerorunner]

Legion Terminator Squad (can be either regular or Cataphractii)

Where do the Tartaros pattern fit into this?

[SonsOfDorn231]

I'm pretty sure I'm ready to drop some cabage for a Heresy army. The book sounds great. The army list are going to be fun and finally something to be excited about. The Primarch Angron is a awesome looking model so I can't wait to see what comes next.

[SonsOfDorn231]

See Horus should be closer. That drives me nuts when they do that.

[Spikey McTorture]

See Horus should be closer. That drives me nuts when they do that.

I disagree, Mortarion should be before Fulgrim :p

[david5th]

Thanks TDA for the info.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

No worries!

@zerorunner - The Tartaros pattern Terminators are counted as regular Terminators.

[Popsical]

Hi, just wondering if the points for the vehicles are the same as the 40k variety?
Marines ive heard are 10pts each. That seems very cheap.
Is this a seperate game to 40k or merely different pointed?
Cheers.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Hmmm... Plays using 40k rules, pointing seems the same... I don't notice any differences, no.

[thingol]

Does anyone have any questiones?!

What Mechanicum units are in the book, if any? There was some mention of robots...

[XVRogue]

No worries!

@zerorunner - The Tartaros pattern Terminators are counted as regular Terminators.

Except Tartaros pattern Terminators can sweeping assault, unlike normal Terminators.

[XVRogue]

Hi, just wondering if the points for the vehicles are the same as the 40k variety?
Marines ive heard are 10pts each. That seems very cheap.
Is this a seperate game to 40k or merely different pointed?
Cheers.

Only additional Marines are 10 points each, and that's excluding if they take the upgrade for a CCW.

It's 150 points for the first 10 marines, who come with Bolter / Bolt Pistol, and don't have ATSKNF.

Instead, Legion Astartes (Legion Name) provides the universal bonus of being able to ATTEMPT to regroup regardless of casualties.

It does not prevent you from being caught in a sweeping advance for instance. You also don't operate as normal the turn you rally, instead you're taking snap shots etc. Imagine playing guard, without commissars or orders, but you're in power armor.

Frankly, at 15 points each for the initial 10 you feel really ripped off.

The book redeems itself when you take larger and larger squads, because only then do you start to get some "efficient" point costs in comparison to what you could do with generic Tactical Marines, let alone Grey Hunters.

Add to this that Tactical Squads cannot take special weapons of any kind and you begin to get an idea for the ups and downs of the book.

Granted, you can take support squads that have every model but the sergeant wielding (the same) special weapon (so hypothetically 9 plasmaguns, etc), but you pay 15 points per gun on 15 point marines which again makes it very inefficient, just slightly beneficial to have a meltahunter team etc that supports a tactical squad.

To be honest, the book is amazing (stunning in many ways), but the Legion list is incredibly underwhelming and gets stomped on by standard 40k codex lists with absolute ease.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Except Tartaros pattern Terminators can sweeping assault, unlike normal Terminators.

I don't think so in the Heresy, I'll have to check.

@thingol, yes, there is a Mechanicum addendum at the back, including a Tech Priest.

[XVRogue]

I don't think so in the Heresy, I'll have to check.

@thingol, yes, there is a Mechanicum addendum at the back, including a Tech Priest.

I could be wrong, but I noticed that under its description of being 2+/5++ it does not stipulate that models in it cannot sweeping advance.

Where as for Cataphractii it says 2+/4++, Slow and Purposeful and does specifically say they can't sweeping advance.

[Popsical]

Only additional Marines are 10 points each, and that's excluding if they take the upgrade for a CCW.

It's 150 points for the first 10 marines, who come with Bolter / Bolt Pistol, and don't have ATSKNF.

Instead, Legion Astartes (Legion Name) provides the universal bonus of being able to ATTEMPT to regroup regardless of casualties.

It does not prevent you from being caught in a sweeping advance for instance. You also don't operate as normal the turn you rally, instead you're taking snap shots etc. Imagine playing guard, without commissars or orders, but you're in power armor.

Frankly, at 15 points each for the initial 10 you feel really ripped off.

The book redeems itself when you take larger and larger squads, because only then do you start to get some "efficient" point costs in comparison to what you could do with generic Tactical Marines, let alone Grey Hunters.

Add to this that Tactical Squads cannot take special weapons of any kind and you begin to get an idea for the ups and downs of the book.

Granted, you can take support squads that have every model but the sergeant wielding (the same) special weapon (so hypothetically 9 plasmaguns, etc), but you pay 15 points per gun on 15 point marines which again makes it very inefficient, just slightly beneficial to have a meltahunter team etc that supports a tactical squad.

To be honest, the book is amazing (stunning in many ways), but the Legion list is incredibly underwhelming and gets stomped on by standard 40k codex lists with absolute ease.

Thanks very much, very informative. Im gonna end up with a legion army of 2500... one day

.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

So normal terminators can sweeping assault then?

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

If it just omits the "Cannot Sweeping Assault" line, I'd say it's a copy/paste error. Forgeworld has awful, awful, awful proofreading. They reference experimental rules that no longer exist, the Webway Portal build for Corsairs was invalidated until the first FaQ since they forgot to put it in etc.

If it was intentional, they'd make an effort to point it out since anyone who buys this is probably pretty used to Terminators and would assume Terminator Armour was unchanged. There'd be a box sayin' "Note: Great Crusade-era Terminator Armour was much more advanced blablabla can Sweeping Advance unlike m41 Terminator Armour."

[Mr Mystery]

Pp 237.

Relentless, Bulky, not able to make Sweeping Advances.

That'll be £5 please!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Rev, it wasn't that they forgot to put in the Webway Portal, it's that they let you take 2 Jet Packs. :D
Which is hilarious.

No Mystery!

[Mr Mystery]

Awwwwwwwwwww!!!

But I'm bigger than you! Time for some cyber bullying.. GIVE US YER SWEETS!

[XVRogue]

Pp 237.

Relentless, Bulky, not able to make Sweeping Advances.

That'll be £5 please!

I stand corrected. My bad.

So then yeah, Tartaros are just normal terminators, Cataphractii are more armoured (better invulnerable save) but slow and purposeful.

To the guy asking about Legion marines, there's the Tactical Squad page posted up on faet212 and the entire troop section is floating around the internet.

Having played 2 games a day all week though, I can say that the different Legions are characterful and fight interestingly against one another.

The Legion specific special rules are disappointing. Since it's on the FW website now, I see no reason why I can't quote it as an example:

Berserker Violence: unit gains Furious Charge after it wipes out or breaks a squad in close combat for the rest of the game.
Bloodlust: if the unit loses combat, and its morale check and should be breaking and running, you roll a d6. On a 1 you count as passing your morale check and gain rage for the rest of the game.


If Bloodlust was if you wipe out a squad/break them, you roll a d6 and on a 6 gain rage (in addition to furious charge), and if you lose combat you automatically (or on a 2+) gain rage, I think it'd be a lot better.

In the end your world eaters just play the same as the other legions with the difference coming from their unique fast attack infantry option and some of their (fairly crappy) wargear.

Oh, they get chainaxes for free provided that it's modeled appropriately, so they're AP5 instead of -, which is nice... but when you look at Space Wolves or Blood Angels (in the current rules) it's left me with a lot of "?????"

At least in my gaming group, having played games from 1500 to 2500 the Legion list gets trounced unless it abuses the all Storm Eagle or all Spartan list options :/

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Awwwwwwwwwww!!!

But I'm bigger than you! Time for some cyber bullying.. GIVE US YER SWEETS!

I just read that in your accent. :p

MUHUHAHAHAHA!

[Mr Mystery]

Chain axes are AP4.....and NOT unwieldy!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

They're mental! Freakin' love the Eaters.

[XVRogue]

Chain axes are AP4.....and NOT unwieldy!

Chainaxe is as user, 5

excoriator is +1 str, ap 3, two handed, shred

twin blades are as usuer, ap 5, +1 attack, rending

barb hook lash is as user, ap 5, fleshbane

and they have a hammer that's two handed and ap 5 with +1 strength and either + or - 1 initiative, can't remember.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

+1 Initiative.

[Mr Mystery]

Pp 234

Str as user, AP4, Melee

Though it may be different elsewhere. Which page you on?

P.s. sorry if it seems I'm being a rules lawyering arse. Just checking my book. Hard to tell who had a copy, and who is just going on rumours!

[wittdooley]

So just to be clear, Legion Specific rules are in this book ONLY for World Eaters, Death Guard, Sons of Horus, and Emperor's Children, correct?

[Mr Mystery]

Quite so!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yes.

@ Mystery, they gain Furious Charge if they win combat.

[XVRogue]

Pp 234

Str as user, AP4, Melee

Though it may be different elsewhere. Which page you on?

P.s. sorry if it seems I'm being a rules lawyering arse. Just checking my book. Hard to tell who had a copy, and who is just going on rumours!

I'm going from memory. I am playing Sons of Horus and my buddy is using World Eaters. He's been playing them AP5. I'll let him know that his chainaxes are better than the gladiator weapons... which is stupid

[XVRogue]

Yes.

@ Mystery, they gain Furious Charge if they win combat.

I still feel like rage should be easier to acquire in combat.

The Charcaradons have an easier time picking it up than the World Eaters and they're descendants of the Raven Guard...

[Mr Mystery]

To be fair, this is pre-wibble wibble SKULLS World Eaters!

[XVRogue]

To be fair, this is pre-wibble wibble SKULLS World Eaters!

I guess.

Overall I just don't feel the difference in the gene seed. I feel the difference in playstyle from the use of their legion specific units, and then self imposed restrictions (like no jump troops for Death Guard, even though the blurb specifically says that the Death Guard have enough in the Legion that if you wanted to do a whole army of them it would still be okay), just not in their fundamental rules.

That and the lack of ATSKNF is just absolutely brutal. I thought the emperor created the space marines to know no fear at their conception, not after horus threw a tantrum.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

They're AP 5.... But they have RENDING.

Also, I've written 1k of World Eaters. :D

[Kirsten]

they didn't need the hypno indoctrination pre heresy, they already felt no fear, they had a hundred thousand friends :P

[Mr Mystery]

110,000 for Emperors Children.....

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Legion Champion, Bolt Pistol, Melta Bombs, Refractor Field, Master-crafted Excoriator Chainaxe
9 Destroyers, Melta Bombs, Rhino, Dozer Blade
16 Tactical Marines with Bolt Pistols, Chainaxes and Melta Bombs on the Sergeant
16 Tactical Marines with Bolt Pistols, Chainaxes and Melta Bombs on the Sergeant
Vindicator, Laser Destroyer Array, Dozer Blade, Auxiliary Drive

[Mr Mystery]

I totally missed the laser destroyer upgrade! But that is tempting for my Emperors Children. A fittingly precise weapon....

[wittdooley]

Moritat, 2 Bolt Pistols, Melta Bombs, Refractor Field, Excoriator Chainaxe
9 Destroyers, Melta Bombs, Rhino, Dozer Blade
16 Tactical Marines with Bolt Pistols, Chainaxes and Melta Bombs on the Sergeant
16 Tactical Marines with Bolt Pistols, Chainaxes and Melta Bombs on the Sergeant
Vindicator, Laser Destroyer Array, Dozer Blade, Auxiliary Drive



1. Do tacticals get bolters too?
2. What are Destroyers?
3. What does a Laser Array do?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

1. I swapped them for Chainaxes. But you CAN have all three...
2. Destoyers are Akimbo Bolt Pistol guys, like the Moritat.
3. 36" Strength 9 AP 1 Ordnance 1, Twin-linked

[Mr Mystery]

Destroyers have filthy, naughty, frowned-upon-by-the-legions weapons...

Like Rad Missiles......

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

RADICAL DOOOD. :p

I do loves Destroyers.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I made a boo-boo. Moritats cannot be a compulsory HQ choice... DAMN IT ALL.

[Spikey McTorture]

Do any of you know what the death guard Legiones Astartes rule is, and if the death guard have any restrictions? I'm making my order, and ordering my book with my army, so I'd like to know if I'm ordering the right things. Much obliged if anyone could tell me.

[Mr Mystery]

But they do get chain fire......

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yeah. I made him a Legion Champion instead. :p

EDIT: I call him: Commandant Askral Krule, the Headtaker's Vengeance, the Death Master, Lord of Destruction.
He's Kharn's 2nd in Command.

[Mr Mystery]

You forgot the 'Big Girl's Blouse' honorific in his title.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Hahahaha!

Still reading it in your accent. :D

[Mr Mystery]

Or perhaps 'Simpering great nancy'

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Surely those two titles would be more applicable to the Emperor's Children? :p

[Mr Mystery]

Nah. We're not the ones with the repressed jock attitude.

Here's another one for you. 'Mincing little whoopsie'

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Nope, won't bite. :p

[Mr Mystery]

I bet Angron jumps puddles...

But yes. Destroyers are one of my favourite squads. They just don't suit my idea of the Emperors Children!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Nope. I think your guys are about precise shots. I think Recon Squads would be good for them.

Destroyers are good for me though, and definitely my favourite unit in the standard list. Otherwise I'd go with Rampager Squads.

[XVRogue]

Nope. I think your guys are about precise shots. I think Recon Squads would be good for them.

Destroyers are good for me though, and definitely my favourite unit in the standard list. Otherwise I'd go with Rampager Squads.

Why take an excoriator chainaxe instead of a lightning claw? +1 strength isn't worth unwieldy, IMO

[Spikey McTorture]

Why take an excoriator chainaxe instead of a lightning claw? +1 strength isn't worth unwieldy, IMO

Maybe if you want to play a fluffy army?

[XVRogue]

Maybe if you want to play a fluffy army?

Oh for sure, that's definitely a possibility.

I certainly see the push in the book for that "fluff style" of play.

I was just asking. It wasn't meant to seem scathing or rhetorical. I wanted his opinion.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Because SKULLS?!?!?!?!

I want a World Eater with a giant freakin' axe. That's a giant freakin' axe. WIN FOR ALL.

[XVRogue]

Because SKULLS?!?!?!?!

I want a World Eater with a giant freakin' axe. That's a giant freakin' axe. WIN FOR ALL.

I like a power axe more though. You give up shred but gain ap2 and 1 more attack :/

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I like a power axe more though. You give up shred but gain ap2 and 1 more attack :/

Wouldn't match the theme of the army that I'm going for, I can see the obvious benefit conferred by a Power Axe, but an Excoriator Chainaxe is new and shiny, and I would like to see how it performs. Especially when you combine Master-Crafted with Shred. He's also WS 6 I'd hasten to add, so he's quite the combat king. :)

[Spikey McTorture]

Hey TDA, do you have a copy of the book?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yes Spikey, how may I be of assistance?

[Spikey McTorture]

Do you know anything about the death guard in the book, I'm looking to make my order, book and models (so I don't have to pay shipping). And I don't want to buy anything the death guard can't take, and would rather take things that are buffed. Do you know their legion specific rule, and what units they can't take? It would be a big help if you could tell me :).

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Remorseless - Immune to Fear, auto-pass pinning checks
Sons of Barbarus - Re-roll failed Dangerous terrain for swamp, mud, and toxic sludge
Intractable - When making sweeping advance moves you -1 to distance

Chem Munitions - Any flame based weapon can upgrade to this at no points cost, they gain shred and gets hot!
All flame based weapons within the squad (or on the vehicle) upgrade to this if you take it

Power Scythes may be taken at the same points cost as a Power Fist, and be given to anyone who can normally take a Power Fist.

They have no restrictions other than not being able to take the other Legion specific units.

[Spikey McTorture]

Thanks a lot, and sorry to ask again, but do the death guard have a legion specific unit, and if they do what is it? You've been a really big help :)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

No worries!

They're called Deathshroud Terminators, they're armed with Power Scythes and Hand Flamers (loaded with chem munitions)
90 points for 2 guys, may buy up to 8 more guys at 40 points each
They count as scoring units. They are always a bodyguard for Mortarion. (should Mortarion be present) They have 2 wounds each.

[Spikey McTorture]

Thanks, can't wait to get my hands on that book now :D

[CarlVictus]

Yes Spikey, how may I be of assistance?

Would you be able to post the Sons of Horus legion rules and/or Justaerin rules? Mostly just the Legion though.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Oh hell yeah! Spikey, it's worth EVERY penny I paid for it.

Mr Mystery did not pay for it, for he is a bad man.
He did however score more Resin crack, epic win!

Sure Carl, give me a moment.

[CarlVictus]

Oh hell yeah! Spikey, it's worth EVERY penny I paid for it.

Mr Mystery did not pay for it, for he is a bad man.
He did however score more Resin crack, epic win!

Sure Carl, give me a moment.

Thanks! I made an account just to ask haha

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

The Edge of the Spear - Units held in reserve (and any vehicles) may re-roll reserve rolls of a 1.
Merciless Fighters - If the number of Sons of Horus infantry models* in a particular combat is greater than the enemy during Initiative Step 1, each model who has already fought may make another attack
*Count Bulky models as 2 on either side, and count Very Bulky as 3
Bitter Pride - You cannot benefit from allied Warlord Traits or Leadership values

Justaerin - 225 points
3 guys (up to 7 for 45 each)
Cataphractii Armour
Combi-Bolter
Power Weapon

Can take an assortment of weapons

Are also scoring units, bodyguards for Horus, only have 1 wound each, WS 5 though.
They have stubborn and furious charge too.

Quite nice.

[CarlVictus]

The Edge of the Spear - Units held in reserve (and any vehicles) may re-roll reserve rolls of a 1.
Merciless Fighters - If the number of Sons of Horus infantry models* in a particular combat is greater than the enemy during Initiative Step 1, each model who has already fought may make another attack
*Count Bulky models as 2 on either side, and count Very Bulky as 3
Bitter Pride - You cannot benefit from allied Warlord Traits or Leadership values

Justaerin - 225 points
3 guys (up to 7 for 45 each)
Cataphractii Armour
Combi-Bolter
Power Weapon

Can take an assortment of weapons

Are also scoring units, bodyguards for Horus, only have 1 wound each, WS 5 though.
They have stubborn and furious charge too.

Quite nice.

That's awesome.

Do you pay points for the Rites of battle?

I heard there was 1 that swaps rhinos to Storm Eagles, another that swaps Rhinos to Drop Pods, etc.

What are they and do they cost anything?

Lemme know if im bugging you

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

It's fine man, that's why I'm a mod. :D

You do not pay any points, certain characters have fixed Rites of War, and Praetors get to choose one at the start of a battle (Chapter Master dudes)

There are 4 for your Praetor to choose from:
Orbital Assault
- You may take Drop Pods instead of Rhinos
- Terminators gain Deep Strike
- You must deploy via Deep Strike, any units that can't cannot be taken
- You cannot take a fortification

Armoured Spearhead
- Any units that can take a Rhino can take either a Land Raider Phobos, or a Land Raider Proteus
- Tank Shocks add an additional -1 Ld
- Units must deploy inside their dedicated transport
- Should all tanks be destroyed then the opponent gets an extra victory point (as per secondary objective)
- You may not take fortifications

Angel's Wrath
- Any model with a Jump Pack gains hit and run
- Any unit that can take a Rhino may take a Stormeagle
- Only units with Jump Infantry, Skimmer, Jetbike, or Infantry inside Skimmers or Flyers may be taken
- You may not take a Fortification

Pride of the Legion
- Terminators and Veterans are troops and must fill the compulsory troops selections
- Command Squad may take a Proteus or Phobos Land Raider
- Should all Veterans and Terminators be destroyed then the opponent gains a victory point
- You cannot take allies


Right, I'm going to bed, later hombres!

[CarlVictus]

It's fine man, that's why I'm a mod. :D
Angel's Wrath
- Any model with a Jump Pack gains hit and run
- Any unit that can take a Rhino may take a Stormeagle
- Only units with Jump Infantry, Skimmer, Jetbike, or Infantry inside Skimmers or Flyers may be taken
- You may not take a Fortification


I know you're asleep, so I'll just leave this here for tomorrow or for anyone else with the book.

Does this in some way influence how your Storm Eagles enter the game from reserve?

If all your infantry are in Storm Eagles, and are therefore all forced into reserve until Turn 2, would you still lose?

ergo, you have to start with landspeeders and/or jump troops on the board, or can everything be Eagled?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

To prevent auto-loss I'd imagine that you'd have to put something on the board.

As for altering reserves? Doesn't say it there but it there may be alterations elsewhere.

[david5th]

TDA, as i maybe starting a HH World Eaters army, how CC are the World Eaters in terms of squads,war gear etc?

I have ordered the book but you have become a veritable source of knowledge. :)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

A veritable smorgasbord of knowledge! :D

They only have 1 unique squad, called the Rampagers, and oh boy, do they love combat! :D
They're all characters and can be armed with a SHED load of CC weapons.

Other than that, it's just how CC you want to make them.
As you can see by my 1k army I don't really have a lot of covering fire to support the WE advance, it increases at 2k. :D

There is also the undisputable fact of... I'M IN YOUR FACE. :p

[Kirsten]

liking the sound of the list and costs all in all, I think it would be interesting to play against 40k armies. 150pts for ten tactical marines without ATSKNF makes them worse in ten man units than 40k marines, but then cheaper additional models. If they other squads follow similar patterns I think they could be balanced quite well.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

HOWEVER.
They may always rally. So it's not all bad.

[Mr Mystery]

In regards to army style, this really is open ended. There's no restrictions save the FoC and your own preference.

Playing World Eaters doesn't restrict you to a close combat army. And not should it. The Legiones Astartes were vast and well rounded at the time of the Heresy. Whilst you can reflect their eventual tactics, you can also feel everything in between. I find this only right and proper!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Indeed Mystery. Hence why in larger pointed games my World Eaters gain a LOAD of guns. :D

[Kirsten]

HOWEVER.
They may always rally. So it's not all bad.

certainly, but you don'tget the free rally, and you can be sweeping advanced. I think it sounds like a great list, some nice differences, and nothing overpowered. Marines could have been made better in an army book designed to fight other marines, because it wouldn't matter when everyone uses the same basic list, but they have obviously taken their time and chosen the alterations well. I would have no concerns fielding a legion against my regular eldar opponent.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I'm going to be fielding the 8th against several 40k armies. :D
See how they fare.

[Mr Mystery]

For instance, my Emperors Children are starting out as a paragon representation of their Legion. Troops will be Assault Squads, Veteran Tactical Squads. Elites are Cataphractii Terminators. Support will be a Dreadnought talon, consisting of three Relic Comtemptors. As I'm using last years limited captain for my HQ, with the intention of converting a Moritat for a little gun play, courtesy of two Velkite pistols. Pew pew pew!!!

Oh, and don't think this has been mentioned, but standard Terminators are always scoring units. Which is nice!!

[Kirsten]

yeah should be interesting. I want to field legion iron warriors against me friend's chaos thousand sons, see if old legion beats new legion :P

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

For instance, my Emperors Children are starting out as a paragon representation of their Legion. Troops will be Assault Squads, Veteran Tactical Squads. Elites are Cataphractii Terminators. Support will be a Dreadnought talon, consisting of three Relic Comtemptors. As I'm using last years limited captain for my HQ, with the intention of converting a Moritat for a little gun play, courtesy of two Velkite pistols. Pew pew pew!!!

Oh, and don't think this has been mentioned, but standard Terminators are always scoring units. Which is nice!!

Oh nice! Trying to think of how I'll build Askral. I want a fur cloak and a dirty big chainaxe, I've had a few ideas.


yeah should be interesting. I want to field legion iron warriors against me friend's chaos thousand sons, see if old legion beats new legion :P

In an epic clash to the death!

[Kirsten]

easy to explain when you live in the warp too, chaos did it :P
40ks answer to everything, if in doubt, chaos did it.

[Mr Mystery]

For those wondering....

Moritat's get two bolt pistols. And they can chain fire. Which means keep blasting until you miss. And at BS5, that's a LOT of Dakka!

Velkite weapons cause an additional hit for every unsaved wound they cause, but those don't generate extra hits.

Time for me to roll some dice!! So let's say I fancy zapping some Orks... I shall now roll my dice.

Bah. Try that again. First roll was snake eyes!!

Right. 16 hits. 3's to kill! First batch slots 7. Extra hits bag 5 more. Not bad!

[eldargal]

Trying to decide whether it being 30k means I can play marines without breaking my 'no playing with non xenos armies in 40k' rule.:rolleyes: If so I think I'll start some loyalist Emperors Children.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

easy to explain when you live in the warp too, chaos did it :P
40ks answer to everything, if in doubt, chaos did it.

That's my answer to things IRL too. :D


For those wondering....

Moritat's get two bolt pistols. And they can chain fire. Which means keep blasting until you miss. And at BS5, that's a LOT of Dakka!

Velkite weapons cause an additional hit for every unsaved wound they cause, but those don't generate extra hits.

Time for me to roll some dice!! So let's say I fancy zapping some Orks... I shall now roll my dice.

Bah. Try that again. First roll was snake eyes!!

Right. 16 hits. 3's to kill! First batch slots 7. Extra hits bag 5 more. Not bad!

Hell yes! The Moritat is my favourite character in the book, he is all kinds of fantastic. :D
Take a Psyker and re-roll misses. Trollolololol.

@EG - it sure does! I regard them as two separate entities, get on those EC. :p

[Kirsten]

I just want the iron warriors book. none of those four rites of battle interest me, I want something with more guns and fortifications. I was looking forward to seeing what the heresy blood angels would be like, no black rage with sanguinius still being alive, but someone has just informed me that the latest horus heresy novel kills that fluff and gives them black rage anyway...

[CarlVictus]

Oh nice! Trying to think of how I'll build Askral. I want a fur cloak and a dirty big chainaxe, I've had a few ideas.


Hey TDA, I heard Garviel and Abaddon are in this book as special characters.

If They are, what are their special rules? I assume their stats are reasonable. I'm curious about wargear and special rules, or changes they make to the list.

Me love you so long time

[CarlVictus]

I just want the iron warriors book. none of those four rites of battle interest me, I want something with more guns and fortifications. I was looking forward to seeing what the heresy blood angels would be like, no black rage with sanguinius still being alive, but someone has just informed me that the latest horus heresy novel kills that fluff and gives them black rage anyway...

In the latest book they talk about a handful of blood angels over the centuries of the great crusade having fallen to the black rage. It's not like they have Death Company units.

Other things happen later in the story, but I won't spoil it.

Just don't get the wrong idea about Fear to Tread and interpret their Pre-Heresy selves operating even remotely similar to post Sanguinius death.

[Spikey McTorture]

TDA, Mr. Mystery, or anyone else who would happen to have a copy of the book. Do you know the points cost of a jet bike and the cost of their upgrades?

[Mr Mystery]

Up the pub, and thus away from book, but I think they're 40 each. Which is nice.

[AfroCampbell]

Hay guys would anyone tell me the legion-specific rules for Emperor's Children? plus maybe their special characters?? and if you are feeling real kind their unique units?

[Mr Mystery]

Will do.

But likely tomorrow morning. I'm a rad drunk right now....

[CarlVictus]

Will do.

But likely tomorrow morning. I'm a rad drunk right now....

Let's hope you sober up or TDA gets back so we can get the SoH special characters too ^___^!!!!!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

@ Mystery, we're typing it all out aren't we? Gods damn it all.

I require sleep.

[CarlVictus]

@ Mystery, we're typing it all out aren't we? Gods damn it all.

I require sleep.

I'll make a charitable donation to your paypal for the Praetor / SoH special character rules... trying to make a list so I can place 1 order to FW including the book.

Otherwise I'll have to pay postage twice :S

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

A charitable donation? I'm listening. :D

[I108]

I already ordered one... hoping for some nice mechanicus content! (and everything else too!) they made it too small to read the text on the FW page, tease!

[CarlVictus]

I already ordered one... hoping for some nice mechanicus content! (and everything else too!) they made it too small to read the text on the FW page, tease!

I was able to transcribe the World Eaters rules.

[Mr Mystery]

I need moar beers.

[White Tiger88]

Wait.....can a Legion army list ally with Imperial guard or DKOK.........(I have a very mean idea suddenly)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I need more....... something.

[Mr Mystery]

Nope. Allies Matrix is Legion and Legion only.

[CarlVictus]

Nope. Allies Matrix is Legion and Legion only.

Two questions:

1) Are you able to Ally with your own Legion (the only reason I ask is because)

2) Can you take a different Rite of Battle for your allied detachment?

Thus having a ground force, with a drop pod support element, etc

[Mr Mystery]

Allies are as per 40k, so no allying with yourself.

Rites of Battle are 1 per 2,000 points.

[CarlVictus]

Allies are as per 40k, so no allying with yourself.

Rites of Battle are 1 per 2,000 points.

or fraction there of?

At 1,850 you can have 1 Rite?

[Mr Mystery]

Hold on. Got it wrong. It's one Master of the Legion (so therefore a Legion Preator) per 1,000 points of the force.

However you can only select a single Rite of War regardless. And you don't have to have any if you so wish.

[CarlVictus]

Hold on. Got it wrong. It's one Master of the Legion (so therefore a Legion Preator) per 1,000 points of the force.

However you can only select a single Rite of War regardless. And you don't have to have any if you so wish.

The Legion list is certainly interesting, but it's a shame how narrow in scope something so vast rapidly becomes.

A lot of "modern" 40k armies incorporate a lot of different elements working in conjunction, but the Legion list seems tailored to doing one thing and just hammering it down the enemy's throat and hoping for the best, heh. Very 1 dimensional.

Can each detachment have a different Rite though? Or do they function like Warlord Traits?

[Mr Mystery]

As per Warlord traits I think.

From what I've read it doesn't mention detachments and Rites of War.

But do remember, the Rites are optional upgrades and are there primarily to allow you to theme your force, rather than for those of the WAAC persuasion.

[CarlVictus]

As per Warlord traits I think.

From what I've read it doesn't mention detachments and Rites of War.

But do remember, the Rites are optional upgrades and are there primarily to allow you to theme your force, rather than for those of the WAAC persuasion.

Oh, not trying to necessarily WAAC.

Just saying that if you want tactical squads in rhinos, and drop pods, with a 40k list you can do that.

If you want any drop pods at all in a Legion list the entire army needs to be in drop pods.

At first I thought maybe your allied detachment could be "pure drop pod" so that it compliments your main force, but you're saying that's out.

Then I'm wondering if a second detachment, in larger games can be different, to once again have a complimentary force.

Instead, and I'm not necessarily complaining, just looking to understand the methos, is that your Legion list is fluff driven and incredibly 1 dimensional and rather than try to embrace list diversity you just do one thing, really well, and try to club your enemy with it. Which is space-mariney I guess.

[Mr Mystery]

Its more about representing how a Legion fights.

For instance, the modern Chapter is 1,000 (or thereabouts) strong. Their modern role is an alpha strike against the enemies command. Get in, kill everything, crash on to the next zone.

A legion however was intended, and quite capable, of bringing entire systems into compliance. The Drop Pod army would just be the first wave, intended to establish the beach head. This is a very different form of warfare we're looking at. They didn't need a particular force to be that flexible, as even a small fleet would likely consist of an entire modern day Chapter, and all that entails!

[CarlVictus]

Its more about representing how a Legion fights.

For instance, the modern Chapter is 1,000 (or thereabouts) strong. Their modern role is an alpha strike against the enemies command. Get in, kill everything, crash on to the next zone.

A legion however was intended, and quite capable, of bringing entire systems into compliance. The Drop Pod army would just be the first wave, intended to establish the beach head. This is a very different form of warfare we're looking at. They didn't need a particular force to be that flexible, as even a small fleet would likely consist of an entire modern day Chapter, and all that entails!

Yeah. You make a really good point.

Battles in 40k (or 30k in this instance) are not "wars," they are engagements. A small piece of what would a larger conflict. Either because it is ongoing after your session ends, or because you are one element of the assumed many that are going on.

It's easy to fall into the trap that your individual game just brought the entire planet or system into compliance, but really (especially when you think of how many models are being used), it was just a pitched battle of sorts.

So in this sense, it makes a lot of sense to utilize the Rites as they're written. Your all drop pod force is the first wave, win or lose the game, there should be a second game now that your forces have established a beach head where they load up rhinos and razorbacks brought down by Stormbirds and Thunderhawks to push forward, etc.

I appreciate your input as it helped me get a much better perspective on the whole thing.

[AfroCampbell]

Soooo EC special Characters??? Lucius ?? any others?? legion rules??

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Lucius isn't in it. Nope.

There's Fulgrim, Palatine Blades, Ancient Rylanor, and Saul Tarvitz.

[AfroCampbell]

in your opinions which army gets best bonuses?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I can't answer that without bias. Being a fan of the World Eaters...

[AfroCampbell]

LOL awesome, so what special unique rules do each army get then???

[Joe Fixit]

LOL awesome, so what special unique rules do each army get then???

At this rate, the poor guys going to regurgitate the whole book for the forums, don't we want a few surprises when we get our copy's ?

[AfroCampbell]

lol sorry, yea true, although for many of us poor poor cheap students, it may be a very long time before we do get our copies...... :(

[Mr Mystery]

Kidney. You only need one. And modern dialysis is highly efficient......

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

This is true. Plus, I've listed most of the Legion rules, if not all of them, by now.

[MyHandisIron]

For those of us whose books are on the way or dont have them are very thankful lol

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Thanks man.

[White Tiger88]

So any idea when the Deathguard Shoulder pads, Mortarion & CATAPHRACTII TERMINATOR stuff will be up for sale?

[CarlVictus]

So any idea when the Deathguard Shoulder pads, Mortarion & CATAPHRACTII TERMINATOR stuff will be up for sale?

Really soon, since they were done and available at Games Day.

They're also doing Cataphractii legion shoulder pads (they had SoH to show at Games Day)

[White Tiger88]

Really soon, since they were done and available at Games Day.

They're also doing Cataphractii legion shoulder pads (they had SoH to show at Games Day)

Awesome not sure if i should put off ordering till then since i have to figure my army out....So maybe book first o.o

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Mortarion won't be for a while, as I've said, they're doing Fulgrim first.

[White Tiger88]

Mortarion won't be for a while, as I've said, they're doing Fulgrim first.

Well then Angron has been promoted to being my Morty till then :P Now i just have to figure out if a Deathguard Tactical support squad with flamers is worth it over a cheap bolter squad. All i know is that i want Mortarion + 5 Death Shroud terminators.

[Spikey McTorture]

Well then Angron has been promoted to being my Morty till then :P Now i just have to figure out if a Deathguard Tactical support squad with flamers is worth it over a cheap bolter squad. All i know is that i want Mortarion + 5 Death Shroud terminators.

Why not 11 and mortarion in a spartan assault tank :P

[White Tiger88]

Why not 11 and mortarion in a spartan assault tank :P

I only have 900pts left to fit them in my army is mostly why lol.

[Daemonette666]

I forgot the Rainbow Marines were your favourite. :p

Have one of my local gamers who is heavily into 3 things with his gaming and collecting. 1. Dragons, 2. My Pretty Ponies (yes my pretty pony marines), 3. Rainbow warriors. He was teasing a lot of guys when they picked on his rainbow warriors about which would they rather face, rainbow warriors, pretty pony marines, squats or female space marines. Pretty pony marines won out, with squats last and rainbow warrior marines 2nd last.

What about the relevant squads type weapons. tactical, special and devastator? I want to build my 1000 sons marines and until I get the first book, have no idea whether I can add a missile launcher or flamer to a tactical squad, or whether I have to put all special weapons in one squad, all heavy weapons into another squad, and nothing except bolters into my tactical squads. From the previous comments it seems like I might have to do this, and I can not mix my weapons types within the squad (no flamers and melta guns, just all flamers or all melta upgrades)?

I have already built a devastator squad with 4 plasma cannon, but I have 4 tactical squads that need 2 weapons to complete the squads.

[CarlVictus]

Have one of my local gamers who is heavily into 3 things with his gaming and collecting. 1. Dragons, 2. My Pretty Ponies (yes my pretty pony marines), 3. Rainbow warriors. He was teasing a lot of guys when they picked on his rainbow warriors about which would they rather face, rainbow warriors, pretty pony marines, squats or female space marines. Pretty pony marines won out, with squats last and rainbow warrior marines 2nd last.

What about the relevant squads type weapons. tactical, special and devastator? I want to build my 1000 sons marines and until I get the first book, have no idea whether I can add a missile launcher or flamer to a tactical squad, or whether I have to put all special weapons in one squad, all heavy weapons into another squad, and nothing except bolters into my tactical squads. From the previous comments it seems like I might have to do this, and I can not mix my weapons types within the squad (no flamers and melta guns, just all flamers or all melta upgrades)?

I have already built a devastator squad with 4 plasma cannon, but I have 4 tactical squads that need 2 weapons to complete the squads.

You are correct. Legion tactical squads are 10-20 strong and only have Bolter, Bolt Pistol. You can substitute the bolters fora a CCW for free, or buy a CCW (so that you have B, BP, CCW) for +2 points per model.

The sergeant can only trade his bolter for special weapons (like power weapon, power fist, etc), so you can't swap Bolters to CCWs for free and still upgrade the sergeant.

You also cannot buy special weapons for the Tactical squad. No meltaguns, no Flamers, no Missile Launchers, etc.

the Legion Support Squad, is also a Troops choice, but cannot be used as a compulsory troop (though it still scores) and is 1 sergeant + 4-9 marines who have flamers.

If you don't want Flamers, you have to trade ALL the flamers for the same weapon, i.e. all meltaguns, all plasmaguns, etc.

These do not integrate into Tactical squads like Wolf Guard, they are their own 5-10 man unit with all the same special weapon.

Same for Heavies.

[wittdooley]

So Tac Squads are strictly Bolters, Bolt Pistols, and perhaps a CCW? Excellent. I can begin to build.

If you opt to go with CCW, does the entire squad have to take?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yes. You could pay 2 points each and just ADD the cc weapon.

[wittdooley]

Yes. You could pay 2 points each and just ADD the cc weapon.

But if I opt to give one bloke a CCW, do I have to upgrade the entire squad.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yep.

[Popsical]

TDA, what characters apart from the primarchs are in this book?
Could you post some info on them please.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Ezekyle Abaddon
Garviel Loken
Ancient Rylanor
Saul Tarvitz
Shabran Darr
Durak Rask
Crysos Morturg

They're various characters from the Heresy books published by Black Library. There are a few exceptions but most of the characters should be familiar.

[Popsical]

Thanks for that. Im familiar with tarvitz, abaddon, loken, rylanor but not the other 3. Who are they?
Also whats abaddon like?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Abaddon is cool, but I'm not really a fan of Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus/Black Legion, so I'm not the best person to ask because I didn't really pay attention to him.
Shabran Darr is a Loyalist World Eater.
Crysos Morturg is a Loyalist Death Guard Psyker.
Durak Rask is a Traitor Death Guard Demolitions Expert.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

And for more information on the Horus Heresy Part 1: Betrayal, please buy a copy from your local retailer, or why not purchase it from Forge World themselves (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/THE_HORUS__HERESY_BOOK_ONE_BETRAYAL.html)?

Thanks to everybody for commenting,


Agent