Defence Lines Questions

[doom-kitten]

Soooo I figured I should ask these before using my defence lines with quad gun:

Is the quad gun automated or can I fire it using a sister to benefit from her BS, if it is manual fire can it benefit from a faith ability such as the Retributors rending or standard sisters reroll of ones?

I have read and seen a battle report in which a guy uses an Eldar Dark Reaper Exarch to gain 2 shots on an Icarus and use his BS of 5 I didn't exactly understand how as I have little knowledge on ELdar, so basically I'm thinking the quad would work the same and would benefit from faith if fired by a sister benefiting from faith.

Second, does it gain the 4+ cover save from being behind the Aegis Line?

[Nabterayl]

A quad gun deployed as part of an Aegis line is battlefield debris per page 114, meaning it follows the rules and has the profile found on page 105.

As such, the gun can receive cover saves (because it is a "model" per page 105), and is not automated (because it is not an "emplaced weapon;" i.e., it is not part of a building). It can only be fired manually, by a model in base contact (any model - you bought the gun but it isn't "yours" once the game begins; enemy models can use the gun too if they can get to it). Firing the gun is done "instead of" a model's other weapon, though, so any rules that would apply to a model shooting his normal weapon apply to shooting the quad gun as well - faith powers, psychic powers, other special rules - as long as they apply to the model's shooting and not a specific gun.

[entendre_entendre]

A quad gun deployed as part of an Aegis line is battlefield debris per page 114, meaning it follows the rules and has the profile found on page 105.

As such, the gun can receive cover saves (because it is a "model" per page 105), and is not automated (because it is not an "emplaced weapon;" i.e., it is not part of a building). It can only be fired manually, by a model in base contact (any model - you bought the gun but it isn't "yours" once the game begins; enemy models can use the gun too if they can get to it). Firing the gun is done "instead of" a model's other weapon, though, so any rules that would apply to a model shooting his normal weapon apply to shooting the quad gun as well - faith powers, psychic powers, other special rules - as long as they apply to the model's shooting and not a specific gun.

I have a somewhat related question: Are purchased gun emplacements (like a quad gun) a unit and therefore worth Kill points? I know it seems silly, but if the quad gun is a model (since it has a statline - p2), it is also a unit (p3). Indeed, you yourself say that it is a model (therefore getting a cover save if applicable), so by that logic, it is also a unit and worth a killpoint in Purge the Alien, since all enemy units count for killpoints (p127)?

Admittedly, other fortifications are NOT KPs as they are terrain, but a quad gun or icarus lascannon from the Aegis line, I'm not so sure. I'm more curious than trying to rules lawyer my way to victory.

[dwez]

Although I agree with Nabterayl my buddies rang the Warhammer World events team the other day and asked them about the manual fire/auto fire situation regarding Tyranids using them. Their FAQ stated the couldn't manual fire one in a building but with the defence line NOT being a building the conjecture was they could manually it. The relevance is that I've made a quad gun for my nids:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jxn-R3OLoXU/UD7-cn2vgXI/AAAAAAAAECA/XPfB3ieoOBc/s320/12-P1060103.JPG

Anyway, the events team who wil be holding the Throne of Skulls tournament at Warhammer World responded with they can't manually fire it but it can still auto fire. Like I say I'm not entirely convinced but if they say it's OK then I'll go with it.

[Nabterayl]

I have a somewhat related question: Are purchased gun emplacements (like a quad gun) a unit and therefore worth Kill points? I know it seems silly, but if the quad gun is a model (since it has a statline - p2), it is also a unit (p3). Indeed, you yourself say that it is a model (therefore getting a cover save if applicable), so by that logic, it is also a unit and worth a killpoint in Purge the Alien, since all enemy units count for killpoints (p127)?
The question comes down to whether or not the gun emplacement is an enemy unit. It must be admitted that "enemy" is not defined, so we are in murky waters. As I argued here (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?24836-Locked-in-combat-with-a-gun-emplacement), I don't think it is: it can't autofire, and it can be used by either side's models, so who are its enemies? On the other hand, the gun emplacement is undeniably part of your army (because it's part of your FoC), and you paid points for it. To me, the fact that it can't shoot on its own and can be used by either side tips the scales in favor of gun emplacements having no enemy, but I can see reasonable people disagreeing.


Although I agree with Nabterayl my buddies rang the Warhammer World events team the other day and asked them about the manual fire/auto fire situation regarding Tyranids using them. Their FAQ stated the couldn't manual fire one in a building but with the defence line NOT being a building the conjecture was they could manually it. The relevance is that I've made a quad gun for my nids:

Anyway, the events team who wil be holding the Throne of Skulls tournament at Warhammer World responded with they can't manually fire it but it can still auto fire. Like I say I'm not entirely convinced but if they say it's OK then I'll go with it.
The tyranid building FAQ baffles me, I have to admit. With no explanation as to why tyranid infantry can't manually fire emplaced weapons, I don't know how we can apply that to other, similar cases like gun emplacements. I also don't understand the Warhammer World folks' decision. It's their tournament, of course, and tournaments are always a special breed of rules, but I just see no basis in the rules for gun emplacements being able to auto fire. I get that they used to be able to (and still do, in Planetstrike), but I just see no argument that they can now.

[dwez]

The tyranid building FAQ baffles me, I have to admit. With no explanation as to why tyranid infantry can't manually fire emplaced weapons, I don't know how we can apply that to other, similar cases like gun emplacements.

Those are the sort of one word unclarified answers that frustrate, particularly I think for nids. The old Tyranid Prime in a Mycetic Spore chestnut and the new lack of reroll for a Broodlord on the psychic powers charts for witchfire spells it can't use. All it would need is a little Designers note, or even one of their offhand jokes like 'of course they can't use Imperial Weaponry they don't have opposable thumbs' although it doesn't stop them using Telekinesis spells to 'throw a spanner' in the workings of machine it can't possibly fathom.

With no terms of reference it doesn't make sense.

[Nabterayl]

What do you mean, "*They* cut the power"? How could they cut the power, man? They're animals!

[Tynskel]

heheh.

I think it is quite obvious why the tyranids cannot operate emplaced guns.

Really, what one should do (while they are waiting) is make your own terrain with Tyranid only guns. Sentient stationary guns. Like spore chimneys, etc.

Remember, Hive Guard are spawned on location to protect valuable assets: Spawning Pools, Liquidation Vats, etc.

[Lerra]

What I really want to know is how Daemonettes manage to fire an emplaced weapon with their giant claws.

[Chris Copeland]

What I really want to know is how Daemonettes manage to fire an emplaced weapon with their giant claws.
They have amazingly dextrous bosoms and they use those. That's my best guess. :)

[dwez]

Really, what one should do (while they are waiting) is make your own terrain with Tyranid only guns. Sentient stationary guns. Like spore chimneys, etc.

Remember, Hive Guard are spawned on location to protect valuable assets: Spawning Pools, Liquidation Vats, etc.

That's what's in the background behind the defence line

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jxn-R3OLoXU/UD7-cn2vgXI/AAAAAAAAECA/XPfB3ieoOBc/s320/12-P1060103.JPG