GW losing tables

[jc122889]

I knmow this is an akward first post and this may not be the right place for it if not mods can of course move it. This is more or less a concern I have concerning games workshop. I got into the hobby a couple days after the newest rules came out. Me being a social and creative person loved the idea behind this hobby. So i went to a store near by my place that sells warhammer i dropped about $300 on chaos space marines got them built got them and was trying to get painting ideas so, i thought hey why not go to my local games workshop. I go in talk to the staff about a paint scheme i decide to go with night lords. After talking to the staff for a while I ask when I can come in and play a game. They tell me that they are no longer having gaming in the store and try to convince me to buy a table and like their facebook page to find a gaming group. I was curious as to why this was happening cuz i thought the whole idea was go to gw they will teach u how to build paint and play then from there u can advance your hobby.

So I go onto their facebook page and i see this

Also, for those of you who haven't heard yet, we'll be c
onverting the gaming tables in the shop over to display tables for each of the games. I know some people will be sad to see the tables though but the new look will help us introduce more
hobbyists to our games and grow the community overall! If you want to get one last game in be sure to come in this weekend as we'll be changing the table over on Monday.

We'll still have the 4x4 table set up so we can teach beginners though, so if you're interested in learning to play we'll be more than happy to teach you!

.Are all Games workshops doing this and geting rid of their tables or just this one in particular.
heres the link to their page so you can check it out

http://www.facebook.com/GWSquareOne?ref=hl

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Huh, that seems counter-intuitive. Not sure if it's a global thing; maybe some stores are doing it as an experiment?

I guess if they want to focus on advertisement to potential newbies, some diorama-tables wouldn't hurt.

[Mr Mystery]

Either misinterpretation or a local anomaly.

My local GW is adding a table once their refit is done.

[apahllo]

Either misinterpretation or a local anomaly.

My local GW is adding a table once their refit is done.
Local thing is the best bet. But this sad, there is a great community at my local store and it's something I think gw should put a greater focus on.

[gcsmith]

A lot of stores are going this way. The store in Torquay UK almost did. In fact I got banned the day a new manager turned up and annnounced no gaming on saturdays. I wasn't going to take the stopping of gaming on the only day I could come lightly.

[Wolfshade]

My local one, Birmingham, has recently (with 5 years) moved to a larger location so that they can have more gaming tables...

[Deadlift]

You got banned ?
I must admit I don't know the current manager as well as the previous guys. But seriously what did you do to get banned. Torquays manager seems an ok chap. You must have really pissed him off.

I can understand why they would stop gaming in some stores though during opening hours. Talking about Torquay, it's a very small shop and you just know parents treat the place as a youth drop off centre on a Saturday. How many of those kids actually buy anything ? Week in week out ?

They run gaming evenings in most stores, I say fine restrict the gaming until then so the store stops being over run with kids who are simple there to be baby sat.

These places are "shops" and not a crèche. If the manager wants to allow people to use the tables then fine. But a booking system would solve the hordes of kids who just hang around getting in the way and preventing real customers from doing their shopping.

[OrksOrksOrks]

A lot of stores are going this way. The store in Torquay UK almost did. In fact I got banned the day a new manager turned up and annnounced no gaming on saturdays. I wasn't going to take the stopping of gaming on the only day I could come lightly.

How'd that work out for you then champ?

[krittoris]

obviously they are still keeping the tables, they are just not allowing pick up games on them. they will be for advertising product with display armies and doing the same thing they always do with them which is teach people how the game works. normal gamers just wont be able to come into the store and use them for games.

it would lead me to also believe they will have open nights for games and what not. which they do in Canberra Australia and battle bunker sydney.

[TheStrategist]

I knmow this is an akward first post and this may not be the right place for it if not mods can of course move it. This is more or less a concern I have concerning games workshop. I got into the hobby a couple days after the newest rules came out. Me being a social and creative person loved the idea behind this hobby. So i went to a store near by my place that sells warhammer i dropped about $300 on chaos space marines got them built got them and was trying to get painting ideas so, i thought hey why not go to my local games workshop. I go in talk to the staff about a paint scheme i decide to go with night lords. After talking to the staff for a while I ask when I can come in and play a game. They tell me that they are no longer having gaming in the store and try to convince me to buy a table and like their facebook page to find a gaming group. I was curious as to why this was happening cuz i thought the whole idea was go to gw they will teach u how to build paint and play then from there u can advance your hobby.

So I go onto their facebook page and i see this

Also, for those of you who haven't heard yet, we'll be c
onverting the gaming tables in the shop over to display tables for each of the games. I know some people will be sad to see the tables though but the new look will help us introduce more
hobbyists to our games and grow the community overall! If you want to get one last game in be sure to come in this weekend as we'll be changing the table over on Monday.

We'll still have the 4x4 table set up so we can teach beginners though, so if you're interested in learning to play we'll be more than happy to teach you!

.Are all Games workshops doing this and geting rid of their tables or just this one in particular.
heres the link to their page so you can check it out

http://www.facebook.com/GWSquareOne?ref=hl

I would recommend stopping by X Planet Games. It's not too far off from Square One, at Burnhamthorpe and Tomken (east of Sq. 1). Check out their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/XPlanetGames

They have a dedicated basement with plenty of tables that can accommodate small tournaments. Check them out.

Cheers.

[eldargal]

Start/join a games club, then it doesn't matter what GW does in their stores.

[the jeske]

I am wondering what advice to people have for those communities where options to play are either at a shop [beginers only once you get an army store owner doesnt want you there] or at tournaments ?

[Col.Gravis]

Exeter lost its Gaming Room recently, going from IIRC seven 6x4, and two 4x4, to four 4x4. They still have the room, buts its now been walled off and is being used as a second store/stock room.

I understand the reasoning, the manager was fed up as being used as a day care center for ankle biters being dropped in there while the parents shopped at the weekend. But it feels a bit short sighted, alot of the older players only went in GW on gaming nights, with the capacity for that reduced why would we go there at all? No more impulse buys, and no more reason to support the local store rather then using discount online sellers.


Start/join a games club, then it doesn't matter what GW does in their stores.

Thats fine, and for many it is an option, still don't like the decisions being made though.

[Herzlos]

Yeah the day care centre seems to be the main issue, but these are people who are presumably buying stuff.

A better solution would be for them to hire out the tables for a few $ an hour up front, and maybe waive it if they buy something worth a figure blister or upwards. Or simplify it by only allowing table use with a purchase.

I'd imagine most reasonable gamers would probably purchase something anyway in exchange for the table use, or happy to make a token payment.

[jc122889]

The guy I spoke to explicitly said that there will be no more gaming in the store period. That people will have to find their own venues to play games and suggested i try their fb page to organize a game.

I will look into that x planet store thank you.

For me meeting new people is no big deal aslong as some guy doesnt invite me over to his house to play lol. But what about other newcomers or little kids even where are they going to play because theres noway that people wikk drop $200ish on a starter box paint etc then tag on a $350 table just to play the game

[Caitsidhe]

Don't buy direct from GW stores and the problem is solved. Play at stores which provide gaming space, i.e. they wash your back and you wash theirs. Most GW stores I've been to in the United States are small, have only a few tables to begin with and don't have near the turn out of players for pick up games in the first place.

[magickbk]

Having worked at GW for a number of years in the past, this sounds like maybe they are trying something in a small area (or the local area manager is a jerk). GW has always flip-flopped in my experience between a point of view where they are the only place to get your hobby in and being the focal point of a hobby community. When I was on staff, I had one manager who embraced the clubs and independent retailers, going so far as to send me out to independents to run events. The manager I had after that was the opposite, and would try to get players from other stores to come to our GW location instead. In the long run, you are better off if you can find a good independent to play at because they frequently have a wider variety of events and other support.

[Denzark]

I don't understand. A lot of 'kids' start with floor wars. Why the hell do you assume it would cost $350 to buy a table - to you mean the realm of battle boards?

If you mean table, the Memsahib purchased a table and 4 chairs in pine, not MDF, for £10 - whats that, $16.50? A 4x4 board of MDF to go on top to match what you would get at GW cannot possibly cost all that much. Green cloth over the top, et voila. $350 is a pie in the sky figure.

Maybe GW has another motive:

Doesn't want to be free child care
Amount of people above fire reglations for that specific location
Gamer funk and crowds getting complaints from other stores
People using tables then buying from local indy stores
Shoplifting by teens outweighs the amount brought in by impulse purchasing users of said tables

As I believe it is detailed that they will still do tutorial games, I don't think an assault on noobs is going to be the end result.

[thomas40kfanboy]

something similar happened at my local store (manager closed all open and closed painting tables) those of us who used the store a lot to paint and game because there are no other gaming groups nearby; made a large group complaint (20+ letters of complaint) straight to head office. manager got his *** handed to him on a plate, for nearly killing off a rather large store gaming group (one of the largest regular groups in England)
took a few months for it to go back to how it was. but we got our store back.

[OrksOrksOrks]

something similar happened at my local store (manager closed all open and closed painting tables) those of us who used the store a lot to paint and game because there are no other gaming groups nearby; made a large group complaint (20+ letters of complaint) straight to head office. manager got his *** handed to him on a plate, for nearly killing off a rather large store gaming group (one of the largest regular groups in England)
took a few months for it to go back to how it was. but we got our store back.

My local UK store allows people to paint and do hobby stuff, and they have tables but they ask first before coming down to play, they have a few big tables set up on a Thursday night, the problem with allowing people in to play is that sometimes, you get people who haven't spent a penny in the shop in years demanding room to play, which is crazy.

[gcsmith]

My local UK store allows people to paint and do hobby stuff, and they have tables but they ask first before coming down to play, they have a few big tables set up on a Thursday night, the problem with allowing people in to play is that sometimes, you get people who haven't spent a penny in the shop in years demanding room to play, which is crazy.

Asking to play if you haven't spent in years isn't crazy. They wouldn't get any future sales from me If I couldn't game in store.


Also About my banning, I got undbanned after a talk and me and the manager get on alright. It's not my regular store now anyway.

[OrksOrksOrks]

Asking to play if you haven't spent in years isn't crazy. They wouldn't get any future sales from me If I couldn't game in store.


Also About my banning, I got undbanned after a talk and me and the manager get on alright. It's not my regular store now anyway.

It is crazy, they don't owe you anything, you're not entitled to play because you bought some models back in 3rd edition. You wouldn't go into a Starbucks and sit down and use their free Wi-Fi if you hadn't bought a coffee, you wouldn't go into a Waterstones and read a book you bought down the road. If you want to use thier space and their terrain, you have to support that business.

[Psychosplodge]

No but you can lean on the window at starbucks and use their free wi-fi....

[Herzlos]

My local UK store allows people to paint and do hobby stuff, and they have tables but they ask first before coming down to play, they have a few big tables set up on a Thursday night, the problem with allowing people in to play is that sometimes, you get people who haven't spent a penny in the shop in years demanding room to play, which is crazy.

But whoever they play might. And how do you determine a paying threshold? If I splash out for a full army in one go and take a year to paint it, should I be banned from playing in a store?

[Psychosplodge]

Clearly you should have a stamp card and everytime you spend £20 you can have a game :D

[Deadlift]

Asking to play if you haven't spent in years isn't crazy. They wouldn't get any future sales from me If I couldn't game in store.


Also About my banning, I got undbanned after a talk and me and the manager get on alright. It's not my regular store now anyway.

I am sorry but Torquay used to be chocked full of kids taking over the store on a Saturday who had little to no spending power and parents who had no intention of buying anything. As you well know that's one of the reasons why two of the previous GW employees at that store left and came to work for me. They hated the babysitting regime that became commonplace but their hands were tied. I say good for Ulrick if he has gotten rid of some of the annoying oinks that stunk up the place. They without doubt put many actual customers off coming in store with their constant bickering, shouting and screaming. For any parents bringing in their children 1st time it was very off putting. You could not get a word in. If all the stores were / are like this I can see this "no gaming" outside of club time being common practice.

Obviously my own experience of running an amusement arcade and parents having the same attitude of treating the place as a crèche. I don't allow loitering of any kind as it puts off the actual customers.

[Deadlift]

Of course you should be welcome, but what about the annoying 14 year old rule monkey who has no intention of spending a penny. That's we're shop club nights come in.

[Psychosplodge]

I say good for Ulrick if he has gotten rid of some of the annoying oinks that stunk up the place.

Are you telling me that Torquay GW is run by someone actually with such an epic name?

[Herzlos]

Of course you should be welcome, but what about the annoying 14 year old rule monkey who has no intention of spending a penny. That's we're shop club nights come in.

There should be ways to avoid those and the babysitting service customers without putting off the rest of them, many who may only be into the hobby if they have somewhere to play. Since GW don't want to let on that there is a hobby outside GW stores, I'd assumed they'd want to keep everyone in house rather than looking for independents to use (and introduced to the heretics who play non-approved games :p)

[Deadlift]

Are you telling me that Torquay GW is run by someone actually with such an epic name?

Yes indeed, nice fellow he is too, very helpful. It's just a shame
I have a model store closer that undercuts GW rrp

[Deadlift]

There should be ways to avoid those and the babysitting service customers without putting off the rest of them, many who may only be into the hobby if they have somewhere to play. Since GW don't want to let on that there is a hobby outside GW stores, I'd assumed they'd want to keep everyone in house rather than looking for independents to use (and introduced to the heretics who play non-approved games :p)

Unfortunately there is a fine line between letting a few customers play a few games and having a store overrun by snotlings. Which is where Torquay used to be at.

[Herzlos]

Unfortunately there is a fine line between letting a few customers play a few games and having a store overrun by snotlings. Which is where Torquay used to be at.

Free gaming table access with purchase of £20 or more?

[Deadlift]

Free gaming table access with purchase of £20 or more?

I don't know, managers discretion is best here I think ;)
Someone who like your good self who drops a fair few coins less frequently than someone who buys more regularly but in smaller amounts should be just as welcome to play. And of course there are always those regulars who are worth their weight in gold and happy to pitch in when the managers busy.

To be fair to GCSmith the times I have seen him I store he has been very friendly and not one of the grots. I played a game against him a long time ago. A doubles tournament and he was again very cool without being too much of a rules monkey. Tau if I remember :)

If it were me I would have a booking system and those that were not playing and just hanging around we're asked to leave. Those who abused theyre allotted time were restricted from further games for a period of time.

[Mr Mystery]

That's a surefire way to lose customers.

Local store just runs a strict booking system. First come, first served. Table released if you're not there 10 minutes before time (your game starts at the booked time....) Works pretty well!

[gcsmith]

That's a surefire way to lose customers.

Local store just runs a strict booking system. First come, first served. Table released if you're not there 10 minutes before time (your game starts at the booked time....) Works pretty well!

Aye, I don't spend that often. But there's no reason to buy if I can't game :D

[Lockark]

A Gaming Store isn't just the fact that it's full of stuff you can buy. Alot of time you can buy online for cheaper.

A gaming store is a community. Now maby there are some people in the community you don't like? (I.E. Maby you dislike thows younger gamers, who just want to enjoy the game as much as you?) Yah sure. But telling me store owners of GW stores are gutting their communities over something that trivial?

I find the speculation that it's "Because they don't want to be a day care" hard to believe in all honesty. If it was, then that manager is in the wrong line of work in all honesty.

[Angron]

A Gaming Store isn't just the fact that it's full of stuff you can buy. Alot of time you can buy online for cheaper.

A gaming store is a community. Now maby there are some people in the community you don't like? (I.E. Maby you dislike thows younger gamers, who just want to enjoy the game as much as you?) Yah sure. But telling me store owners of GW stores are gutting their communities over something that trivial?

I find the speculation that it's "Because they don't want to be a day care" hard to believe in all honesty. If it was, then that manager is in the wrong line of work in all honesty.

It's not exaggeration. At the GW store in Washington I played at a few years ago, if you went on the weekend, there were all sorts of people would drop their kids who could barely see over the table off to "look at the little men", and would be a distraction and a nuisance while we tried to get in a few games on their 2 tables, or actually tried to buy something.

[gcsmith]

It's not exaggeration. At the GW store in Washington I played at a few years ago, if you went on the weekend, there were all sorts of people would drop their kids who could barely see over the table off to "look at the little men", and would be a distraction and a nuisance while we tried to get in a few games on their 2 tables, or actually tried to buy something.

My old store had the rule, no one under 11. What's happened to that?

[Deadlift]

A Gaming Store isn't just the fact that it's full of stuff you can buy. Alot of time you can buy online for cheaper.

A gaming store is a community. Now maby there are some people in the community you don't like? (I.E. Maby you dislike thows younger gamers, who just want to enjoy the game as much as you?) Yah sure. But telling me store owners of GW stores are gutting their communities over something that trivial?

I find the speculation that it's "Because they don't want to be a day care" hard to believe in all honesty. If it was, then that manager is in the wrong line of work in all honesty.

It's a job in retail, not child care. If it were accepted that part of the job were to include looking after minors then they would be expected to have a criminal record check. I am sorry but most retail managers I know in GW don't get enough doing the job they do without lumping in babysitting grots at the same time.

Don't get me wrong, it's great getting the youngsters involved. Many are better players than me and I help out with a club at a local school when I can. But entering a store on a Saturday morning is asking for a migraine.

[OrksOrksOrks]

It's a job in retail, not child care. If it were accepted that part of the job were to include looking after minors then they would be expected to have a criminal record check. I am sorry but most retail managers I know in GW don't get enough doing the job they do without lumping in babysitting grots at the same time.

Don't get me wrong, it's great getting the youngsters involved. Many are better players than me and I help out with a club at a local school when I can. But entering a store on a Saturday morning is asking for a migraine.


All GW shop staff do have to be CRB checked, because so many people leave thier kids there.

[Deadlift]

All GW shop staff do have to be CRB checked, because so many people leave thier kids there.

Yeah my bad, your correct. Just checked and I was told it was an annual check too.

Just had this text from an ex staff member.

Hey look after little Timmy for a few (6) hours, and when we are back I won't feel any obligation to even buy a paint pot!

While its funny, when the stores have targets to reach and the kids are preventing people from wanting to enter the stores. You can see why GW may take this route.

[Herzlos]

And that's a huge market they should be able to capitalize on without annoying many people or being taken advantage of, instead of making a blanket ban on gaming.

Though it has occurred to me that the only GW shops I've seen with busy gaming tables have had separate areas so they don't really interfere with the store.

[Wolfshade]

Unfortunately, not all GW stores a large enough for segregation, especially with the roll out of the one man stores.

[Denzark]

I am quite sympathetic to GW here. A horde of nasty children add nothing significant, if anything, to their sales. They clog up the store, they discourage people from going in, the child protection risk increases, they often smell awful when running in packs. And this even before the horrifying thoughts of parents using the store as a crèche. Because I am sure if the parents do come back after a couple of hours shopping, the last thing they are going to want to do is pander to little Timmy's impulse buy. They want to get back in their cars, fight through the traffic and get home to watch the X-voice on TV or whatever.

Gaming and running the store works better separately, especially in 1-man stores. If people were paying for the tables so be it. But GW owes nothing to the gaming community - in terms of provision of gaming facilities. Specific club nights good (especially if there is a veteran night) but to expect to disrupt business all day everyday is a bit much.

Argue if you like - please feel free to provide evidence from sales figures that demonstrate conclusively that longer stay in the shop (ie whilst gaming) results in increased sales volume per individual.

[Psychosplodge]

To be honest It does get on my tits when i'm trying to buy something and a horde of non-purchasing snotlings are making me have to wait at the till cause they're in the way/distracting the staff/looking like they're about to steal anything not bolted down...

[Wolfshade]

I would agree with you here Denzark. After all, while you are playing you are not painting, buying or glueing.

It would be nice if they were able to offer a space of gaming to occur. However, GW business model is selling miniatures not running a crèche. Maybe this could be an alternative revenue stream, GW:Crèche, parents pay by the hour to look after their kids. It would need to be quite expensive as the cost of the store (a seperate unit from teh GW:Retail) would need to cover the week days when it is not open.

[Deadlift]

Most GW stores run evening clubs, I think this great and as much as they need to do :)

[Psychosplodge]

Didn't they stop them in the early 2000's?

[gcsmith]

Most GW stores run evening clubs, I think this great and as much as they need to do :)

The problem with this are people like me. I spend money fairly often to get my army up to date etc. But I don't see a point when I can't game. And there was a period where gaming on a club night was out of the question due to school and other commitments.

Sorry, but I just think if you Sell a game like that then you should provide gaming space. Especially since it provides a reason for more people to buy it. Just do what Shrewsbury used to do and ban anyone under 11 coming in to do hobby/gaming etc.

[Angron]

Most GW stores run evening clubs, I think this great and as much as they need to do :)

Might be different in the UK, but I can't ever remember a GW store near me doing this. It was, "hey we close soon, wrap it up and gtfo."

[Hewhohowls]

This is my first post here, and normally I just lurk on several sites but this thread has spurred me into action. As the store in question is my local GW.

The actions by this "manager" and some of the justifications in this thread or ridiculous. If he doesn't want parents just dumping children in his store, as manager and operator he needs to stop being a coward and tell these parents. If he doesn't want kids screaming at each other over rule debates, use your authority as Store Manager and tell them to stop, or they won't be welcome back.

Instead of fostering and developing a tight-nit community of gamers with manners and mutual respect, he has decided to be a coward avoid having awkward conversations with a few individuals.

I know the area very well, as I grew up just north of there. The hobby is dying to be clear, not just GW but all of them. The area has no real community. The guys who learned with me have scattered to the winds, so frequent other GWs further away, some are out of the hobby altogether. When I was 11-13 there were staff members who could wow me, and managers who pushed me to be better than I was. The managers were men my parents wanted me to be around, hobby manager is not exactly a glamorous position, but attitude matters, and this guys attitude is poor.

This manager is pushing block in base colours and brown wash to every new customer like their 8 year olds. No ambition, no drive, no goals or vision for what his effect on the area is going to be. There hasn't been a reason to come into the store since he started in march, MARCH!! There haven't been dedicated gaming nights for almost 2 years. If all I want is to buy some models I don't need a gw for that. I can order them online for cheaper, and I don't have to wait a week from when I actually want it to be told "yeah we're still out of that, maybe thursday?" What a physical store gives you is an opportunity to be the driver, the spark that gets people excited. It can be anything advanced painting, high level gaming, converting you name it! You know what there might be an argument in your store time to time, but as a man you should be able to get people to calm down and make a ruling. But if these kids are passionate enough about this hobby to give that much emotion why is that a bad thing?

[Hewhohowls]

I am quite sympathetic to GW here. A horde of nasty children add nothing significant, if anything, to their sales. They clog up the store, they discourage people from going in, the child protection risk increases, they often smell awful when running in packs. And this even before the horrifying thoughts of parents using the store as a crèche. Because I am sure if the parents do come back after a couple of hours shopping, the last thing they are going to want to do is pander to little Timmy's impulse buy. They want to get back in their cars, fight through the traffic and get home to watch the X-voice on TV or whatever.

Gaming and running the store works better separately, especially in 1-man stores. If people were paying for the tables so be it. But GW owes nothing to the gaming community - in terms of provision of gaming facilities. Specific club nights good (especially if there is a veteran night) but to expect to disrupt business all day everyday is a bit much.

Argue if you like - please feel free to provide evidence from sales figures that demonstrate conclusively that longer stay in the shop (ie whilst gaming) results in increased sales volume per individual.

Let me flip that around.

How likely are you to continue purchasing models to play warhammer as a single player game?

The people who can play outside the store already will. Its those who don't have friends who play, or who's parents aren't willing to leave their kids in a store run by someone who could potentially have a record. Why make a decision to cut out current and future customers?

[Denzark]

Let me flip that around.

How likely are you to continue purchasing models to play warhammer as a single player game?

The people who can play outside the store already will. Its those who don't have friends who play, or who's parents aren't willing to leave their kids in a store run by someone who could potentially have a record. Why make a decision to cut out current and future customers?

A couple of points - I got into the hobby through a friend. So I have never not had somebody to play. Second, what sort of loon starts a hobby that needs 2 people when they don't have a partner in that hobby.

Next, GW consider themselves to be a miniature or toy soldier company. The games are an aside, and not needed for what GW claims in their own corporate blurbs, to be their mission.

Lastly, I thought we had a post earlier on in this debate claiming that the store in question would still do tutorials so introduce people to the game. You don't buy a squash racket (or handball if the yanks prefer) and expect to use it in the shop do you?

[Psychosplodge]

You don't buy a squash racket (or handball if the yanks prefer) and expect to use it in the shop do you?

Not more than once...

[Wolfshade]

The hobby isn't just playing, a firend of mine she has four very large armies which are just sit in her display cabinets.
She buys models without ever rolling a die.

[Psychosplodge]

Yeah I haven't played since 4th-ish and still collect...

[Herzlos]

Next, GW consider themselves to be a miniature or toy soldier company. The games are an aside, and not needed for what GW claims in their own corporate blurbs, to be their mission.


Yet they publish rules and demonstrate how to play the game in the store, the intro set is a game, things are priced on how good they are in games, the company has "Game" in the title, and that they've produced actual board games in the past (Hero Quest, Blood Bowl). To imply that they are a collectables company with an obscure sideline in gaming is obtuse and misleading.

Not that their focus is soley on gaming; there are a lot of painters (my girlfriend) and collectors (the guy I usually game with), but equally to a lot of people the main point is gaming, as demonstrated by the number of people playing games with unpainted figures.


Lastly, I thought we had a post earlier on in this debate claiming that the store in question would still do tutorials so introduce people to the game. You don't buy a squash racket (or handball if the yanks prefer) and expect to use it in the shop do you?

True, but if the store had a few squash courts to show new players how to play and were often empty, I'd be surprised if they refused to let people use them (not for free, though).

[Col.Gravis]

Argue if you like - please feel free to provide evidence from sales figures that demonstrate conclusively that longer stay in the shop (ie whilst gaming) results in increased sales volume per individual.

Which of course no body can provide, but I will stand by the argument I made. No tables to play on gives me no reason to go into the store at all, going in for gaming is the only time I'd go into the store at all, buying on impulse, and to support the store,and of course because I was going in anyway.

Why now would I make a special trip into the store to pay RRP, when I can order online at a discounted price? There is no reason for me to support the store any more as it provides no benefit, indeed it costs more. Nor does it provide benefit to anyone who is'nt just getting started as you can get product cheaper elsewhere, unless perhaps you are going to town anyway and just need that new set quicker then someone will ship it to you.

In cases where a store previously had a large community of gamers who went in to the store for the similar reasons as myself, how can that not have an effect on sales volume locally?

That said, do I sympathise with the creche problem. They are a shop, not a day care center, and of course, and the ankle biters are as I said annoying. Surely there must be better ways to deal with the problem though(i.e. no unattended children in the store)?

[Denzark]

@Herzlos yes, but in your analogy, the squash courts will not be empty. its just they will have prettily and artfully arranged highly expensive squash rackets, balls and clothing draped all over them preventing play. And also, the original post said there will still be a 4x4 to teach the game to noobs.

@ The Colonel yes there are little reasons to go into stores. However sometimes I like to browse hardcopy, or I may pick up essentials like paint etc. I may buy new releases on pre-order because I must have that plastic crack from day 1. Or maybe the processing times for the discount sites are doing your head in and you will pay willingly for the NOW.

I am less likely to dally when the place is full of little oiks.

You are so true about the online price and maybe that is the thing. GW makes sufficient profit selling to online retailers giving them enough margin to offer discounts - if they didn't they would do it at those prices. The online guys make a sufficient profit margin - or they would fold. the GW cost per unit for a brick and mortar location must be higher and ever decreasing with increased knowledge of and access to, webstores. Illustrated by moving to 1 man stores to cut costs.

So maybe GW want to be amazon and have no shops - we still want the plastic crack and the fluff. Or maybe they think the smaller shops are enough to get people in and once hooked and introduced to the likes of you and I who say 'Go to maelstrom/wayland/whoever to save money', the GW job is done.

I have no context of only ever being able to play in an actual GW - it is only in the last 2 years that my town actually got a GW and I never play there because it smells.

[Col.Gravis]

@ The Colonel yes there are little reasons to go into stores. However sometimes I like to browse hardcopy, or I may pick up essentials like paint etc. I may buy new releases on pre-order because I must have that plastic crack from day 1. Or maybe the processing times for the discount sites are doing your head in and you will pay willingly for the NOW.

I'd certainly say your not alone in that, there will always be those who do want/have reason to shop in a physical store, for some things I'm very much the same - and indeed some will be more likely to browse, I do think there might be better ways of extending such browsing time though by dealing with the ankle biters rowdiness rather then removing facilities which also draw in other customers/potential customers.

I've no idea what GW's long term plan is with regards to shops, and if this hints at it even, as I suspect its down to individual managers/regions rather then some national strategy. I do worry that in the UK at least though, where unlike the US there are so few indy stores, if GW was to withdraw from the highstreet either as a deliberate strategy or through stores which do fail (I'm not suggesting that the losses in sales from the trend in removing open tabels etc is going to lead to this), it might be the start of a long term decline with the resultant loss of marketplace visibility.

[Herzlos]

@Herzlos yes, but in your analogy, the squash courts will not be empty. its just they will have prettily and artfully arranged highly expensive squash rackets, balls and clothing draped all over them preventing play. And also, the original post said there will still be a 4x4 to teach the game to noobs.

What if in my analogy the squash courts were empty, or at least some where, and the empty ones were filled with display stuff.

Incidently, I don't actually recally ever seeing anyone using the demo tables in any of the shops. I've seen plenty of people using painting stations and gaming tables though. Can anyone with staff knowledge take a guess as to how often the demo tables are actually used?

[Hewhohowls]

A couple of points - I got into the hobby through a friend. So I have never not had somebody to play. Second, what sort of loon starts a hobby that needs 2 people when they don't have a partner in that hobby.

Next, GW consider themselves to be a miniature or toy soldier company. The games are an aside, and not needed for what GW claims in their own corporate blurbs, to be their mission.

Lastly, I thought we had a post earlier on in this debate claiming that the store in question would still do tutorials so introduce people to the game. You don't buy a squash racket (or handball if the yanks prefer) and expect to use it in the shop do you?

Look at a one of the starter boxes, they all have the words game on them.

[jc122889]

Exactly it is advertised as a game

Warhammer the GAME of fantasy battles

The Lord of the Rings Strategy battle GAME

Also why do you assume that a person needs to have a friend in this hobby to start it up. I did my research on this hobby saw it was kinda cool told my friends about it they said nah not their thing but I started it anyway. Does that make me a loon because I started alone. Thats an awfully bold thing to say that a person is a loon just because they started without having a friend in the hobby. I researched this and saw that it was a social hobby and that I would be able to go to a games workshop and be able to meet new people and play the GAME with them. Its even advertised on the site that way.

I went in again yesterday to see whats up and to tell people in the shop about this post and raised some points that were presented here. Fact of the matter is they dont have any snot nosed kids coming in getting dropped off as if it were a day care centre and if they do the parents always buy something then and there for them to work on so its not like they are wasting space they are actually valuable hobbyists.

A kid came in yesterday brought his army his rulebooks everything he needed to play a game only to be told that he wasnt able to play in store anymore needless to say that he threw a tantrum as did his mom and the policy of no tables. So the kid just left with his mom took his stuff and said ok guess im not coming back here.

From what I was told by the regulars the community has been dead for a while and it was starting to build back up until this decision.

[Caitsidhe]

The world is full of stupid people making stupid choices. I don't buy from Games Workshop stores because I've yet to get good service (or even a good vibe) at one. I buy at the various gaming stores which provide places for gaming (all sorts). My favorite is Dragons Lair in San Antonio, Texas.

[Deadlift]

The world is full of stupid people making stupid choices. I don't buy from Games Workshop stores because I've yet to get good service (or even a good vibe) at one. I buy at the various gaming stores which provide places for gaming (all sorts). My favorite is Dragons Lair in San Antonio, Texas.

Bit harsh judging others by your own experiences mate ?
I generally have found GW customer services in store and on the phone second to none. I admit I don't generally don't buy from my local GW store but when I do it's always nice to speak to someone who seems as jazzed about the hobby as me. My independent store is run by train fanatics.

[Caitsidhe]

Bit harsh judging others by your own experiences mate ?
I generally have found GW customer services in store and on the phone second to none. I admit I don't generally don't buy from my local GW store but when I do it's always nice to speak to someone who seems as jazzed about the hobby as me. My independent store is run by train fanatics.

Harsh or not, what else is there to make judgement based upon besides first hand experience? In my personal experience GW stores (here in the United States) are small, keep odd hours, provide very few tables (if any) and don't particularly win me over. Why would I go in there? If I was a painter who never rolls a die, I can order anything I want direct and have it delivered. Time is not a factor. If I am a gamer, why wouldn't I support those merchants who support me in my hobby? I tend to give a business or a chain the standard three strikes. If I get three bad experiences, I'm out. I don't shop at GW Stores, which means they already got three strikes from me.

*It should also be noted that independent retailers are numerous (much more so than GW) stores in the United States. We don't suffer from a lack of options in large cities.

[Psychosplodge]

See the high street supplier here is generally GW or none, sometimes there'll be an independent but it's not generally in the town centre, it'll be down a sketchy back lane somewhere or on an industrial estate in a warehouse unit,

Their customer service is amongst the best i've dealt with in resolving any issues, but their frontline retail staff can be over enthusiastic until they recognise your face.

[jc122889]

Just to let everyone know. This GW has 3 6x4 and only 1 4x4.Itd make sense to have 1 table for fantasy 1 for 40k and the 4x4 for lotr.

[DF3CT]

You got banned ?
I must admit I don't know the current manager as well as the previous guys. But seriously what did you do to get banned. Torquays manager seems an ok chap. You must have really pissed him off.

I can understand why they would stop gaming in some stores though during opening hours. Talking about Torquay, it's a very small shop and you just know parents treat the place as a youth drop off centre on a Saturday. How many of those kids actually buy anything ? Week in week out ?

They run gaming evenings in most stores, I say fine restrict the gaming until then so the store stops being over run with kids who are simple there to be baby sat.

These places are "shops" and not a crèche. If the manager wants to allow people to use the tables then fine. But a booking system would solve the hordes of kids who just hang around getting in the way and preventing real customers from doing their shopping.

I would imagine that instead of axing gaming altogether they post signs and inform parents they aren't allowed to "leave" kids in the store unsupervised under the age of 14 or something.

What kind of spineless store managers are at these locations that can't confront parents about using their retail space as daycare?

[Saliman]

I would imagine that instead of axing gaming altogether they post signs and inform parents they aren't allowed to "leave" kids in the store unsupervised under the age of 14 or something.

What kind of spineless store managers are at these locations that can't confront parents about using their retail space as daycare?

The same kind of "spineless" managers who understand that they tread a very fine line when it comes to attracting business from that age group. Not allowed to leave your children there to take part in an expensive hobby? Guess that means you don't want to see any more money from me then.

Parents and GW stores more often than not have an awkward relationship that fully revolves around money. If you have a solution to that then please do suggest it, 'cause I sure as hell don't.

[gcsmith]

The same kind of "spineless" managers who understand that they tread a very fine line when it comes to attracting business from that age group. Not allowed to leave your children there to take part in an expensive hobby? Guess that means you don't want to see any more money from me then.

Parents and GW stores more often than not have an awkward relationship that fully revolves around money. If you have a solution to that then please do suggest it, 'cause I sure as hell don't.

Easy, no children under 11. That's the age where they go to secondary school and as such should be responsible for their own actions a lot more.

[Saliman]

Easy, no children under 11. That's the age where they go to secondary school and as such should be responsible for their own actions a lot more.

If we're going down this route then medically children are considered responsible for their own actions at the age of 8. It's not a case of age, it's a case of the precedent already being set and it being financially damaging to change it. Besides, have you seen secondary school children nowadays? Maturity is a core value that the teachers attempt to instill in the rabble, not something that is expected to already be there any more.

[Denzark]

If we're going down this route then medically children are considered responsible for their own actions at the age of 8. It's not a case of age, it's a case of the precedent already being set and it being financially damaging to change it. Besides, have you seen secondary school children nowadays? Maturity is a core value that the teachers attempt to instill in the rabble, not something that is expected to already be there any more.

Where the hell do you get that from? In UK law (England and Wales) the age of responsibility is 10 - I believe the Jocks do something different. I have never heard of the term 'medically responsible'.

[Saliman]

Where the hell do you get that from? In UK law (England and Wales) the age of responsibility is 10 - I believe the Jocks do something different. I have never heard of the term 'medically responsible'.

Perhaps I'm blurring the line between medically and legally. It's a well known (well at least I thought it was) fact that children understand what they are doing from around the age of 8. Legally sure, it could be older, doesn't really change anything though.

Either way, you seem to be getting riled up over it so I'll lead by example and take a step back.