ideas for training armies

[Lord Lee]

Hi guys and girls

I have started on my 6th ed project of building a game case that unfolds to a 4 foot by 4 foot tabletop so I can take it anywhere and teach new people how to play 40k.

My idea was to use the new starter box as a base but I do not like dark vengence so I have instead decided to build 4 small legal armies that new players can use to learn.

The 4 armies are

1 Craftworld Eldar

2 Chaos Space Marines

3 Orks

4 Imperial Guard

So what units do you think as a new player would give you the best feel for each of the above armies without using Special Characters?
Or do you think I have it wrong and a different army should be included?

Thanks
Lord Lee

[Tepogue]

You have left out the most popular of all armies, Space Marines and no, CSM don't count.Include a force of them.

Ignore points costs (infact for demos, play the lower pointed army and lose on purpose)


For a demo, you can do super simple and just an HQ and 2 Troops

Or do 1 HQ, 1 troop and 1 vehicle.

You don't want to overload your attendees with too much at once.

[Lunar Camel]

I agree with Tepogue. If you use Space Marines against CSM (or even regular Marines) it actually makes it easier. You can focus more on the movement and terrain. Shooting and assaults are easy since everyone has the same stats, all you need is fours for all your rolling. Later, when your students are comfortable with the game mechanics, you can alter the troops focusing on different weapon strenghts, AP and combat issues. Then add vehicles to it for the next step and so on.

This way you break the game into its simple forms: movement, then combats, then vehicles, etc.

Thats how I did it when I worked at GW.

[Lord Lee]

My idea was for new players to play through a mini campaign that starts with the basic hq with troop and something extra then if the player enjoys the game move up to a more complex point level that tops out at 750pts.

I most likely won't be playing any of the games myself but acting as a gamesmaster walking the players through the games.

With Space Marines should they replace the Chaos Space Marines slot?

I will be writing up a mini campaign and little info sheets for each armies rules like the booklet that was in AOBR that should make the game flow smoothly

So what sort of units do you think would give a new player the right feel for each army?

Lord Lee

[fuzzbuket]

heres my ideas:

=eldar:
-farseer,
-avengers,
-war walker (possibly 2 , or 1 WW and another 5 avengers)

=space marines:
-librarian (people seem to like descriptions of huge psy powers and their libbies face accidently exploding is awlays fun!)
-tactical squad
-attack bikes

=orks
-boss
-big mob of boys
-rokkit boys

=necrons (what new player cant resist **** space zombies that are robots and shoot cannons that disintegrate people on a atomic level?!)
-lord
-immortals
-warriors


some armies dont have a tank but more infantry and ive tried to come up with armies that suite the feel and fluff of the background
as for a campaign just have say4 pre determined missions (and say have with the last one give the defenders some fort or tank or something) and then add army background as you go along!

[Chris*ta]

lose on purpose

:(

[gcsmith]

You have left out the most popular of all armies, Space Marines and no, CSM don't count.Include a force of them.

Ignore points costs (infact for demos, play the lower pointed army and lose on purpose)


For a demo, you can do super simple and just an HQ and 2 Troops

Or do 1 HQ, 1 troop and 1 vehicle.

You don't want to overload your attendees with too much at once.

I don't think that's good. Infact you should try and stay as an observer and let two people play each other as much as possible. Intentionally losing is not a good way to get people into the hobby.

[Chris*ta]

I'd certainly say Codex SM have more right than any other race to be one of the races.

I'd say IG would be a good idea, except that I'm against SM vs. IG on fluff grounds.

CSM would be a good choice, perhaps especially if you lean more towards cultists rather than legionnaires. This is dependent on release date of C:CSM and when you want it finished by.

Orks are a good choice. Swarms and maybe a vehicle or two.

Maybe Tyranids, but I don't feel especially enthusiastic about the idea. Not sure why.

I'd suggest maybe Dark Eldar rather than Eldar, simply because it's hard to do justice to the idea of aspect warriors in so small a force (and that is really what the eldar are about, generally). Depends on what ages you're planning to do intros with.

The more I think about it, the more I think focussing on SM and CSM is the best idea. Remember that most players will choose marines s their first army, so you may as well start them there (or CSMs, which are basically the same). Also, it simplifies the rolling so you can focus on what makes playing cool, rather than on knowing what number you're meant to be rolling against.

[Lord Lee]

This is going well guys, so far we have

Space Marines with
Libarian
Tactical Squad with razorback
Small assault squad
Some other unit or maybe heavy tank

Chaos Space Marines (pending new codex next month)
Daemon Prince (maybe)
Large Cultist Squad
Some form of power armored squad
Some form of chaos engine (to show a real difference from loyalists space marines)

Imperial Guard (they are just to big a part of the background to miss)
Comisar Lord (sorry about the spelling but incuded for the exicution rule)
Vet squad
A Infantry Platoon (comand squad, 2 infantry squads and a heavy weapon squad)
Chimera transport
Sentinel
A fast tank or heavy tank

Orks
Warboss
Nobz
Large boyz mob
Small biker mob
Maybe some lootas
A looted wagon or battlewagon

What do you guys think?

Lord Lee

[Tepogue]

Sorry, but 15 years experience as an Outrider, GW employee and Game Manager for Hobbytown have shown me that losing the 1st game to a new player is best. This causes the gamblers fallacy where the new player knows they won one game and believe they can win again. If you curb stomp a new player in their first game, most people will leave the game with a negative feeling and dislike the game. Some people however can't leave their egos behind and must curb stomp the noob to make themselves feel good.

To demo the game you need to focus on the 3 main elements of the game:

Movement
Shooting
Assault

Your force needs to be able to do all 3 of these. Usually though shooting troops don't want to move, while assault troops must move to get into Assault range.

Additional rules that are important for a beginner

Characters
Vehicles

Including Characters gives a new player a Hero to focus on and in general Characters are useful in the assault element to ensure the combat is won.

Vehicles are big centerpiece models and give new players another model to focus on. Plus it introduces Armour Values and Armour Penetration.

The final rule that needs to be shown is the reason for the fight.

An objective is huge. Just a simple 1 objective, is fine.

Rule's I'd avoid in demos with completly new players:

Flyers
Psychics

So with these guidelines starting demo armies would look like this:


SM Captain
5 Marines with a heavy weapon
5 assault marines
Predator/Dreadnought

Ork Warboss
10 Shoota Boyz with Rokit Launcher
15 Slugga Boyz
1 Killa Kan/buggy of some sort.

Lord Commisar
Command Squad kitted with flamers/close combat/pistols
10 man basic squad with missile/lascannon
Chimera/Sentinel

Chaos Lord
5 CSM with a heavy weapon
5 CSM close combat
Dread/Predator

I'd prefer to only use AV 10-12 vehicles if at all possible and make sure the opposing side has a weapon that can hurt the vehicle on at least a 4+. EG Krak Missile S8 'hurts' a Dread on a 4+

[Chris*ta]

Sorry, but 15 years experience as an Outrider, GW employee and Game Manager for Hobbytown have shown me that losing the 1st game to a new player is best. This causes the gamblers fallacy where the new player knows they won one game and believe they can win again. If you curb stomp a new player in their first game, most people will leave the game with a negative feeling and dislike the game. Some people however can't leave their egos behind and must curb stomp the noob to make themselves feel good.

Can't we find a blessed middle between throwing the fight and curb stomping? In my experience I'd rather have a close loss, than an overwhelming victory. More exciting.