To kill a large Havoc unit

[Bellumvinco]

My buddy uses a 15 model Havoc squad w/4 lascannon and mark of Stinky. I know what your thinking...expensive! My thoughts too, but psychologically a funny thing happens during a game, while you hunt for easier targets to kill, that non trendy Havoc unit is tareing stuff up! 4 Lascannons sitting still w/lots of bolters shifting around protecting the unit's flanks is effective. God does this unit get a high % of explosions. Grrr.

My 1st test to crack this nut was a non-jump-pack blood angel assault squad in a rhino. Just to distract the Havoc's fire and shut them up with hth. The rhino got exploded. I didn't mind, he should have fired at a better target. Knowing adjustments would be made, I needed to stay ahead of this. Jump-packs can assault sooner, but my buddy is a Lash of Submission addict, so...you see where that is going.

My solution. A 10 man tactical squad w/heavy bolter, flamer and serg w/power sword, B pistol; joined by 2 Librarian (double force, neither is the warlord) both w/force sword, bolt pistol, The Avenger and Gate of Infinity mounted in a drop-pod.

The drop-pod comes in auto 1st turn. It can be placed very aggro because of the built in gear. The 6" disembarkation lets you get in to good positions. Snap fire the Heavy B, roll 15 bolt shots, place flamer template and hopefully...successfully cast both The Avenger powers. Havoc squad can be very, very dead!

Now, your unit is in a isolated position. They may not survive, but, what plans your opp had, just went up in smoke. Everytime they look at the table, all they can see is your unit in their zone. Vanilla marines have Combat Tactics, use it!

1st chance you get one of the libbies can use Gate of Infinity to extract this unit from certain death. 415pts. + it is very fun!

My question is this: Can both Librarians use there Gate of Infinity at the begining of the same turn? Making two 24" teleports with the same squad!

[Calgar33]

I would say no, pg 57 of the Codex says "This power is used at the beginning of the Librarian's Movement phase." Once the unit moves with the first jump the second Librarian can't cast because it is no longer at the beginning of his movement phase.

[apahllo]

if a librarian uses a drop pod it doesnt generate warp charges on the first turn. i used to pull this tactic in 5th by dropping to librarians with gates and vortex of doom, both epistolaries.
but yes this tactic uses the right stuff to deal with the havocs. maybe take a master of the forge and place it far enough away with a conversion beamer to take out large chunks of that squad at once. this will let you kill them off with supporting units.

or stay away from using armor

[Bellumvinco]

if a librarian uses a drop pod it doesnt generate warp charges on the first turn.

I believe this is absolutely wrong. So far I have not been able to find any thing that supports this statement. Looked at Deep Strike, Generating Warp Charge, 6th Space Marines FAQ and the codex Drop Pod rules. Sorry buddy, but it is a silly idea that a psycher isn't a psycher just because he used a drop pod.

I will however give the conversion beamer some thought. The only problem is my other support units are tied up destroying his other two heavy units supported by the rest of my force on tunrs 1 and 2. That is the main reason why I turned to the combo explained up top. That and the combo gets the job done a lot faster, while popping their power armor with ap3 and denying cover...

[apahllo]

I believe this is absolutely wrong. So far I have not been able to find any thing that supports this statement. Looked at Deep Strike, Generating Warp Charge, 6th Space Marines FAQ and the codex Drop Pod rules. Sorry buddy, but it is a silly idea that a psycher isn't a psycher just because he used a drop pod.

I will however give the conversion beamer some thought. The only problem is my other support units are tied up destroying his other two heavy units supported by the rest of my force on tunrs 1 and 2. That is the main reason why I turned to the combo explained up top. That and the combo gets the job done a lot faster, while popping their power armor with ap3 and denying cover...
Lol, ya I wish I was wrong but my local gw shop has ruled it so. (not saying my word is law, it's just the way I've been playing). I'm calling gw support tomorrow, to make sure.

Your right!!!!!!! Just can't do spells in the movement phase!!!!!!

Holy flying librarian of doom I'm glad I just reread that page. I love being wrong when I was holding myself back.

"on a turn that a psyker arrives from reserves (see pg124) he cannot attempt to manifest any psychic powers that must be manifested at the start of the movement phase"

This is dope.

[apahllo]

My reasoning was that you can't generate warp charges in reserves. But I guess you can.

[DarkLink]

Drop Pod, Sternguard, Combi-plasma or Combi-flamers. Done.

[heretic marine]

My solution. A 10 man tactical squad, joined by 2 Librarian, mounted in a drop-pod.


I thought drop pods could only hold 10 models, not 12 :confused:

[apahllo]

I thought drop pods could only hold 10 models, not 12 :confused:

Gotta love Matt ward

[heretic marine]

Gotta love Matt ward

wait............. am I missing something here?

[Thiazi]

wait............. am I missing something here?
Ward wrote Codex: Space Marines which has drop pods that can transport 12 models. Every other chapter codex since has drop pods with transport 10.

[heretic marine]

Ward wrote Codex: Space Marines which has drop pods that can transport 12 models. Every other chapter codex since has drop pods with transport 10.

WHAT THE CRAP!!! how could I miss that

sry I got off topic.

have you tried using the Legion of the damned? they are a little expensive though

[Xenith]

Erm. Vanguard?

Just get a lucius pod with a dread.

Ally with BA and take some of their vanguard.

Can havoc squads even go up to 20? I thought CSM were 20, while havocs were limited to 10.

[heretic marine]

Can havoc squads even go up to 20? I thought CSM were 20, while havocs were limited to 10.


they can, along raptors and all cult troops can get up to 20 man squads

[Bellumvinco]

[QUOTE=Xenith;240571]Erm. Vanguard?

Just get a lucius pod with a dread.

Ally with BA and take some of their vanguard.

I've had the vanguard idea. Originally I was excited thinking, I can stick them in a drop pod and assualt on 1st turn. Wrong, They must have jump packs for the ability to work. Which does two things. I'm not garranteed to even get them on turn 2 with jump packs and the drop is more of a gamble.

I've tested a Iron Clad in a drop pod. Not as effective. I'm not sure what a lucius pod is.

[Bellumvinco]

Uh...WOW! Just looked up the luciuc drop pod! NASTY!

[Chris*ta]

What's wrong with the old standby? Vindicators. Lots of vindicators.

When in doubt, take the gun that kills everything. Preferably in multiples.

[Xenith]

What's wrong with the old standby? Vindicators. Lots of vindicators.
As they likely outrange a vindicator by 24", and should have cover?

[Kevlarshark]

Remember Havocs are Chaos Space marines and do not have ATSKNF so you can break them, and force them to flee off the board (as they are probably camped in the corner or near the edge. Use barrage (to force LD tests) or sniping weapons (pinning) to ruin their day: here are a few ideas.

1. Thunderfire cannons... on paper they look weak. But, they out range the havocs, on a big squad of marines you can force a lot of saves and keep them pinned or distracted enough that they don't interfere with your army too much.

2. Take some IG allies and hammer the havocs with medusa, which also out-range the Havocs but with AP3 and no cover saves you should butcher them. Dont forget to use the barrage rules to snipe the lascannon guys.

3. Sniper scouts + Tellion. Infiltrate, snipe, pin them, use Tellion to pick off Aspiring champs and Heavy guys, then watch lascannon shots zing off your cover stealth cloak combination.

[Bellumvinco]

Just a little follow up. Played with the Lucius pattern drop pod yesterday with a Iron Clad inside. Worked like a charm! Rolled a hit on the scatter, landed in difficult terrain, the Iron Clad has MTC, used the 6" disembark move to get into position, didn't fire. Assaulted the and killed the entire havoc squad, took maybe 3 turns, lured Addaddon and terminators to deepstrike on his side of the table to deal with the Iron Clad instead of threatening my objective. Worked like a blackhole, sucked everything he had into the area. It completely won the game. This option was 220pts cheaper than my original plan. Next time I expect him to have a powerfist and or meltabomb on his champ. He ignored the pod, may place a homing beackon on it next time for a non scatter TH/SS term drop.

Didn't help him that I had 16 cannons (I use the word cannon loosely) blasting his force to bits while that was going on in his backfield. Kinda felt bad for him.

[Defenestratus]

I personally like my unit of sniper rifles. All those 6's to hit and I tell my opponent to remove the heavy weapons.

I could care less about the guys with the bolters :P

[Bellumvinco]

That is definately something to keep in mind. Bolters can be deadly in 6th. Be carefull. Moving with 24" shots. I'm tareing terminators to pieces, not with ap2, but forcing a lot of rolls vs bolter fire. All of a sudden marines are on the move and effecting targets down range. On the flip side of that, my terminators take the most casualties vs bolters and the like.

Thanks Xenith for the suggestion! If I had gone 1st, the Havocs wouldn't have fired at all.