What Eldar units get no play in the 6th?

[Lost Vyper]

What unit doesn´t get any play in your army? Especially since the 6th ed came out? For myself it´s the Banshees & Phoenix Lords. The former wicked CC-unit collects now dust in the shelves. Another one is Falcon. I use it as WS in the games i need more transports, plus i got 2 x 3 WW´s & DR´s, so that settles the FOC and are being used frequently.

[DrLove42]

The only aspect i use now are Avengers. But seeing as thats the same as I was in 5th...Falcons, Vypers even Wave Serpents all took a hit. I don't use the Nightwing anymore either

I think the P Lords got a boost, with the lack of Ap2 power weapons now.

[DarkLink]

Most of them.

[DrLove42]

Most of them.

Sad truth. Most of my army these days is FW....

[eldargal]

I've stopped playing eldar in 6th. You can make a good army list with the book still but not with units I like to play. Basically Dire Avengers, Rangers, Wraithguard, Farseers, wraithlords, fire prisms and war walkers and/or vypers are the only units which really pull their weight anymore.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

The only aspect i use now are Avengers. But seeing as thats the same as I was in 5th...Falcons, Vypers even Wave Serpents all took a hit. I don't use the Nightwing anymore either

I think the P Lords got a boost, with the lack of Ap2 power weapons now.

GRRR!! Stop moaning about Nightwings!

[Lost Vyper]

I've stopped playing eldar in 6th. You can make a good army list with the book still but not with units I like to play. Basically Dire Avengers, Rangers, Farseers, and war walkers and are the only units which really pull their weight anymore.
Agreed on those above, Hornets seem pretty nice thou, but that´s a FW thing...

[eldargal]

NEVER! They were so good, now they aren't.:(

GRRR!! Stop moaning about Nightwings!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Bless! You should try being Ezekiel, terribru Chief Librarian. At least your psykers can be higher than level 1. :(

[DrLove42]

Actually...they are all Mastery 1

They can just buy an upgrade to level 2

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Actually...they are all Mastery 1

They can just buy an upgrade to level 2


At least your psykers can be higher than level 1

Cerri, do you English? :p

Your head Psyker is level 3, mine is level 1. He's the freakin' Chief Librarian! There should be a Psyker in the Dark Angels who is more powerful than freakin' level 1!

[DrLove42]

I'm sorry that the most powerful pysker thats ever lived is classed a higher mastery level than your little Mon-Keigh book boy.

But remember - he's Mastery 2, just becomes 3 from Wargear. So most power pysker ever is equal in level to a Librarian with an Epistolary. And a lower level than Mephiston

[celestialatc]

Cerri, do you English? :p

Your head Psyker is level 3, mine is level 1. He's the freakin' Chief Librarian! There should be a Psyker in the Dark Angels who is more powerful than freakin' level 1!

GW is just telling you, the Dark Angels should not be messing with the Warp!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

*cough* Sevrin Loth *cough*

We "mon-keigh" have willpower, something that you clearly lack.

*cough* Slaanesh *cough*

[celestialatc]

*cough* Sevrin Loth *cough*

We "mon-keigh" have willpower, something that you clearly lack.

*cough* Slaanesh *cough*

The only "Mon-Keigh" with willpower are Grey Knights....the rest of you are just heretics waiting to happen.

And I am going to admit I have not played my Eldar in 6th yet, but I hoped to see people using Swooping Hawks for the haywire grenades but I guess they are still too soft for play.

[DrLove42]

A 5 man unit of Hawks should wreck just about any vehicle now. Its just keeping them alive long enough to do so

And willpower? Didn't over 50% of the legions fall to chaos?

[Night System]

My new favourite trick with the eldar book.

Take a 10 man wraith guard squad, warlock has conceal for the 5+ cover, add in karandas, he has stealth which is now confered to the unit so they have a constant 4+ cover in the open. The Phoenix lord also has infiltrate, which is confered to the squad so that you can deploy the wraith guard 18" from the enemy for a first turn bang.

If you have any friends at all after this, try adding eldrad, knowing 4 divination powers and being able to use 3 a turn, or use 2 powers while performing one power twice, will make a very disgusting death-star.

But wait!

Thanks to this huge squad all counting as one unit for deployment purposes. Deploy normally, and let your opponent deploy normally, and then with eldrads redeploy rule, move the death squad to 18 inches away. And then laugh, and enjoy your last ever game with that particular opponent :p

[imperialpower]

My Eldar army list has stayed the same, Banshees are a little worse but I still use them and still don't bother with any other heavy support choice other than Wraithlords.

[Archon Charybdis]

Take a 10 man wraith guard squad, warlock has conceal for the 5+ cover, add in karandas, he has stealth which is now confered to the unit so they have a constant 4+ cover in the open. The Phoenix lord also has infiltrate, which is confered to the squad so that you can deploy the wraith guard 18" from the enemy for a first turn bang.

Hate to tell you but that's all illegal. Exarch powers only apply to aspect warrior squads, and Karandras' stealth rule--though not an Exarch power-- specifies it only applies to Striking Scorpions.

[celestialatc]

My new favourite trick with the eldar book.

Take a 10 man wraith guard squad, warlock has conceal for the 5+ cover, add in karandas, he has stealth which is now confered to the unit so they have a constant 4+ cover in the open. The Phoenix lord also has infiltrate, which is confered to the squad so that you can deploy the wraith guard 18" from the enemy for a first turn bang.

If you have any friends at all after this, try adding eldrad, knowing 4 divination powers and being able to use 3 a turn, or use 2 powers while performing one power twice, will make a very disgusting death-star.

But wait!

Thanks to this huge squad all counting as one unit for deployment purposes. Deploy normally, and let your opponent deploy normally, and then with eldrads redeploy rule, move the death squad to 18 inches away. And then laugh, and enjoy your last ever game with that particular opponent :p

That is evil and deadly....and I will have to try it....wow, that is a scary unit.



Hate to tell you but that's all illegal. Exarch powers only apply to aspect warrior squads, and Karandras' stealth rule--though not an Exarch power-- specifies it only applies to Striking Scorpions.

Oh snap! Never mind! Phoenix lords are then not as awesome! I was hoping you could mix and match them but oh well.

[Autarch]

The only aspects I see working for my play style in 6th are Shining Spears, and Avengers. Which works for me because they are my favorite aspects and work well together with my DE allies.

Before I learned of the disembarkation rules I had big plans to do a Y'riel/Banshee/Wych death star spearhead, yet sadly the risk/rewards are just are far too risky. I still have hopes that the new Codex will somehow grant the ability to assault out of a vehicle without having to be disembarked for a turn but we'll have to wait and see.

I've never been a shooty player, always a CC guy, but until things change, its going to be Avengers, EML Hornets, and Fire Dragons, supported by a unit of Shining Spears, and DE Reavers, Wyches and Void Ravens. Still a decent amount of CC, but its not the super fast assaulty army I wanted.

[eldargal]

You know what really annoys me, the Wave Serpent continued to be a worthless piece of **** after the FAQ, but the Necron FAQ lets Necron units embark into a zooming Night Scythe making that 100pt transport go from underpriced to broken. All the WS really needed was an assault ramp but no, why buff eldar who need it when you can buff Necrons who don't. Bah.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Eldar clearly don't use enough lasers. :p

[Night System]

Hate to tell you but that's all illegal. Exarch powers only apply to aspect warrior squads, and Karandras' stealth rule--though not an Exarch power-- specifies it only applies to Striking Scorpions.

Nope, read the universal special rules. Infiltrate and stealth, if a single model in the unit had the special rule, the entire model gets the benefit. So it is true, karandas does not GIVE the wraith guard the special rule, but they do not need it to gain the benefit.

[eldargal]

Codex trumps BRB, if Karandras rule says it only applies to Striking Scorpions than that is all it applies to.

The Golden Rule when it comes to these sorts of issues is this:

Eldar Can't Have Nice Things.

[DrLove42]

You know what really annoys me, the Wave Serpent continued to be a worthless piece of **** after the FAQ, but the Necron FAQ lets Necron units embark into a zooming Night Scythe making that 100pt transport go from underpriced to broken. All the WS really needed was an assault ramp but no, why buff eldar who need it when you can buff Necrons who don't. Bah.

Just keep crossing your fingers and praying.

One day
One day
One day
One day
One day

The day we get a new codex, is the day all 40k players shall fear.

[Archon Charybdis]

Nope, read the universal special rules. Infiltrate and stealth, if a single model in the unit had the special rule, the entire model gets the benefit. So it is true, karandas does not GIVE the wraith guard the special rule, but they do not need it to gain the benefit.

Oh damn, you're right. There's the clause about non-infiltrating ICs not being able to join Infiltrators, but this would be the exact opposite. I think I remember reading that clause the first time and thinking "How many ICs are there that have Infiltrate anyway?" This could synergize quite nicely with my Wraithseer list. Plus, Karandras is a great melee deterrent to an otherwise poor CC unit.

[Night System]

Codex trumps BRB, if Karandras rule says it only applies to Striking Scorpions than that is all it applies to.

The Golden Rule when it comes to these sorts of issues is this:

Eldar Can't Have Nice Things.

True codex does trump.
But the codex doesn't say that karandas only gets infiltrate and stealth if he is with a squad of scorps, he gets them If he is by himself, or interestingly, with some wraithguard.

True it's mean. True it is a bit of rules wrangling. But the eldar book needs all the love it can get at the moment :)

[eldargal]

True, the codex says the ability is conferred on Striking Scorpions, not that it only affacts Striking Scorpions and the FAQ only applies to exarch powers. This will be rectified in the next FAQ in accordance with the quoted golden rule.

[DrLove42]

I generally assume the golden rule is "**** on the Eldar" these days....

[Archon Charybdis]

So actually on topic, the only thing I've really dropped are Banshees--most of the things I didn't take in 5th I still wouldn't take in 6th (Vypers, Shining Spears, Falcons, etc.). The AP3 change I could deal with (most 2+ opponents I see are TH/SS termies anyway), but having to sit a round outside of the transport or footslog it the whole way is just not workable.

That said, I'm actually using Rangers/Pathfinders again with the changes to sniper weapons and the general reduction in enemy cover makes them much deadlier (and Infiltrate still allows me to get a nice 2+ or 3+ cover save in Ruins). The reduction in cover and the drop in utility/survivability for Transports is making me consider throwing Dark Reapers back in. A Crack Shot/Tempest Launcher Exarch could wipe whole squads himself in 5th ed, and now with most cover being 5+ the regular reapers are better off again as well.

[JMichael]

I don't take Outflanking Scorpions anymore due to not being able to assault when they arrive. I also don't take Banshees (though I mostly replaced them with Fire Dragons anyway) anymore because they cannot really survive the turn of shooting before they can assault.

Night Spinners (which I loved in 5th and even more in 6th) are my snipers now. Centering that Str 6 rending on a hvy weapon or character is nasty. Also covering multiple Dark Eldar raiders with one blast (no more -1 for being AP-) has also proved effective.
I don't normally take Dark Reapers, but sniping with the Tempest Launcher and Crack Shot has got to be fun!

[Defenestratus]

Everyone slagging off about the Nightwing needs to - I donno, actually use it. So far mine have ruled the skies whenever I field them.

I'm building my lists pretty much the same. I actually am taking Phoenix lords more often now since 2+ armor is the bomb and you can now challenge the "hidden fist" to get rid of that pesky thing.

Mostly my lists are composed these days of Wraithlords, Warp Hunters, Pathfinder Rangers, and Dire Avengers. I only field Wraithguard when I can take 20 of them and I always back them up with a squad of scorpions.

I also gave some play to some shining spears - and they .. well... did ok. They are still waay too fragile for what they need to do and must be ushered around by a seer council on bikes to be worth a damn.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Everyone slagging off about the Nightwing needs to - I donno, actually use it. So far mine have ruled the skies whenever I field them.

Yey! Someone who likes the Nightwing. :D

[eldargal]

The Nightwing is ok, but it is much better at attacking light vehicles than it is flyers despite that being its supposed role. It is also overpriced. Drop the price, let it be taken in squadrons or give it Intercept and we would have a really good unit. As it is it just average. I've played nearly twenty games with the damned things so I do know what I'm talking about, though obviously other people experiences may differ.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

/troll

[Lost Vyper]

So actually on topic, the only thing I've really dropped are Banshees--most of the things I didn't take in 5th I still wouldn't take in 6th (Vypers, Shining Spears, Falcons, etc.). The AP3 change I could deal with (most 2+ opponents I see are TH/SS termies anyway), but having to sit a round outside of the transport or footslog it the whole way is just not workable.

That said, I'm actually using Rangers/Pathfinders again with the changes to sniper weapons and the general reduction in enemy cover makes them much deadlier (and Infiltrate still allows me to get a nice 2+ or 3+ cover save in Ruins). The reduction in cover and the drop in utility/survivability for Transports is
making me consider throwing Dark Reapers back in. A Crack Shot/Tempest Launcher Exarch could wipe whole squads himself in 5th ed, and now with most cover being 5+ the regular reapers are better off again as well.

so true, DR´s came back with a vengeance and Pathfinders are awesome. I never use any other troops than DA´s & PF´s.

[Mr.Pickelz]

Personally I'm finding trouble with Harliequins, getting a good Fluff troop choice to coincide with a "Pure" Harlequin themed list is agonizing. Wraithguard as webway/Library Sentinels, Ranges/Pathfinders as Exodite hunters, just doesn't do it for me. :(

But to off an answer to the orginal question, Pretty much all of them. Avengers are good, because they're troops if they weren't then they would still suck. Howling Banshees, Scorpions, Hawk-Men, Dark Reapers, all have their place within the codex, but not within the game as a whole. They all cost too much for what they put out, and with 6th's nerfing/ boosting of stuff, the BRB has thrown the players(eldar ones) a wicked curve-ball in that the changes brought with 6th edition have re-worked the internal balance of the codex and (imo) offers Eldar as more of an "Allied Detachment" codex rather than a "Whole" codex.

Edit: Eldar do have a couple of good builds, but are looking more and more like Tau with Codex Unit Nullifications running rampant. :(

[Sainhann]

My new favourite trick with the eldar book.

Take a 10 man wraith guard squad, warlock has conceal for the 5+ cover, add in karandas, he has stealth which is now confered to the unit so they have a constant 4+ cover in the open. The Phoenix lord also has infiltrate, which is confered to the squad so that you can deploy the wraith guard 18" from the enemy for a first turn bang.

If you have any friends at all after this, try adding eldrad, knowing 4 divination powers and being able to use 3 a turn, or use 2 powers while performing one power twice, will make a very disgusting death-star.

But wait!

Thanks to this huge squad all counting as one unit for deployment purposes. Deploy normally, and let your opponent deploy normally, and then with eldrads redeploy rule, move the death squad to 18 inches away. And then laugh, and enjoy your last ever game with that particular opponent :p

Depends on what you are facing. Since with my Imperial Guard army which is nearly nothing but Guardsmen losing a few means nothing.

Because I sure hope those Wraithguard know how to dance.

[Sainhann]

Codex trumps BRB, if Karandras rule says it only applies to Striking Scorpions than that is all it applies to.

The Golden Rule when it comes to these sorts of issues is this:

Eldar Can't Have Nice Things.

Ah, that was not always true.

There once was a time when the Eldar were the unbeatable army. Though that was back when the Eldar Guardians still have a weapon that could reach out and touch someone (I.E. 24" range Shuriken Catapults), plus the War Walker was a God with its 2+ Invul Save (as long as you were not in close combat with it), when Swooping Hawks could move 36" and drop three Krak Grenades during their movement.

Ah the good old days.

Then they got nerfed to hell and back.

But even while their book is old and they are all overprice you can still put together a decent army.

Because many units that really have not seen play for like 3 Editions are now worth while again. Swooping Hawks destroy vehicles you just need to use them wisely so that they don't get shot to pieces.

Units of Storm Guardians can be useful just because they can get either two Flamers or two Fusion pistols. Model them with two pistols and they get the Gunfighter rule.

Warp Spiders also are great at destroying light vehicles. Plus they can put out a ton of strength 6 shots so useful against flyers as well.

Squadron of Warwalkers can also put a ton of shots and the new Hull points actually mean that they just might last longer, since a unit of three is 6 hull points. Get them behind some cover and that could shake off more of those hits.

Vypers also benefit from the new hull point system as well. Keep them in reserve and bring them on where you opponent is making a major push. They can also put out a alot of shots and a Squadron of three points can be kept down in the 150-170 point range.

The thing a Eldar player needs to consider is that every single unit has a use but since their are Eldar you should expect them to die.

But use them wisely for what you want and if they die so be it.

What an Eldar player should not do is worry about losing an unit. You should expect it and the longer it stays alive the better.

Plus next year they will get their new book and along with some new units and they will be GW's new flavor of the month.