Winged Conversion Kit for Tyranid Warriors - Chapterhouse Studios

[chapterhousestudios]

September sees some love for bug players out there. Always something we have been asked to do, the Shrike Conversion kit allows the modeler to add wings, taloned legs and a new head to their Games Workshop Tyranid Warrior Models.

This kit is priced at $9.00 USD here (http://chapterhousestudios.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=247) and will modify one model as shown.

http://chapterhousestudios.com/image/data/product%20images/September2012/Assembled%20Front.jpg (http://chapterhousestudios.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=247)


http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/2012/9/7/d98dad77b7c839b37ba73f39b931a138_10273.jpg__thumb (http://chapterhousestudios.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=247)

http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/2012/9/7/bd579a0520e38864c43dd73315cfe38a_10273.jpg__thumb (http://chapterhousestudios.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=247)

[DrLove42]

*Cough*

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Tyranids/TYRANID-WARRIOR-WINGS-CONVERSION-KIT.html

*Cough*

3 sets of wings for a roughly similar price

*Cough*

[Atrocity]

And DrLove wins this thread.

[ElectricPaladin]

DrLove wins all the threads.

[Caitsidhe]

DrLove wins all the threads.

Yep. The way to deal with Chapterhouse and countless others like them is to produce quality product and sell it for LESS. The dominant company uses name brand recognition as well as probable cheaper costs for production to dominate via volume. It is win for the company and win for the consumer. Chapterhouse would have to offer three sets of its conversions at that price (which would be less than GW) to make the sale, unless (of course) you just like the different style of wings and feet better at CH.

[Deadlift]

And DrLove wins this thread.

+1

[Psychosplodge]

So now they're making up variants of winged tyranid warrior and naming them? Seems a bit silly...

O/T I don't like the "fingers" getting wider rather than thinner towards the tips.


And DrLove wins this thread.

+2

[Build]

And DrLove wins this thread.

+3

Slight difference in sculpture quality too there. ;)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

And DrLove wins this thread.

+4

[ElectricPaladin]

Personally, I have no problem with other companies selling products that could be used alongside GW's. Competition can only improve the situation for the consumers. More options for conversion can only improve painting and modeling as art forms.

That said, DrLove's response was clever. And it does make me happy when GW gets with the program, and dramatically ups their game!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Well done to DrLove42 on winning ALL the games.

[JxKxR]

I don't care for it. The wings and legs make the body look small. The bones in the wings are to fat and the tips of the wings are WAY to fat. Also you should have added a different tail. It looks like it needs a big tail to stabilize it in flight.

As far as the price between forgeworld and ChapterHouse. The ChapterHouse ones are in USD. The conversion for Forgeworld with the pound rounding up is $24.

[Psychosplodge]

Is that taking into account the 3:1 FW:CHS ratio?

[JxKxR]

Well $24 for 3 is a lot better than 1 for $12 but you only get the wings. With the Chapterhouse ones you get the legs head and wings for $12. The forgeworld ones come out at $8 bucks for a pair without the additional legs and head.

What kind of shipping are we looking at from each company?

[Psychosplodge]

dunno, you only really need the wings though.... think forgeworld is something like 10% for UK P&P.

Doesn't matter anyway, warriors have legs for running they can use them....

[JxKxR]

The legs wouldn't look right to me if they were up in the air, and while I don't care for the chapterhouse legs that much I still think they are better than the stock legs or using the talons in the leg joints like forgeworld did. I suppose it will come down to preference over price.

[Psychosplodge]

lol, i meant at the price of nid warriors, they don't need wings, they can walk....

[Chris*ta]

And it does make me happy when GW gets with the program, and dramatically ups their game!

GW (or, more specfically, FW) IS the program in this case. It is Chapterhouse that is attempting to get with it. How long has FW had their wings out it's at least 3 or 4 years, isn't it?

For that matter, is Chapterhouse not aware of that court case going on currently? Wouldn't it be best to avoid drawing attention to your compatibility with GW's minis so explicitly? Other bits manufacturers do it real subtle like ...

Also Dr Love; boolean operator; appropriate integer.

[Psychosplodge]

Also Dr Love; boolean operator; appropriate integer.

That's what she said?

[ElectricPaladin]

GW (or, more specfically, FW) IS the program in this case. It is Chapterhouse that is attempting to get with it. How long has FW had their wings out it's at least 3 or 4 years, isn't it?

For that matter, is Chapterhouse not aware of that court case going on currently? Wouldn't it be best to avoid drawing attention to your compatibility with GW's minis so explicitly? Other bits manufacturers do it real subtle like ...

Also Dr Love; boolean operator; appropriate integer.

Really? I thought Chapterhouse's kit came out first...

Shows what I know. I don't play 'nids, in any case.

[RGilbert26]

Really? I thought Chapterhouse's kit came out first...

Shows what I know. I don't play 'nids, in any case.

I presume you're being scarcastic?

Either way it shows how arrogant CHS is that it thinks it can keep copying GW stuff while the court case is going on.

[ElectricPaladin]

I presume you're being scarcastic?


Not at all! I really actually honestly give insufficient craps about Tyranids that I had no idea whose kit came out first.

[Kirsten]

so chapter house are going to be prosecuted for blatantly stealing copyrighted ideas, and what do they do, make the issue yet worse. what sort of morons are running that company?

[ElectricPaladin]

so chapter house are going to be prosecuted for blatantly stealing copyrighted ideas, and what do they do, make the issue yet worse. what sort of morons are running that company?

I don't think it's that cut-and-dried. On the other hand, if I sell a product that you can add to your car to make it better, or at least different, the company that owns the car can't sue me. They can make you sign something saying you won't sue them if the thing you bought from me makes the car stop working, or kills you in an accident, sure, but it's your car and what you want to buy for it, what you want to do to it, and what I want to sell for it are all none of their business.

I know that this is just an opinion. The point I'm trying to make is that the issue isn't decided yet. Any jackass with a lawyer can sue somebody. Until they win or lose, the matter is up for debate.

[Chris*ta]

Really? I thought Chapterhouse's kit came out first...

Shows what I know. I don't play 'nids, in any case.

I am looking at Forgeworld Catalogue 2007 p. 41 right now :cool:

EDIT: Forgot the quote :o

[Chris*ta]

I don't think it's that cut-and-dried. On the other hand, if I sell a product that you can add to your car to make it better, or at least different, the company that owns the car can't sue me. They can make you sign something saying you won't sue them if the thing you bought from me makes the car stop working, or kills you in an accident, sure, but it's your car and what you want to buy for it, what you want to do to it, and what I want to sell for it are all none of their business.

I know that this is just an opinion. The point I'm trying to make is that the issue isn't decided yet. Any jackass with a lawyer can sue somebody. Until they win or lose, the matter is up for debate.

You are technically correct. The best kind of correct.

Just in the past GW has thrown C and D letters around when people reference their copyrights/trademarks on websites before.

And, when you've already got the giant's attention, you should probably stop poking it with the stick ;)

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Why is this spreading. Can't we just confine the grumping to one thread? Pretty please? :(

Anyways, it's a decent model for a company without a fleet of sculptors and auto-CAD/3-up tech. Flying feet are a nice touch.

[Chris*ta]

Why is this spreading. Can't we just confine the grumping to one thread? Pretty please? :(

NO!!! This is the internet! It must be filled with hate!

And cute pictures of kittens.

Among the things the internet must be filled with are hate and cute pictures of kittens. And porn!

I'll come in again ...

[ElectricPaladin]

You are technically correct. The best kind of correct.

Just in the past GW has thrown C and D letters around when people reference their copyrights/trademarks on websites before.

And, when you've already got the giant's attention, you should probably stop poking it with the stick ;)

Remember TSR? Rumor has it they once tried to copywrite "****" for their Indiana Jones RPG. :p

EDIT: Are you serious? I can't type "N A Z I?" For real?

FURTHER EDIT: Although imagining all the other things that could have been under those four stars is kind of funny. Imagine TSR trying to copywrite **** or ****? That would have been hilarious.

[scadugenga]

Remember TSR? Rumor has it they once tried to copywrite "****" for their Indiana Jones RPG. :p

EDIT: Are you serious? I can't type "N A Z I?" For real?

FURTHER EDIT: Although imagining all the other things that could have been under those four stars is kind of funny. Imagine TSR trying to copywrite **** or ****? That would have been hilarious.

Yup, you can't write the other "N" word.

Which is why we coined the term "Hobby Stalin" instead.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

I am going to be honest, I think this kit is absolutely hideous. The kit didnt need a new head, the warrior normal ones look amazing. Though I do like the addition of the feet, but even then, if I got this kit instead of the forgeworld one, I would never use the head so it would be a huge waste for me. The feet are cool, but the head and the wings are just ugly.

[Mr Mystery]

Mmm. Superfluous and therefore pointless.

[Psychosplodge]

Why is this spreading. Can't we just confine the grumping to one thread? Pretty please? :(
.

No because the circular arguments keep getting the threads locked :eek:

Since when has nazzi been considered an "N" word?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

The CHS vs GW debates are the pinnacle of tediousness.
Anymore that pop up that aren't the official news from the court rooms will be removed.

[JamesP]

Remember TSR? Rumor has it they once tried to copywrite "****" for their Indiana Jones RPG. :p

TSR went even further that that. Remember their Marvel superhero RPG? There were copious lists of trademarks and copyrights in each book and some of them included the names of the various cosmic beings/ powers that Marvel had invented, including various awesomely powered personifications of natural forces.

As someone pointed out in WD when it reviewed non-GW stuff, this meant that TSR and Marvel had copyrighted 'death'...


FURTHER EDIT: Although imagining all the other things that could have been under those four stars is kind of funny. Imagine TSR trying to copywrite **** or ****? That would have been hilarious.

Maybe suggest that for D&D Next? 'To reflect the lethal combat powers of [insert monster's name here], they should have a special ability called "**** that **** up" where every enemy with a certain distance gets the **** kicked out of it.' :)

[Denzark]

@ TDA - au contraire - if the CHS vs GW is generating this much discussion, somebody(ies) evidently find it interesting. Personally would prefer the mods to stop any of the overly partisan whining (from either side) rather than try and keep it all to one thread - particularly when it will get to one squillion pages of drivel uber quickly.

A discussion of the relative artistic merits of a CHS part for which there is a direct comparison from GW/FW (of course there is they are rip-off merchants) is quite interesting.

I would like to know how close we are to CHS playing Mummys and Daddys in the big house with their new room-mates, or will they 'merely' lose all their money?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Well if you want to know how close they are to resolving the issue surely it's best to wait until Red posts the latest from the courthouse?? Jus' sayin'.

As for artistic discussion, that's fine, but it never STAYS as artistic discussion.

I don't understand the compulsion for X vs. Y arguments. Microsoft vs Sony, PC vs Mac, Games Workshop vs Privateer Press, Xbox vs PS3, Halo vs Call of Duty, Call of Duty vs Battlefield... etc etc.
All of these arguments are COMPLETELY pointless, people are different from each other, so everyone has a different opinion, why try and convince others that your opinion is the best? Surely that's a bit dictator-ish??

[DrLove42]

Well technically this isn't Sony vs Microsoft. This isn't two companies that are equal but different and is mostly personal preference these days.

If Sony had stolen microsofts IP's, sold a game called Balo with the Master Chief, admitted stealing ideas from Microsoft, made cheap shoddy copies of Microsofts assest and then tried to sue them....then they'd be vaguelly similar situations

[Psychosplodge]

But one side is opinion the other uses facts, macs are limited - it's a fact, it's an opinion that some people prefer them.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I was listing examples of X vs Y arguments, Doc.

And that is YOUR opinion, Psycho.

[Psychosplodge]

lol, there's always facts involved...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

You don't know the fact unless you are the CEO, the Accountant or Design Lead for that Company, people have been ripping each other off for YEARS.

The perfect example is the world of automobiles, someone puts spangly tech in their car, then someone else steals it and makes it prettier, etc etc.

[Psychosplodge]

Not the car analogies...

Haven't you seen them do the hardware tear downs on youtube?
They dismantle everything and look at the tech involved...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yes! Then other car manufacturers steal their ideas and put them to use in their cars.

[Psychosplodge]

but only ford can build mustang bonnets with horses on...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Anyway....

[chapterhousestudios]

Price lowered to $9.00 a set, I think more customers will see the value of the kit at this price.

[Psychosplodge]

Slashing 25% straight off? Impressive...

[Caitsidhe]

Price lowered to $9.00 a set, I think more customers will see the value of the kit at this price.

I certainly do. Money talks and BS walks. I like the leg design better than the GW one. I think the wings are different but equally appealing. At that price, I'll be putting in an order for enough to get a full unit upgraded. I need to order some more jump packs.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

:rolleyes:

[DrLove42]

But still...at $9 each a set of 3 is $27. Converting bucks to pounds, thats about £18

Makes the FW ones £2 cheaper still

And the FW ones you will ahve 3 differnet designs instead of the same pose three times. Not to mention better quality...and that look beeter IMO

[Caitsidhe]

:rolleyes:

What is there to be sarcastic about? This is why competition is good for the consumer. Price points count at least with penny-pinching misers like me.

[Caitsidhe]

I don't dig the Forge World feet on them. There is a fair number of Forge World models (and vehicle upgrades) among my army, but brand name alone doesn't make it for me. I have to like the look of a specific model and I really hate the feet on that one. I despise the CSM jump packs too which is why I ordered the CH ones which just "look right" to me. I like there being lots of vendors because I have more to choose from.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I wasn't being sarcastic, now I am.

And people call me Jewish...

[Chris Copeland]

I believe that is the point: if you aren't doing anything illegal you don't have to hide. CHS isn't doing anything wrong or illegal so they should just carry on... which is what they are doing. Bully for them!

PS Hey Chapterhouse: thank you for providing good, affordable accessories for me to purchase. I really appreciate it. I'm digging the news Nid wings. I might have to buy some. I LOVE the jump packs I just received! I have a suggestion. There is an accessory that I need and no one is making it: beaky heads! I want to do a whole army of beakies but can't find them anywhere. How about making some "Beak Shaped Knight Helmets, compatible with GW Space Marine models." I will buy many of them! Cheers! Cope

PS You see? After-market products. Stuff made FOR other stuff. Go Capitalism!


GW (or, more specfically, FW) IS the program in this case. It is Chapterhouse that is attempting to get with it. How long has FW had their wings out it's at least 3 or 4 years, isn't it?

For that matter, is Chapterhouse not aware of that court case going on currently? Wouldn't it be best to avoid drawing attention to your compatibility with GW's minis so explicitly? Other bits manufacturers do it real subtle like ...

[RGilbert26]

I really can't fathom why or how you think that Chris. Either way im not going to get in a conversation with you over it as i've read your previous posts and can clearly see there's no point as you are unable to understand why what CHS does is wrong (regardless of how GW have acted over the years).

[Uncle Nutsy]

this is going to be another GW vs CHS thread. whoopeeee.

[JamesP]

this is going to be another GW vs CHS thread. whoopeeee.

Maybe someone will set up a company that produces copies of GW AND Chapterhouse kits, so everyone in the Lounge can bury their differences and have a go at them instead? :)

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Slashing 25% straight off? Impressive...

I would be more impressed if the wings and head weren't hideous, though the legs are a nice addition and look cool, but bleh

[wittdooley]

I believe that is the point: if you aren't doing anything illegal you don't have to hide. CHS isn't doing anything wrong or illegal so they should just carry on... which is what they are doing. Bully for them!

PS Hey Chapterhouse: thank you for providing good, affordable accessories for me to purchase. I really appreciate it. I'm digging the news Nid wings. I might have to buy some. I LOVE the jump packs I just received! I have a suggestion. There is an accessory that I need and no one is making it: beaky heads! I want to do a whole army of beakies but can't find them anywhere. How about making some "Beak Shaped Knight Helmets, compatible with GW Space Marine models." I will buy many of them! Cheers! Cope

PS You see? After-market products. Stuff made FOR other stuff. Go Capitalism!

Then you aren't looking hard enough, Chris. You can buy them from MANY bits shops. Additionally, FW sells full Corvus armor sets which include them.

I'm kinda disappointed in your viewpoint here. You're normally so levelheaded and reasonable, but I don't get your unabashed support of CHS here.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Then you aren't looking hard enough, Chris. You can buy them from MANY bits shops. Additionally, FW sells full Corvus armor sets which include them.

I'm kinda disappointed in your viewpoint here. You're normally so levelheaded and reasonable, but I don't get your unabashed support of CHS here.Can you point me towards one of the shops? I want some :P

Keep in mind a fairly common viewpoint (mine included) is "Accessories are fair game". The bits market is flooded with aftermarket 40k bits, and seeing someone actually call them that is pretty refreshing. Not irrational at all.

Whether or not it'll be ruled as legal is dependent on a slew of legal technicalities in the delightful mishmash of US and UK law going on. "Accessories are legal under US law! We're trying you with UK law! UK IP/copyright is less applicable to toys, rather than sculptures!" etc ad nauseam.

[Chris Copeland]

I'm kinda disappointed in your viewpoint here. You're normally so levelheaded and reasonable, but I don't get your unabashed support of CHS here. Witt, I appreciate the kind words. I am also confused by some of the opinions on this forum. Ah well, the world would be a boring place if we all agreed with each other all of the time.

I think the whole CHS vs GW thing is far more nuanced than all of the armchair lawyers out there think it is. I also have a healthy respect for folks making after-market products. I don't think that making something FOR something else is wrong nor do I think it impinges upon the IP of the maker of the first thing.

I honestly don't think that there is much more to say about the legalities. Unless someone in the Lounge is an honest-to-God lawyer I doubt any of us will shed much light on this legal fight before the courts rule.

So, my position remains the same: CHS shouldn't hide or cower if they aren't in the wrong. They should continue to make high quality accessories for my plastic army men. Right now I'd like to see them sell some beak-shaped-knight-helmets that are compatible with GW Space Marine models. Cheers friends!

[lattd]

Chris, no one is saying its wrong to make third party bits, its when you create said product, don't overly differentiate the design and then say its x chapter shoulder pad. I am entitled to make a car bonnet and say its for x car, but when i make a car bonnet and say x car bonnet, it implies ownership of that design and that its an original thats the issue, the language used is more of a problem than anything else.

[Psychosplodge]

I would be more impressed if the wings and head weren't hideous, though the legs are a nice addition and look cool, but bleh

Did I miss the sarcasm tags? I meant they're clearly overpriced to be able to take such an instant cut, plus as Docs rightly pointed out better alternatives are readily available.

@CC, I do agree it would be nice if every marine came with the option of a mk 6 or mk 7 helmet to allow you to do that.

[Big_jon]

Those look all right, I think I'd rather fork out for the FW ones though, or wait for GW to release them.

[daboarder]

Witt, I appreciate the kind words. I am also confused by some of the opinions on this forum. Ah well, the world would be a boring place if we all agreed with each other all of the time.

I think the whole CHS vs GW thing is far more nuanced than all of the armchair lawyers out there think it is. I also have a healthy respect for folks making after-market products. I don't think that making something FOR something else is wrong nor do I think it impinges upon the IP of the maker of the first thing.

I honestly don't think that there is much more to say about the legalities. Unless someone in the Lounge is an honest-to-God lawyer I doubt any of us will shed much light on this legal fight before the courts rule.

So, my position remains the same: CHS shouldn't hide or cower if they aren't in the wrong. They should continue to make high quality accessories for my plastic army men. Right now I'd like to see them sell some beak-shaped-knight-helmets that are compatible with GW Space Marine models. Cheers friends!

You'd have a better point if they didn't blatantly rip off GW IP to sell their after market parts without any of the appropriate royalties cost.

Hell leaving the armchair lawyer out of it you don't need to be jesus to realize that what CHS does is MORALLY WRONG! stealing someone else's idea to make a quick buck.

[Psychosplodge]

Why would changing your name give you increased morality? O_o

[Wolfshade]

I would have to agree with Chris on one point. If you consider your business to be legal, then there is no reason to stop trading because you are currently engaged in a court case challenging this. Until it has been ruled one way, or the other, they are entitled to continue to trade, after all we could still buy Samsung products during their case.
Arguements about what is morally acceptable go out of the window, as this is business , and morales are subjective, what you might find to be moralistic, I might find to be against mine.
For a moment I thought that this was a direct cast from the FW ones, but they must be their own version, though I have to admit I prefer the FW ones plus as someone else said you've got different posses.

[Caitsidhe]

Why would changing your name give you increased morality? O_o

Because it isn't immoral to try and make a buck on an idea. This is because you cannot copyright an "idea." Creating their own, original models with their own names for "use with" products produced by other companies is simply business. The courts will decide the legality of it. The morality of it is best left to the philosophers and Gods. If you want to talk about morality and business, we might as well go for the "big game," like companies which patent life saving drugs but let thousands of people die (who cannot afford the cost) until such time as their patent forces them to allow a generic or cheaper version on the market. My personal view is that morality should be discussed in cases like this. Trying to discuss morality in regards to luxury purchases in the toy market rather cheapens the whole business.

[Psychosplodge]

I meant WTF does being called Jesus have to do with morality...in reply to the before but ok sock :D
And morality in a healthcare debate with someone from the US is generally pointless.




Hell leaving the armchair lawyer out of it you don't need to be jesus to realize that what CHS does is MORALLY WRONG! stealing someone else's idea to make a quick buck.

[Caitsidhe]

And morality in a healthcare debate with someone from the US is generally pointless.

So everyone in the U.S. is amoral or evil in regards to health care? :) More and more I tend to see a subtext in many of these threads wherein the GW vs. CH situation is really just a place for people to vent their spleen in general, i.e. this seems more about nationality and emotion than specifics of the case. While I see plenty of amusing, juvenile shots at the people int he U.S. from those who are from somewhere else, I don't tend to see any American taking cheap shots at other countries or generalizing the entire population. I suppose we could take this to mean the American people on this forum tend to be more civil and consider that out of bounds, or these other countries are all so perfect there are no cheap shots to be taken? :) Which is more likely I wonder?

[Psychosplodge]

No, but it's like banging a head against a wall, as general consensus appears to be that nobody wants to pay a bit more tax, not need insurance and ensure everyone has access to healthcare. Obama is painted as the devil incarnate for whatever it is he tried to do, so honestly whats the point?
You could say that if you want, but if yo venture elsewhere rather tha just the CHS threads you'd find we take the piss out of each other just as much...

[Caitsidhe]

No, but it's like banging a head against a wall, as general consensus appears to be that nobody wants to pay a bit more tax, not need insurance and ensure everyone has access to healthcare. Obama is painted as the devil incarnate for whatever it is he tried to do, so honestly whats the point?

This is off topic but your going into it at all demonstrates my point. There are plenty of places people can go to bash other countries (the United States in particular) but that isn't really what this place is supposed to be about. I am an American and find the cheap shots both amusing and sad. They demonstrate a poor knowledge of my country and the people in it. What you watch on the news and the reality on the ground are not the same thing. I will remind you that Obama got elected so there are plenty of people in the United States who don't think he is the devil. These same things were said about him the first time he ran. :) I do not take kindly to you feeling I think as represented by Fox News simply because I am an American, anymore than you would take kindly to me assuming some VERY vile things about you based upon where you live. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I don't want to get too far off topic either. It suffices to say that more and more I am seeing people come down on CH because they have "other" things they want to vent and this is a convenient topic to do it in. It adds nothing to the debate.


You could say that if you want, but if yo venture elsewhere rather tha just the CHS threads you'd find we take the piss out of each other just as much...

I read lots of the other threads and comment in them if/when it interests me. Here I am commenting on a trend that seems very heavily weighted. Jingoism isn't attractive to anyone except the person indulging in it and others from the same country. It is tantamount to kids in the schoolyard trying to build themselves up by tearing some other kid down. I'm all for getting down to the brass of the case of GW versus CH, but I've very little interest in this veiled U.S. versus U.K. soccer match some want to make it.

[Psychosplodge]

*football

Anyway not much must interest you. The other thing is it's normally all in fun, there's a good thread somewhere with some banter with darklink, you however seem to have taken it personally, where's the fun in that?

[Caitsidhe]

*football

Anyway not much must interest you. The other thing is it's normally all in fun, there's a good thread somewhere with some banter with darklink, you however seem to have taken it personally, where's the fun in that?

It is personal. Among friends, I might react differently, but you and I are not friends. You are just the guy who said it is pointless to debate morality with an American in regards to Health Care. There are only a few ways your comment can be interpreted:

1. A poor jest in "fun" which is both insulting, unwarranted, and off topic.
2. You feel Americans are amoral or evil.
3. A combination of both of the above.

Now when called on it you are being passive aggressive and telling me not to be so thin-skinned. I think that about covers the possibilities. I won't ask you to tell us which one listed is correct because it is irrelevant. The thread is about Games Workshop Versus Chapterhouse, not my country versus your country. I realize the specifics of the case are kind of boring, but that is the subject at hand. *Or more accurately this thread is about Chapterhouse's new conversion kit. :)

[Psychosplodge]

When I said it's pointless it is, because no matter where you sit on the fence. It's probably not going to change anything.
Morality is subjective as evidenced quite easily in this thread.
I am being more sarcastic but if you prefer passive aggressive feel free, you are been thin skinned at the same time.
I realise you've obviously not quite got the hang of this yet but persevere you'll get there.

[DrLove42]

Third (or 4th) wya of interpretting;

You reliase that 2 different countries have two different opinons on a subject, and no amount of grown up reasonable discussion will change either sides mind

And believe me, we've had this discussion. And one on gun control. And relgious rights. And politics. Healthcare. Military choices. Freedom of Speech. Wikileaks.

We've had these discussions and more as grown up individuals, and we respect that a healthy debate is fun, but that the difference in cultures makes it hard to see the others side.

Healthcare is a particular obvious one as we don't see how your country would say "Hey, this tax raise is less than my health insurance, and it will means that I get free unlimited healthcare and heavily subsidised drugs and the same is available to all of our society. Nope don't want that...." cos we have that system. And it works just fine here. But thats cos your country is different. If we were all the same it'd be really freaking boring.

[Psychosplodge]

Ah a more eloquent individual appears,
He uses logic and reasonableness

They're super effective?

[Caitsidhe]

Third (or 4th) wya of interpretting;

You reliase that 2 different countries have two different opinons on a subject, and no amount of grown up reasonable discussion will change either sides mind

And believe me, we've had this discussion. And one on gun control. And relgious rights. And politics. Healthcare. Military choices. Freedom of Speech. Wikileaks.

We've had these discussions and more as grown up individuals, and we respect that a healthy debate is fun, but that the difference in cultures makes it hard to see the others side.

Healthcare is a particular obvious one as we don't see how your country would say "Hey, this tax raise is less than my health insurance, and it will means that I get free unlimited healthcare and heavily subsidised drugs and the same is available to all of our society. Nope don't want that...." cos we have that system. And it works just fine here. But thats cos your country is different. If we were all the same it'd be really freaking boring.

There is a big difference between suddenly wanting to talk about health care, gun control, and so on and making a blanket statement that Americans don't have any morality. :) I'd be more than happy (in other threads) to discuss those things, but I don't see their bearing on the CH discussion. I also don't see the point of being personally offensive.

[Psychosplodge]

There is a big difference between suddenly wanting to talk about health care, gun control, and so on and making a blanket statement that Americans don't have any morality. :) I'd be more than happy (in other threads) to discuss those things, but I don't see their bearing on the CH discussion. I also don't see the point of being personally offensive.

There is, but who said that?
As I said morality is clearly subjective.
The only person that said Americans dont have any morality is you right there ^


Americans don't have any morality

[Caitsidhe]

There is, but who said that?
As I said morality is clearly subjective.
The only person that said Americans dont have any morality is you right there ^

Seriously, are you going to try and mince words and pretend you weren't making an inference now? Why don't you specifically break down and elaborate you statement about why it is worthless to discuss morality and health care with an American? If you mean something other than how I took it, then the problem is solved. The key things about what you said are "pointless to discuss morality" and "with an American." You have designated that there is something specific about Americans and morality here. You did not say:

"It is pointless to discuss morality because morality is subjective."

If you had said that you wouldn't have heard a word from me. Your comments were specific and limited to Americans. So by all means, please explain why we are "different' and such discussions are pointless. I would also like to know how it bears on thread.

[Psychosplodge]

And I clearly said underneath when you questioned it


When I said it's pointless it is, because no matter where you sit on the fence. It's probably not going to change anything.
Morality is subjective as evidenced quite easily in this thread.

And then DrLove42 said essentially what I'm not eloquent enough to right under that.

But considering the VILE things you apparently think about were I'm from carry on...nothing I'll say will change your mind to anything....

[wittdooley]

@Caitsidhe -- If you'd actually read any of the other boards on this forum and not simply troll the CHS ones, you'd be provided the information you need to place Psycho's quote in context. We've had a multitude of merry-go-round discussions about health care in the Obliette, which Psycho and the other people (besides yourself) contributing to THIS thread participated in. It was a subtle reference to another, much longer, much more in depth discussion. So again, get yourself some context and perspective before sounding like such an ignorant azzhat.

*EDIT -- Further, he was clearly kidding. I realize your thread count doesn't allow you similar perspective to your fellow forum mates; I'd suggest you actually attemp to learn about them first before spouting off.

[Caitsidhe]

@Caitsidhe -- If you'd actually read any of the other boards on this forum and not simply troll the CHS ones, you'd be provided the information you need to place Psycho's quote in context. We've had a multitude of merry-go-round discussions about health care in the Obliette, which Psycho and the other people (besides yourself) contributing to THIS thread participated in. It was a subtle reference to another, much longer, much more in depth discussion. So again, get yourself some context and perspective before sounding like such an ignorant azzhat.

Again, being an azzhat, what bearing does his comment have on this discussion? If I wanted to join a discussion wherein I am generalized in the worst possible way because of my nation of birth, I would have done so. I entered into the one about Chapterhouse and one of their conversions.


*EDIT -- Further, he was clearly kidding. I realize your thread count doesn't allow you similar perspective to your fellow forum mates; I'd suggest you actually attemp to learn about them first before spouting off.

Further, it wasn't funny. It was insulting. I don't think it would be any less insulting had I read more generalizations about me and what my beliefs are about gun control, health care, taxes, and/or morality. He followed up that post with another generalizing about how what he feels Americans believe about Obama and several other things. That didn't sound much like a joke either. What is the punchline?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Would everyone please calm down.

If anyone continues this line of conversation then I shall start to issue formal warnings.

[Caitsidhe]

Returning to the original topic, I can visualize buying the Forge World AND the Chapterhouse conversion kits to get the best of both worlds. I like the CH feet better. I like the wings from Forge World marginally better. The CH wings would be useful for conversions to other models. I don't hate them, but I can think of a few models I would like them on better. If the Possessed Assault Troops rumor is true, I think those wings might be downright boss. My personal wish would be to see some more insect-like wings in general, i.e. some lanced back dragonfly configurations. The truth is the Forge World look good but don't really seem (to me at least) to fit Tyranids either. In the end, I like being able to come up with semi-unique (at least) units to put on the table.

[Chris Copeland]

Wow. This thread has ranged far and wide afield!

Off-topic: I am an American who thinks that the American medical system is immoral and insane! We pay significantly more per capita for health care than anyone else in the world for worse results. The Brits, French, and pretty much the rest of the West have already figured out that Universal Care is better and cheaper than the you-are-on-your-own-pay-as-you-go American system.

Back on topic: I am not opposed to folks building businesses on the foundation of works that others did. In America you can write an encyclopedia ABOUT another author's work. It is perfectly legal to do so. I could, if I wanted, write The Unofficial Encyclopedia of the Works of Stephen King. I could sell said book for money. I gather that one CAN'T do that in Great Brittain. I seem to recall that someone tried to write an Encyclopedia of the World of Harry Potter and that JK Rowling shut that writer down. There is a basic disconnect between the American POV and the British POV on this. Perhaps this is why I have no problem with folks like the guys at Chapter House and many of my European friends do have a problem with them.

PS Chapterhouse: if you are following this thread I will buy a BUNCH of Beak-Shaped-Knight-Heads-That-Are-Compatible-With-GW-Space-Marines if you make them... just sayin'...

Cheers! Cope

[wittdooley]

Cope, how many Beakie heads do you need? I'd rather give you a bunch than have CHS make them.

[Chris Copeland]

Witt, I need about 20... I have a Paypal way to pay ya if you have that many to sell... however, I still maintain that folks who aren't criminals don't need to run when the law comes knocking... :)

[Deadlift]

Witt, I need about 20... I have a Paypal way to pay ya if you have that many to sell... however, I still maintain that folks who aren't criminals don't need to run when the law comes knocking... :)

This may make me immoral :), but Chris have thought about instant mold and green stuff to make your helmets ? It's cheap and very easy to do. Just don't tell GW ;)

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

This may make me immoral :), but Chris have thought about instant mold and green stuff to make your helmets ? It's cheap and very easy to do. Just don't tell GW ;)Ehhh, while that stuff can be awesome (made a small army with it (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?22125-H-rud-Infestation&p=222664&viewfull=1#post222664)), it's not that great for detailed/complex things, certainly not something that'd require a two-part mold.

Maybe if you molded the beak itself, then shaved down the mouth of some mk7s to attach the beak to?

[Deadlift]

Ehhh, while that stuff can be awesome (made a small army with it (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?22125-H-rud-Infestation&p=222664&viewfull=1#post222664)), it's not that great for detailed/complex things, certainly not something that'd require a two-part mold.

Maybe if you molded the beak itself, then shaved down the mouth of some mk7s to attach the beak to?

I don't know, I have a "friend" who used it to re produce scibor bases, thunderwolves and necron scarabs. All turned out just fine. It takes a little getting used to but helmets are easy enough, especially something like a beaky where there's not actually that much detail.

Oh and I loved your Hrud project, its very cool.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Thread purge commencing at 6.30pm BST.
All irrelevant comments will be moved to a new thread.

(all the fan argument comments)

-Agent

[lattd]

Making a copy for personal use its a very gray area, some countries allow it.

[Chris Copeland]

TDA, ya gotta slow down on these purges of threads about Chapterhouse. I know you don't like CHS but you might be a bit overzealous when it comes to CHS threads... just sayin'... Cope


Thread purge commencing at 6.30pm BST.
All irrelevant comments will be moved to a new thread.

(all the fan argument comments)

-Agent

[Chris Copeland]

I'm fairly certain that it's perfectly legal for me to make a cast of pretty much anything for non-commercial use here in America. Heck, if I had a 3D printer I could copy models if I so desired and as long as they weren't being sold it'd be no one's business... cheers... Cope


Making a copy for personal use its a very gray area, some countries allow it.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I'm keeping it so that CHS aren't constantly being slandered on their own threads. Do you disagree with this action?

[Caitsidhe]

TDA, ya gotta slow down on these purges of threads about Chapterhouse. I know you don't like CHS but you might be a bit overzealous when it comes to CHS threads... just sayin'... Cope

It is all in context Chris. Apparently I'm a slandering Troll for daring to say I like the Chapterhouse jetpacks (watch your step Sir since we agree on that) and don't like being made out to be a Fox News, Rush Limbaugh Ditto Head since I (like you) happen to believe in all sorts of progressive, liberal policies. Different Forum, same story. Disagree with the wrong person and you are labeled a Troll. :)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I'm not rising to this...

[Psychosplodge]

I don't think you're a troll, I think you're a sock.

There's plenty of civilised disagreement all over this forum.

[Caitsidhe]

I don't think you're a troll, I think you're a sock.

There's plenty of civilised disagreement all over this forum.

I never said there wasn't. That doesn't mean there isn't a good deal of uncivilized discourse, however, and my reaction to it apparently makes me a sock. My ignorance is showing here because I have no idea what that means in context here. I am assuming it is a slang term, most likely of a derogatory nature, but assumptions tend to make mistakes. What is a sock in this context?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Me and Wolfshade were Psychosplodge's socks for a while.

[Psychosplodge]

I thought you were a sock well before that, and said so on the last deleted CHS thread.

It's a secondary account, derived from sock puppet. I think you are the same person who started the thread.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

This is what I'm talking about. Guys, let's not have a Fan vs Fan debate here.

[Caitsidhe]

I thought you were a sock well before that, and said so on the last deleted CHS thread.

It's a secondary account, derived from sock puppet. I think you are the same person who started the thread.

Oh. You thought I was a shill, i.e. a fake account for pushing a product. I'm afraid not. My opinions are my own and entirely self serving.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Apparently me and Caitsidhe have a mutual friend.

Anyway guys, let's wrap up this argument. I'm going to be throwing this off-topic chitter-chatter into another thread. This thread is for the promotion of CHS new product.

[Psychosplodge]

Oh. You thought I was a shill, i.e. a fake account for pushing a product. I'm afraid not. My opinions are my own and entirely self serving.

lols fair enough.

[Caitsidhe]

This is what I'm talking about. Guys, let's not have a Fan vs Fan debate here.

Understood. It isn't my intent to derail anything. I am actually kind of anal retentive about trying to stay ON TOPIC. My personal experiences with Chapterhouse have all been good. I'm pretty selective about what I order, of course, so I only get what I already liked the look of on the screen. The stuff that doesn't interest me doesn't get ordered. The stuff I have ordered has been detailed, clean, and worked really well. This has nothing to do with being pro/con GW, but is merely a reflection of the product I got. The same is true of GW and Forge World. I only order things that I like how they look so overall my satisfaction is great. There have been some recent exceptions dealing with Finecast which seems to have an oddly high "damaged goods" quotient. To their credit, Games Workshop has always gotten me replacements in quick order.

*I am looking at these winged conversions for our mutual friend. That and their mycetic model (which looks great... very Lovecraftian) as possible xmas gifts.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Gods damn... You had to appeal to the Lovecraftian in me.

You win this round... :p

[Capt Forsythe]

I have avoided the CHS debate because I don't know enough about the situation. But I went to the CHS website today. The full models don't seem to have GW iconography on them and they are not named using a GW trademark. Further, the bits that are compatible are parts that are useless without having purchased the base models from GW already. Also, the represent models that are not currently produced.

So where are the damages?

A more interesting question would be what happens when GW releases models that are a specific expression of a trademark that CHS has already produced? (The tervigon) Should CHS stop producing those? Probably. The probably should do this without prodding since their 'mission' was to fill gaps in the model lineup that GW produces.

Clearly based on what I read in this thread people have staunch support of one side. But I think (based on American values of free market(ACTUAL free market, not this crony system we have now)) that CHS can only encourge GW to produce better products, their brand of competition might also help keep costs down (clearly GW is unfazed so far).

I think the reality is that they are both right and both wrong in some ways. The people who are yelling about CHS being immoral...well, come on down off the high horse, your version of morality is not the baseline from which we all must start.

[Wolfshade]

I have avoided the CHS debate because I don't know enough about the situation. But I went to the CHS website today. The full models don't seem to have GW iconography on them and they are not named using a GW trademark. Further, the bits that are compatible are parts that are useless without having purchased the base models from GW already. Also, the represent models that are not currently produced.

So where are the damages?

A more interesting question would be what happens when GW releases models that are a specific expression of a trademark that CHS has already produced? (The tervigon) Should CHS stop producing those? Probably. The probably should do this without prodding since their 'mission' was to fill gaps in the model lineup that GW produces.

Clearly based on what I read in this thread people have staunch support of one side. But I think (based on American values of free market(ACTUAL free market, not this crony system we have now)) that CHS can only encourge GW to produce better products, their brand of competition might also help keep costs down (clearly GW is unfazed so far).

I think the reality is that they are both right and both wrong in some ways. The people who are yelling about CHS being immoral...well, come on down off the high horse, your version of morality is not the baseline from which we all must start.
This is off topic, but under English law a 3D sculpt of an original drawing/description is a derivative works and as such should require a licesnse to produce.
In terms of cost, CHS only (I say only obviously it is not that simple) needs to create items which have already been designed (if only in text or pictures) and as such should provide a cheaper alternative to GW. However, in the case of the fleshtearers shoulder pads this is not the case.
The big damage is that GW can no longer defend their IP, everyone is free to copy it. The game dies as GW can no longer afford to compete in their own market. Remember, 40k isn't the market, sci-fi table top wargamming is, it just so happens that 40k is the biggest (and arguably the best).

[Caitsidhe]

\The big damage is that GW can no longer defend their IP, everyone is free to copy it. The game dies as GW can no longer afford to compete in their own market. Remember, 40k isn't the market, sci-fi table top wargamming is, it just so happens that 40k is the biggest (and arguably the best).

As you correctly point out, GW is not the hobby. It is merely the biggest resource merchant. I am not worried about GW going bankrupt even if CH got an overwhelming victory. Games Workshop would just do what they should have done in the first place:

1. Take advantage of name recognition and brand identity.
2. Cut prices to the bone where they still make a profit by volume.

This is known as the Walmart method. The small players would not be able to keep up because it is unlikely their production methods (being newer to the biz) are as efficient. Once the competition is eliminated, Games Workshop could SLOWLY raise their prices incrementally until they find the true magic spot wherein they make the most money without opening up a slot for small potatoes competitors. Would this be good for us as the consumer? Hell no. It is just the most likely thing to happen.

They should have done it a long time ago. Now they have kind of given the small potatoes people a chance to entrench, perfect their production methods, make contacts, and even innovate. Snuffing them out via the Walmart Method might, even now, be a lost cause. Once that genie is out of the bottle, you can rarely put it back in. The new technology is what new companies invest in and those new methods make it very cheap to produce models of better and better quality. Games Workshop is still partially vested in older means. This is an old business story that repeats over and over again. Adapt or die.

[Wolfshade]

I am not sure that GW haven't been investing in new technology, look at the quality and complexity of their sprues compared with what they were making just 5 years ago!
The guys of CHS size are still casting everything by hand, designing by hand, that is a long way away from new technology.
Some people see the 3D printers as the way forward, but if you look at the speed of injection moulding it has a hell of a long way to go before it is a commercially viable.
I dislike the prices, but if you look at the figures their sales are hardly stagnant or faltering, which in this recession making a luxury product is really quite impressive.
What I see as the "most likely" scenario would be FW making everything and every option that isn't available as part of the range, with it then being re-done by GW once either the water is tested or their is a large enough demand to justify the larger scale production.

[Caitsidhe]

I think we are already seeing another result (which profits the consumer). Games Workshop is doing its best to release ALL the new models at once or in a short time so as not to leave the opening for the small companies to fill the gap. The giant cyber-wolves were a big mistake. They took too long and other people produced some pretty damn good looking wolves (I like many of them better than the wolf-squirrel). If the people who needed those models already have a set, they are less likely to buy the ones put out by GW if/when they get around to it. Commonsense dictates that if Games Workshop puts out the models up front that people creating alternatives are trying to catch them rather than the other way around. The new CSM line appears to be evidence of this change. Now if only they would apply this new approach to their various books.

[Chris Copeland]

Guys, I've known Caitsidhe for many years. I can assure you he is not a shill. Cheers!

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I don't know, I have a "friend" who used it to re produce scibor bases, thunderwolves and necron scarabs. All turned out just fine. It takes a little getting used to but helmets are easy enough, especially something like a beaky where there's not actually that much detail.

Oh and I loved your Hrud project, its very cool.Bases and scarabs are pretty easy due to the flat bottoms, impressed at the T-wolves, though. (And thanks! :D)

Best of luck if you try moulding the beakies, C.C.

[Deadlift]

Guys, I've known Caitsidhe for many years. I can assure you he is not a shill. Cheers!

Differences of opinion are healthy, Sometimes we type things we regret. I know I have in past threads. Its cool to debate though as long as it stays civil. Welcome to the forums Caitsidhe.

Oh and WTF is a shill ?

[Caitsidhe]

Differences of opinion are healthy, Sometimes we type things we regret. I know I have in past threads. Its cool to debate though as long as it stays civil. Welcome to the forums Caitsidhe.

Oh and WTF is a shill ?

A "shill" is fake persona (or sometimes even a real person) who pushes some product (or scam). In the old days, a Snake Oil Salesman would get up and sing the praises of his/her product. A volunteer from the audience would come up and take it and be cured. Said person was a plant and in on it from the start. That is one version of a Shill. The internet version would be people plugging for a product. If the owner of Chapterhouse created fake persona and came on the forums to have them give rave reviews, that would be another example. You can read White Dwarf magazine which is nothing but one huge advertisement filled with Shills (of course in this case we all know they are fake so we just shrug). Shills are an advertising technique in some cases and illegal scams in others. It varies. I think it is entirely unethical even when legal.

[Psychosplodge]

http://youtu.be/_o1UXSxTjfo

The one that goes "coppers" is the shill

It's always more fun with videos ^_^

[Wolfshade]

We all know why GW did the two wave, so that they could have two sales spikes. Now we are to have one massive one. Does this mean that we will end up having to wait longer between updates or are we going to have units/rules released via White Dwarf, thus making that a compulsory purchase again?

Also thanks for the definition of Shill

[Deadlift]

Could be why were waiting so long between codex releases because they want to have every unit within the new codex to have a model immediately or soon after its release. This was hinted at in the chaos codex rumours. This could also result in the edges between the loyalist marine dexs becoming even more blurred as the GW recycle marine units from one marine dex to the next to reduce having to release so many new kits in one go.

[Uncle Nutsy]

Maybe someone will set up a company that produces copies of GW AND Chapterhouse kits, so everyone in the Lounge can bury their differences and have a go at them instead? :)


don't tempt me :D