View Full Version : Question about Space Hulk
Lord Inquisitor
10-03-2009, 09:31 PM
When a Marine is in overwatch he shoots one shot at any geanstealer he sees perform an action. Tow questions actually. If you shoot at the same stealer more than once you kill it on 5s, I'm pretty sure that is right. This is the one I'm not to sure on. When your marine witnesses a stealer perform the action of attacking if he shoots and kills it does the close combat happen or does the stealer die before the combat?
Abominable Plague Marine
10-03-2009, 11:45 PM
Yes, you still get to sustain fire in overwatch.
Depends on the second one. I would say no he doesnt get to shoot if the Stealer attacked the SMT that wanted to shoot, first the Stealer has to complete the action of attacking and Im pretty sure if the SMT wanted to defend himself he would have to come off overwatch to do so. However if the Stealer attacked a different SMT but was in line of sight from a second SMT on overwatch, the second SMT would be able to shoot at the Stealer once the attack is resolved.
Gotthammer
10-04-2009, 06:10 AM
I've always taken the overwatch shot after the stealer performs an action. For instance Marine A is being covered by Marine B (who is on overwatch). A genestealer moves into an adjacent quare to attack A, and B takes a shot, but misses.
The stealer then attacks A with its next action. I'd roll the dice for the assault, and then the overwatch shot (that now needs a 5+ to kill), regardless of wether the stealer wins or not in case Marine B jams.
Abominable Plague Marine
10-04-2009, 06:28 AM
Well, I decided to check the rules cause this is something that is going to come up more and more often in games I believe.
Page 13 OVERWATCH ACTIONS, third paragraph, "If a Space Marine is attacked in close combat or performs any other action (other than clearing a jam) he immediately loses his overwatch status.
Lord Inquisitor
10-04-2009, 07:33 AM
Thank you that seems to clear it up.
Commander Dante
03-15-2010, 10:37 PM
When a Marine is in overwatch he shoots one shot at any geanstealer he sees perform an action. Tow questions actually. If you shoot at the same stealer more than once you kill it on 5s, I'm pretty sure that is right. This is the one I'm not to sure on. When your marine witnesses a stealer perform the action of attacking if he shoots and kills it does the close combat happen or does the stealer die before the combat?
In fact, Overwatch shots DO NOT get sustained fire bonuses at all.
"Marines do not get the sustained fire bonus for Overwatch fire." - Space Hulk Rules 1st. Ed. pg. 18, 19
Also, you cannot 'preemptively' kill a 'Stealer by a Marine in overwatch. The 'Stealer must take an action, & the Marine must have the 'Stealer in LOS at the end of the 'Stealer's action to receive a resulting overwatch shot. If a 'Stealer just took a swipe at at one Marine being covered by another Marine in Overwatch, the Close Combat result must be resolved before the Overwatch shot can take place. Each attack the 'Stealer makes will allow the Marine to keep taking overwatch shots in response (and to possibly use a Command Point action for each 'Stealer action witnessed by a Marine...provided you have them to use of course!)
Gotthammer
03-16-2010, 08:35 AM
In fact, Overwatch shots DO NOT get sustained fire bonuses at all.
"Marines do not get the sustained fire bonus for Overwatch fire." - Space Hulk Rules 1st. Ed. pg. 18, 19)
They do in 3rd ed.
Commander Dante
03-16-2010, 11:01 AM
They do in 3rd ed.
This is why 3rd Edition rules are mostly garbage, same as 2nd Ed. rules - ubergarbage.
Overwatch is described AS a reactionary shot covering a wide area, hence no fire bonuses make much more sense.
Otherwise, it is totally unbalanced play as well.
Gotthammer
03-16-2010, 11:13 AM
The sustained bonus caps out sooner (5+ max) to balance this out. It hardly overpowers shooting, it probably makes it weaker overall. Besides, a Marine should reasonably be expected to be able to improve his shooting even when taken by surprise.
Aside from that, Guard, Librarian powers and Sgts redrawing CPs, 3rd ed is identical to 1st ed + Deathwing.
Commander Dante
03-20-2010, 08:42 PM
The sustained bonus caps out sooner (5+ max) to balance this out. It hardly overpowers shooting, it probably makes it weaker overall. Besides, a Marine should reasonably be expected to be able to improve his shooting even when taken by surprise.
Aside from that, Guard, Librarian powers and Sgts redrawing CPs, 3rd ed is identical to 1st ed + Deathwing.
Overwatch isn't being 'taken by surprise' at all. In fact, it is a response in anticipation of movement. Why doesn't this lend itself to receiving a sustained bonus then? Unlike regular AP shooting, where the Marine's targeting narrows down on a 'stationary' target, in overwatch the marine must attempt to hit the 'Stealer as it streaks through his line of sight.
Now obviously, real life would have simultaneous movement, but still the 'Stealers do attempt to stalk, hide, lurk, and creep, and during these times they would more vulnerable to being shot as opposed to when they are tearing toward their prey. This to me represents the balance of the phases, and the sense of why O'watch requires a 'more precise' shot - a lower odd roll on the dice; becaues O'watch is a tensed up reaction covering a wider area, and the 'Stealer is presumably ducking and dodging as best it can as it runs up on a Marine.
And castrating the sustained fire was definitely weak. What's to say that a Marine that spends all his AP's and up to 6 CP's shooting the target couldn't pull off a better than 1 in 3 chance of hitting his target? Our smart weapons in THIS day can get those odds, much less thousands of years in the future where you'd expect the tech to be better.
Plus the rules for friendly fire are dishonorable for Marines in 3rd, they'd not attack each other to kill a genestealer or two. That's ridiculous.
Plus, 1st ed. is just much cooler with the releases for a few other races, and the variety of weapons, hybrids, etc.... All I see for 3rd is a bubble gummed version of a classic (with sweet minis and better board sections).
However, I have a full compliment of older termies and rogue trader 'stealer coven already, so i haven't yet even begun to paint the new ones. It was a ***** to get them out of the sprues without breaking anything, and get all the flash filed down. They are just resting in foam in the box, but I regularly use all the boardset.
That tileset program is pretty sweet too.....I have made a few pieces from the WD mags using high quality paper on matboard, and they come out even better than 1st edition quality. I can't wait to try making some of these 3rd ed. pieces of deathwing and genestealer (the 3 wides and 4 wides....)
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